Does the Swashbuckler class have interesting builds?

[The Pale King]

Looking it over it has very few archetypes and not that many choices when building one. I have also seen very few threads on Swashbuckler builds compared to many other classes. It almost seems to me if you want to build a 'swashbuckler' that is more customizable you go Daring Champion or Unchained Rogue.

[avr]

Many similar classes can perform the same role, and as written it's a bit specialised. Still, mouser swashbuckler's a cornerstone of most variations of the Songbird of Doom, a level dip in swashbuckler (esp. inspired blade) is common to many investigators or eldritch knight-type spellcasters who want a little melee ability, and stacking luck/grit/panache from sleuth, mysterious stranger & swashbuckler isn't a terrible idea.

[swoosh]

Like the cavalier, monk and gunslinger if you include archetypes there are some fun things you can do with the class, but in the absence of that it heavily lends itself to 'one (maybe two) true build' syndrome, which is simply an inevitable effect of building an entire class around one trick.

[PossibleCabbage]

I've been thinking for a bit if there's a way to make the Rondelero Swashbuckler work with upsetting shield style by full-attacking with your shield and then making a bunch of AoOs with your Falcata.

I *think* "I am holding a buckler and a falcata, and I whack you with the shield and only the shield" satisfies "a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler" so you'd get precise strike damage. I'm not sure whether you could riposte or otherwise AoO with the Falcata and get precise strike damage.

[Sindenky]

From what I have seen its less in the build, and more in the style of play. I have a swashbuckler right now I'm in love with. I'm using elven battle style and actively triggering AoO in order to combo punish my opponents.

I pull off a 2-3 attack combo on one creature, on their turn at level 4.

[avr]

A flying blade archetype swashbuckler with Desna's divine fighting technique is a case of a martial SAD character. Panache, charmed life, attack & damage all come off charisma. Not that it's particularly powerful but it is unusual.

[666bender]

avr wrote:

A flying blade archetype swashbuckler with Desna's divine fighting technique is a case of a martial SAD character. Panache, charmed life, attack & damage all come off charisma. Not that it's particularly powerful but it is unusual.

You aren't SAD at all, how get you get to. The min level 11 needed ?

[Arcaian]

666bender wrote:

avr wrote:

A flying blade archetype swashbuckler with Desna's divine fighting technique is a case of a martial SAD character. Panache, charmed life, attack & damage all come off charisma. Not that it's particularly powerful but it is unusual.

You aren't SAD at all, how get you get to. The min level 11 needed ?

That all comes online at level 2 at the latest? Way of the Shooting Star just needs to be CG, you get CHA to attack and damage, level 1 swashbuckler gives you panache, and level 2 swashbuckler gives you charmed life.

Can be combined with 1 level in a Battle oracle and the Noble Scion feat to get CHA to AC, CMD and initiative.

[avr]

666bender wrote:

avr wrote:

A flying blade archetype swashbuckler with Desna's divine fighting technique is a case of a martial SAD character. Panache, charmed life, attack & damage all come off charisma. Not that it's particularly powerful but it is unusual.

You aren't SAD at all, how get you get to. The min level 11 needed ?

You've mistaken the initial benefit - which you get for the cost of a feat with no prereqs - for the advanced benefit, which has a bunch of prereqs. You can take the Divine Fighting Technique feat at first level, assuming you worship Desna.

[Trojan Flumph]

My favorite Swashbuckler build is Inspired Blade 1/Magus19...

[Ryan Freire]

Swashbuckler and gunslinger both suffer from really only being worth a damn up to level 5. Swashbuckler for early access to Improved Critical, and gunslinger for dex to damage.

Like even if you're aiming to be that kind of character til the end I cant imagine why every level from 6 on wouldn't be brawler.

[Sundakan]

Why Brawler? Most of the fancy stuff from Brawler is locked to Close weapons. If you just want Martial Flexibility, play a Martial Master.

Maybe Swashbuckler needs a Prestige Class like Shieldmarshal that is just class + interesting abilities.

