Grippli reproduction

[avr]

Just a quick question. Does anyone know if they're more humanoid or more frog in this respect? Eggs etc.

[DeathlessOne]

I haven't seen any female Grippli with breasts (or a pouch like marsupials), soooo... I would assume they are an egg laying race.

[Morbid Eels]

I... had never even considered this.

I can't find much on it, nothing from paizo (that I can find), just 3rd party stuff that says eggs. But I am most curious if anyone else knows.

[nosig]

DeathlessOne wrote:

I haven't seen any female Grippli with breasts (or a pouch like marsupials), soooo... I would assume they are an egg laying race.

Most Mammals actually don't "display" breasts unless they are currently nursing young. Even amoung primates, humans are an exception with female humans "displaying" them as a secondary sex characteristic.... so it wouldn't be all that unusual for them to be more like whales or chimps.... or for that matter like frogs.

[Bob's Feet]

Morbid Eels wrote:

I... had never even considered this.

I can't find much on it, nothing from paizo (that I can find), just 3rd party stuff that says eggs. But I am most curious if anyone else knows.

This is something that Gripplis don't discuss...

[Grippli Avatar]

avr, are you hitting on me?

[Gropplo]

Ok.

[DeathlessOne]

nosig wrote:

Most Mammals actually don't "display" breasts unless they are currently nursing young. Even amoung primates, humans are an exception with female humans "displaying" them as a secondary sex characteristic.... so it wouldn't be all that unusual for them to be more like whales or chimps.... or for that matter like frogs.

Yes, I am aware of this. Perhaps a better word would have been nipples? But then again, so many things in our cultures are over sexualized ...

Oddly enough, this question popped up in a recent game our table was playing...

[avr]

Grippli Avatar wrote:

avr, are you hitting on me?

No, I haven't drunk enough for that yet. Though we humans - you know about half-orcs, half-elves, etc. I'm sure there's a half-grippli somewhere, somehow.

So there's 3rd party stuff which says eggs? That'll do.

[Redelia]

I don't know of any published answers on this, but if I had to make up my best guess on the spur of the moment, it would be the females lay eggs like frogs, but the two parents take turns guarding the eggs. And I would probably make in a much smaller number of eggs (perhaps around 3?) laid at one time by a female than happens with frogs.

[Swashbucklersdc]

There is a published answer, in the Bestiary 2 under grippli, just kind of hidden...

"Grippli hatchlings develop into adults in less than a year."

Hatchlings are definitely from eggs, =)

[GM SuperTumbler]

Frogs lay eggs, so it is easy enough to say that frog people lay eggs. I'd look at some of the fun ways frogs brood those eggs, though. There are frogs that swallow their eggs and keep them in their stomach, or an esophageal pouch. There are frogs that have eggs implanted in their back where they eventually hatch. There are some tadpoles that live in sandy soil instead of pools.

Since it doesn't really matter in a rules sense, you might as well make it something cool.

[nosig]

Many frogs actually have bypassed the tadpole stage and their eggs hatch into froglets...

frogs whose eggs are laid on land and develop directly into small froglets, bypassing the tadpole stage..

wall of text...sorry:

The typical life cycle of amphibians is a larval stage that lasts a few months, followed by a brief metamorphic period, then a long, multiyear life on land. The adults return to the water to court and ultimately lay eggs. However, there are many exceptions. Among frogs, those of the genus Pristimantis lay eggs on land, which develop directly into miniatures of adults with no tadpole stage. These are the most widespread and commonly encountered frogs in the New World tropics. In Africa the genus Arthroleptis (known as "squeakers") are all direct developers. There are also many other direct developing frogs on Madagascar and in southeast Asia. Among salamanders most species of the largest family, Plethodontidae, are direct developers. There are also direct developing caecilians.

A few species of frogs give birth to live young. Members of the African genus Nectophrynoides retain eggs in the oviduct and some nourish the young as they grow. These are born as miniatures of the adult. One Puerto Rican species of the genus Eleutherodactylus, now thought to be extinct (E. jasperi), also retained eggs in the oviduct and had live birth. Salamandra salamandra, S. atra and some related species either give birth to larvae or to completely metamorphosed juveniles.

Many species of caecilians give birth to living young, usually fully metamorphosed at birth. Live-bearing caecilians provide nutrition to their developing embryos. The young have well developed jaws and teeth which they use to scrape secretions, called "uterine milk", from the walls of the oviducts.

[Gropplo]

Gropplo sad Gropplo hatch...

[Scientific Scrutiny]

Well, we know there's a smizmar involved...

[Ambrosia Slaad]

Just be thankful grippli don't seem to have any suriname toad in their ancestry. (Do not Google if trypophobic.)

[quibblemuch]

Nature is gross.

If anyone needs me, I'll be crouched in my closet, jabbing a sharpened broom handle at anything that gets too close.

[Gropplo]

Gropplo sad Gropplo have google.

[Thaddeus Treeskipper]

Tad is glad that he knows what not to google. Tad is also glad he had two wonderful parents who would grin happily as they told him the story of his hatching.

[Gropplo]

Gropplo sad Gropplo parents leave Gropplo.

[PossibleCabbage]

The one I'm concerned about is the Cecaelia. The one on the cover of "Blood of the Seas" definitely is wearing sea-shells over where mammalian breasts would be, and who knows what's going on there under all those tentacles.

They're fine people, and one of the easiest aquatic races to play on land, but it's probably best not to delve too deep into the reproductive habits of any monstrous humanoids.

[doctor_wu]

Or a female grindylow

[Fromper]

And this came up again recently in one of my games. I was playing my grippli in a PFS game, and there was a nagaji PC, so it was joked that we reptiles need to stick together. But I said I'd guess gripplies are amphibians, not reptiles. And the discussion led to whether or not they have a tadpole stage.

[Sysryke]

Just for the sake of argument, what if it could be "either"? What if grippli, or other traditionally egg-laying demi-humans, had the option through various biological, alchemical, or arcane practices to choose whether to give live birth or lay eggs? There could be entire sub-cultures within these different races arguing for the advantages or moral imperatives of their chosen form of procreation. Definitely not an element for every game or table, but could make for some fun world immersion type encounters/sessions. I can just see it now; walk into the local tavern and see pamphlets on a side table "Choosing In Home Hatching: The Right Where to Show You Care!"

[VoodistMonk]

Not that I spend a lot of time thinking about imaginary frog people reproducing... but I think they lay one big egg that is close to 1/3 their size (not unlike the Kiwi bird)... it's still a soft, slimy frog egg... it's just big, and singular. From this egg hatches a near fully developed Grippli.

That is why we don't hear about Gripple tadpoles, or whatever.