Personally I much rather trade the spell casting instead of the bardic performance.
Some archetypes that grant oracle curses would be interesting.
Yes, the spellcasting is the intended trade-off.
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I want a Ranger that gives up Favored Enemy and gets Studied Target like a slayer.
^Which Ranger stuff do you want to add back into the Slayer?
^Which Ranger stuff do you want to add back into the Slayer?
If anything, I want a feat called studied dodge that adds his studied target bonus as a dodge bonus to ac versus his targets.
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More size-related weapon wielding archetypes.
Already have for bigger weapons, I'd like to see an archetype that allows wielding two steps smaller two-handed weapons as light weapons.
Bows and Crossbows could really use some size related rules addresses, plus it would be really fun to sport an oversized repeater crossbow (and maybe a belt feed bolt option...).
I'd also love to see a three-weapon fighter, like Zoro from One-piece, where the third weapon is head-mounted.
Getting proper rules for buying the different weapon sizes would also be really awesome. I'd love to build a huge dagger wielding fighter.
^Theoretically, a Kobold who is proficient with Kobold Tail Attachments and has Two-Weapon Fighting should be able to pull off the Three-Weapon Fighting, although I'm not sure if such a character would then also need to take Multi-Weapon Fighting, or if it would be a feat trade-in.
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^Theoretically, a Kobold who is proficient with Kobold Tail Attachments and has Two-Weapon Fighting should be able to pull off the Three-Weapon Fighting, although I'm not sure if such a character would then also need to take Multi-Weapon Fighting, or if it would be a feat trade-in.
The juggler bard can already wield 7 one handed weapons at a time plus any non-hand weapons they want to have also.
I'd like that too. Trouble is a lot of them come out really underperforming compared to their magical counterparts. Ultimate Intrigue has two and neither of them are that impressive.
I would love more spell-less options for Rangers, Paladins, Bloodragers, and maybe even some of the 6th level casting classes.
^Last I checked, Sleuth Investigator (which removes the equivalent of 6/9 casting) is pretty underwhelming.
Replacement of 4/9 spellcasting still seems to be hit-or-miss, but at least it is a decent hit some of the time (Warrior of the Holy Light Paladin soudns like it is not terrible, and likewise for Stonelord Paladin).
I'd like more talents for the Vigilante's archetypes, such as:
Brute
- A Talent to gain ability adjustments based on size
- A Talent to gain rage powers
- A Talent to reduce the DC to avoid attacking your allies
Cabalist
- A Talent to use blood for spell components
- A Talent to use blood to alter appearance based on age
- A Talent to use blood as a mutagen-like substance
Gunmaster
- A Talent to select any deed
- A Talent to make a "Daring Act" to renew one use of any Talent
- A Talent to shoot in melee
Magical Child
- A Talent to apply a familiar archetype (Familiar Folio) to the familiar, in any form
- A Talent to add spells related to familiars in the Child's spell list
- A Talent to select Eidolon evolutions
Mounted Fury
- A Talent to gain a cavalier's challenges
- A Talent to gain an order's ability
- A Talent to grant the Vahana template to the mount
Psychometrist
- A Talent to gain knacks, based on the implement schools he has
- A Talent to gain the ability to use summoning circles
- A Talent to gain a school's resonant power
Warlock
- A Talent to gain Spellstrike
- A Talent to gain Spell Combat
- A Talent to gain a magus's arcana or an arcanist's exploit
Wildsoul (Arachnid)
- A Talent to shoot web bullets
- A Talent to create weapons made of webbing
- A Talent to create shields and armors made of webbing
Wildsoul (Falconine)
- A Talent to gain attack modifiers while airborne
- A Talent to gain a bird companion
- A Talent to gain monster feats, like Flyby Attack and Snatch
Wildsoul (Ursine)
- A Talent to gain grapple modifiers
- A Talent to use claws as iterative weapons, similar to cat gloves
- A Talent to gain a polar bear's white fur
Zealot
- A Talent to gain a warpriest's sacred weapon
- A Talent to gain an inquisitor's judgment
- A Talent to gain an inquisitor's bane/slayer ability
Speaking of new archetypes for the Vigilante:
- a telekineticist, mixed with a Psychic's discipline
- an alchemist, mixed with Investigator talents
- a bard, mixed with a Skald's songs
A fey summoning archetype for druids would be interesting.