[My Self]

Swashbuckler's main points of interest are that it...
-is a full martial
-wears light armor
--bonus cool points for being a full martial with light armor, only shared with the Gunslinger
-4+INT skills
-is CHA-dependent
--has no alignment restrictions, unlike the Paladin
-supports critical builds
-supports DEX builds
-supports one-handed melee weapon builds
--by extension, supports throwing builds
-supports moderate feat builds
-has panache
--not limited by uses/day
--does cooler things than Rogue or Fighter
-preferred range is ≤ 30 ft.
-most class features do not scale when multiclassing

This is opposed to, say, Fighter, which...
-is a full martial
-wears heavy armor
-basically no skills
-has no class feature stat dependency
--I mean, hitting people requires a stat, but there are no class features which are stat-to-something
-supports weapon-specific builds
-supports feat-heavy builds
--has feats
--lots of feats
--feeeaaaaaats
--feats feats feats
-preferred range is weapon range
-most class features scale when multiclassing

Or Barbarian:
-is a full martial
-wears medium armor
-4+INT skills
-has minor CON dependency
-supports STR builds
-is AC-independent
-has rage
--limited by uses/day
--versatile and customizable
--does incredible things
-preferred range is STR-based weapon range
-rage scales a little when multiclassing, other things don't

So yeah, you're right, the Swashbuckler is pretty niche compared to other classes. For the Swashbuckler to work, you want DEX to hit and/or damage, a one-handed melee weapon, a broad critical range, and a dash of CHA. For the Fighter to work, you need a roadmap of all the feats you're going to take, but your choice of weapons, stat to hit, secondary stat, etc. are all up to you. Similarly, for Barbarian, none of your mental stats matter more to you than they would a commoner, and you don't need to select a specific handedness of weapon or watch your class features stop working.

[666bender]

swash are fun.
they have many abilities that make them unique (or, grouped with daring champion etc).
one need to be aware of their flows, low fort and will mostly.

i love dipping 2-4 levels out of the class.
for example, swash 5 , than magus 2 can add another attack with spell strike and dervish dance feat, and fix the 2 low saves.

1/2 orc add 2 to saves and entry to skulking slayer rogue, with 1 level in, you get to do sneak attacks as dirty tricks for free. GREAT addition to any melee.

monk 2 will master the low saves and add many things , for examople , master of many styles - can take crane style & another style for a good AC boost and more .

all and all, it's a fun build, OK damage, some debuffs, some intimidate etc. i like it.

[nate lange]

I really like atypical swashbucklers... like a trident wielding 'priest' of Gozreh with good UMD. I also really like a swashbuckler with a 3 level dip in phalanx soldier fighter- with slashing grace you can fight with a buckler and a fauchard (a d10, 18-20 crit reach weapon). And, you don't see many dwarven swashbucklers (because their stat modifiers aren't great for it) but I made a waraxe wielding NPC who was fun.

[Saldiven]

I have a combination Mouser Swashbuckler and Vexing Dodger UnRogue.

Combination allows him to sneak attack any opponent he's climbing on as long as an ally is in melee with that same opponent. Also, that opponent has massive negatives to hit the character climbing on him (he's currently lvl 9, and after a sneak attack hits, the target is at -12 to hit the character). It's pretty awesome for encounters with a small number of opponents, but less so for mob combats.

[Imbicatus]

Arcaian wrote:

666bender wrote:

avr wrote:

A flying blade archetype swashbuckler with Desna's divine fighting technique is a case of a martial SAD character. Panache, charmed life, attack & damage all come off charisma. Not that it's particularly powerful but it is unusual.

You aren't SAD at all, how get you get to. The min level 11 needed ?

That all comes online at level 2 at the latest? Way of the Shooting Star just needs to be CG, you get CHA to attack and damage, level 1 swashbuckler gives you panache, and level 2 swashbuckler gives you charmed life.

Can be combined with 1 level in a Battle oracle and the Noble Scion feat to get CHA to AC, CMD and initiative.

It requires an alignment change, but starting out as a scaled fist monk, and then changing alignment to cg before taking divine fighting technique would allow both cha+dex to AC.

[666bender]

Saldiven wrote:

I have a combination Mouser Swashbuckler and Vexing Dodger UnRogue.

Combination allows him to sneak attack any opponent he's climbing on as long as an ally is in melee with that same opponent. Also, that opponent has massive negatives to hit the character climbing on him (he's currently lvl 9, and after a sneak attack hits, the target is at -12 to hit the character). It's pretty awesome for encounters with a small number of opponents, but less so for mob combats.

Can you link the full build ?

[Torbyne]

As mentioned already, a Flying Blade can be an interesting build. There are a few ways to stretch Charisma out to cover multiple abilities and Flying Blade is well situated to take advantage of some of those.

