Return of the Runelords


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James Jacobs wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:
More that it will be very important to account for what is keeping 8-10 or so 18th+ level characters from not participating in this campaign when by all rights they probably should be.
This is going to be a SIGNIFICANT plot element, and one that is also something of a spoiler, so I'm not going to be saying anything more about it other than to confirm that the role of those prior 17th level or 18th level PCs and how they interact with the story of Return of the Runelords is very very very "load bearing."

Super stoked to see what happens here. On the one hand, it'd be awesome if the old PCs are the quest givers - "mayor of Sandpoint" is Kendra Deverin unless a PC became the mayor, in which case it's them. On the other, it could be problematic to have the adventure take place in a region rife with heroes - Runelords, Crimson Throne, Second Darkness, and Shattered Star will all have happened before Return does. That's 16-24 high level adventurers with PC wealth just waiting around to challenge the Runelords.

As a friend put it, the remaining Runelords would likely take no chances to make the same mistakes as their predecessors. "Hmmmph, the heroes of this age have killed the Claimer? Impressive...and a pity. I should have liked to have seen his bejeweled head upon a pike. Wait, the also killed Krune? And...they killed XIN?!? I will take no chances. DIVINERS! Find out everything you can about the heroes of the last decade. I want this in the next hour, or the next entrails you read will be your own!"

You're an impossibly powerful wizard that managed to survive an extinction level event. Why would you let the people that stopped your contemporaries have a chance to stop you? And in a world where true resurrection exists, capturing them an imprisoning them somewhere seems to be the best possible solution - not to mention that it gives the players a chance to free their old characters!


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Misroi wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:
More that it will be very important to account for what is keeping 8-10 or so 18th+ level characters from not participating in this campaign when by all rights they probably should be.
This is going to be a SIGNIFICANT plot element, and one that is also something of a spoiler, so I'm not going to be saying anything more about it other than to confirm that the role of those prior 17th level or 18th level PCs and how they interact with the story of Return of the Runelords is very very very "load bearing."

Super stoked to see what happens here. On the one hand, it'd be awesome if the old PCs are the quest givers - "mayor of Sandpoint" is Kendra Deverin unless a PC became the mayor, in which case it's them. On the other, it could be problematic to have the adventure take place in a region rife with heroes - Runelords, Crimson Throne, Second Darkness, and Shattered Star will all have happened before Return does. That's 16-24 high level adventurers with PC wealth just waiting around to challenge the Runelords.

As a friend put it, the remaining Runelords would likely take no chances to make the same mistakes as their predecessors. "Hmmmph, the heroes of this age have killed the Claimer? Impressive...and a pity. I should have liked to have seen his bejeweled head upon a pike. Wait, the also killed Krune? And...they killed XIN?!? I will take no chances. DIVINERS! Find out everything you can about the heroes of the last decade. I want this in the next hour, or the next entrails you read will be your own!"

You're an impossibly powerful wizard that managed to survive an extinction level event. Why would you let the people that stopped your contemporaries have a chance to stop you? And in a world where true resurrection exists, capturing them an imprisoning them somewhere seems to be the best possible solution - not to mention that it gives the players a chance to free their old characters!

Aye, this will be awesome to see the development. The more I think about it, the simplest solution might well be for Xanderghul and Sorshen to send Our Previous Heroes after a Red Herring.

Sorshen would clear out the CotCT heroes of Korvosa asap, perhaps pulling the "mysterious old man in your favorite watering hole gives you a quest far to the east on a different continent" bit. Maybe she sends this group off to go fetch the assorted 'Sin Swords'. They'll be gone for a long, long time even accounting for wind walk and the like.

The heroes of Second Darkness wind up in Kyonin with a fat paycheck dangling in front of their noses for basically sitting around on their butts and helping out now and then with keeping the Tanglebriar in check, so I don't expect they will be a significant factor unless they chose to return to smelly ol' Riddleport. ;)

Should the Red Herring Express fail to lure away Our Previous Heroes, temporal stasis and imprisonment works wonders ... although one would then imply a fight occurred. We know how persnickety high-level PCs are about being subdued in such a fashion. :P

This is going to be absolutely fantastic to see how it unfolds.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Only Rise of the Runelords and Shattered Star have direct ties in to Return of the Runelords. Any PCs who played in any other AP (including Crimson Throne and Second Darkness) are not assumed to have roles... but you as the GM get to determine what prior PCs if any from any previously-run campaign you did get to play the background roles in Return of the Runelords, in any event, so there'll be some flexibility there.