For me personally, I'd love a more "fighty" mesmerist, with medium armor and strong fort saves rather than glib lie and some of the more social stuff they get.
I mentioned an idea for an ooze shifter druid in the Horror Adventures thread, I'm glad someone else thinks it's a good idea too. Though I would like the archetype to have the ability to shift into vermin form too, and have a vermin/ooze companion.
I'd love to see an Occultist archetype that gives up spellcasting but gains heavy armor, full BAB, and d10 HD, and keeps the implements and focus powers.
I'd love to see a humanoid/monstrous humanoid shifter as a Druid or Hunter archetype, one that keeps spellcasting but dumps the animal companion and related abilities.
A fey summoning archetype for druids would be interesting.
The Fey Caller in Ultimate Intrigue might be what you are looking for... despite being an Unchained Summoner archetype.
However, the major issue I see with this archetype idea... is that feys aren't very widespread, let alone having a wide range of CRs. Unless you can tag the Fey Creature template on existing monsters that appear in the Summon Nature's Ally lists, you're going to be short on actual feys here...
I was very disappointing in the Fey Caller.
The primordial simple creature template would good since the template is for creatures from the first world.
(I think I snagged the last of the old posts on this sub-topic)
Edit: I'm not totally sold that a rogue needs such an archetype, but if they had one, I'd probably want to see them get at least a couple Ranger Style feats in addition to the damage bonus. But I'd also like to see that damage bonus still be precision damage, to put some of the situational nature of the damage back into the build.Part of the "situational nature" is the precision damage. Depending on the type of game you play, a large percentage of your enemies can be immune/resistant to your sneak attacks making it so you don't even get your situational burst damage. For situations like that, I'd like an option for non-precision damage and this would IMO be a perfect way to do it. Fighters have ways around DR so it's be nice to see a rogue get around having to have precision damage.
Now that I've had several days to think about this, I wonder if in fact Fighter (Lore Warden archetype for more skill points) is really the best way to go for what you want. Specialize in Two-Weapon Fighting and get your first Weapon Training in Close Weapons (default), Light Blades (if you need something that Close Weapons doesn't have), Monk Weapons (if you are going for the Ascetic Style feat chain for some weird reason), or Thrown Weapons (if you want to specialize in throwing, and the associated Versatile Training skill selection is helpful too), and then snag Advanced Weapon Training (Focused Weapon) (and of course the prerequisite Weapon Focus and possibly Exotic Weapon Proficiency or a racial weapon proficiency/familiarity) with your weapon of choice to increase the size of the base damage die with your level as if you were a Warpriest. Also snag Advanced Weapon Training (Versatile Training) to get your skill ranks up, and later snag Advanced Weapon Training (Weapon Specialist) to spread the love among all the weapons in your selected Weapon Group (you can select a number of Combat Feats equal to your Weapon Training bonus, but make sure you include Weapon Focus first to make all of the weapons in your selected Weapon Group count for your Advanced Weapon Training), except that if you are Human, you can instead get this earlier by taking the Martial Versatility feat and eventually get it going with ALL feats with Martial Mastery. Get Weapon Finesse, Agile weapons, and Piranha Strike. Your DPR will be around 1/2 that of a Rogue on soft targets (make that more like 1/3 that of a Knife Master Rogue on soft targets), but you'll be able to land hits on much harder targets without having to worry about setting up Sneak Attack. Since you are a Lore Warden, you'll want to invest in at least 1 Combat Maneuver (preferably more) to get full use of your alternate class abilities. For Thrown Weapons, you will also need Quick Draw and a subset of archery feats.
