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Aww man :D Would still have been cool to see how Starfinder version ended up like that. Ah well, i guess it'll be cool mystery in that alternate timeline
But yeah, hype is real, I can't wait to hear more about this one. Still hoping the doomsday clock thing happens in module at least, would be sad if it was just pathfinder society scenario thing.
It would be utterly infuriating to condemn the doomsday clock to a mere module unless it was a soooooper-module. Quite possibly the proverbial straw were it to be exclusively PFS-only.
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Wooh hoo! Can't wait!!!
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The integration of previous PCs from Rise of the Runelords and/or Shattered Star will be a key part of Return of the Runelords.
The hype boiler cannae take any more, captain! She's lit up like a Christmas tree, you've got to let her slow down!
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The integration of previous PCs from Rise of the Runelords and/or Shattered Star will be a key part of Return of the Runelords.The hype boiler cannae take any more, captain! She's lit up like a Christmas tree, you've got to let her slow down!
You have a fidgety eleven months ahead of you, I suspect. :)
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It would be utterly infuriating to condemn the doomsday clock to a mere module unless it was a soooooper-module. Quite possibly the proverbial straw were it to be exclusively PFS-only.Aww man :D Would still have been cool to see how Starfinder version ended up like that. Ah well, i guess it'll be cool mystery in that alternate timeline
But yeah, hype is real, I can't wait to hear more about this one. Still hoping the doomsday clock thing happens in module at least, would be sad if it was just pathfinder society scenario thing.
So ... you have predicted next years PFS theme. :)
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While I often love the weirder APs (Strange Aeons and Iron Gods are both pretty amazing in my book), the Runelords are some of the most developed setting elements in Pathfinder, and a return of James Jacobs to developing an AP, especially an AP rumored for years, is much appreciated.
Personally the Support Articles are some of the first things I read...A bit bummed there are less of them this time around, so kind of hoping this remains something just trotted out for special APs, like this one, where PC's really need to get to 20.
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Okay, so how do we abbreviate this AP title?
ReotR
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While I often love the weirder APs (Strange Aeons and Iron Gods are both pretty amazing in my book), the Runelords are some of the most developed setting elements in Pathfinder, and a return of James Jacobs to developing an AP, especially an AP rumored for years, is much appreciated.
Personally the Support Articles are some of the first things I read...A bit bummed there are less of them this time around, so kind of hoping this remains something just trotted out for special APs, like this one, where PC's really need to get to 20.
Also to be fair at this point Varisa is probably one of if not the most developed part of the setting so they have a lot more leeway when it comes to dropping the article count down.
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wait, so JR is supposed to happen after RotR Vol. 2?
That's unfortunate, really, because a lot of my long term planning for the next couple of years and the order in which the AP's on my table are played got really complicated right now.
I guess I'll wait and see. If the only thing needed in Sandpoint is a couple of NPCs that wouldn't be there if JR happend, that's something I can work around and substitute with other characters that were added in during our RotR Vol.1 and JR campaigns.
I just hope it's not more that I'd have to adjust
also, yeah, just as with SS, SS and S&S, having to APs with the acronym RotR is not helping
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R2otR?
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that fuels my Fant4stic PTSD
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I do have to say I'm in the same boat re: Jade Regent's timing. A whole bunch of GM's have already incorporated JR into their ongoing campaign timeline ... and it's a lot earlier than 'scripted' due to the "not-canon but effectively has been canon since the beginning" first year of publication = in-game year start year effect.
i.e. there'll be a gaggle of campaigns where Ameiko has been Empress of Minkai for several years come 4718.
There is hopefully a sidebar addressing this...
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Also to be fair at this point Varisia is probably one of if not the most developed part of the setting so they have a lot more leeway when it comes to dropping the article count down.While I often love the weirder APs (Strange Aeons and Iron Gods are both pretty amazing in my book), the Runelords are some of the most developed setting elements in Pathfinder, and a return of James Jacobs to developing an AP, especially an AP rumored for years, is much appreciated.
Personally the Support Articles are some of the first things I read...A bit bummed there are less of them this time around, so kind of hoping this remains something just trotted out for special APs, like this one, where PC's really need to get to 20.
On the upside for those who don't like Varisia this has a good chance of being the last Varisian AP for a long time. I like Varisia, don't get me wrong, but I'm thinking this will be the 'end for a while' when setting APs there after Return of the Runelords.
