Advice about a problem player...


Advice

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The first problem was allowing him to dictate terms as he did. I'm playing A and you have to accept it. No, no I don't and no GM should either. The second is allowing him to continue dictating terms. He demands he be allowed to continue his crap even after several in and out of game discussions. Why? Because he wants to have fun regardless if anyone else is. No, it doesn't work like that. It's obvious when told to play nice the guy gets worse. The obvious solution is boot him and don't ever invite him back. The guy is toxic let him be toxic elsewhere. If life were fair he'd end up being toxic all alone.


just get rid of the bad player

Silver Crusade

well if you don't want to kick him, which is the best choice, you should simply try how my fiance does. Tell them, okay but I am not going to force my players to metagame. I've only played evil once (cleric of Zon Kuthon)... they scared me and I quickly changed them.

But they really do sound like a problem.


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Lady-J wrote:
again it entirely depends on the type of vampire

I feel like it's reasonable for the pirate captain to have preconceived notions about how Vampires are, and to make decisions based on these perceptions, even if they are completely erroneous. Thereby shutting down the "Vampirism: is it right for you?" discussion before you even get into the sales pitch.

If everybody in your fictional world is an expert on every kind of magical creature you could name, that would be a little bit strange, wouldn't it?


Derek Dalton wrote:
The first problem was allowing him to dictate terms as he did. I'm playing A and you have to accept it. No, no I don't and no GM should either. The second is allowing him to continue dictating terms. He demands he be allowed to continue his crap even after several in and out of game discussions. Why? Because he wants to have fun regardless if anyone else is. No, it doesn't work like that. It's obvious when told to play nice the guy gets worse. The obvious solution is boot him and don't ever invite him back. The guy is toxic let him be toxic elsewhere. If life were fair he'd end up being toxic all alone.
Mystic_Snowfang wrote:

well if you don't want to kick him, which is the best choice, you should simply try how my fiance does. Tell them, okay but I am not going to force my players to metagame. I've only played evil once (cleric of Zon Kuthon)... they scared me and I quickly changed them.

But they really do sound like a problem.

While easy to say, this isn't always easy to do, if some players are only there because he/she is and/or if you are playing at his/her/their place, expect said player to go on a power trip most of the time, same if they are the bully type.

@Rhedyn, You are in the wrong thread for doing any tl;dr.


You have read pretty thoroughly to get past the presenter bias and notice how the story changes from post to post. Ignoring the bias isn't the same as not reading.

It is immature to let this stuff build up and then blow up on something minor like a disgruntled sitcom wife.

And it's on everyone in the group for not solving this problem in character and having the head to head way sooner back when you were in the right rather than waiting until something minor happened and then freaking out.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The pirate captain tasked the party with lifting a curse from a friend. Said curse made the friend basically undead. The party lifts the curse, only to have the troublesome character make an offer to the captain to return the friend to a state of undeath. As far as I'm concerned any negative reaction from the pirate captain would have been appropriate and foreseeable by a halfway intelligent character, up to and including attacking the troublesome character.

Regarding the player in general: I know this situation has been resolved, but for future players with a similarly selfish mindset any self-respecting GM should drop them for the good of the group if they continue such behavior after one warning. Anything else is enabling their behavior and it will continue indefinitely, especially if they've done this in multiple other groups.


Fumarole wrote:
The pirate captain tasked the party with lifting a curse from a friend. Said curse made the friend basically undead. The party lifts the curse, only to have the troublesome character make an offer to the captain to return the friend to a state of undeath. As far as I'm concerned any negative reaction from the pirate captain would have been appropriate and foreseeable by a halfway intelligent character, up to and including attacking the troublesome character.

That's psychotic.

Party saves someone you consider like a mother from a terrible curse but leaves her horrifically aged.

Loose associate of party (she didn't help lift the curse) offers to fix the condition.

You respond by withdrawing your reward from the people who did help you because they associate with this person who offered to fix your new problem in a way you didn't like.

You then make said person grovel before you so that the heroes and this person you don't like get free transport. But you would have killed her if it wasn't for the actions of her associates.

Pirate captain sounds like a complete loon.


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If I were a conspiracy man, I'd start to think Rhedyn was the player in question.

