Sorry for the clickbait title, but this really is a question that's been bugging me. What does the skald do well?
I know the warpriest gets bashed a lot, but he still gets things neither the fighter nor cleric get together: Bonus melee abilities and spells.
I guess I just can't see how the bard is meaningfully better at melee than the skald, aside from proficiencies. The raging song doesn't do much more than Inspire Courage, especially at low levels. It arguably does less, in fact, since it only aids your melee friends and hurts the AC.
Is there any reason to play a low-level skald outside a party with a barbarian?
A spell warrior skald's weapon song is great, and giving rage powers to your entire party is no joke.
Okay, but that's an archetype. I'm talking vanilla Skald.
In a party with lots of str based Melee they are phenomenal especially once they give everyone pounce. Otherwise they are just interesting flavor.
So, at high levels, they're certainly very good. But what do they offer at levels 1-3?
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Considering the Skald in my Carrion Crown game has kept us alive despite going unconscious without having to walk over and use cure light or something, or even get someone back on their feet with their song, I'd say they can do pretty well.
I apologize for the unclear first post, but I can't tell how much of that stuff applies to a vanilla low-level skald, so I'm not sure how to interpret your post.
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So, at high levels, they're certainly very good. But what do they offer at levels 1-3?
In those early levels, the rounds of song are actually pretty limited. The skald, with his better weapon and armor proficiencies, will be able to help more in his non-singing rounds.
And the raging song helps will saves, which is a pretty big deal to many characters.
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Community Minded trait lets you have each round last longer (lingers, then the str/con/save bonuses stick a bit more). Blanket buff to will saves helps prevent colorspray, a common killer.
Martial Weapons actually make a big difference in this range too, because 2d6 damage kills alone sometimes. Add in skalds vigor and you can make a frontline which helps the healer quite a bit out of the fight.
After levels 1-3 you get spell kenning, which is great for being shrodinger's bard (or as I call it, shrodingers metal brother), greater skalds vigor is outstanding, and if you didn't choose beast totem (maybe everyone can already move and attack) celestial totem is fantastic. Free Daylight, Invis. Purge, healing, and SR that doesn't apply against allies is a pretty nice bundle and it saves the party cleric some spells.
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I apologize for the unclear first post, but I can't tell how much of that stuff applies to a vanilla low-level skald, so I'm not sure how to interpret your post.
Everyone is limited at first level, I don't see where the Skald stands out particurlarly in this.
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I apologize for the unclear first post, but I can't tell how much of that stuff applies to a vanilla low-level skald, so I'm not sure how to interpret your post.Everyone is limited at first level, I don't see where the Skald stands out particurlarly in this.
It's more that he thinks the skald doesn't stack up to the bard at early levels. Personally, I'm not a fan of scribe scroll on a spontaneous caster, though that does eventually become useful with spell kenning.
And if you decide to rule that spell kenning doesn't let you scribe scrolls, then the scribing is even less useful and needs archetypes to trade it out.
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It's more that he thinks the skald doesn't stack up to the bard at early levels. Personally, I'm not a fan of scribe scroll on a spontaneous caster, though that does eventually become useful with spell kenning.I apologize for the unclear first post, but I can't tell how much of that stuff applies to a vanilla low-level skald, so I'm not sure how to interpret your post.Everyone is limited at first level, I don't see where the Skald stands out particurlarly in this.
When kenning comes into play, scribe scroll becomes gold. as Kenning gives the skald access to a whole world of spells.
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I'd edited my above post, but it's possible kenning doesn't work for scrolls. "The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires."
And kenning only says you can cast as if you knew the spell. It could use a FAQ, but I wouldn't be surprised if some don't allow it.
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I apologize for the unclear first post, but I can't tell how much of that stuff applies to a vanilla low-level skald, so I'm not sure how to interpret your post.Everyone is limited at first level, I don't see where the Skald stands out particurlarly in this.It's more that he thinks the skald doesn't stack up to the bard at early levels. Personally, I'm not a fan of scribe scroll on a spontaneous caster, though that does eventually become useful with spell kenning.
And if you decide to rule that spell kenning doesn't let you scribe scrolls, then the scribing is even less useful and needs archetypes to trade it out.
PFS makes you trade it out for Spell Focus.
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The point of a Skald is that giving the entire party a bunch of rage powers can be highly effective.
The downside is that this depends on the party composition, thus making it an unreliable class in PFS where you'll likely have a different party every table.
