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Ho Pathfinders!
So I just joined in a campaign that is starting at level 16. 3 game sessions in, my Druid headbutted a Sphere of Annihilation...
I wasn't planning on having to make ANOTHER level 16 character so I'm a little tapped on ideas, so I turn to the masses for advice.
Party makeup consists of:
2-hander Paladin "Boss Killer"
2 weapon sword/shield Fighter "cuisinart"
Rogue who does a little damage, but just invalidates any trap in the dungeon
Wizard/Cleric Mystic Theurge with a binder full of spells that aren't 8th level
Witch who focuses on Hexes and debuffs
And a Dragonblooded Sorceress who isn't great at blowing stuff up, but has a lot of fun doing so.
Suggestions?
Ho Pathfinders!
So I just joined in a campaign that is starting at level 16. 3 game sessions in, my Druid headbutted a Sphere of Annihilation...
I wasn't planning on having to make ANOTHER level 16 character so I'm a little tapped on ideas, so I turn to the masses for advice.
Party makeup consists of:
2-hander Paladin "Boss Killer"
2 weapon sword/shield Fighter "cuisinart"
Rogue who does a little damage, but just invalidates any trap in the dungeon
Wizard/Cleric Mystic Theurge with a binder full of spells that aren't 8th level
Witch who focuses on Hexes and debuffs
And a Dragonblooded Sorceress who isn't great at blowing stuff up, but has a lot of fun doing so.
Suggestions?
Spirit Guide Nature Oracle. Just stay alive till Level 20 and become a God. Should not be hard to stay alive either as you have a ton of options.
Hmmm looking for a seventh party member xD
Well you have 3 melee people from the looks of things so a bard can't really be a bad idea although they aren't really taking advantage of the rare opportunity to be level 16. I wouldn't suggest an Arcane full caster given you seem to have 2 and a half already.
So might I suggest a dragon mystery oracle?
At level 15 you should be able to turn into a dragon for 15 hours per day. Which is fairly kewl, you should also have some goodies like at will wings and an aura of fear.
I also think a spiritualist using the anger phantom with team work feats, outflank and paired opportunist and both using the Cornugon Smash + hurtful combo would be interesting but takes a long time to come online. Also you don't have any psychic magic so that might be fun.
Hmmm looking for a seventh party member xD
Well you have 3 melee people from the looks of things so a bard can't really be a bad idea although they aren't really taking advantage of the rare opportunity to be level 16. I wouldn't suggest an Arcane full caster given you seem to have 2 and a half already.
So might I suggest a dragon mystery oracle?
At level 15 you should be able to turn into a dragon for 15 hours per day. Which is fairly kewl, you should also have some goodies like at will wings and an aura of fear.
I do like the Dragon Mystery. The Dragon Magic Revelation would be SWEET at Level 19 can give you 2 Limited Wish SLAs a Day. SLAs don't need Material COmponites and having Limited wish 2/day on tap seems really strong. Especially paired up with Miracle as your 9th level spell. You would have tons of options at that point to solve most your problems.
I know right
Dragon oracles, much better for being a flighty dragon guy than sorcs in my opinion.
Phantom Thief Rogue, do ALL of the skills better than EVERYONE.
I know right
Dragon oracles, much better for being a flighty dragon guy than sorcs in my opinion.
I feel at end game they definitely do. I love all things dragons. My favorite Fantasy creature. Almost every time I sit to think of a new character dragon theme always jumps to my mind first before I have to beat it back and think harder.
Phantom Thief Rogue, do ALL of the skills better than EVERYONE.
Most skills become redundant via Magic in the mid to late game. They also have a rogue who is the trapfinder. It looks as all the skills are already covered as well either by Skill or Magic.
It sounds like your group needs some Psionics Swish :)
Psychic Warrior, Dread, Marksman, Psion or Wilder would fit really well with your group :)
I feel at end game they definitely do. I love all things dragons. My favorite Fantasy creature. Almost every time I sit to think of a new character dragon theme always jumps to my mind first before I have to beat it back and think harder.I know right
Dragon oracles, much better for being a flighty dragon guy than sorcs in my opinion.