Anyway to the OP and other player in the thread: Glad it got resolved. I'm sure you'll have a better time moving forward, if everything is as you've stated.


Lady Platypus wrote:

3. THE "AN EYE FOR AN EYE": he makes your life (and your players) a living hell? Do the same. Put him against impossible odds. Get him constantly arrested by guards, spending time in jail while the party can play through town; have him contract a very rare disease with an impossible saving throw, something that hits his most important stats; have him cursed by a deity, so that he has to re-roll any successful attack or skill check; do stuff like that, making the game terrible for him unless he changes behaviour. He starts behaving? Good! His reputation will go up, so won't be constantly arrested. Maybe he finds the cure. Maybe the deity lifts the curse because he repents.

5. THE "BYE BYE": he causes troubles, but without big consequences. Next time, have the consequences be so massive that the party's only choice is to leave him behind. If the party actually hates how he behaves, they won't go towards sure death if they can simply abandon him. Take your deity example: the god himself could have intervened, forcing the party to either fight the divine, or let the god smite their "friend".

Most of the time, such a player acts up to get more attention. Both of these 'solutions" reward such a problem player.

This is why we say time after time- you cant solve a OOC issue IC.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Fix the condition? By turning her into a vampire? Turning her into a blood-sucking freak isn't a fix. I think you have some very bizarre assumptions working on your reading of this situation.

Why is a vampire eternally youthful? I don't see any reason to assume that's true. Generally more attractive than when alive (if a bit feral) but if the woman was aged, wouldn't you expect her to be an aged vampire?

The pirate wasn't at all psychotic. Offering to turn a mother-figure into a vampire and summon a contract devil to sell her soul as well is pretty over the top and deranged. Most people who actually believe in an afterlife aren't going to be too keen to consign loved ones to eternal damnation when the inevitable happens and they die (or in this case, are destroyed by someone). Even in literature, where things like that do happen, it's usually a sign of something psychologically wrong with the person making the deal.


I would like to weigh in to say I don't think becoming a Vampire makes you look young if you look old already. Dracula didn't look particularly young :P


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Rhedyn wrote:
Pirate captain sounds like a complete loon.

Maybe he was just playing his alignment. ;)


Lostcause78 wrote:
If I were a conspiracy man, I'd start to think Rhedyn was the player in question.

You're fake news!

/devils advocate off

Guy sounded like a t+&% but I hate one sided internet hate parties. I've played many of evil character before, but I have two rules:

1. The party is your ally.

2. You know right from wrong. You are not ignorantly evil.

I've never had a problem like in the op. It behooves the evil character to metagame a bit rather than ask the party to make up reasons to adventure with you. Evil characters who don't know what they are doing should be dead long before they ever enter the party. Stupid evil is for wild monster. CE characters are great for messing with everyone's sense of right or wrong.
I had one evil character run around fabricating homeless shelters and working fields with constructs that he knew would one day fall to ruin after attracting a large unsustainable population to rapidly go hungry and homeless for a small town. He didn't make any effort to teach farming skills so no one complained about him taking care of the poor or leaving to "save the world" but the town was then ravaged by a hungry mob.
Adventuring is great for CE characters. You get to commit genocide (goblins) for little reason and people pay/love you for it.


Rhedyn wrote:
Lostcause78 wrote:
If I were a conspiracy man, I'd start to think Rhedyn was the player in question.

You're fake news!

/devils advocate off

Guy sounded like a t#~~ but I hate one sided internet hate parties. I've played many of evil character before, but I have two rules:

1. The party is your ally.

2. You know right from wrong. You are not ignorantly evil.

I've never had a problem like in the op. It behooves the evil character to metagame a bit rather than ask the party to make up reasons to adventure with you. Evil characters who don't know what they are doing should be dead long before they ever enter the party. Stupid evil is for wild monster. CE characters are great for messing with everyone's sense of right or wrong.
I had one evil character run around fabricating homeless shelters and working fields with constructs that he knew would one day fall to ruin after attracting a large unsustainable population to rapidly go hungry and homeless for a small town. He didn't make any effort to teach farming skills so no one complained about him taking care of the poor or leaving to "save the world" but the town was then ravaged by a hungry mob.
Adventuring is great for CE characters. You get to commit genocide (goblins) for little reason and people pay/love you for it.