Of course, having said all that, some things still seem lacking -- no easy way into Rogue-like skills, and the build seems awfully fiddly (including finding the partial dependence upon the Agile weapon enchantment on the right weapons) and restrictive to get full advantage of everything, while your Rogue-like melee debuffing options are also limited. So suddenly I'm back on topic by thinking of a Slayer archetype again, that trades out the 6n + 3 level (including 3rd level) Sneak Attack dice for Armor Training and the 6n level Sneak Attack dice for Weapon Training (eventually getting numeric bonuses up to +3 in each), and counts Slayer levels as Fighter levels (maybe with some delay or reduced rate) for feat prerequisite purposes (but in any case with full progression for things such as Advanced Weapon Training (Focused Weapon) that depend upon Fighter level).
Would also like to make this archetype compatible with a Hellknight Stalker archetype that I would also like for Slayer to get, that would delay Studied Target in favor of getting Heavy Armor proficiency and the ability to use the Ranger Combat Style Slayer Talent chain while using Heavy Armor (Rules As Written, I think that this already works, but Rules As Intended, it shouldn't without some kind of exception like this). I'm imagining an Order of the Gate Hellknight Stalker that would dual-wield and throw Daggers (the Favored Weapon of the Order of the Gate) with deadly results.
UnArcaneElection: Fighter/slayer really doesn't do it for me.
For fighters, I don't want my whole build around 1 specific weapon. A rust monster comes around or a magic McGuffin is needed to hurt something and you're left twiddling your thumbs... Secondly, it fails horribly in the skill department. For instance, I don't want 2 extra skill points in just int skills and have no need/want for Combat Expertise on my 'rogue' as I have no need for Combat Maneuvers. Really suggesting fighter to me seems like taking two steps back to go one forward.
Slayer at least attempts to make a Rogue-like character but fails in what I want out of one. Does my dex based character really need Armor Training? It seems is fairly meh. Might be useful to eek out an extra dex bonus on armor but... meh.
Weapon Training seems both under and over powered for this. It's got LOST of new toys to play with at higher levels so it's a bit much then but it's a wasteland until 5th level so you get nothing in those levels that end up getting played more than high level ones.
For myself I really, really, really just want a ROGUE archetype that changes up sneak attack. I don't want a fighter or slayer that a bit roguish but a rogue that less swingy. If I wanted to make a 'fighter' type rogue, I'd just take the Phantom Thief archetype.
^Skirmisher Ranger could be used to build something sort of like what you want. Replaces Ranger spellcasting with Hunter's Tricks, most of which don't boost damage (or if they do, it is usually by way of granting an extra attack), but which include several debuffing and utility abilities, and you get 6 + IntMod skill points per level out of the box. The limited uses per day does hurt, though (what's up with all these limited use per day abilities on classes that are using entirely Extraordinary abilities?), which might explain the market for Kobold Press' Spell-Less Ranger (which unfortunately doesn't seem to be available on www.d20pfsrd.com).
Edit: Found Kobold Press' Spell-less Ranger after all -- they made it a whole separate base class instead of a Ranger archetype. And no limit on uses per day of Ranger Talents, and it even gets a small amount of what effectively amounts to Sneak Attack.
A drunk cleric
UnArcaneElection: Nature stuff and a pet... That's REALLY not "a rogue that's less swingy".
My wish is simple. A rogue that has sneak attack replaced with a less swingy and more reliable damage bonus. That's it. To be honest the Phantom Thief archetype is closer to what I want than any non-rogue suggestions to date. It drops sneak attack and I could at least take the startoss line of feats for my static damage. If there was some way to keep Debilitating injury somehow, with a different trigger of course, it'd be the a fairly good fit.
Now I should say that I do appreciate your trying to find something to fit. I really do. There are just some abilities I'm not a fan of and look to swap out. For instance, I generally dislike favored enemy/terrain and actively try to get rid of them. That however doesn't mean I dislike the class or want to play a different one, just that I'd rather have a different feature instead. That's where I am with the rogue. I can have fun with it, I just wish there was damage feature to use instead of sneak attack.
