Advice about a problem player...


Advice

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Hi everyone, I have some scenarios to present that have come up with a problem player in our group - he believes he's getting the short end of the stick every time.

Campaign is Reign Of Winter, albeit I've modified it substantially and personalized it. The characters in the group could not be any more different from each other. Aasimar Paladin, Tiefling Priestess of Arazani (formerly Orcus) (this is the problem player), Halfling Witch and Half Elf Inquisitor. The group is heavily good except for the Tiefling player who regardless of any game has to play the most evil characters around (they will not play even neutral characters)

So...to give some background. The group works well together but the Tiefling persistently does the whole "I'm chaotic evil" bit and frequently opens their mouth without thinking, threatens NPC's or other player characters, puts their own preservation before others (frequently runs away in the first round of combat), charges for healing, makes magic items for the party members (who if they refuse them they get all pissed off, if they take them they "owe" them). Our group is fairly small and we are all great friends in real life, but where games are concerned we consistently butt heads.

I'm the DM in this game, and I've allowed the Tiefling to "mulligan" some of its more stupid decisions that impact the party but I've stopped pulling my punches after the 8th incident just now.

Without cataloging all the events individually I'll touch on the major (party conflict causing ones). In each and every instance the player takes the other players reactions personally and fights ensue.

Examples are...

1) Wanting to raise the Halfling characters dead wife as a rotting undead Mummy without consulting them. The party doesn't tolerate undead in the group but they felt this was a stellar idea - when the Halfling found out and the party by extension it caused a fight. (They believed the Halfling never loved his wife as he should "want her back no matter what" and was ungrateful after giving him a magic item earlier which was now being leveraged in the arguement)

2) His character has a murderous insane demon spawn daughter the party wanted no part of or even be around. They made a deal that she could come only if she's adequately controlled (Geas' and the like) so to not bring trouble down on the group. Everything was fine until the time came the daughter got the spells cast on her by an NPC, this became a "lobotomy" in their eyes, more fights ensued.

3) He cast a Charm spell on an important NPC Inquisitor who hates enslavement and compulsions with every fibre of their being. All in front of the other party members too and for no reason. The Inquisitor identified the source and confronted the Tiefling, locking her up. She was put on trial (heavy handed they believed) and released with strict conditions back to her party.

4) Numerous instances of opening their mouth without thinking, "involuntary outbursts" as they called it. Their character makes fun of NPCs and other individuals they meet which sours negotiations and diplomacy rolls and suchlike which complicates the party's efforts further.

5) Insulted Orcus (who they formerly worshipped) inside one of his temples and caused the party to be harassed by numerous demons. When the party found out why they were constantly being attacked this led to the Tiefling being near booted out of the group. They originally cut Orcus' statues head off its shoulders during this before I let them mulligan that part. They genuinely believed they could "handle" anything Orcus threw at them and his resources would be too thin to come after them full force. I explained that was a stupid assumption to make, he would dead sooner or later.

6) Again with the undead raising of family members. This time a very powerful NPCs elderly mother (I could turn her into a Vampire and she can live forever) as well as wanting to summon a Contract Devil to give the old woman a wish for her soul. She expected this to be taken well by the powerful NPC who the group needed to acquire a ship and safe passage from. She then threatened the NPC with alerting Orcus to her presence and having a demon horde descend on the city to kill everyone and her once she disagreed.

Now it's gotten to the point other party members literally want to kick her out of the group and despite trying to talk to the player out of character they feel everyone is overreacting to what they are doing "I'm just playing my character" is a common excuse. Other players have talked to them too and while we get along fine out of character it's always competition in charvter (he's a Power Gamer/Rules Lawyer/Diva kind of player who loves show value to get attention. If he can't play an evil demon loving CE priestess then he won't play at all and with our small group size we don't want to lose a player and a friend)

Does anyone have any other suggestions for how to deal with this player? Am I being too heavy handed by not pulling punches and having people not just shrug or laugh off his antics? (He believes he should have slapstick consequences like slaps upside the head and such but nothing more serious. Anyone who actually hurts his character he plots to murder and kill their loved ones).