Sounded like neither the player nor his PCs knew those rules, and TC mentioned previous DM/GM/ST let the player do that, so the player came to see that as "normal". There could be mental illnesses involved, but this isn't a place for that kind of discussion.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Rhedyn wrote:

Guy sounded like a t%~# but I hate one sided internet hate parties. I've played many of evil character before, but I have two rules:

1. The party is your ally.

2. You know right from wrong. You are not ignorantly evil.

Yeah, well those are your internal rules for playing an evil character who isn't going to get himself rightfully ganked by the rest of the party. But despite repeated attempts to play with this problem player, he's never developed that self-realization.


Reading through the descriptions of the problem player, one word comes to my mind: Narcissism

If you encounter such a person, don't try to reason with them too much and don't expect 'normal' behaviour in general. They are not pleasant to deal with, but in case you want / have to, make sure to show a good mix of drawing the line but also appreciation. Treat them like dogs: If they do well, be nice to them. But if they act horribly, immediately tell them you don't like it. Since a narcissist wants to be appreciated by all means, both approaches push them into tolerable behaviour.

That might sound dismissive or akwardly manipulative to some. But be assured narcissists are quite manipulative on their own (see the threat 'either evil or I quit'), and just treating them like reasonable persons will lead to frustration on your side. You don't have to regulate them all the time, but once or twice per session is a common thing.


Rhedyn wrote:


Loose associate of party (she didn't help lift the curse) offers to fix the condition.

You respond by withdrawing your reward from the people who did help you because they associate with this person who offered to fix your new problem in a way you didn't like.

1. They're pirates. They're not exactly known as the most trustworthy group on the planet.

2. Even pirates, with their loose interpretation of morals, don't necessarily want their mother figures turned into cannibalistic soulless serial killers... Okay, I'm sure some do, but they're probably not on good terms with their mom in the first place so that's a moot point.

3. If someone offers to do that your loved ones, it either means they're full of crap and dangerously delusional, or they're capable of doing it which makes them extraordinarily dangerous and not someone you want around. (i.e. who's to say it won't be done to you non-consensually for the lolz...)

Either way, dealing with a pirate captain, the PCs should be happy they didn't get forced to walk the plank in freshly chummed water because they were too big a threat to the crew.

"You then make said person grovel before you..."
Pirate in a position of power... it really shouldn't be a surprise that they'd enjoy someone begging for their life. It's kind of their thing. They're pirates.

(And that ignores that the person offering to fix the "problem" basically offered to do it in a pretty terrible fashion.)

Quote:
Pirate captain sounds like a complete loon.

Pirate captains tend to get a lot of latitude in what's normal for them... and that's ignoring the whole, I'll turn your mom into a vampire for the price of her soul.

That's not the sort of offer you just casually drop in someone's lap and hope for the best with. You have to work your way up to that sort of thing.


I for one am glad that the OP's situation has been resolved naturally and that all the other players are on-board with them. Over the top? Honestly the captains reaction was incredibly reasonable given what the evil character attempted to suggest they do.


I've read a few posts regarding the problem player where people seem almost defending him. Why? The pirate problem had been resolved. Then the problem player decided to add his two cents worth without considering the possible consequences. He didn't need to do anything yet he did. He didn't care if he screwed up or not. He just wanted to be involved in everything making his character to be the center of the universe.
The GM and party may have handled it a bit poorly. Me I'd have the pirate demand his head and call it even. New character with the hard rule no Chaotic stupid screw you. He doesn't like it walk. Consider the fact this was after supposedly getting the message his crap won't be tolerated. Yet he showed no message not received or I still don't care what anyone else thinks since it's all about me.

Grand Lodge

Demons, Devils, and Undead are all pretty much universally hated in most game worlds by anyone who is not either A.) Utterly evil B.) Completely insane or C.) Both.

An offer like the player made to the pirate captain would likely end up getting you imprisoned, killed, or imprisoned then killed just about anywhere in Golarion.

Even the Chelish, who work with devils still don't like the undead.


I find it amusing that the person saying the pirate went over the top also said the pirate should have killed the problem player.

Not killing people is going over the top now?

The rest of the party still got their ride after making it clear to the pirate they weren't in on the bad behavior, so they didn't suffer any punishment, and the problem player bore the brunt of their actions. This is over the top?

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