Grand Lodge

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James Jacobs wrote:
Only Rise of the Runelords and Second Darkness have direct ties in to Return of the Runelords. Any PCs who played in any other AP (including Crimson Throne and Second Darkness) are not assumed to have roles... but you as the GM get to determine what prior PCs if any from any previously-run campaign you did get to play the background roles in Return of the Runelords, in any event, so there'll be some flexibility there.

And Shattered Star I'd assume considering its part 2 of the trilogy?

Silver Crusade

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Was that first Darkness supposed to be Shattered Star?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Jurassic Pratt wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Only Rise of the Runelords and Second Darkness have direct ties in to Return of the Runelords. Any PCs who played in any other AP (including Crimson Throne and Second Darkness) are not assumed to have roles... but you as the GM get to determine what prior PCs if any from any previously-run campaign you did get to play the background roles in Return of the Runelords, in any event, so there'll be some flexibility there.
And Shattered Star I'd assume considering its part 2 of the trilogy?

Oops. I misspoke. Shoulda meant Shattered Star at the first, not Second Darkness. I'll edit my original post.


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James Jacobs wrote:
Jurassic Pratt wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Only Rise of the Runelords and Second Darkness have direct ties in to Return of the Runelords. Any PCs who played in any other AP (including Crimson Throne and Second Darkness) are not assumed to have roles... but you as the GM get to determine what prior PCs if any from any previously-run campaign you did get to play the background roles in Return of the Runelords, in any event, so there'll be some flexibility there.
And Shattered Star I'd assume considering its part 2 of the trilogy?
Oops. I misspoke. Shoulda meant Shattered Star at the first, not Second Darkness. I'll edit my original post.

Well, look on the bright side Directosaur, this AP assumes that a giant meteorite hasn't crashed into Golarion and caused 1000 years of darkness, at least not recently.

Shadow Lodge

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James Jacobs wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:
More that it will be very important to account for what is keeping 8-10 or so 18th+ level characters from not participating in this campaign when by all rights they probably should be.
This is going to be a SIGNIFICANT plot element, and one that is also something of a spoiler, so I'm not going to be saying anything more about it other than to confirm that the role of those prior 17th level or 18th level PCs and how they interact with the story of Return of the Runelords is very very very "load bearing."

Re:otR's PCs are going to be rescuing and/or fighting captured and/or subverted advanced versions of the Iconics that appeared in RotRL and SS (with the option for groups to replace them with ex-PCs from those paths), aren't they?

N.B. I don't expect an answer. Just posting my guess for the record in case I turn out to be right.

Sovereign Court

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I reckon the old PCs will be fighting an army of Kaiju and Rune Giants while the PCs do some small mission which turns out to be vitally important.


Or... and I'm just throwing this out there...

... since, you know, we are facing the Runelord of Pride...

...

One guess that will likely change tomorrow:

... simulacra!

:D

Liberty's Edge

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The still extant Runelords, especially our usual suspects X and S, make excellent potential culprits for manipulating the events that led to the start of RotRl1 and ShSt

In which case they are in a perfect position for manipulating or eliminating the previous PC heroes, having followed them from their very beginning and knowing the old PCs' tactics, resources and way of thinking inside out

Liberty's Edge

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Just realized that what slightly irks me about ReotRl happening before Jade Regent is that IIRC in JR the end results of RotRl1 were supposed to have happened and were in fact a prime reason why all the able adventurers in the area had gone to that recently rediscovered City of Gold and were currently unavailable, leaving only the poor 1st level PCs available to deal with Sandpoint's latest problem

It seems strange that the results of RotRl1 would be so important for the starting circumstances of JR while those of ReotRl would not. Even though the latter are likely even more Golarion-shattering

Why is it so important to have ReotRl start BEFORE JR ? What would be missing if it started after JR ?