[Saldiven]

666bender wrote:

Saldiven wrote:

I have a combination Mouser Swashbuckler and Vexing Dodger UnRogue.

Combination allows him to sneak attack any opponent he's climbing on as long as an ally is in melee with that same opponent. Also, that opponent has massive negatives to hit the character climbing on him (he's currently lvl 9, and after a sneak attack hits, the target is at -12 to hit the character). It's pretty awesome for encounters with a small number of opponents, but less so for mob combats.

Can you link the full build ?

I don't have it anywhere online, but I can give the gist.

It's one level of Mouser. The entire purpose is that Mouser says that while you're in the opponent's square, you count as flanking as long as an ally is adjacent to that foe. The rest is Vexing Dodger Unchained Rogue. This allows you to climb onto foes that are at least one size larger than the character. Our group has ruled (since the rules don't say either way) that while you're climbing on a foe, you're in one of their squares.

I'm playing as a Goblin for the small size (allowing for climbing on medium or larger opponents) and the big dex bonus. Also, the thought of a crazed goblin climbing all over a target flailing away with a dagger is kind of funny.

Feats are to taste. I think from memory, he has Weapon Focus: Dagger, Deific Obedience: Pharasma, Branch Pounce (for lulz), and some others. At lvl 9, his to hit bonus with his dagger is +17 unbuffed, and he does d3 + 10 + sneak attack dice on a hit.

[Rosc]

I've been toying with a high Strength build that dumps Charisma and uses a combination of spiked gauntlets and a greataxe. The axe is used with your classic 2handed power attack damage, and I can always swap to holding it with one hand at the end of my turn. This allows me to parry by PUNCHING SWORDS OUT OF MY WAY.

Strength means my damage never falls off when I'm facing something immune to crits, making the spiked gauntlets out of various metals means I golfbag with the best of them, Sacred Tattoo Half Orc mitigates the awful base saves, and Extra Panache means I can dump Cha and have a better pointbuy. Hell, the spiked gauntlets still get precision damage, so they'll hit pretty hard.

This arguably works better as a Brawler with a Swashbuckler dip for Parry, but what fun is that? I much prefer to go atypical and have a chuckle at the class' design.

[666bender]

Saldiven wrote:

666bender wrote:

Saldiven wrote:

I have a combination Mouser Swashbuckler and Vexing Dodger UnRogue.

Combination allows him to sneak attack any opponent he's climbing on as long as an ally is in melee with that same opponent. Also, that opponent has massive negatives to hit the character climbing on him (he's currently lvl 9, and after a sneak attack hits, the target is at -12 to hit the character). It's pretty awesome for encounters with a small number of opponents, but less so for mob combats.

Can you link the full build ?

I don't have it anywhere online, but I can give the gist.

It's one level of Mouser. The entire purpose is that Mouser says that while you're in the opponent's square, you count as flanking as long as an ally is adjacent to that foe. The rest is Vexing Dodger Unchained Rogue. This allows you to climb onto foes that are at least one size larger than the character. Our group has ruled (since the rules don't say either way) that while you're climbing on a foe, you're in one of their squares.

I'm playing as a Goblin for the small size (allowing for climbing on medium or larger opponents) and the big dex bonus. Also, the thought of a crazed goblin climbing all over a target flailing away with a dagger is kind of funny.

Feats are to taste. I think from memory, he has Weapon Focus: Dagger, Deific Obedience: Pharasma, Branch Pounce (for lulz), and some others. At lvl 9, his to hit bonus with his dagger is +17 unbuffed, and he does d3 + 10 + sneak attack dice on a hit.

but, where is the -12 to hit the character comes from ?

[My Self]

-4 from Mouser's deeds, being in the same square. -2 to general AC from the Bewildered Debilitating Injury, -2 for self-specific Bewildering Injury. Offensive Defense Rogue Talent gives +1 AC per Sneak Attack die against the target, which, as an 8th level Rogue, would be 4d6, or +4 AC. Totals up to about +12 effective AC vs that target.

[666bender]

My Self wrote:

-4 from Mouser's deeds, being in the same square. -2 to general AC from the Bewildered Debilitating Injury, -2 for self-specific Bewildering Injury. Offensive Defense Rogue Talent gives +1 AC per Sneak Attack die against the target, which, as an 8th level Rogue, would be 4d6, or +4 AC. Totals up to about +12 effective AC vs that target.

sadly for you, Unchained Rogue CANT take Offensive Defense.... it's off the list.

and "While the mouser is within her foe's space, the foe takes a –4 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks not made against the mouser,"
the -4 is ONLY Vs OTHERS.