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The fact that, with a dedicated group, everyone can rage all day, and you could have fast healing 4 at level 2 while you rage right along with them? When you hit level 10 (or 11, depending on if you retrain or not) you also can give everyone else the same fast healing.
If that isn't disgustingly terrifying I don't know what is.
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Skald makes a better "battle bard" with it's better armor and weapon proficiencies, fort and will as a good save, and pumping more power into most melee-focused characters. It can be truly awe-inspiring in the right group.
That said, if your front-liners are a magus and an alchemist the Skald will be sad. Although there are a lot of characters that would benefit from taking the song, there are definitely some that will never want it.
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That said, if your front-liners are a magus and an alchemist the Skald will be sad. Although there are a lot of characters that would benefit from taking the song, there are definitely some that will never want it.
Each ally can choose to accept or end the song's effects at the beginning of each of their turns, as long as the song is active. So, even a magus will get occasional rounds where he will want to accept it. And I'm not really sure why an alchemist would have trouble with it. It doesn't seem to negatively affect any of his abilities.
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I always try to break things down into feats to understand them.
At certain levels a bard provide a better to hit, +1, and better damage, +1. That is a feat and a half. Less if you are giving to it two handers because the get more from there strength bonus.
What does the Skald give that the bard does not. Bonuses to all will saves that's worth one or more feats. Boost to Fort another feat after level 7. Toughness twice after level 7. Several rage powers, that's at least a feat each. Superstition is actually better for skalds because it's easy to drop the song to let people get healed, no fatigue. The ability via spells to change and adapt your song. Eventually fast healing.
The cost of this 1 AC. This, at most levels is meaningless. At low levels it feels like it matters. The case has been made that AC is the least important defence saves and HP beeping more important.
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Each ally can choose to accept or end the song's effects at the beginning of each of their turns, as long as the song is active. So, even a magus will get occasional rounds where he will want to accept it. And I'm not really sure why an alchemist would have trouble with it. It doesn't seem to negatively affect any of his abilities.
Indeed. I've had the party wizard accept my skald song on occasion (mainly because it included the Superstition rage power, boosting his saves by a lot).
I always try to break things down into feats to understand them.
Bear in mind that weapon focus is a pretty weak feat, too; it's pretty rare for anyone to take it except as a prereq. Several of the other feats or feat-equivalents that you mention are much stronger.
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I always try to break things down into feats to understand them.Bear in mind that weapon focus is a pretty weak feat, too; it's pretty rare for anyone to take it except as a prereq. Several of the other feats or feat-equivalents that you mention are much stronger.
This is a good point. For some reason people seem to forget about the immense defensive power of the Skald. I would say the number one problem with the class is that it is hard to get people to remember all the stuff your giving them.
I would say the number one problem with the class is that it is hard to get people to remember all the stuff your giving them.
I find this a problem with any buffing class. I frequently have to remind people of what all they get from haste.
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For mage group urban scald very very fit...
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I would say the number one problem with the class is that it is hard to get people to remember all the stuff your giving them.I find this a problem with any buffing class. I frequently have to remind people of what all they get from haste.
** WARNING : SHAMELESS PLUG FOR PAIZO PRODUCT AHAED **
That is what the buff deck is all about. I love it!!! And I really use it a lot as a skald. I play him in PFS and I have yet to find a party that didn't have at least one player who would always take the rage.
Shared rage alone is huge when used correctly.
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To have a single-classed bard-barian.
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A few things I have learned related to the last few posts.
1) Community Minded is huge for this class. Remind anybody that passes on a turn or is in no risk of getting hit to take your song for a round.
2) Build your character to utilize your song. What every your build choice, make sure you are able to benefit from it. Skalds are force multipliers. They get better for every person that uses their abilities. Two people is the minimum to start really swing things. You plus one other is the best place to start.
3) Buff cards are great. I made my own specifically for my build. They are helpful.
4) Help with the math. I tell people when they get hit with something, lets say Fort targeting spell. You have a +5 for me against that spell 2 from Con and 3 from superstition.
5) Get a wand of moment of greatness. Great in combat. Also great out of combat. Have a poison, disease or affliction your trying to cure. Song + MoG have them roll with double morale. That aforementioned +5 Fort just became a +10.
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That said, if your front-liners are a magus and an alchemist the Skald will be sad. Although there are a lot of characters that would benefit from taking the song, there are definitely some that will never want it.Each ally can choose to accept or end the song's effects at the beginning of each of their turns, as long as the song is active. So, even a magus will get occasional rounds where he will want to accept it. And I'm not really sure why an alchemist would have trouble with it. It doesn't seem to negatively affect any of his abilities.
