If: Paladin = Martial Cleric
Does: Martial Paladin = Martial squared Cleric ?
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A few thoughts. It might not seem like it, but the GM is “playing” the game as well, it’s not just the players. So the players should make an effort to engage in the game world in a way that is fun for the GM too. It should not be up to the GM to solve every problem at the table. It sounds like the player who wrote the opening post is interested in helping fix the problem, which is a great start. If I was a player at that table I would: 1) Encourage the GM to boost boss encounters so that they remain significant. 2) Tell the GM to change the occasional encounter to invalidate normal tactics. 3) Otherwise, leave the other encounters as written, if the PCs come up with clever tactics let them work most of the time.
Weird, the post I was responding to seems to have disappeared.
The concept of initiative and taking or seizing the initiative has a long history in military doctrine around the world. I assumed that D&D adopted the term due to its war gaming roots. That’s why they didn’t call it something else instead.
Did your group persevere with those rules? We ditched them early on. Referring to a table for every single hit roll was ridiculously tedious. And the initiative rules were so convoluted we basically went with PCs go first, then NPCs, unless the PCs were surprised.
Interesting. You say it is a better game because it made the original game more playable, but you think that the mechanics can be overly restrictive, especially as a GM building adventures. It sounds like you know AD&D really well and have a lot of love for it, that it makes you feel more creative when running it as a DM and it is less restrictive. But you find Pathfinder to be the better game to run. My impression is that game philosophy has changed over the years. In original AD&D the DMG was much longer than the PHB, and there was no combined "Core" book. The rules were less systematic and less precisely defined, so GMs used to homebrew and house rule far more content. The old rules were also less integrated with one another, so ignoring a rule or changing rules had less dramatic consequences, you didn't have to worry about the flow on effects in most cases. You could completely ignore the confusing mess of the initiative rules for instance and it would have negligible impact on the functionality of the game. Table variation was enormous, many of the rules were a mystery to the players and the GM was far more central to the game. The big problem with this approach was GMs and players often argued about what was a reasonable ruling in a given scenario and this ruined the experience for everyone. From this we had the tropes: "rules lawyer PC" and "killer GM". Pathfinder is more rules centric. An experienced player will often know the rules as well as, if not better than, the GM. That changes the experience quite a lot. Player success is more defined by character build now than it used to be. Back in AD&D times player success depended on how well they could adapt on the fly. A good player picked up on "cues" provided by the GM and so being immersed in the setting was critical. In Pathfinder much of what used to be dependent on the player can now be decided with game mechanics. In my opinion this has greatly reduced the amount of arguments at the table, as both GM and player know and agree on the rules. It also reduces GM favouritism because more aspects of the game can be fairly decided with a dice roll. As a GM, Pathfinder feels more restrictive, generally if I want to introduce homebrew rules I have to spend a lot of time deciding on the various interactions with the existing rules. On the other hand, much of the work has been done already, as often many options that I want are already available, I just have to find them. An example of this are the magic rules. I don't like that spellcasting is so predictable in Pathfinder, that doesn't feel like magic to me. Luckily, I can use the existing setting rules for the First World to modify the way magic works so that I don't have to invent my own rules and worry how that might impact the game overall.
I don’t know exactly why I like AD&D so much. It has a weird “X factor” about it where even its many flaws somehow add to its overall charm. I don’t think it is pure nostalgia either, because I started with basic D&D and I don’t feel the same way about that game. At least part of the reason for me is that AD&D fosters creativity and simultaneously a sense of mystery in a way no other system does. Sorry, if I am sounding vague, it is difficult to express the feeling in words, but what I mean is that when I used to build a campaign in AD&D it felt like I was discovering things as much as creating them. Pathfinder is a better game because it has captured a lot of the essence of the original but cleaned it up so that it is far more playable. I sometimes find the game mechanics overly restrictive, especially as a GM building adventures, but overall I think they have gotten the balance right.
I’ve played so many different RPGs I’ve lost count, and I’ve always returned to D&D/Pathfinder. In my opinion some games are better in particular areas: VTM has better atmosphere, GURPS has better mechanics, Pendragon better facilitates roleplaying, and FATE better supports narrative. However, as a total package, nothing beats the original format, and Pathfinder 1st edition executes that format the best. Even better than AD&D which I consider second best. I’m sure at least part of that is based on nostalgia, but I can’t help feeling that the old trope of cleric, fighter, mage, and thief working together to conquer a dungeon can’t be beat.