Thanks


Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Kick them out of the group, they don't seem to be contributing even despite being talked to OOC about it. You can still be friends with them and play other games, just don't invite them back to Pathfinder until they can learn to work along with the party instead of working against them.


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*sigh*
'I'm just playing my character'... Just kick them and move on.
Anyone who uses this line, probably with a smirk, doesn't deserve a second chance. From what you have said anything else would be wasting everyone's time.

Sovereign Court

The Paladin should have killed the Priestess already anyway.

Let that happen, then force the player to play a "G" PC and enforce the "G". If they refuse then they have made the decision to not play in your group, problem solved.

Really, is there any reason to keep this player? Do they own the play area? Someone's bf/gf/spouse?


Step 1 is always speak to the person OOC and explain to them that while their fun is important it is not more important than the other players or the GM's and can not come at the cost of the others fun. To think otherwise would be selfish. It seems you've already had this talk and if so you need to move on to step 2, just make sure they've actually listened and that you've pointed out:

-that no one persons fun should trump the fun of others
-that a decided upon roleplay is not an excuse to betray the above premise
-that willfully doing otherwise is highly disrespectful to all parties involved
-that a certain style of play was agreed upon by all other players and it is necessary for them to accept the will of the group.

Step 2 is kicking them, obviously as politely as possible as this is a friend but understanding that a real friend would not willingly put their own personal sense of fun so far above everyone else's that they would create such a scenario in the first place.


Spacelard wrote:

*sigh*

'I'm just playing my character'... Just kick them and move on.
Anyone who uses this line, probably with a smirk, doesn't deserve a second chance. From what you have said anything else would be wasting everyone's time.

Minus the "probably with a smirk" part, I disagree with this. You wouldn't kick a paladin player for preemptively attacking a demon the group was trying to negotiate with for "just playing their character" (even though I kinda disagree with this cliche way of playing a paladin, I understand why a more common person might think that's how they are supposed to play the paladin). Likewise, if the GM actually allows you to be chaotic evil, then they should expect you to play chaotic evil.


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yeah, really should basically have the rule that you must be non-evil. And enforce that rule. Doing what they are doing there's no reason in game for the good party to be working with this evil jerk. So the good party should move on from this guy that they should drop.


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PATHFINDER AM PARTIALLY DELICATE SOCIAL DYNAMIC. AM IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER OTHERS WHO AM IN GROUP.

SOMETIMES, BARBARIAN WANT SMASH CASTY BECAUSE BARBARIAN AM CREATED SPECIFICALLY FOR SMASHING OF CASTY. THAT AM BARBARIAN, THAT AM WHAT BARBARIAN DO. HOWEVER, BARBARIAN REALIZE THAT SOMETIMES CASTY AM ALSO PC AT TABLE, AND MAYBE NOT FOR SMASHING SINCE SMASHING OTHER PC AM RUINING THEIR GAME EXPERIENCE. AM IMPORTANT TO HAVE FUN, YES, BUT AM ALSO IMPORTANT TO NOT ATTEMPT TO RUIN GAME FOR EVERYONE UNDER EXCUSE OF "AM JUST PLAYING CHARACTER."

THAT AM ASKING FOR PROBLEM.

AS PERSON HAVE ALREADY BEEN TALKED TO AND RESPONSE AM 'ME AM PLAYING THIS CHARACTER THAT AM TERRIBLY DISRUPTIVE OR ME AM WALKING,' BARBARIAN RECOMMEND CORDIALLY DISAGREE, PUT LANCE THROUGH FACE, LET WALK.