Dark Archive

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BTW, while Crimson Throne isn't directly connected to Return, is it still indirectly connected? Like is reason why Sorshen is waking up due to BBEG causing bloodshed at Grand Mastaba and used the everpool? I think there was some mentioning over blood siphoning and that more everpool is used more it quickens Sorshen, but can't remember if thats wrong

^I think idea was just to have NPCs who would have left Sandpoint to go to Tian Xia have make cameos.


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The Raven Black wrote:

One thing I disliked about the 1st WOD's Gehenna was that after telling us that one antediluvian waking up early was almost an extinction event, they had to find ways of explaining why the rising of all the others in the maturity of their power could be somewhat countered by PCs

{. . .}

Now . . . what have we learned today? It's a BAD idea to wake antediluvians early. Don't you realize how cranky they get when you do that?


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CorvusMask wrote:
BTW, while Crimson Throne isn't directly connected to Return, is it still indirectly connected? Like is reason why Sorshen is waking up due to BBEG causing bloodshed at Grand Mastaba and used the everpool? I think there was some mentioning over blood siphoning and that more everpool is used more it quickens Sorshen, but can't remember if thats wrong

It may not be directly connected to Return of the Runelords, but it is directly connected to Rise of the Runelords, as Shattered Star features the Gray Maidens who are explicitly tied to CotCT.

RotR => SS <= CotCT


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The Raven Black wrote:
Why is it so important to have ReotRl start BEFORE JR ? What would be missing if it started after JR ?

I suspect he won't be able to answer that without spoiling something. Add my support to this question though. The whole "start date" thing may not have been "official", but my group has been using it since the beginning. This may throw some things about Jade Regent off for us, but we'll wait and see what Paizo presents.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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The Raven Black wrote:

Just realized that what slightly irks me about ReotRl happening before Jade Regent is that IIRC in JR the end results of RotRl1 were supposed to have happened and were in fact a prime reason why all the able adventurers in the area had gone to that recently rediscovered City of Gold and were currently unavailable, leaving only the poor 1st level PCs available to deal with Sandpoint's latest problem

It seems strange that the results of RotRl1 would be so important for the starting circumstances of JR while those of ReotRl would not. Even though the latter are likely even more Golarion-shattering

Why is it so important to have ReotRl start BEFORE JR ? What would be missing if it started after JR ?

It all boils down to IF there's a significant scene that takes place in Sandpoint (there likely will be) and IF there's a way to include a cameo from Ameiko or Shalelu (there might not be, but I won't know for a few months). If the Ameiko/Shalelo cameo isn't something that ends up in the adventure, then when Jade Regent takes place as regards the events of Return of the Runelords becomes irrelevant—it could be either. Folks are kind of making a mountain out of a molelhill on this topic, frankly...

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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CorvusMask wrote:

BTW, while Crimson Throne isn't directly connected to Return, is it still indirectly connected? Like is reason why Sorshen is waking up due to BBEG causing bloodshed at Grand Mastaba and used the everpool? I think there was some mentioning over blood siphoning and that more everpool is used more it quickens Sorshen, but can't remember if thats wrong

^I think idea was just to have NPCs who would have left Sandpoint to go to Tian Xia have make cameos.

Yes, Crimson Throne's events are considered to have taken place, but the events of that AP do not directly support any plot lines in Return of the Runelords.


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James Jacobs wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

Just realized that what slightly irks me about ReotRl happening before Jade Regent is that IIRC in JR the end results of RotRl1 were supposed to have happened and were in fact a prime reason why all the able adventurers in the area had gone to that recently rediscovered City of Gold and were currently unavailable, leaving only the poor 1st level PCs available to deal with Sandpoint's latest problem

It seems strange that the results of RotRl1 would be so important for the starting circumstances of JR while those of ReotRl would not. Even though the latter are likely even more Golarion-shattering

Why is it so important to have ReotRl start BEFORE JR ? What would be missing if it started after JR ?

It all boils down to IF there's a significant scene that takes place in Sandpoint (there likely will be) and IF there's a way to include a cameo from Ameiko or Shalelu (there might not be, but I won't know for a few months). If the Ameiko/Shalelo cameo isn't something that ends up in the adventure, then when Jade Regent takes place as regards the events of Return of the Runelords becomes irrelevant—it could be either. Folks are kind of making a mountain out of a molelhill on this topic, frankly...