Quoting myself from a different thread
I posted that years ago, before 2nd edition Pathfinder came out, but it is still true, at least for me.
Lay on Hands is powerful, especially in combination with the Ultimate Mercy feat.
Assuming you want shaping effects to be common I would first work out which spell on the wizard spell list is closest to the effect you want then apply the formula: DC = 15 + 3 x spell level. I would rule that a 10 minute ritual is required to use a shaping effect unless the PC spends a mythic point to reduce the time to a standard action. I would let characters spend an additional mythic point to use mythic surge on the charisma check too. I would also let some types of luck bonuses apply to the charisma check, even if the rules wouldn’t ordinarily allow it.
The other interesting thing about the Dimension of Time is that the Necronomicon is one of the known ways to access it, which ties in nicely with any Dark Tapestry related plot.
The Dimension of Time is so mysterious that you could hand wave the canonical jungle description as the perspective of a single traveler following their own timeline.
You could have Aroden leave clues behind for his disciples to follow and find him. Unfortunately, some nefarious entity has destroyed the clues, so the PCs will have to find a way into the Dimension of Time so that they can witness Aroden in the past and see what clues he left behind. You could run the Dimension of Time like some weird mega-dungeon where a few of the rooms hold scenes from Aroden’s past (but most are just really hazardous). The PCs have to negotiate the mega-dungeon, gather and interpret the clues, and then use them to find Aroden somewhere in the Dark Tapestry.
If you are anticipating the PCs going into the Dark Tapestry then you might like to blow the dust off some old Lovecraft literature and read it again. I’ve always found that helps my creative process.
YES!!! Great idea!!! I was thinking it would be kind of cool if Zon-Kuthon was evil Aroden but I’m not sure how that would fit into existing Pathfinder canon.
I was thinking you should have an overarching theme for this campaign. The first thing that came to mind is the duality of existence where many aspects of reality have two parts: light and dark, good and evil, chaos and order, life and death, male and female etc. How this applies to Aroden is that when he ventured into the Dark Tapestry in the hope of uncovering the nature of reality he discovered things, terrible dangerous things, forbidden knowledge that was kept locked away for good reason. This knowledge was so powerful and profound it didn’t just drive Aroden to the edge of insanity it literally ripped him into two entirely different opposing beings. This is the real reason he can’t be contacted and is believed to be dead, he now exists as two new gods, one lawful good, the other lawful evil (and possibly one male and one female if you like). Your Oracle PC unknowingly worships one half of the split god, but Aroden needs to be made whole again. That is the quest the Oracle embarked upon when he disappeared and that is the quest the new PCs will ultimately find themselves on. They must journey to the Dark Tapestry and fulfil the prophecy. “That is not dead which can eternal lie,
Question: do your players read the forums? I have some ideas but I don’t want your players to see them.
My first reaction is this sounds like a legendary campaign, truly epic in scope. Since you are planning so far in advance you have the opportunity to drop hints about Aroden’s fate right from the start for some awesome foreshadowing. So my advice is be very clear about Aroden’s backstory and record it in great detail so that you can drop hints on the fly if the PC’s investigations don’t proceed as anticipated. Don’t worry about giving away the big reveal early on, my experience is that even if the PCs guess correctly they will never be sure and in a campaign that long they will end up second guessing themselves many times.
Great choice, in my experience battles against dragons are often epic. Plus I think it makes sense to drop the mindless requirement. An intelligent foe is more challenging and interesting.
I’m not a big fan of swarms either. If you have Bestiary 6 then perhaps the Vorgozen Kaiju (CR29) with mythic and other templates added is the kind of challenge you are looking for. You could rename it the Spawn of Azathoth if you want to make it sound more impressive.
Crazy idea: could you adapt the Swarm rules to create a Swarm of Shoggoths? That sounds mindless and apocalyptic to me.
Hmmm… this could be an opportunity to create unique monsters. Or you could borrow ideas from other games to modify existing monsters, for example: Legendary Actions borrowed from D&D5e, up to 3 times per day the monster can choose to succeed on saving throw they previously failed. Cosmic Enhancement borrowed from GURPS, remove one or more limitations normally tied to an ability. For example: the red dragon’s breath weapon ignores fire resistance, or the evil wizard’s Mirror Images don’t disappear when struck. Invoke Consequences borrowed from Fate, a successful attack roll allows the monster to inflict a condition upon the victim like blindness for the rest of the combat with no saving throw. Another possibility is to move the campaign to somewhere very strange like Leng, the Dead Vault, or the Dimension of Time. That way you can set very challenging environments for your players.