IF FRIENDSHIP AM ABLE BE RUINED OVER THING LIKE LONGTIME PATHFINDER PROBLEM COMING TO HEAD BECAUSE OTHER PARTY AM BEING GIANT JERKFACE, AM PROBABLY NOT MUCH OF FRIENDSHIP IN FIRST PLACE.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

While I don't agree that evil characters should never be allowed in games, this player has clearly shown they aren't mature enough to do so in a sensible manner that doesn't hurt other players' enjoyment. Since it seems you've already talked to the player about this without much luck, you have a couple options:

1. Ask them to make a new, non-evil character and explain exactly how their other character is harming the other players' experience and why this is necessary.

2. Boot them out. Politely, if you're all friends and would like to remain so, though there's probably no way to get out of this without some ruffled feathers.

Since there have been multiple issues, I'd be more inclined to just go straight to option 2, but ymmv.


We have established some ground rules for characters in the group, he has made it very clear it's chaotic evil priestess or nothing - as our group is so small if he doesn't play frequently one or two of the others back out too.

He can play Chaotic Evil but the crux is when he says "I'm just playing my character" the arguement works both ways too, when other players get mad in character they're doing what they should do too and it doesn't sit right with him, he takes it personal, etc.

He's been removed from groups before for his toxic behaviour (power gaming, rules lawyering and so on) and we are trying our best to educate/teach him how to work with a party and show how his character can cooperate within guidelines (Baba Yaga has basically compelled the party to work together to save her, which is how the unusual party dynamic was explained at the start).

For instance Orcus sent a Beblith at the party to get the Priestess and the Paladin defender her Ally as much as she annoyed her yet the Priestess just hid behind some summoned monsters unapologetic about her cowardice. The Paladin almost had their Armour ruined in that fight, and the Paladin player was annoyed at their cowardice (as was the group) but nobody took it personal. I've told this player they could easily do that and turn the tables on him, since he takes everything personal.

I know when I suggest he play non-evil he will literally walk away, which is unfortunate - the other players don't play nearly enough and when he pulls out they will probably lose interest with the group size reduced to 3.

Sovereign Court

Reksew_Trebla wrote:
Spacelard wrote:

*sigh*

'I'm just playing my character'... Just kick them and move on.
Anyone who uses this line, probably with a smirk, doesn't deserve a second chance. From what you have said anything else would be wasting everyone's time.
Minus the "probably with a smirk" part, I disagree with this. You wouldn't kick a paladin player for preemptively attacking a demon the group was trying to negotiate with for "just playing their character" (even though I kinda disagree with this cliche way of playing a paladin, I understand why a more common person might think that's how they are supposed to play the paladin). Likewise, if the GM actually allows you to be chaotic evil, then they should expect you to play chaotic evil.

There comes a time where the player needs to take a read of the group and put their own entitlement aside.

Said player was making a Demon worshiping cleric for a group that was populated with a Paladin and other good aligned PCs.

I would expect the same for a player making a Paladin in a group of evil aligned PCs.

Grand Lodge

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This is one reason most campaigns do not allow evil characters...too many people play them as Chaotic Stupid.

I would give the player a final warning...stop ruining the game or you will be removed from it.


Sounds like you're being screwed by a lack of replacements for him. Start looking for places to recruit more players? Gaming stores and the like. Does PFS operate in your area?

Sovereign Court

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ID-TheDemonOfElru wrote:

We have established some ground rules for characters in the group, he has made it very clear it's chaotic evil priestess or nothing - as our group is so small if he doesn't play frequently one or two of the others back out too.

He can play Chaotic Evil but the crux is when he says "I'm just playing my character" the arguement works both ways too, when other players get mad in character they're doing what they should do too and it doesn't sit right with him, he takes it personal, etc.

He's been removed from groups before for his toxic behaviour (power gaming, rules lawyering and so on) and we are trying our best to educate/teach him how to work with a party and show how his character can cooperate within guidelines (Baba Yaga has basically compelled the party to work together to save her, which is how the unusual party dynamic was explained at the start).