True - but if you're comparing skald vs bard, the magus (and any dex build, archer, barbarian, or bloodrager in the party) might use the skald song occasionally, but they'll still be sad that it isn't Inspire Courage instead which they would use all of the time.
Basically that's why a skald is pretty awesome for certain group compositions, but the bard is often much better fit for PFS.
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That sounds like something that should be a google doc to share!
Never been a fan of the class thematically...
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I find that flash cards propped up in front of the player work great. Seen it used before for a Bard character. Really works great for characters with a lot of buffs. Those cards that Paizo sells are also fa gastric with the cute little goblins and all that. You know what, it works for everything.
Also, Skalds are METAL!!!!
Skalds have fantastic defensive potential that the whole group can benefit from. Just a handfull of rage powers c s n combine to grant massivebonuses to ac and saves. They have the ability to bring out the potential of other classes by bringing new abilities to a character who may never see them otherwise. Even if a class doesn't accept the rage song, their cohort or familiar or animal companion or eidolon or summon would LOVE it. Combine that with bard spells and a good set of saves, and alot of different classes can benefit from your presence.
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Skald depends ENTIRELY on the group you play with.
I played a Skald in PFS until 3rd level. The only things that would accept my song were animal companions and a monk trying to do out-of-combat saves v.s. a poison.
Seriously, I was in a party with a melee fighter, melee paladin, a monk, and me. Nobody else would accept the song, because of the AC penalty.
We died that scenario. TPK.
We scrounged up enough gold and prestige to get the monk back up with no negative levels.
I wasn't sad to see that character go.
Obviously this is only my personal experience, but I'm a bit jaded towards the skald.
I would say most simply, that the point of a skald is roleplaying purposes. Skalds are a Scandinavian sort of bard. Warrior-poets who record sagas, sing oral histories, sound the horns to call to battle, etc. They record history from the frontlines. They bear witness in the old sense of the phrase.
Regular bards are like medieval troubadours. They are entertainers and travelers who are "in the know" and up to date with current events. They are agents of change and information.
Also, would you rather be a rapier-toting swashbuckler, or clad in hide and chain with a trusty handaxe on your belt?
Remember that RPGs aren't just about a dungeon crawl (although I guess they can be). Normally, they are about pretending you're someone else.
I would say most simply, that the point of a skald is roleplaying purposes. Skalds are a Scandinavian sort of bard. Warrior-poets who record sagas, sing oral histories, sound the horns to call to battle, etc. They record history from the frontlines. They bear witness in the old sense of the phrase.
Regular bards are like medieval troubadours. They are entertainers and travelers who are "in the know" and up to date with current events. They are agents of change and information.
Also, would you rather be a rapier-toting swashbuckler, or clad in hide and chain with a trusty handaxe on your belt?
Remember that RPGs aren't just about a dungeon crawl (although I guess they can be). Normally, they are about pretending you're someone else.
Classes are not limited by settings. Your ideas can be true, but very often aren't. Bards can make fine melee combatants (a half-orc bard can have plenty of fun with a falchion), and either class can fit in pretty much any culture. Music and dance, and music and dance for war, are practically universal.
Hell, if we're gonna nitpick, the Scandinavian skald is about as far from the true skald class as you can get—Scandinavian skalds were closer to the bard class, as they don't seem to have done much in the way of battlechants. Running some Wikipedia searches, I think the skald class would be better compared to the war drummers of the Serer people, or similar traditions that came later (their origin in Europe appears to be the kettledrums of the Islamic forces, which inspired the Crusaders to co-opt it as a tactic).
Among ancient war drums that can be mentioned, junjung was used by the Serer people in West Africa. The Rigveda describes the war drum as the fist of Indra.
Ironically, Scandinavia, and Europe in general, had very little to do with the origins of the tradition of battlemusic. Unless we're talking bagpipes.
My question is not about the skald's "theme" (its theme is extremely flexible, like that of every class). It's just about low-level performance. I suppose martial weapons and medium armor might be enough to give them an edge, though a monstrous bard doesn't really have any use for the skald class until later on.
I don't really get why you think I don't understand the point of the game. Of course it's about playing characters other than yourself. But if a class isn't able to do anything distinctive in mechanics, all the tone and theme in the world isn't going to stop me from playing something else. See re: The chained rogue.