[666bender]

666bender wrote:

My Self wrote:

-4 from Mouser's deeds, being in the same square. -2 to general AC from the Bewildered Debilitating Injury, -2 for self-specific Bewildering Injury. Offensive Defense Rogue Talent gives +1 AC per Sneak Attack die against the target, which, as an 8th level Rogue, would be 4d6, or +4 AC. Totals up to about +12 effective AC vs that target.

sadly for you, Unchained Rogue CANT take Offensive Defense.... it's off the list.

and "While the mouser is within her foe's space, the foe takes a –4 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks not made against the mouser,"
the -4 is ONLY Vs OTHERS.

but it's a great concept never the less.

[Ryan Freire]

Sundakan wrote:

Why Brawler? Most of the fancy stuff from Brawler is locked to Close weapons. If you just want Martial Flexibility, play a Martial Master.

Maybe Swashbuckler needs a Prestige Class like Shieldmarshal that is just class + interesting abilities.

Because every good swashbuckler or gunslinger needs to know how to use their fists and martial master wont come online for 5 more levels. You get nothing but 1 more feat in 5 levels of martial master whereas in brawler you get an AC bonus, a potential save or suck attack, and magic fists. 1 level after martial master finally gets flexibility you're getting swift action feats or 2 at a time by choosing brawler. At this point you're level 10 or 11 and most campaigns are in their end stages anyway so you want the flexibility to ramp up as quickly as possible.

[Ventnor]

Imbicatus wrote:

Arcaian wrote:

666bender wrote:

avr wrote:

A flying blade archetype swashbuckler with Desna's divine fighting technique is a case of a martial SAD character. Panache, charmed life, attack & damage all come off charisma. Not that it's particularly powerful but it is unusual.

You aren't SAD at all, how get you get to. The min level 11 needed ?

That all comes online at level 2 at the latest? Way of the Shooting Star just needs to be CG, you get CHA to attack and damage, level 1 swashbuckler gives you panache, and level 2 swashbuckler gives you charmed life.

Can be combined with 1 level in a Battle oracle and the Noble Scion feat to get CHA to AC, CMD and initiative.

It requires an alignment change, but starting out as a scaled fist monk, and then changing alignment to cg before taking divine fighting technique would allow both cha+dex to AC.

Oracles don't have any alignment requirements, and several mysteries have a revelation that lets you have CHA to AC & reflex saves.

[Hmm]

Ooh, divine fighting technique is very interesting! Thanks for pointing that one out!

Hmm

[Natural 1s]

I have prepared halfling inspired blade dipping in investigator/sleuth (expanding opportunities to renew panache) and gunslinger/bolt ace (till 5th level and bonus to damage). She has also parraot which will become sage familiar and won't shut his mouth :)

[Imbicatus]

Ventnor wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

Arcaian wrote:

666bender wrote:

avr wrote:

A flying blade archetype swashbuckler with Desna's divine fighting technique is a case of a martial SAD character. Panache, charmed life, attack & damage all come off charisma. Not that it's particularly powerful but it is unusual.

You aren't SAD at all, how get you get to. The min level 11 needed ?

That all comes online at level 2 at the latest? Way of the Shooting Star just needs to be CG, you get CHA to attack and damage, level 1 swashbuckler gives you panache, and level 2 swashbuckler gives you charmed life.

Can be combined with 1 level in a Battle oracle and the Noble Scion feat to get CHA to AC, CMD and initiative.

It requires an alignment change, but starting out as a scaled fist monk, and then changing alignment to cg before taking divine fighting technique would allow both cha+dex to AC.

Oracles don't have any alignment requirements, and several mysteries have a revelation that lets you have CHA to AC & reflex saves.

Yes, but they are all cha to AC instead of dex. Scaled Fist allows both CHA and Dex.

[Ventnor]

Ryan Freire wrote:

Sundakan wrote:

Why Brawler? Most of the fancy stuff from Brawler is locked to Close weapons. If you just want Martial Flexibility, play a Martial Master.

Maybe Swashbuckler needs a Prestige Class like Shieldmarshal that is just class + interesting abilities.