For instance Orcus sent a Beblith at the party to get the Priestess and the Paladin defender her Ally as much as she annoyed her yet the Priestess just hid behind some summoned monsters unapologetic about her cowardice. The Paladin almost had their Armour ruined in that fight, and the Paladin player was annoyed at their cowardice (as was the group) but nobody took it personal. I've told this player they could easily do that and turn the tables on him, since he takes everything personal.

I know when I suggest he play non-evil he will literally walk away, which is unfortunate - the other players don't play nearly enough and when he pulls out they will probably lose interest with the group size reduced to 3.

Is there a way to invite another player?


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Wait, this is reign of winter?

Start pinging him with his Geas for being too disruptive. He'll get the idea, or he'll be crippled.


Each player should be responsible for deciding why their character would be in the group. If they don't have a plausible reason for being in the group, then they should not be in the group. It seems like this group keeps this priestess around is "because meta."

Personally, I would not have let them make up a CE priestess to join a group of good characters. But you did so that's nice of you. However, it is causing problems for the group so it must be addressed. Ask them to make up another character, and insist that it be compatible with the group. If they are a friend, they shouldn't have a problem with doing so. Good luck!


Evil alignments, particularly of the chaotic variety, require a certain amount of maturity. I haven't seen your game in play, but if it is as I imagaine (and based on personal experience) then the player does not have sufficient maturity. Why hasn't the paladin done something about this? This might warrant a stripping of paladin powers. A paladin' code of conduct is not a role-playing suggestion - it's a class feature.


If anyone else acted silly (such as the example of the Paladin player smashing a demon in the face mid negotiation) I would penalize them too and the party should be rightly annoyed as well, as perhaps they needed to negotiate for something important first before they fought.

The problem is the party does what they're supposed to do, but this one player well...he keeps doing the whole "chaotic stupid" thing (he thinks his decisions in character are all great or well thought out, he genuinely doesn't understand when people get upset at what he said and why)

I've been plaguing him now with his Geas from Baba Yaga after pulling some punches but he still thinks that's heavy handed (and "god like" he hates he doesn't get to roll to save against the consequences).

It's specifically because of that Geas that allowed the party to be as weird as it is, but he thinks other people should be punished too not just him. Problem is others disagree as they are working together it just so happens they frequently unite against him when he does stupid stuff like angering Orcus.


This guy literally sounds like me in high school, and realtalk, me in high school was a jerk. Speaking from experience, 'anything that doesn't turn out how he likes' is likely to be viewed as heavy handed (And of course geas doesn't grant a save, that's the point of geas.)

The beating should continue until intelligence improves, but honestly he really should not be at your table. He's disruptive, and clearly doesn't care about people beyond himself. You've spoken to him multiple times, he's not interested in changing, at that point excising him from your group is not your choice, it's his. He's forced your hand here.

You may need to find a new player.


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Never forget the saying:

"No gaming is better than bad gaming."

Is it really worth saving a group that is regularly devolving into real-life arguments and drama?


As for the suggestion of stripping the Paladins powers, she's attacked and hurt this character many times but she is constantly fighting with the priestess, she wants to kill her but knows doing so will upset the friendship because this person takes it too personally. She's made it clear once Baba Yaga is free she is going to kill her, it's become her mission at this point and she's not wavering on it.


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"he has made it very clear it's chaotic evil priestess or nothing"

Then tell him it's nothing. Seriously, this is SUPER common manipulation tactic of doing an all or nothing deal. Tell him that unless he's willing to play a good person he will not play via the evil or nothing option. Once he sticks to evil, kick him out. Try hard to find new players or go towards online.

cause all you say just confirms that he's not able to play evil responsibly, doesn't work with party, and feel personally attacked when the party responds appropriately in game to his antics.

If he wants to play then he'll come back and accept not being evil. If he doesn't you're better off not having someone that ruins the fun.