They really are!
Honestly that mystery is great it really gives you a list of fun and says pick some fun! I love it. I planned an evil vishkanya with the cold blooded curse who was a descendant of a sovereign dragon using this mystery who went all dictator and rightful ruler by blood and divinity.
So much potential for fun.
court poet skald!!!
Cleric 6 / Veiled Illusionist 10. You cover buffs and illusions which none of the others seem to deal heavily in.
Or a gnome spellscar oracle for pure and ultimate chaos.
Bah I should have mentioned: GM is only allowing content from the CRB and APG. Good advice so far though
Swish, are you opposed to ranged specialists? Like a Slayer (archery/stealthy) or a Zen Archer?
Or healing class? Vitalist with Intercessor method would be awesome for a group like that
CRB and APG only?
Alchemist 7/master chymist 9 could be a decent addition for a ranged/melee switch-hitter that can also help out with healing/buffing (via the Infusion discovery and wand use).
Barbarian (invulnerable rager; Lesser Spirit Totem and Spirit Totem rage powers) 6/oracle (Lame oracle curse; probably Battle or Bones mystery*) 2/rage prophet 8 for even more melee combat power (and Ragecaster boosts spell power, as well); note, you can take Extra Rage Power and/or Extra Revelation.
Bard 5/cavalier 1/battle herald 10 could provide some useful support as well as good combat ability (nearly full BAB).
An archer inquisitor is (always) a strong choice.
Speaking of archers, a zen archer monk is one of the strongest pure archers.
The APG-version of a summoner (and their eidolon) can be very powerful.
*- if material from Ultimate Magic was allowed, I'd recommend Ancestors for thematic reasons; Battle for Warsight, Bones for Bleeding Wounds (Lesser Spirit Totem does negative energy damage)
Swish, are you opposed to ranged specialists? Like a Slayer (archery/stealthy) or a Zen Archer?
Or healing class? Vitalist with Intercessor method would be awesome for a group like that
Not opposed to Archers at all. I'm pretty familiar with how much damage output a well tuned arrowslinger can do.
I'm not particularly interested in playing a primary healer, mostly because I get shoehorned into it a lot, though I'm not opposed to a secondary one.
A Zen Archer would be pretty sick in a group like that. So would a Slayer though...
An arcane trickster built to play as an assassin. Use a ring of invisibility + mind blank out of combat and greater invisibility + mind blank in combat. Your party might not even know your there for a few sessions. They just find a few dead bodies here and there, 1/7th of the loot mysteriously disappears, and every once in a while they hear footsteps with no source
Inquisitor archer wouldn't be a bad idea, in a recent archer DPS thread they came out second only to war priest at level 10 and I suspect they take the lead at level 12, plus by level 16 you just reached 6th level casting which is nice. They also make great knowledge skill users which can help supplement your mystic theurge :)
I would go with a Skald or Bard - make everyone else far better at everything they do.
*never stick your tongue out at the DM and start summoning celestial dolphins in response to his "water trap of dooooommmm!!!"
An arcane trickster built to play as an assassin. Use a ring of invisibility + mind blank out of combat and greater invisibility + mind blank in combat. Your party might not even know your there for a few sessions. They just find a few dead bodies here and there, 1/7th of the loot mysteriously disappears, and every once in a while they hear footsteps with no source
Would be totally easy for me to get reintroduced to the party.
I was actually always a party member. They just didn't know it
It looks like your party covers all the traditional roles e.g tank, blaster, battlefield control, trap master etc. reasonably well. This gives you the opportunity to try whatever you like including really unconventional combinations.
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Spirit Guide Nature Oracle. Just stay alive till Level 20 and become a God. Should not be hard to stay alive either as you have a ton of options.Ho Pathfinders!