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Remember kids, acronyms don't save you time! You're just going to have to explain it anyway!!
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Remember kids, acronyms don't save you time! You're just going to have to explain it anyway!!
There's a hot blonde heading to the sauna over that-away, mop-boy. ;)
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Remember kids, acronyms don't save you time! You're just going to have to explain it anyway!!There's a hot blonde heading to the sauna over that-away, mop-boy. ;)
Remember kids! I already tried to give her my number!
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As for Mythic, sorry. The toxicity revolving around Wrath of the Righteous, another AP I'd been looking forward to doing for years, has pretty much convinced me to avoid using Mythic rules at all for players. It'll be in there for NPCs, as mentioned above, but that's it. Feel free to add Mythic stuff for your players if you want.
I very VERY much want folks to enjoy this as a (hopefully!) very fun and exciting conclusion to the Runelord story arc I've been working on for close to a decade, and I want people to be excited about the plot and the revelations and the encounters and the NPCs and all the rest WITHOUT having to have a huge black pall of downer looming over it all, which is what the negative feedback on Wrath of the Righteous did. No thanks.
The inter-runelord action will be very important to the plot, in any event.
I extremely saddened about your experience with Wrath James. I thoroughly enjoyed running the path and my players really enjoyed playing. We still use the mythic rules, although typically 1-4 tiers since the APs aren't specifically designed for mythic rules (we also tend to use them as a level rather than an add on). I see so much possibility in the mythic rules and hope they see a revisit - sooner rather than later. I for one will say well done on the mythic rules and thank you for your bravery - NEVER be put off because of such negativity, there's a reason people keep coming back to pathfinder.
This AP is extremely exciting news. I'll be playing RotR for a second time soon and this should dovetail nicely into the end of that (sadly we won't have played shattered star).
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As a GM who is just finishing running a party through Rise of the Runelords, my group have already started asking me to run Shattered Star next so we can finish in time for Return of the Runelords.
So hyped.
You and me both! I'm guessing Shattered Star will get a big bump in activity now.
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This is awesome and I'm really looking forward to seeing what you put together, James.
My group loved Rise of the Runelords. They're enjoying Curse of the Crimson Throne, so far (Chapter 1). I was thinking ahead to Shattered Star next. Looks like I was on the right "path"!
-Skeld
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This sounds amazing!
Varisia is by far and away my favorite part of Golarion!
Very much looking forward to this AP!
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Now let's see if I can find someone locally willing to run this when it comes out and also if I can find time to actually play at any point over the next few years with my going back to school.
I had such a blast playing through RotRL that I'd love to play through this one. :D
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That's one of things I'm looking at for my table, we've one PC (NE Psychic) from Geb who became a vampire (And got married to the LG Magus PC, it makes more sense in context) and another PC (NG Wizard) who's gone diet-runelord at the end of the RotRL. Both of them agreed that before they take over Varisia they were going to hunt down the remaning Runelords and explictily buddied up to the Pathfinders just incase they got wind of any runelords comeing back. Both are highly inteligent and have back up plans for the back up plans so I shudder to think about what gets accomplished in ten years and how to use that for RTotRL
It'll be an interesting one, that's for sure.
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So...since James is in this thread about the Runelords, I think I'll ask some questions. ^_^
• What questions can't you answer?
• What questions can you answer?
• Will we finally get to see Sorshen's sweet pad? Or at least see what's under Castle Korvosa?
• Will we finally know what Kusasfa's been up to?
• Will a certain expatriate from Cheliax be showing up? She'd certainly be thematically appropriate for that area. (And less contentious than poor Shelia...)
• What's going to become of Lorthact when the local evil wizard wakes up?
• Will we get to explore all of Hollow Mountain?
• The Peacock Spirit's really Xanderghul pulling a Razmir, isn't it?
• Will defeating the Runelords involve "activate the power dampeners," like what's been done with every other final boss in APs, or will we get to see them at full power?
• Will beating the Runelords involve any empyreal lords? If not, does the AP have any advice on what to do if the PCs work out a deal with one?
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Remember kids, acronyms don't save you time! You're just going to have to explain it anyway!!
RK, ADSYT! YJGtHtEiA!
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Remember kids, acronyms don't save you time! You're just going to have to explain it anyway!!RK, ADSYT! YJGtHtEiA!
Great, now you summoned Cthugha
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I dread to think what your poor GM would have to do to integrate your RotRL PC into the story...