I do think you shouldn't penalize the paladin for not killing her.

But the paladin should totally kill her. ICA=ICC.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

So you think that if you kick this person out, you won't have a Pathfinder group to GM?

And you'd rather GM this disfunctional group than not play at all?

Your problem isn't with the player. Your problem is that playing Pathfinder is more important to you than anything else that is happening.

You aren't going to change that player. So either you let them run the group the way they want to, or you stop playing with that group.


I've played in a quite a few groups in the last 30 years, and while I am comfortable interacting with to a wide variety of personalities I simply don't have the patience for repeated antics like those anymore. I appreciate that you are making efforts to keep the peace, which is important because of the social aspect of RPGs. Someone has to do it. However, there must be a point at which you draw the line and the player must choose which which side of that line to be one.


Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
AM BARBARIAN wrote:
IF FRIENDSHIP AM ABLE BE RUINED OVER THING LIKE LONGTIME PATHFINDER PROBLEM COMING TO HEAD BECAUSE OTHER PARTY AM BEING GIANT JERKFACE, AM PROBABLY NOT MUCH OF FRIENDSHIP IN FIRST PLACE.

Am true.


Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Evil is not allowed in anything that I GM.


It isn't just Pathfinder this applies to, we have tried Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, Dark Heresy, Shadowrun, Call Of Cthulhu.

Every character he makes is near identical, if they aren't slinging spells they are all selfish, rules lawyering power gaming types who look to break the system.

I've both ran and played games with him with other groups too, they opted for the "carrot on a stick" approach, as long as he had a carrot he behaved to some extent and that method still works here for a time - but he frequently gets the stick when he gets out of line, and since his recent power trip (his prestige class) and some strong items he's acquired he's gotten a head full of steam.

We played happily and still do play happily with smaller groups, he's a longtime friend of people in the group I'm in and they're all trying to handle him in different ways. The consensus is they want him to learn some lessons and grow otherwise he won't change on his own; that's the idea here.

We even tried playing an all evil campaign once and his character worked up the others even then (he was the only chaotic evil player) so that stopped abruptly.

It isn't that the game is more important to me than anything else, I just wondered if anyone had any good advice or alternatives besides the obvious (I've considered kicking him out but then nothing will change doing that, he's been kicked multiple times in other groups and he's the same). He's been playing for a long time since the days of AD&D 2nd Edition, he's deeply entrenched in what he likes and he can't deviate from that (we even bet him he couldn't play a Paladin at one point and he tried, only to make the Paladin turn evil eventually)


If he hasn't changed, and doesn't change, then continue not playing with him.

He's had his chance to learn. He's had multiple chances to learn.

Get him outta there.

Sovereign Court

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He has been kicked out of multiple groups and hasn't changed?

Why do you think that you will be successful? There is no reason to think this. I think that booting him has a better chance...after giving an ultimatum, change how you play or don't come back.

Your options are to kick him or let him do as he wishes.

Sovereign Court

So far the majority of the posters here have given you the same advice. You came looking for advice and have been given it.

Either heed it or play a game that you are frustrated with due to one snowflake.


'I'm just playing my character' is another way for them to say 'I'm a disruptive a$$hat' IMO.

If you put a ban on evil PCs they'll play a Chaotic Neutral and the problem will still be there.

Remove the disruptive player.


Yeah but sometimes these threads can be cathartic to the OP. I mean most of us have been here before. There's always that one person who want's to be the CE or CN, greedy, selfish, backstabby, type character. Eventually most of them grow up and realize that it's far more fun to play amid the group and enhance each others fun than to play in an adversarial way.

To the OP, that's all you can do is try to be patient and then if that fails, cut your losses. Otherwise you're effectively punishing yourself.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeahhhhhhh, dealing with this guy sounds exhausting. You asked if there are any good alternatives besides the obvious, but after your elaboration, I really don't think so. If he's done this with multiple groups, in multiple circumstances...he's not gonna change. Definitely not if everyone just keeps putting up with it.