So I just joined in a campaign that is starting at level 16. 3 game sessions in, my Druid headbutted a Sphere of Annihilation...
I wasn't planning on having to make ANOTHER level 16 character so I'm a little tapped on ideas, so I turn to the masses for advice.
Party makeup consists of:
2-hander Paladin "Boss Killer"
2 weapon sword/shield Fighter "cuisinart"
Rogue who does a little damage, but just invalidates any trap in the dungeon
Wizard/Cleric Mystic Theurge with a binder full of spells that aren't 8th level
Witch who focuses on Hexes and debuffs
And a Dragonblooded Sorceress who isn't great at blowing stuff up, but has a lot of fun doing so.
Suggestions?
How do you become a god??
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How do you become a god??
Spirit Guide Nature Oracle. Just stay alive till Level 20 and become a God. Should not be hard to stay alive either as you have a ton of options.
Use CHA for most everything.
Level 1 Feat: Scion of War: You use your Charisma modifier to adjust Initiative checks instead of your Dexterity modifier.
Revelation: Nature’s Whispers (Ex): You have become so attuned to the whispers of the natural world, from the croaking of frogs to the groaning of great boulders, that your surroundings constantly keep you preternaturally aware of the danger. You may add your Charisma modifier, instead of your Dexterity modifier, to your Armor Class and CMD. Any condition that would cause you to lose your Dexterity modifier to your Armor Class instead causes you to lose your Charisma modifier to your Armor Class.
If you want VMC into Bard or just take Divine Fighting Tech Shooting Star
Initial Benefit(s): You can add your Charisma bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls when wielding a starknife. If you do so, you don’t modify attack rolls and damage rolls with your starknife with your Strength modifier, your Dexterity modifier (if you have Weapon Finesse), or any other ability score (if you have an ability that allows you to modify attack rolls and damage rolls with that ability score).
SO at this point, you get CHA for Initiative, AC, CMD, Attack, and Damage.
At Level 20 you get your capstone:
At 20th level, you have discovered the intrinsic secrets of life itself, granting you incredible control over your own body. Once per day, you can surround yourself with an organic cocoon as a full-round action. While enclosed in the cocoon, you are considered helpless. Eight hours later, you emerge having changed your type to plant, animal, or humanoid, gaining superficial physical characteristics as appropriate (see the Pathfinder RPG Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary). This change does not alter your Hit Dice, hit points, saving throws, skill points, class skills, or proficiencies. Each time the transformation is made, you are cleansed of all poisons or diseases, are restored to full hit points, and heal all ability damage. You must select a new type every time the transformation is made.
With 9th level spells, you want both Miracle and Create Greater Demiplane. Create you a nice Permanate Timeless Demiplane. Go to said demi-plane with your capstone and some nice gold. Cast Maximized Awaken on your animal self, Cacoon back into an animal, Then Repeat till broke. Each time you cast Maximized Awaken you gain +3 CHA permanently while your INT becomes 18. Build that CHA up to unreal levels like say 500. Now you have a +250 Modifier for Attacks, Damage, initiative, AC, and CMD. You go first, Have lots of Miracles to solve all your problems, and can hit like a mac truck. The more cash you have the higher you jack that up. Your only downfall is your saves so you're gonna want to buff the crap out of them with magic items. But you're untouchable in melee and can out damage most people with a full round attack with a star knife.
Since he is MYTHIC he has so much more action economy and toys to play with that you pretty much can kill anything that has a stat block. There are even mythic options to grant divine powers to others like a Deity does.
The rub with the nature oracle divinity thing is that awaken has an int requirement. You need to add some goofy methods to nail yourself with some stripe of int drain to satisfy the Awaken prereqs which generally requires a lot of wierd fiddling with Contingency or bound outsiders since a GM can very easily say an int 1-2 animal isn't smart enough to do the trick.
Maximize spell and you Maximize 3d6 to 18 every time. You can either take the feat or buy a Rod.