While I'd love to play crazy-hooves over again from level 1, I'd need to alter things quite a bit since she ended up as a keketar by the end of RotRL.
Of course she technically has metaphorical siblings courtesy of the circumstances we used to even get her to Golarion in the first place, so there's plenty of ways I could approach it. Or I could just play a different character concept entirely. No idea. :)
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wait, so JR is supposed to happen after RotR Vol. 2?
That's unfortunate, really, because a lot of my long term planning for the next couple of years and the order in which the AP's on my table are played got really complicated right now.
It's really weird, too, in that JR in particular has a lot of canonical dates listed (for Ameiko, her family, other NPCs, etc). The other APs don't have quite so many definitive dates provided to the best of my recollection, but JR does.
Tricky issue.
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I was referring more to this:
The integration of previous PCs from Rise of the Runelords and/or Shattered Star will be a key part of Return of the Runelords.
Ooooh. I missed that. O.O
Yeah, my PC had a self-destructive crush on Runelord Alaznist, and briefly bailed on the other PCs to team up with some very evil, very bad people to try and wake her up. It ended poorly and she said she was sorry (without truly regretting a moment of it all) when she showed back up with a succubus in tow and benefiting from a profane gift. Wis 5.
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wait, so JR is supposed to happen after RotR Vol. 2?
That's unfortunate, really, because a lot of my long term planning for the next couple of years and the order in which the AP's on my table are played got really complicated right now.It's really weird, too, in that JR in particular has a lot of canonical dates listed (for Ameiko, her family, other NPCs, etc). The other APs don't have quite so many definitive dates provided to the best of my recollection, but JR does.
Tricky issue.
Unless I'm suffering from significant memory loss, JR didn't have any fixed dates in it at release. Did something change after JR was printed, or did I pull a derp?
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Unless I'm suffering from significant memory loss, JR didn't have any fixed dates in it at release. Did something change after JR was printed, or did I pull a derp?
There are quite a few in there- pertaining to, for instance, Ameiko's birthdate and significant events in her life (not to mention other NPCs in the caravan); dates about when the Kaijitsu family left Minkai and came to Varisia; etc.
They're scattered all about the text, but given the interrelated nature of the module due to NPC connections with other APs (notably RotR), they are not at all insignificant. Whereas other modules may have similar sorts of dates, but they are not so directly connected to other APS, and so they needn't necessarily imply causality.
ETA: Example, Ameiko born 4689 AR. 4706, after an adventuring incident, opens up Rusty Dragon in Sandpoint, which was "a few years" before the deaths of her father and half-brother.
There are lots of other dates that pretty effectively pin JR's timeline down, and which make any kind of post-dating it wrt RotR and sequels problematic without just making it a handwavey explanation that requires reworking JR.
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Unless I'm suffering from significant memory loss, JR didn't have any fixed dates in it at release. Did something change after JR was printed, or did I pull a derp?There are quite a few in there- pertaining to, for instance, Ameiko's birthdate and significant events in her life (not to mention other NPCs in the caravan); dates about when the Kaijitsu family left Minkai and came to Varisia; etc.
They're scattered all about the text, but given the interrelated nature of the module due to NPC connections with other APs (notably RotR), they are not at all insignificant. Whereas other modules may have similar sorts of dates, but they are not so directly connected to other APS, and so they needn't necessarily imply causality.
ETA: Example, Ameiko born 4689 AR. 4706, after an adventuring incident, opens up Rusty Dragon in Sandpoint, which was "a few years" before the deaths of her father and half-brother.
There are lots of other dates that pretty effectively pin JR's timeline down, and which make any kind of post-dating it wrt RotR and sequels problematic without just making it a handwavey explanation that requires reworking JR.
I'd remembered that the pre-AP timeline is cut and dry, that's not what I'm concerned about. It's the timeline when the AP starts. Ameiko opens the Rusty Dragon, what, the year prior to Rise of the Runelords, so no biggie.
What I don't recall - and can't confirm tonight - is an explicit statement of start date for Jade Regent in its own material asides from year of publication indicating 4711 A.R. as its start date, merely 4 years after Rise of the Runelords. Presuming about a year to make the trek and get Ameiko settled in on her silken throne pillows, she's the Empress of Minkai by roughly the summer of 4712 A.R., fully six years prior to Return of the Runelords.
I don't see this as trivial. Jade Regent was published starting in 2011. Seven years seems a wee bit on the late side of things to ret-con an AP's timeframe that far back ...