I know options are limited sometimes, but try recruiting another player or two.


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ID-TheDemonOfElru wrote:

It isn't just Pathfinder this applies to, we have tried Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, Dark Heresy, Shadowrun, Call Of Cthulhu.

Every character he makes is near identical, if they aren't slinging spells they are all selfish, rules lawyering power gaming types who look to break the system.

Remember, you cant solve a OOC problem with IC solutions. You have to sit down with him and explain that D&D is a Game and Games should be Fun- even for the DM. And youre not having fun with him playing like that.

So, tell him "No Evils', and have him bring in a new PC. Then tell him acting up will have him sitting out.


The player and their character is doing more harm than good here. Let them know their choices are to clean up their act or stop coming to the game.

If getting a replacement player isn't a viable option, you can always build a DMPC to pick up the slack.


Gotta be dealt with OOC, and if the player has already had multiple warnings, then politely disinvite them. They had their chance.

EDIT: Oh, and if the issue is that your group is too small, go recruit a whole new player! Find some likely newbie and train them up proper rather than continuing to suffer through this disrespectful ninny's antics.

Grand Lodge

I haven't played Pathfinder long, but what I did in D&D when I had this issue, is to tell the player to GM for a campaign because I need a break from my side of the table. If they are a rules jockey and want to be evil, here is a whole dungeon. Play is slow at first, but if you want to show this person how to play, then really show them how to play. Maybe they are a bad player because they should be a GM. I have seen that before.

If you are worried about the size, then try Pathfinder Society to recruit people for home games. That usually works well.
Plus it may give the rest of the group a breath of fresh air.

If this doesn't work, then see if the rest of the group is willing to go evil. The party can be evil, just they all need to be on the same level. Now the characters fear paladins and rangers hunting them down. It changes the angle of the story and makes the evil actions just within bounds for the rest of the team. Maybe they could even start to internally fight from time to time because evil is rarely unified.


Chess Pwn wrote:

"he has made it very clear it's chaotic evil priestess or nothing"

Then tell him it's nothing. Seriously, this is SUPER common manipulation tactic of doing an all or nothing deal. Tell him that unless he's willing to play a good person he will not play via the evil or nothing option. Once he sticks to evil, kick him out. Try hard to find new players or go towards online.

cause all you say just confirms that he's not able to play evil responsibly, doesn't work with party, and feel personally attacked when the party responds appropriately in game to his antics.

If he wants to play then he'll come back and accept not being evil. If he doesn't you're better off not having someone that ruins the fun.

I pretty much agree with Chess Pwn.

He sounds like he is faithfully roleplaying his character, but he is doing things that make him completely incompatible with the other PCs and with the other players, were I there, with me.

I have an alternative to kicking him out of the group to suggest: how about you float the idea that the whole party be evil? I don't think you should impose this on them: if they don't all want to be evil, and he's drawn a line in the sand, then build a fence where he drew the line and keep him out. But if the rest of the party just happens to think it would be fun to be evil, too, then that problem is solved. And it will give the other players to take gruesome revenge on your problem child.

Another possibility would be to make it known that you are now allowing PC on PC violence. Then if your problem player steps over the line again, the rest of the party can just kill him. You seem to keep letting him back in after you keep kicking him out. You must like him personally for reasons you haven't disclosed. Maybe the experience of getting killed a lot by his own party will teach him to try either being good or being more subtle in his villany. Or maybe it will get him to leave your gaming groups once and for all.


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Just to weigh in on the Evil is banned thing.

I don't ban evil but I seriously want players to justify their character and explain them Chaotic evil and what their motivations will be. I'm less concerned with neutral evil and not really at all with Lawful Evil so long as they have a good grasp of what it means to be LE.