Because every good swashbuckler or gunslinger needs to know how to use their fists and martial master wont come online for 5 more levels. You get nothing but 1 more feat in 5 levels of martial master whereas in brawler you get an AC bonus, a potential save or suck attack, and magic fists. 1 level after martial master finally gets flexibility you're getting swift action feats or 2 at a time by choosing brawler. At this point you're level 10 or 11 and most campaigns are in their end stages anyway so you want the flexibility to ramp up as quickly as possible.

Not to mention, if you're not a fan of close weapons, you can trade in your close weapon-themed abilities for some helpful bardic performance features with the Exemplar Archetype.

[Ventnor]

Imbicatus wrote:

Ventnor wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

Arcaian wrote:

666bender wrote:

avr wrote:

A flying blade archetype swashbuckler with Desna's divine fighting technique is a case of a martial SAD character. Panache, charmed life, attack & damage all come off charisma. Not that it's particularly powerful but it is unusual.

You aren't SAD at all, how get you get to. The min level 11 needed ?

That all comes online at level 2 at the latest? Way of the Shooting Star just needs to be CG, you get CHA to attack and damage, level 1 swashbuckler gives you panache, and level 2 swashbuckler gives you charmed life.

Can be combined with 1 level in a Battle oracle and the Noble Scion feat to get CHA to AC, CMD and initiative.

It requires an alignment change, but starting out as a scaled fist monk, and then changing alignment to cg before taking divine fighting technique would allow both cha+dex to AC.

Oracles don't have any alignment requirements, and several mysteries have a revelation that lets you have CHA to AC & reflex saves.

Yes, but they are all cha to AC instead of dex. Scaled Fist allows both CHA and Dex.

You also have to forgo wearing armor.

The Oracle route lets you dump decterity entirely, something that very few characters can pull of without serious negative side effects.

[Chess Pwn]

but doesn't the swashbuckler want dex and combat reflexes?

[lemeres]

I view dex as a secondary concern (it is dex friendly, but not dex reliant; it actually reduces most areas that are the benefit of dex classes, such as having reflex as its good save). I view it largely as a platform for salvaging a few styles: 1 handed/1 weapon, nonTWF sword and board, and throwing builds.

Past that, it is a melee class with good AC (not solely due to dex; it gets scaling bonus to make up for light armor, and can use sword and board). And....has 4 skill points and social skills as class skills?

Yeah, you aren't getting too much past your style. It does the styles well, and it is great if you want a rapier user or a dagger thrower.... but yes- minimal deviation.

[Saldiven]

666bender wrote:

but, where is the -12 to hit the character comes from ?

Oh, that's what you wanted.

First, from Mouser, starting at level 1, if you are in an enemy's square, that enemy takes a -4 to hit penalty (untyped) on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks against the Mouser.

Then, from Vexing Dodger, if you are climbing an opponent, that opponent takes a penalty (untyped) equal to the number of Sneak Attack dice the rogue has to attacks made against the Vexing Dodger.

Lastly, from Unchained Rogue is the Debilitating Injury modifier after hitting with Sneak Attack. After hitting a target with a Sneak Attack, you can choose the "Disoriented" effect, which results in a -4 to hit penalty against the rogue.

The character is Mouser 1/Vexing Dodger 8. He has 4 sneak attack dice. So, it's -4 from Mouser, -4 from 'Dodger, and -4 from Disoriented.

What's fun is that this is in a party that has an Intimidate build Inquisitor with a Cruel weapon and the Inflict Pain spell. There have been times when everything has been stacked on a boss, that boss has a -20 to hit the goblin climbing all over him :P

[666bender]

Saldiven wrote:

666bender wrote:

but, where is the -12 to hit the character comes from ?

Oh, that's what you wanted.

First, from Mouser, starting at level 1, if you are in an enemy's square, that enemy takes a -4 to hit penalty (untyped) on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks against the Mouser.

Then, from Vexing Dodger, if you are climbing an opponent, that opponent takes a penalty (untyped) equal to the number of Sneak Attack dice the rogue has to attacks made against the Vexing Dodger.

Lastly, from Unchained Rogue is the Debilitating Injury modifier after hitting with Sneak Attack. After hitting a target with a Sneak Attack, you can choose the "Disoriented" effect, which results in a -4 to hit penalty against the rogue.

The character is Mouser 1/Vexing Dodger 8. He has 4 sneak attack dice. So, it's -4 from Mouser, -4 from 'Dodger, and -4 from Disoriented.