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Looks like Phantom Thief has real recently appeared on www.d20pfsrd.com -- actually looks pretty good, except for the lack of a way to boost damage; on the other hand, this is THE skill monkey of the Aristocratic variety. (Wish they had an Expert/Professional sub-archetype of it, though.)
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I'd like to see more smart divine caster archetypes - something good but still with a decent number of skill points, maybe even Int-based spellcasting.
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Looks like Phantom Thief has real recently appeared on www.d20pfsrd.com -- actually looks pretty good, except for the lack of a way to boost damage; on the other hand, this is THE skill monkey of the Aristocratic variety. (Wish they had an Expert/Professional sub-archetype of it, though.)
We have a house rule in our games that rogues, fighters, monks and swashbucklers get one "free" archetype (doesn't swap anything out), so the phantom thief just single-handedly made the rogue a really good class for us!
^Problem with that is that you aren't getting the most out of that rule unless you pick an archetype that swaps out as much as possible for something good (emphasis on the last part). That said, I would like to see VMC archetypes and the option to VMC into your own primary class, thereby gaining additional class features and potentially combining archetypes that are normally incompatible. Of course, before doing this, a major rebalancing and rework of VMC would be needed (right now it is really uneven).
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A fey summoning archetype for druids would be interesting.The Fey Caller in Ultimate Intrigue might be what you are looking for... despite being an Unchained Summoner archetype.
However, the major issue I see with this archetype idea... is that feys aren't very widespread, let alone having a wide range of CRs. Unless you can tag the Fey Creature template on existing monsters that appear in the Summon Nature's Ally lists, you're going to be short on actual feys here...
Mite is already on the level 1 Nature's ally list. d3 Mites with Summon Nature's ally 2, and d4+1 mites with Summon Nature's ally 3.
Then, with summon nature's ally 4, we get access to the Satyr. This covers 5 and 6, as above. Then a gap for 7 and 8, and then Pixie at 9.
For the archetype:
-They'd lose Nature's bond and gain an additional restriction that prevents the druid from wielding cold iron weapons (because it's offensive to fey).
-I'd replace wild empathy with a bonus on CHA skills to interactions with fey.
-I'd grant an ability like tactician, but for the summoned fey (the druid doesn't benefit, only the summoned creatures).
-I'd allow the Druid to summon fey as a standard action (though only with prepared summon nature's ally spells).
-I'd add another fey for that gap at 7 and 8. Just one more fey would be enough.
-And then I'd add an ability that allowed Summon Nature's ally to count as Summon Monster for feat requirements, and I'd allow feats that modify natural weapons for summoned creatures to instead modify the weapons summoned with the summoned fey (Specifically for Mites, Satyrs, Pixies, and the gap filler fey).
Not a hard archetype to create, surprised it doesn't already exist.
It could also get Entice Fey(lesser, normal, and greater) as a spell like ability once per week without paying any cost.
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Going back to the vigilante, I've noticed that... every single archetype presented only alters the vigilante identity; none of them changes the social identity, at all.
So... how about archetypes that modify the social identity and leave the vigilante identity intact?
Also, how about a sub-archetype of Phantom Thief to cover the Expert/Professional side of things? (I have to say, I don't like the name Phantom Thief even though the archetype definitely has a good niche, because this name feels restrictive of the flavor -- mechanically it can be used for a very skilled aristocratic type who doesn't have to have anything to do with breaking and entering, but the name and the flavor text strongly steer you in that direction.)
Also, how about a sub-archetype of Phantom Thief to cover the Expert/Professional side of things? (I have to say, I don't like the name Phantom Thief even though the archetype definitely has a good niche, because this name feels restrictive of the flavor -- mechanically it can be used for a very skilled aristocratic type who doesn't have to have anything to do with breaking and entering, but the name and the flavor text strongly steer you in that direction.)
LOL I took at it as the Dilettante or Jack-o'- All-Trades Thief. The fluff/name may point you towards the calling card cat burglar shtick but I immediately threw that in the trash.