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Just because you're chaotic evil doesn't mean you should be an ass to your friends. There are an infinite number of ways to play it. Maybe they just actually like the team mates. Evil has people they respect and care about. Nothing wrong with that.

Just have them get their rush from killing enemies Order of the stick style. The paladin rationalized that left to their own devices they would do horrible things, and they can at least be channeled for good. The priestess has to play with the others, or the would be no poor in adventuring with them.

Also, just playing their character isn't an excuse, because THEY MADE THE CHARACTER.


"The group is heavily good except for the Tiefling player who regardless of any game has to play the most evil characters around (they will not play even neutral characters)"

This in and of itself sets off severe red flags, and I would probably boot someone over this alone after interrogating it a bit ("really, you can't conceive of *any* non-evil person it would be interesting to play as?"), I really wonder what this player would do in a different game system that treats morality differently.

But generally I don't think one should allow evil PCs outside of the hands of experienced and talented RPers who have shown they can be trusted to not be disruptive, and who come armed with strong, interesting concepts. "You can play evil characters" is a privilege that the GM should feel free to rescind.

I think though they might benefit as a human being after a clear and thorough takedown of the "I'm just playing my character" defense, lest they go through life thinking things in fictional worlds are the way they are for reasons other than "somebody wanted it like that, or at least thought whatever was okay."


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I wouldn't put any further work into accommodating him.

Rather, I'd put that work into persuading the others that a group of 3 PCs is fine (better than a group of 3 PCs and another character detracting from the group).

Then I'd offer him a chance to play a good/cooperative PC and when he walked, move on with the three good players. Providing they're willing to give it a shot, I suspect the small group issue will be mitigated by the not-being-continually-sabotaged benefit of his leaving.


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From where I sit it looks like two choices. Boot the problem player, or lose your game.


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Stop. Playing. With. This. Person.

If that means your entire group falls apart and you don't game at all, then celebrate. Why? Because no gaming is better than bad gaming.

Get another hobby. Get more friends. Play with fewer people. Stop playing. Do anything but keep this person around.

That's the solution. There isn't another one. The person isn't going to be reformed. They've made it clear that they are willing to stop gaming, so they have the power. All you can do is call the bluff and move on.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I don't really share the "no gaming is better than bad gaming" philosophy. (Unless you define bad gaming tautologically as a game you'd rather not play in).

I've definitely played in what I consider "bad" games for a variety of reasons (mostly revolving around out-of-game issues). As a general rule, I'd be leery of ruling out compromise and since everyone defines bad gaming differently, I think such a stance could mean you miss out unnecessarily.

In this specific situation it sounds to me like you've tried to compromise and he's not having a bar of it. I think you have other options, since a 3 PC game is definitely do-able. As such, I think you should put your energy into making those work.

However, if the rest of you are still getting something out of the game despite his disruptiveness (and you have put up with a lot it seems!), there's nothing wrong with preferring a poor game to doing something else, imo.

Grand Lodge

You can always just let the guy continue to be a total douche, and stop nerfing the consequences of his actions. Once he gets the party killed a couple times and everyone has to start over, the problem will likely fix itself...either through the other players telling him to knock it off or quit playing.

Next time he pisses off a god, have that god smite him in a column of fire...they do have that ability, or just have the god show up and lay the smack down on him (Nothing says knock that s~#* off like a CR 30+ deity coming down to show you why you should not mess with them). Or have a particularly lethal assassin pay his character a visit after he pisses of some rich and influential NPC.

I have been an RPG player for 35+ years, and I have developed a very low tolerance for disruptive players. 3 strikes (if I am feeling generous) and you are gone, even if that means ending the campaign completely.


You could do the whole 'rocks fall you die thing', as suggested. Or you could be a bit more passive aggressive and make a deal with the other players that all actions of this problem player are ignored. Let him roll to hit and roll for damage, but it does nothing. He can talk to NPCs, but they ignore him. If he attacks them, nothing happens.

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