@ Mark Hoover Do you want your PCs to role play more? Or do you like them just the way they are? As things stand now, at least you know how to motivate them. If you want PCs to role play more set them role playing challenges. For example if the PCs need an artefact to slay the BBEG make it so that the artefact only works if given freely by the rightful owner. The PCs will have to engage in dialogue with the owner of the artefact in order to convince them to part with it of their own free will. If the PCs try to get away with a simple Diplomacy skill check say something like “Your introduction was flawless and respectful of their culture, you have their undivided attention, what do you want to say?” Basically don’t discount their skills completely but don’t let a single roll solve the PCs challenge either.
In my experience high level campaigns work the best in the hostile Outer Planes. That way it doesn’t seem weird to be constantly fighting overpowered foes and the environment itself can be used to challenge them. Plus the PCs can become unwitting pawns in cosmic power struggles of epic proportions. Here’s an idea: The PCs are invited to the King’s banquet to celebrate the success of their adventures. Mid-way through the banquet a horde of devils arrives led by a ridiculously powerful mythic archduke of Hell, the personal emissary of Asmodeus himself. The PCs are completely outmatched. The devils slaughter everyone including the PCs and take their stuff before leaving. After the battle the King and one PC is revived (preferably one who can revive the others) by the royal healer with a Raise Dead spell. They awake to find the royal banquet hall desecrated and covered in Infernal writing mocking the fallen heroes. Feel free to insert whatever insults will rile the PCs the most. The idea is to make them want revenge so desperately they will travel to Hell to get it. Thus the campaign begins.
The Marshwiggles from The Silver Chair would be a cool option for a new PC race. Also the Elvins from the Fighting Fantasy series. Although that would be annoying for any spell casters in the party.
If it was allowed the monsters from that other game: the Beholder, Mind Flayer and Umber Hulk are the main ones for me. The Caustigus from yet another game would be cool as well. Something like the Pantathians from the Rift War Saga would be nice. The Sandgorgon and Ravers from the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant would be awesome.
Mythic characters are supposed to be overpowered, if I were a GM running a mythic rules campaign then I would be okay with far more cheese than an ordinary game. Plus, I think it is a cool idea, so I would definitely allow it.
Add a smattering of dialogue. Just enough to make it interesting, but not so much it gets repetitive and boring. “You have wounded me villain, I shall smite thee!” “I will crush thee puny mortal.” “That arrow was too close for comfort.” “You shall never take me alive.” “You have bested me. Curse you and your kinfolk.”
Interesting tactic. Unfortunately, it is not as viable in Pathfinder as the Tarrasque is so big you would need to be a 27th level caster to effect the entire creature.
It is a powerful spell if used intelligently. I can only recall using it twice in combat due to the one round casting time.
One big plus of homebrew campaigns is flexibility. If you find something isn’t working as well as you hoped you can change it. If it is a major change make sure you get buy in from your players before you make the change. Another is the world building. The process of creating a campaign world is ideally nearly as much fun as actually running the game. In a sandbox style homebrew campaign this is especially important because a huge amount of content you create might never be used.
In my opinion there are two features you absolutely must have for a homebrew campaign to be successful. 1) the idea must be interesting to you (the GM). The last thing you want to do is get bored of running your own campaign and watch it turn from fun to a tedious chore. If you are not sure how long you can sustain your interest plan for a short campaign and then extend it later if it feels right. Running long campaigns can be surprisingly taxing, even if you have a really interesting idea, so take breaks and let other GMs run their game for a while if you can. and 2) the idea must be interesting to your players. Before you do too much work pitch the idea to your players and ask for feedback. Be open to tweaking your idea based on the feedback you get. Do not drop a complete surprise on your players. If you want to have a cool twist, tell them there will be a twist and drop hints as to what that might be. Players who genuinely want to be surprised won’t try too hard to guess correctly. Those players who don’t like surprises so much, you know the ones, they plan out their entire build at the start of the campaign, well they should be able to guess at least some details. The idea is to, as much as possible, keep everyone happy.
Wow! This project is really cool, the map looks awesome too!
Are you going to post it here (or a link to where it is) when are finished?