Also, the Cacoon makes you an Animal with the INT score you already have. So your INT does not drop to 1-2
You misunderstand. Awaken can't be cast on an animal with more than 2 int. Hence the whole thing with drain, contingencies, and probably giving your GM a pizza to get in his good graces.
It's still very possible. Contingency is a good way. Outside drops your Int to 1-2, Contingency Awaken trigger. Cacoon resets your Int...next day do it again.
Oh yeah once your GM sees what you're up too they may want to just kill you off right there.
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You'll need to exit the timeless demiplane or you'll be eternally cocooned as, regarding magic, the duration is permanent until dispelled.
Problem is, does the "same source" rule apply to awaken? I'm thinking awaken being an instantaneous effect resolves the issue.
A 'reasonable' investment of gp, much the same as those crafting Tiny Mud Gods (homunculus) with "only" 100-some-odd additional hit dice at creation, is 220,000 gp. The cost for create greater demiplane for privacy and security, which is a 500 gp focus, you have at least 20 days to rack 'em and stack 'em with each casting. You'll only need to cast it once.
You'll probably want to use the example given of spending as much as a year inside only to find 6 seconds has passed back on the Material Plane. Time issues solved with one casting, and you'll return six seconds later with all of your spell slots prepared in a shiny new body of whatever type you fancy.
Cocoon until you have a body you like - the implication is that you get to choose, so perhaps a humanoid plant to add those lovely plant traits on top of it.
110 castings of awaken in this manner costs 220,000 gp worth of consumable M components. Worth every copper for adding 330 points to your Charisma score!
You don't care about Mythic anything for all practical purposes even if you are not yourself a mythic character, although it is in your best interest to be so with the ridiculous number of mythic effects that deny saves to non-mythic targets. You could vanquish your enemies with a plastic starknife regardless of DR, regeneration or nearly anything else. All you need now is a way to swap Cha for Con to hp and on all of your saves...
Solving the Int-above-2 issue without simultaneously trashing Cha along with it is, at this point, what your buddy uses a custom variant of feeblemind for. Yep, you bring your feeblemind caster buddy along with you. To enjoy eleven months in a tropical paradise (the greater demiplane), of which they spend 1 day with you. The variant is simple: it only penalizes Intelligence. Worst-case cost I can think of is 20,000 gp, so you pay for that cost from your 220k gp budget and "only" add 300 points to your Charisma score. Once you're done, pony up the 1,500 gp for the limited wish diamond to remove their own feeblemind from you, and you're good.
Keeping the entire process' cost to exactly 220,000 gp nets you an increase of either 291 or 300 to Charisma, depending on how much the custom spell research sets you back. ;)
Bring along the entire group to enjoy the extensive vacation. Your caster buddy has eleven months to fashion their Tiny Mud God, which should be more than enough time.
If you're feeling generous, have the same trick applied to everyone else in the group. +300 Charisma for everyone! Your paladin, scaled disciple monk, swashbucklers and other Cha-based characters will love you. An entire team of Cha-based monstrosities.
This, uh, does have the slight drawback of arranging for everyone to be an animal. I suggest polymorph any object. Apply eternal loop of Maximized awaken until everyone's blown 200,000 gp on Material components. Cast 1 greater demiplane per character. Spend maybe 30 seconds to a minute, total time, on the Material Plane whilst the entire group is powered up to ELEVEN.
Frickin' awesome.
Good Explanation Comrade
Correct me if I'm wrong, but
An awakened animal gets 3d6 Intelligence, +1d3 Charisma, and +2 HD. Its type becomes magical beast (augmented animal). An awakened animal can't serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount.
says nothing about needing an Int 1 or 2 creature. It does say it has to be of the Animal type, which normally means low intelligence, but since the capstone says nothing about changing Int (and would be largely useless if you became an animal in mind every time you became one in body),it's reasonable to assume this is the "specific trumps general" rule coming into play.