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Well RotR canonically happens five years after 4702 so 4707. Jade Regent stated Ameiko's birth year which would make her by 4707 18 year old meaning she was adventuring as teenager and become tavern over at really young age. It does make sense to me personally that Jade Regent happens around when shes 22 considering rest of hard to piece down timeline more than shes around in Sandpoint for decade xP
Like, I do know its not "canon" that AP's have start dates(well besides RotR since Karzoug's death by 4708 is canon and Reign of Winter since Baba Yaga returned in 4713), but that stance occasionally becomes annoying when campaign material implies there is actually timeline but its never told to gm.
For example, Crimson Throne mentions that History of Ashes is to assume to happen in Late Spring, this is only time AP mentions what time of year AP is supposed to take place in which annoys me since again, only first book mentions its assumed to take place over a month while rest of them just say "how much gm wants the part to take". Which annoys me since I have no clue what is reasonable time to suffer through a plague xD Like if I go just by adventuring locations, its really plausible that each books that doesn't involve traveling in wilderness takes place in a week.(Crimson Throne is also bit annoying in that Inner Sea Worldguide implies it takes place in 4708 since thats date when Ileosa becomes regent, but hardcover version adds dates up to 4711+ for the plague ship so it seems to assume it takes place in around 4716 aka hardcover release date :'D thats a long time to be doing what bbeg was doing because they were impatient)
(I guess thats better than 3.5 assuming there is one year time skip after hookmountain massacre and pcs return to Sandpoint by "goblin day" since that is absurd amount of time spent adventuring in Turtleback Ferry and rebuilding Fort Rannick)
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What I don't recall - and can't confirm tonight - is an explicit statement of start date for Jade Regent in its own material asides from year of publication indicating 4711 A.R. as its start date, merely 4 years after Rise of the Runelords. Presuming about a year to make the trek and get Ameiko settled in on her silken throne pillows, she's the Empress of Minkai by roughly the summer of 4712 A.R., fully six years prior to Return of the Runelords.
I'm not sure there is a set starting date for it, either- the closest I can find offhand is the note that it has been a few years since RotR, so that leaves some leeway, and that it takes place a few years after 4708 (when the emperor of Minkai was slain). I think your estimates seem about right here. I'm not sure how any of it can jibe with the earlier statement about time estimates between RotR, SS, and ReotR, with all of them somehow taking place prior to JR, though.
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What I don't recall - and can't confirm tonight - is an explicit statement of start date for Jade Regent in its own material asides from year of publication indicating 4711 A.R. as its start date, merely 4 years after Rise of the Runelords. Presuming about a year to make the trek and get Ameiko settled in on her silken throne pillows, she's the Empress of Minkai by roughly the summer of 4712 A.R., fully six years prior to Return of the Runelords.I'm not sure there is a set starting date for it, either- the closest I can find offhand is the note that it has been a few years since RotR, so that leaves some leeway, and that it takes place a few years after 4708 (when the emperor of Minkai was slain). I think your estimates seem about right here. I'm not sure how any of it can jibe with the earlier statement about time estimates between RotR, SS, and ReotR, with all of them somehow taking place prior to JR, though.
If year for emperor dying was really noted, I can buy Runelords taking 10 years to all of them to wake up, but I can't really buy Jade Regent taking 10 years to take over the throne :D
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Return of the Runelords takes place about a decade after Rise of the Runelords and about 5 years after Shattered Star, but before Jade Regent (although if you've run Jade Regent in your game, that won't really impact your Return of the Runelords game much at all).
That means that we'll be seeing how the events of those two previous APs have impacted Varisia. You will be visiting Magnimar, Riddleport, Korvosa, Sandpoint, and Kaer Maga during the AP in any event.
I'm resubbing for this AP for sure.
The Varisian "world tour" and Mike Shel having a hand in it is awesome news. Varisia and Ustalav are my favorite spots on Golarion. I have a soft spot for sequels too.
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Any idea how to integrate old pc's from previous games?
Sons and Daughters, or Brothers and Sisters. Unless you mean the NPC's from the APs.
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Indeed... pretty much ALL of the hidden secrets about the Peacock Spirit, including some I've kept secret since the start, will be revealed in this Adventure Path.
Oh my! Nice! I've become rather obsessed bit the Peacock Spirit and have collated every single scrap of information on it, and used it (enigmatically) in my games. Which is not much to go on... but there have been some tantalising clues.