Not sure how a sub-archetype [Expert/Professional] would work. What are you thinking of replacing and with what?
Professional Rogues don't know the desperation of a hard life like many Rogues, but also don't know the entitlement of the elites. Instead, they come from the ranks of the professional class, having succeeded in securing themselves a comfortable living but having grown dissatisfied with the comfortable monotony of their jobs. Professional Rogues seek new experiences to which they can put their education and practical skills to use.
Dependent Archetype
The Professional Rogue is a further modification of the Phantom Thief archetype, which is treated as the base class for the purpose of adjudicating archetype compatibility.
Practical Education
A Professional Rogue retains Trapfinding(*) as a standard Rogue, but only gains proficiency with Simple Weapons and Light Armor. This alters Refined Education and the Rogue's Weapon and Armor Proficiencies.
Middle-Class Education
A Professional Rogue is not restricted from selecting Social Grace and Vigilante Social Talents that would require being a craftsman or professional. This alters Broad Education.
Nerd Sense
Being from the professional class, Professional Rogues are attuned to mechanical dangers, but not as adept at social dangers. A Professional Rogue retains Trap Sense(*), but does not receive Sense Motive bonuses. This replaces Social Sense.
(*)The restored Trapfinding and Trap Sense class features may then be modified or replaced by another Rogue archetype, as long as the overall archetype combination otherwise obeys the rules for combining archetypes.
Professional Rogues don't know the desperation of a hard life like many Rogues, but also don't know the entitlement of the elites. Instead, they come from the ranks of the professional class, having succeeded in securing themselves a comfortable living but having grown dissatisfied with the comfortable monotony of their jobs. Professional Rogues seek new experiences to which they can put their education and practical skills to use.
Dependent Archetype
The Professional Rogue is a further modification of the Phantom Thief archetype, which is treated as the base class for the purpose of adjudicating archetype compatibility.
Practical Education
A Professional Rogue retains Trapfinding(*) as a standard Rogue, but only gains proficiency with Simple Weapons and Light Armor. This alters Refined Education and the Rogue's Weapon and Armor Proficiencies.
Middle-Class Education
A Professional Rogue is not restricted from selecting Social Grace and Vigilante Social Talents that would require being a craftsman or professional. This alters Broad Education.
Nerd Sense
Being from the professional class, Professional Rogues are attuned to mechanical dangers, but not as adept at social dangers. A Professional Rogue retains Trap Sense(*), but does not receive Sense Motive bonuses. This replaces Social Sense.
(*)The restored Trapfinding and Trap Sense class features may then be modified or replaced by another Rogue archetype, as long as the overall archetype combination otherwise obeys the rules for combining archetypes.
Why is it needed to note that you do not receive Sense Motive bonuses if it replaces the thing that would have granted you the Sense Motive bonus?
^That is left over from before I thought up that awesome title for the replacement ability. That said, I am still not satisfied with what I wrote above. An ability with a name that awesome should do more than just restore Trap Sense . . . :-)
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I'd love to see a summoner archetype that trades out the Eidolon for something else. I often find myself wanting someone with the summoning mechanic but having no need for the companion.Slightly strange for a class called a 'Summoner' dont you think?!?..... you can just use SM ?
Summon Monster spell is full round to cast, and lasts rounds/level.
Summoner's SLA takes only a Standard Action to cast, and lasts minutes/level.Full round casting puts a big "hit me" target over you, inviting any intelligent opponent to disrupt your casting.
In our campaign, our summoner sometimes dismisses her Eidolon so as to use a series of disposable quick-summoned beasties. (And sometimes her Eidolon vanishes from lack of hitpoints!)
This seems like... too much. You lose some weapon proficiencies that aren't really that important anyways and a filler ability, but gain trap sense, trap finding and full access to all vigilante talents.
Social grace is huge, because it gives you +4 to five mental skills over your career.. on top of being a class that gets half level to a bucket of skills too.