Now, you still need to worry about that Will save to succeed casting the spell, especially as it increases in DC by two every casting.....
The last line in Awaken says it doesn't function on plants/animals with an int greater than 2.
variant feeblemind, removing the Cha of 1 part. Problem solved. Save the feeblemind caster for last as that character will have to hand it to you on a scroll along with a M-component-included limited wish.
I'd suggest researching a variant of awaken which does not add hit dice to solve the HD dilemma. Or use miracle to auto-succeed on your Will save. Either would do the trick.
Egads ... that's brilliant.
+300 Charisma and +200 animal HD. That's, what, +150 base attack bonus increase, +900 hp plus whatever Con bonus per HD, +100 to base Fort and Reflex saves, +50 to base Will saves ...
I'd hate to calculate the APL after doing that, so save everyone from going insane (the players and *especially* the GM) and do the no-extra-HD variant.
Pick up the variant awaken and feeblemind spells via level advancement spells known/bonus spells. You learn those instead of or in addition to at whatever point, no cost required.
Nasty, nice, I love it.
Messed up part is that you could pull this off without a hitch at 18th level Oracle with a 16th level arcane caster cohort.
You could "only" cycle Maximized awaken 65 times per character at a cost of 131,500 gp plus the 500 gp focus, but otherwise it'll work. I'd take a "mere" +195 increased Charisma for 132k, no question. Retraining if necessary. ;)
Yes I get there are ways around it (I think there's a qlippoth that has an int drain poison that you can bind to handle such things natively).
The general point is that the loop requires a bit more steps than just flip flopping between human/animal form and casting awaken.
Agreed, Tarik. It's a bit more complicated, but not too terribly much. Except for whatever's on the receiving end of this when the party emerges with Super-Charisma-everything in operation after a 30 second reprieve.
*grins*
Just remember to turn yourself undead first before going on your rampage.
Oh and watch out for the Sphere of Annihilation that will mysteriously fall out of the sky on your head (You did remember to bribe the GM with pizza right?)
GM gets items of choice, one per player. A nice scotch, a keg of beer, the best pizza in town, everyone pitches in, tailored to the GMs tastes of course. Make the GM full, fuzzy and happy.
I'd allow it with such bribery just to see the carnage unfold, within the restrictions of "no extra Hit Dice". I love it when players go on a rampage like this. Lets 'em do stuff in mere days that would previously take months. You can add a massive sense of urgency to "Chapter 6" scenarios. It'd be pretty awesome, I think.
Welp this is an impressive derail xD
Welp this is an impressive derail xD
It builds on the suggestion I made earlier which did answer his question. But it is back on track now. Sometimes other people come into threads and find things they like and want more info on. The OP can basically pick anything since the group is so large. In mythic, I say why not go big. =) Not every day you get to start and end at such high levels. I personally would go for power picks and massive utility to solve any problem. So when the person who fills a role can't overcome, you sure as heck can miracle the answer.
I'm currently deeply bummed out that the player can't be a dragon oracle for that reason.
I'm currently deeply bummed out that the player can't be a dragon oracle for that reason.
Yeah..it is a great suggestion.
Paladin 2/Sorcerer 6/Eldritch Knight 4/Arcane Archer 4
Your party doesn't really seem to cover ranged combat at all outside of blasts, which are generally sub-par. This build has excellent BAB for doing archery, some very nice class abilities, and can imbue 6th level spells in arrows.
Wizard 12/Arcane Archer 4 is an alternative and gets you 8th level spells but rather poor BAB.
Fighter 2/Wizard 10/Arcane Archer 4 gets 7th level spells, 3 iterative attacks and bonus feats to help with qualifying.
They're all good builds and would complement your party well, take your pick. Or you could just do a straight Cleric archer if you feel Arcane Casting's been suitably covered. The main draw is putting antimagic fields on enemy casters from across the battlefield but there are plenty of other things you can do as well.