The 'god of mind, body and soul' it's said. But seemingly the god of many possibilities, and of esoteric knowledge. Of asking questions that shouldn't be asked, and hearing answers that are almost impossible to grasp? Perhaps the god of multiple truths, even of paradoxes? Of the unknowable? Cats are to Schrodinger as The Peacock Spirit is to divine knowledge.
Vraxeris seemed to come to those conclusions during his descent into madness. Or perhaps it was just his mind failing?
The monks of the Therassic Spire of Kaer Maga will be very pleased! The Revelation Quill will be consulted many times in the upcoming year looking for clues and predictions. Pharasma's prophets, lost as they are since Aroden's death, may in their madness utter predictions that have meaning. Perhaps there is some connection between the lost god and Pharasma, and even Groetus? Some scholars have suggested there might be.
Looking forward to the AP!
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Anyhoo, gotta say I'm hyped about 1-20 thing :D As said before, Varisia and Thassilon are detailed in a lot of books especially when compared to other countries so it makes sense that this ap doesn't need as much bonus articles to detail Thassilon and Varisia.
Hearing about the "old pcs/iconics/npc" thing makes me hope that if AP provides call back opportunities to RotR & Shattered Star that they don't make too many assumptions about what players did. Like, I think its okay to assume that bad guys who fought to the death died, but like, Gogmurt and Orik have pretty good chance of surviving I'd say, so if they DID survive RotR it might be fun to bring them back for cameo so I hope AP's plot for npcs and such don't rely too much on them being dead or whatever.
Same way I hope it doesn't do assumptions about artifacts or locations :D Like in my RotR after killing Karzoug(and breaking soul lens) they destroyed anima focus(gave them one mythic tier for that :D), so if Return of the Runelord assumes anima focus is being used for some other plot that will give me headache. Same way about everpool in Crimson Throne, continuing campaign with trying to destroy it might be cool plot hook, so if its needed in Sorshen's or whoever's plan in Return, well, that would certainly incentive gm to avoid that plot hook or kick themselves for using it. I know I'm currently planning to use that plot hook as part of continuing the campaign.
But yeah, same can be applied for anything really, if players exorcised Skinsaw Murders' mansion it'll be really awkward if it turns out that by Return the evil influence of mansion has spread farther on the surrounding area or if PCs exposed Scarnetti family's arsonist scam during stonegiant ride if they are doing same thing in return(and Jubryal hasn't gotten problems with Sheriff over it).
Anyway, excited to see if AP details what has happened in Varisia after decade regarding Runeforge/Jorgenfist/Xin-Shalast being discovered. Thats a lot of time for expedition teams detailed in Lost Cities of Golarion make discoveries :D
(have to say though, I think I would have preferred Second Darkess to get remaked before this ap since I kind of want to run original three varisian aps before this one, but I'm not planning to run 3.5 version or convert it to pathfinder myself so I guess I just have to skip that one and miss references to it... And possibly cause timeparadoxes if I run it after the Return)
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I have to say though, I think I would have preferred Second Darkess to get remaked before this ap since I kind of want to run original three varisian aps before this one, but I'm not planning to run 3.5 version or convert it to pathfinder myself so I guess I just have to skip that one and miss references to it... And possibly cause timeparadoxes if I run it after the Return.
Don't hold you breath for a Second Darkness compilation.
At one of this year's Paizocon seminars (that I listened to on the Know Direction podcast), James Jacobs was asked about the possibility of a Second Darkness compilation.
He said something to the effect that SD is the one AP that he'd like to revise the most, mainly due to some of the writers not getting elves' motivations, behavior, and attitudes correct. As written, the elves are much bigger jerks than they were supposed to be: They're supposed to be friendly and accepting. He also said he wanted to smooth over the transition from PCs being city-based rogues to being saviors of the world.
However, one of the main things they take into account before they will do a compilation is whether or not the AP itself has sold out. And Second Darkness still has thousands of copies of all volumes still sitting in the warehouse unsold.
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I think I would have preferred Second Darkess to get remaked before this ap since I kind of want to run original three varisian aps before this one
+1
somehow SD turned into the unwanted stepchild of the Varisian APs, which is sad really, because it has some of the most spectatcular set pieces I've ever read and the plot was really ambitious.
A PF HC version of SD would be a dream come true, but until then, I still have about three years to figure out the best way to convert my 3.5 books