I have to agree, Mr. Jacobs. I know that if either Ameiko or Shalelu show up in Return, my group would have to simply fill those roles with someone else, because Ameiko is now busy elsewhere and Shalelu is dead. I don't see why this is a big deal, however, and we probably shouldn't be making it such. Part of running our Golarion is fitting each subsequent story into our Golarion. Quite honestly, it's no different than how we ran the Realms back when, or any of our homebrew worlds.

Let's take a breath and not hyperventilate over something that's not so difficult to deal with in the long run. It's a year out, and there's a ton we don't know!


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Sub-Creator wrote:

I have to agree, Mr. Jacobs. I know that if either Ameiko or Shalelu show up in Return, my group would have to simply fill those roles with someone else, because Ameiko is now busy elsewhere and Shalelu is dead. I don't see why this is a big deal, however, and we probably shouldn't be making it such. Part of running our Golarion is fitting each subsequent story into our Golarion. Quite honestly, it's no different than how we ran the Realms back when, or any of our homebrew worlds.

Let's take a breath and not hyperventilate over something that's not so difficult to deal with in the long run. It's a year out, and there's a ton we don't know!

Fun fact: In my group, Shalelu wasn't in Jade Regent... 'cause she'd gotten involved with the party ranger and was basically hanging out in Xin-Shalast with him after RotR exploring, fighting monsters, having a grand old time.

So "Selvyn" (elf ranger who hates goblins... this one's a male!) being gone to Minkai is of no significance whatsoever!

As for Ameiko... the younger half-sister I gave her in Jade Regent will have to do for filling her potentially present shoes.

Hardly the end of the world.

Dark Archive

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I don't think anyone was panicking or being angry about it, I think people were being mildly confused .-.


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I am so incredibly excited for this AP!!

Varisia is my favorite part of Golarion.

I ran "Rise of the Runelords" back in 2011-3, although we only got through Hook Mountain Massacre before that gaming group broke up. (Three players moved out of town, and a fourth had a baby and consequently no longer had time for gaming.)

The Runelords/Thassilon have played very heavily into my subsequent homebrew campaigns, "Champions of Old Korvosa" (which involved a splinter cult of Urgathoa who unearthed lost artifact associated with Runelord Zutha) and "DungeonFinder" (admittedly a terrible name), my current sandbox Dungeon World campaign, set in Varisia.

Liberty's Edge

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Sub-Creator wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

Just realized that what slightly irks me about ReotRl happening before Jade Regent is that IIRC in JR the end results of RotRl1 were supposed to have happened and were in fact a prime reason why all the able adventurers in the area had gone to that recently rediscovered City of Gold and were currently unavailable, leaving only the poor 1st level PCs available to deal with Sandpoint's latest problem

It seems strange that the results of RotRl1 would be so important for the starting circumstances of JR while those of ReotRl would not. Even though the latter are likely even more Golarion-shattering

Why is it so important to have ReotRl start BEFORE JR ? What would be missing if it started after JR ?

It all boils down to IF there's a significant scene that takes place in Sandpoint (there likely will be) and IF there's a way to include a cameo from Ameiko or Shalelu (there might not be, but I won't know for a few months). If the Ameiko/Shalelo cameo isn't something that ends up in the adventure, then when Jade Regent takes place as regards the events of Return of the Runelords becomes irrelevant—it could be either. Folks are kind of making a mountain out of a molelhill on this topic, frankly...

I have to agree, Mr. Jacobs. I know that if either Ameiko or Shalelu show up in Return, my group would have to simply fill those roles with someone else, because Ameiko is now busy elsewhere and Shalelu is dead. I don't see why this is a big deal, however, and we probably shouldn't be making it such. Part of running our Golarion is fitting each subsequent story into our Golarion. Quite honestly, it's no different than how we ran the Realms back when, or any of our homebrew worlds.

Let's take a breath and not hyperventilate over something that's not so difficult to deal with in the long run. It's a year out, and there's a ton we don't know!