What's fun is that this is in a party that has an Intimidate build Inquisitor with a Cruel weapon and the Inflict Pain spell. There have been times when everything has been stacked on a boss, that boss has a -20 to hit the goblin climbing all over him :P

you read it wrong ....

"While the mouser is within her foe's space, the foe takes a –4 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks not made against the mouser"

-4 to all attacks that are NOT MADE AGAINST THE MOUSER"

[Saldiven]

666bender wrote:

Saldiven wrote:

666bender wrote:

but, where is the -12 to hit the character comes from ?

Oh, that's what you wanted.

First, from Mouser, starting at level 1, if you are in an enemy's square, that enemy takes a -4 to hit penalty (untyped) on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks against the Mouser.

Then, from Vexing Dodger, if you are climbing an opponent, that opponent takes a penalty (untyped) equal to the number of Sneak Attack dice the rogue has to attacks made against the Vexing Dodger.

Lastly, from Unchained Rogue is the Debilitating Injury modifier after hitting with Sneak Attack. After hitting a target with a Sneak Attack, you can choose the "Disoriented" effect, which results in a -4 to hit penalty against the rogue.

The character is Mouser 1/Vexing Dodger 8. He has 4 sneak attack dice. So, it's -4 from Mouser, -4 from 'Dodger, and -4 from Disoriented.

What's fun is that this is in a party that has an Intimidate build Inquisitor with a Cruel weapon and the Inflict Pain spell. There have been times when everything has been stacked on a boss, that boss has a -20 to hit the goblin climbing all over him :P

you read it wrong ....

"While the mouser is within her foe's space, the foe takes a –4 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks not made against the mouser"

-4 to all attacks that are NOT MADE AGAINST THE MOUSER"

Oops.

Honestly, though, that's even better. A -8 to hit modifier is plenty; being able to give a -4 to hit against all his allies in melee is better than another -4 to hit him.

[Cavall]

I put up about a year ago a great swashbuckler intimidation build with a skill unlock. Inspired blade works well.

It's a total terror fest with massive fear effects and panic running wild.

I'd look it up but you're already using the search.

[666bender]

Saldiven wrote:

666bender wrote:

Saldiven wrote:

666bender wrote:

but, where is the -12 to hit the character comes from ?

Oh, that's what you wanted.

First, from Mouser, starting at level 1, if you are in an enemy's square, that enemy takes a -4 to hit penalty (untyped) on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks against the Mouser.

Then, from Vexing Dodger, if you are climbing an opponent, that opponent takes a penalty (untyped) equal to the number of Sneak Attack dice the rogue has to attacks made against the Vexing Dodger.

Lastly, from Unchained Rogue is the Debilitating Injury modifier after hitting with Sneak Attack. After hitting a target with a Sneak Attack, you can choose the "Disoriented" effect, which results in a -4 to hit penalty against the rogue.

The character is Mouser 1/Vexing Dodger 8. He has 4 sneak attack dice. So, it's -4 from Mouser, -4 from 'Dodger, and -4 from Disoriented.

What's fun is that this is in a party that has an Intimidate build Inquisitor with a Cruel weapon and the Inflict Pain spell. There have been times when everything has been stacked on a boss, that boss has a -20 to hit the goblin climbing all over him :P

you read it wrong ....

"While the mouser is within her foe's space, the foe takes a –4 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks not made against the mouser"

-4 to all attacks that are NOT MADE AGAINST THE MOUSER"

Oops.

Honestly, though, that's even better. A -8 to hit modifier is plenty; being able to give a -4 to hit against all his allies in melee is better than another -4 to hit him.

Will boosts of climbing auto win the cmd check ?

[666bender]

Cavall wrote:

I put up about a year ago a great swashbuckler intimidation build with a skill unlock. Inspired blade works well.

It's a total terror fest with massive fear effects and panic running wild.

I'd look it up but you're already using the search.

I was considering a swashbuckler with rake. Rogue.

The (+) gained with rake will auto panic any foe

[Saldiven]

666bender wrote:

Will boosts of climbing auto win the cmd check ?

I don't think he's at "auto-win" for every situation. I don't have the character sheet with me here at work, but I know his Climb is 27. I haven't run into anything I've failed against yet, I don't believe. I think the highest CMD I've seen so far is 30.

Eventually, the plan is to get his UMD high enough to reliably use a wand of Reduce Person. Then, as a Tiny creature, he can use his Dex for Climb, and that will throw his skill check into the upper 30's, assuming no other changes from right now.