Town - Saltwind, an old coastal village renowned for the magical sea eggs harvested along the shore. Adventure - explore the old lighthouse. The bridge that connected the small island where the lighthouse stood was washed away in the millennium storm decades ago. At low tide a brave adventurer could wade out to the lighthouse and explore potential shipwrecks. But some locals say the lighthouse is haunted by the ghost of the old lighthouse keeper who disappeared in the millennium storm all those years ago.
What about a haunted house? The old lord and mayor of the town died decades ago under mysterious circumstances and nobody has dared step foot in that creepy, creaky mansion since. Could be an ideal adventure for low level characters.
I just checked: page 70 of Planar Adventures states that demigods have stat blocks and deities are “beyond the concept of rules”.
At the game mechanics level the difference seems to be simply that demigods have stat blocks and true deities do not. I’m not sure if that is a game design decision or not, but that is certainly how it appears to me. The book Planar Adventurers has some information on demigods.
I agree with Diego Rossi on this one.
For me the simplest way to play evil characters (usually NPCs) is to take a hardline or twisted stance on something that would ordinarily be considered a virtue. In the case of your character the obvious choice is fanatical patriotism based on your backstory. Another common one is a strong sense of justice that gets twisted into the character acting as judge jury and executioner, as the old saying goes. These are so common as to be cliches so you might want to pick a different virtue or combination of virtues to twist to make your character more original.
Getting back to the topic. I don’t think you need the Quick Draw feat. My experience with playing melee inquisitors is that a typical combat would involve a round of buffing and identifying threats, maybe a second round of offensive spells while closing to melee range and then attacking in the third round onwards. There was usually time to draw a weapon before melee combat started without needing the Quick Draw feat. Sometimes I would be surprised and start in melee combat, in which case I would use my swift action to use Judgement and move action to draw a weapon and reposition if necessary before attacking as a standard action. Quick Draw would not have helped.
I can’t find anywhere in the rules it says you need a hand free to use material components (or a divine focus for that matter). The only component where you need to have “at least one hand free” is the somatic component. The rules say you need to manipulate material components to cast spells. Last I checked manipulate means to influence or control. I don’t see any requirement to actually handle the material component, just for it to be under your control or be influenced by you. I can see an argument whereby a mind controlled minion that carries the material component for you still counts.
@ Azothath, My interest is from a geometric perspective, not a physics perspective, but thanks anyway.
233. Aroden isn’t dead. He took a sabbatical to form a rock band. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5NoQg8LdDk&pp=ygUUcGxheWluZyBnb2QgcG9seX BoaWE%3D
232. Aroden had plans within plans, but forgot that the spice must flow.
It would be interesting if pit spells were true extra-dimension spaces as in they extended into the fourth dimension. If gravity doesn’t extend into that fourth dimension, because there is no mass there, then creatures wouldn’t fall into the pit at all. If there is gravity drawing creatures into the fourth dimension it would draw all creatures along the three dimensional boundary equally since the fourth dimension is perpendicular to all of the three standard dimensions. So a creature that earth glides towards the side could find themselves falling horizontally into the pit from their perspective. Also, if the three dimensional walls surrounding the pit weren’t very strong they would collapse into the fourth dimension. Very weird.
Sam did not say most CR1 or less he just said “most” and taken in the context of the rest of his post it looks like he was talking about characters as they develop, who would face a range of threats. I don’t see evidence that he was only talking about level 1 beginning characters confronting CR1 or less foes, so why assume that he is and accuse him of spreading misinformation?
My spells I picked for level 1 are Infernal Healing, Grease, Mage Armor, Secluded Grimoire, Summon Minor Monster, Disguise Self and Silent Image. Thinking of possibly swapping Summon Minor Monster and Infernal Healing... That is a solid spell selection in my opinion. If it were me I would probably swap Grease out for Magic Missile, for whatever reason Grease has never really been effective at our table, but your table might be different, plus Magic Missile wouldn’t go with your focus on conjuration and illusion spells. Infernal Healing is a good spell provided that you don’t mind detecting as evil temporarily. I found it to be better outside combat due to the one round casting time, but I would take it regardless. Summoning spells are strong, but bear in mind that summoned flying creatures, as per the general rules for conjuration, start on the ground. Also many GMs have homebrew rules around summoning or don’t let players control their own summons. Check with your GM first before going down the summoning route.
Grease is a poor spell, as most will pass the save.At low level, objectively false. Please stop spreading misinformation. What do you mean by objectivity false? At my table the Grease spell has generally been ineffective, even at low level play, and not from lack of trying. Are you saying my experience is objectively wrong?
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