Actually, it is because we know so very little that I was grasping at straws trying to get an inkling of why this order of APs was so important and thus get some clue about the plot ;-)

That said, I could not help but note that the background of Ameiko in JR is very slightly not in synch with the APs' order :

"The last few years have been hard on Ameiko, with the death of both her father and her half-brother during a series of violent goblin attacks on Sandpoint." does not sound like something happening 10 years ago

That said, I wish to add my heartfelt enormous thanks for the incredible work done by M. Jacobs, both in the products he gives us and in his presence on the boards. I am really sad that the latter is declining and I hope it will rise again, as I for one appreciate it very much

Dark Archive

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James Jacobs wrote:
That means that we'll be seeing how the events of those two previous APs have impacted Varisia. You will be visiting Magnimar, Riddleport, Korvosa, Sandpoint, and Kaer Maga during the AP in any event.

Who's minding the Gold Goblin?!

Is that your one goblin mention in your key word search James?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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baron arem heshvaun wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
That means that we'll be seeing how the events of those two previous APs have impacted Varisia. You will be visiting Magnimar, Riddleport, Korvosa, Sandpoint, and Kaer Maga during the AP in any event.

Who's minding the Gold Goblin?!

Is that your one goblin mention in your key word search James?

No. The Gold Goblin has no role in Return of the Runelords.

The one goblin mention in the outline is in a sample stat block in the languages line of said stat block among several languages spoken by the sample stat block.

Liberty's Edge

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James Jacobs wrote:
baron arem heshvaun wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
That means that we'll be seeing how the events of those two previous APs have impacted Varisia. You will be visiting Magnimar, Riddleport, Korvosa, Sandpoint, and Kaer Maga during the AP in any event.

Who's minding the Gold Goblin?!

Is that your one goblin mention in your key word search James?

No. The Gold Goblin has no role in Return of the Runelords.

The one goblin mention in the outline is in a sample stat block in the languages line of said stat block among several languages spoken by the sample stat block.

Well, there is indeed one usual NPC suspect who knows the Goblin language :-)

Dark Archive

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Mr. Jacobs, i wonder if we'll finally get a "Varisia" Campaign Setting around the time this AP comes out?
Or does it make more sense to wait until after all the issues have come out to incorporate all the new information?


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^We do have Varisia, Birthplace of Legends from a long time ago. Or is this too long ago to count?

Dark Archive

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It's only a Player Companion (although it's one of the best together with People of the River imo) and more aimed at PCs than GMs.
And 32 pages are not enough to cover everything relevant in Golarions most fleshed-out land. ;-)


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Let's be honest, with all of the texture and depth Varisia has gotten... at this stage you'd need a hardcover to do it up proper. ;)

The Exchange

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Yep, my old (still 3.5) campaign setting book has around 250 pages so I think 512 pages might just (barely) be enough to do Varisia justice.

I'm only half-kidding, by the way. :D

edit: or better yet, you license that book out to Frog God Games, so that they can make a 1000 pages hardcover Blight-style.

still only half-kidding ^^

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Marco Massoudi wrote:

Mr. Jacobs, i wonder if we'll finally get a "Varisia" Campaign Setting around the time this AP comes out?

Or does it make more sense to wait until after all the issues have come out to incorporate all the new information?

We don't announce products in these threads, first of all. Second of all, a Varisia setting book is something I've wanted to do do for a while, but not something I've been interested in letting anyone else write, and I've not had the time or energy to write it, and there's been plenty of other books to publish, so...

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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And for what it's worth, I could fill a book of pretty much any size with content for Varisia.

Silver Crusade

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*drools*

Dark Archive

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Old school all the way I vote for a boxed set! Not that my vote matters. I'm also glad to hear that the Creative Director has plenty of ideas and not enough time, much better then the other way around.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32

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James Jacobs wrote:
And for what it's worth, I could fill a book of pretty much any size with content for Varisia.

TEASE!


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What adventure was Krune in? Was that a Pathfinder Society Scenario?

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

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PannicAtack wrote:
What adventure was Krune in? Was that a Pathfinder Society Scenario?

Krune's return played prominently throughout the Pathfinder Society's "Year of the Risen Rune" and he personally appeared in

Spoiler:
Pathfinder Society Scenario 4-26: The Waking Rune


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Davor Firetusk wrote:
Old school all the way I vote for a boxed set! Not that my vote matters. I'm also glad to hear that the Creative Director has plenty of ideas and not enough time, much better then the other way around.

Whyyyyyyyy must they be so financially unsupportable?