[Omnitricks]

I remember my first swashbuckler. Wayyyy fun to play, although his strength is more on not being in the thick of a group.

Another problem was while he had a lot of cool toys to play with, they all use immediate/swift actions thus forcing you to limit yourself.

And if I'm not mistaken, reaching level 5 is good enough as a dip.

From what I've heard for the longest time, Mouser is considered one of the better swashbucklers too.

And don't forget about the feats he can use. They are pretty flavorful and useful.

[The Shaman]

Actually, now you can use Sword Devil ranger to get Cha and Dex to AC, if you go to level 4 with it. I am a bit unsure if I want to mix the two, though - 4 levels is not a small dip, and at this point the question is do you want to stop taking more sword devil levels.

[Cavall]

666bender wrote:

Cavall wrote:

I put up about a year ago a great swashbuckler intimidation build with a skill unlock. Inspired blade works well.

It's a total terror fest with massive fear effects and panic running wild.

I'd look it up but you're already using the search.

I was considering a swashbuckler with rake. Rogue.

The (+) gained with rake will auto panic any foe

The build I made with the wife is more AOE fear from crits as well as single focused fear too. You can butcher entire groups with combat reflexes and a fortuitous weapon while they do nothing but run with no weapons. It's been pretty broken but totally kills the theory that you only need a couple levels in the class and can move on.

Last session she did an inspired attack to autocrit and took out 4 alchemists with haste on them. By the time they regrouped one was dead and the other 3 surrounded. Combat ended swiftly.

[Charon's Little Helper]

My Self wrote:

-4 from Mouser's deeds, being in the same square. -2 to general AC from the Bewildered Debilitating Injury, -2 for self-specific Bewildering Injury. Offensive Defense Rogue Talent gives +1 AC per Sneak Attack die against the target, which, as an 8th level Rogue, would be 4d6, or +4 AC. Totals up to about +12 effective AC vs that target.

As 666bender says - they rolled Offensive Defense into Debilitating Injury. (Offensive Defense was written badly anyway. Technically you could carry around blind mice to kill in order to jack up your AC.)

666bender wrote:

i love dipping 2-4 levels out of the class.

I'm with you. I've been playing around with a Noble Fencer archetype with a 2 level dip into Paladin. Instead of the 2 & 1/3 boost that the 2 level magus dip gives you to Fort/Will, it ups them both by 6ish, plus Reflex a few points too. The smite & access to wand use seem handy too. (The latter would be especially true for a PFS character.)

[My Self]

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

My Self wrote:

-4 from Mouser's deeds, being in the same square. -2 to general AC from the Bewildered Debilitating Injury, -2 for self-specific Bewildering Injury. Offensive Defense Rogue Talent gives +1 AC per Sneak Attack die against the target, which, as an 8th level Rogue, would be 4d6, or +4 AC. Totals up to about +12 effective AC vs that target.

As 666bender says - they rolled Offensive Defense into Debilitating Injury. (Offensive Defense was written badly anyway. Technically you could carry around blind mice to kill in order to jack up your AC.)

It was basically the only thing I could find on short notice that could pump your own AC by that much. Probably should have paid closer attention to the UC specific restriction text.

[Alex Mack]

The Shaman wrote:

Actually, now you can use Sword Devil ranger to get Cha and Dex to AC, if you go to level 4 with it. I am a bit unsure if I want to mix the two, though - 4 levels is not a small dip, and at this point the question is do you want to stop taking more sword devil levels.

Where can one find details about the sword devil archetype? Sounds very interesting...

[the Diviner]

Alex Mack wrote:

The Shaman wrote:

Actually, now you can use Sword Devil ranger to get Cha and Dex to AC, if you go to level 4 with it. I am a bit unsure if I want to mix the two, though - 4 levels is not a small dip, and at this point the question is do you want to stop taking more sword devil levels.

Where can one find details about the sword devil archetype? Sounds very interesting...

It seems to be from the first issue of the Pathfinder Worldscape comic. I do not own it though so no comment on it's effectiveness.

[The Shaman]

It is in the first issue of the Worldscape comic. If you can find it in print or online, it is right after the comic ends.

Paizo has been putting in short pieces at the end of the their previous comics as well, but it seems that Worldscape will have archetypes as well. I hope they make it to the SRDs soon too.