*Builds a nest out of his various boxed sets.*


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Something I just thought of: what's to stop Sorshen from have an interplanetary teleport handy for just in case she'd need to start over elsewhere?


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AlgaeNymph wrote:
Something I just thought of: what's to stop Sorshen from have an interplanetary teleport handy for just in case she'd need to start over elsewhere?

The runelords don't necessarily know all of the spells in the game. They really shouldn't to be fair. interplanetary teleport may have been only an Elf thing for the runelords before the fall of Thassilon.

Mostly, hubris, and other planets' minions may not appeal to her aesthetics.


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Any scenario featuring 20th level casters needs to have a reason why they fight to the death and can be defeated instead of escaping via teleportation, rising via clones, was actually using astral projection and so was not killed etc.
Rise of the Runelords did it well as Karzoug was still constrained by his method of escaping Armageddon which also pushed my players to kill him fast and not give him time to achieve a position when he could escape

The Exchange

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James Jacobs wrote:
And for what it's worth, I could fill a book of pretty much any size with content for Varisia.

I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't, It's more that I don't expect Paizo to do such a (Blight-like) book because it would most probably take a big amount of ressources away from your other publications.

But if you did, I'd be willing to pay an insane amount of money on that.


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The Mad Comrade wrote:
AlgaeNymph wrote:
Something I just thought of: what's to stop Sorshen from have an interplanetary teleport handy for just in case she'd need to start over elsewhere?

The runelords don't necessarily know all of the spells in the game. They really shouldn't to be fair. interplanetary teleport may have been only an Elf thing for the runelords before the fall of Thassilon.

Mostly, hubris, and other planets' minions may not appeal to her aesthetics.

I wouldn't be so sure. Earth looks like pretty good feeding grounds for any of the Runelords . . . .


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UnArcaneElection wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:
AlgaeNymph wrote:
Something I just thought of: what's to stop Sorshen from have an interplanetary teleport handy for just in case she'd need to start over elsewhere?

The runelords don't necessarily know all of the spells in the game. They really shouldn't to be fair. interplanetary teleport may have been only an Elf thing for the runelords before the fall of Thassilon.

Mostly, hubris, and other planets' minions may not appeal to her aesthetics.

I wouldn't be so sure. Earth looks like pretty good feeding grounds for any of the Runelords . . . .

Heh, true. Maybe Xanderghul bopped to Earth in the late 17th or early 18th century, was unimpressed and came back. ;)

Sovereign Court

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The Mad Comrade wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:
AlgaeNymph wrote:
Something I just thought of: what's to stop Sorshen from have an interplanetary teleport handy for just in case she'd need to start over elsewhere?

The runelords don't necessarily know all of the spells in the game. They really shouldn't to be fair. interplanetary teleport may have been only an Elf thing for the runelords before the fall of Thassilon.

Mostly, hubris, and other planets' minions may not appeal to her aesthetics.

I wouldn't be so sure. Earth looks like pretty good feeding grounds for any of the Runelords . . . .

Heh, true. Maybe Xanderghul bopped to Earth in the late 17th or early 18th century, was unimpressed and came back. ;)

Xandergulliver's Travels...


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These Pesky Runelords..they had their time. They should stay down. Give some other dictator their time in the sun.


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Black Dougal wrote:
These Pesky Runelords..they had their time. They should stay down. Give some other dictator their time in the sun.

As with most malevolent dictators, you gotta put 'em down before they give up their throne. ;)

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Marco Massoudi wrote:

It's only a Player Companion (although it's one of the best together with People of the River imo) and more aimed at PCs than GMs.

And 32 pages are not enough to cover everything relevant in Golarions most fleshed-out land. ;-)

I was bummed that the Varisia pdf doesn't have the center map as all one page in its own pdf, like People of the River. The only real flaw in that product, IMO. The ribbon art of the big three cities was a nice touch.


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JohnHawkins wrote:

Any scenario featuring 20th level casters needs to have a reason why they fight to the death and can be defeated instead of escaping via teleportation, rising via clones, was actually using astral projection and so was not killed etc.

Rise of the Runelords did it well as Karzoug was still constrained by his method of escaping Armageddon which also pushed my players to kill him fast and not give him time to achieve a position when he could escape

Sorshen can't come back as a clone cause one of my players walked off with her clone body. Best bit of shattered star.

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