The opened up archetype options are really solid too. Even a meh archetype like Swashbuckler means you get a martial weapon of your choice back and just switch around the sense motive bonuses to acrobatics and saves on fear. A couple archetypes mean the professional would get +level to a skill (spy, smuggler, counterfeit mage, false medium, escapologist, etc.).
It just seems like purely an upgrade over the base phantom thief.
^You're partly right -- since we're going professional nerd-themed here, modify the above (section on Middle-Class Education) with a restriction on Social Grace that it cannot be used on Charisma-based skills.
^Check out Puppetmaster Magus. Yes, it's a Magus archetype instead of a Bard archetype, but it gets close to what you want -- gets the union of the Bard and Magus spell lists (still using prepared casting and a spellbook), plus some abilities that are thematically related but mechanically unrelated to Bardic abilities; a Puppetmaster could go VMC Bard to get some actual Bardic Performance abilities.
I would like to see a hunter archetype that focuses on there animal focus ability and adds more animals/abilities to the list including the ones from the courtly hunter archetype. Also the ability to gain up to 3 uses instead of 2. Maybe even getting greater animal focus that uses magical creatures such as dragons, unicorns, griffons, etc. to get more powerful abilities(maybe 2 uses to use) such a energy damage, energy resistance, breath weapon, flight, healing, etc. Though the magical creature focus one could be it's own archetype.
What I'd love to see...
Dwarven Longbeard
While some may diminish with age, a few dwarves are too stubborn to let something as minor as 'old age' get in the way of striking out old grudges and protecting the clan. These old warriors are greatly respected by their kin, as dwarves respect age, duty and wisdom above all else.
* Skills
- Replace "Ride" with Knowledge (History). Dwarves keep their feet on the ground, and all longbeards are expected to be experts on their clan's history.
- Replace "Animal Handling" with Diplomacy. Longbeards are more than just defenders of the community, they are also leaders. They are the dwarves who pass down their wisdom to the younger generations and who mediate disputes.
- Replace "Swim" with Perception. A good traditional dwarf should be nowhere near the ocean. A dwarf's place is under the mountains, by Torag! However, there are many a danger lurking beneath the roots of the world, and longbeards are expected to ever be on the lookout for dangers that would catch a daydreaming beardling flatfooted.
* Special Rules
- Community Leader: Longbeards use their wisdom score in place of their charisma when using diplomacy on another dwarf. This represents how dwarves respect the age and wisdom of the longbeard, something which other races wouldn't understand.
- Traditional: Longbeards can only take weapon training in weapons with the 'dwarven' category. They are widely known as being particular about tradition, and thus specialize only in the weapons of their people.
- Old Grumbler: As 'bravery', except that it is shared by any ally adjacent to the old grumbler. This represents how other warriors are less willing to flee when you know that an old dwarf is going to complain bitterly about the flighty nature of youth these days.
- Ancient Warrior: Longbeards' stats are not affected by age. However, a longbeard must have a minimum wisdom of 14, as it is their wisdom which makes them respected by other dwarves.
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Admittedly, it's a tough archetype to play. The minimum 14 wisdom means that a dwarf must spend at least 2 points to get it. In PFS this would leave him with 18 left for everything else. Also, as diplomacy is a class skill, dumping Cha into the negatives loses out on a class feature...though the longbeard will still be a silver tongue with dwarves! Which fits thematically, as other races just wouldn't 'get' why the old crotchety dwarf's words carry so much weight with other dwarves. A 'normal' fighter will have an easier time dumping stats to get better fighting stats.
With that said, the extra wisdom plays right into his new skill of perception, gives his "profession" ability a boost, and increases his will saves. So it's still useful. The boost to bravery is also nice, but I don't think it'd be game breaking.
All that said, the archetype suffers from not being able to specialize in any weapon that isn't dwarven. There are plenty of times when that would be really useful. Such as if you want to play an archer. Or if you find that +3 sword of munchkins. The longbeard will still only want to use the traditional weapons of his great-grandfathers.
...and yes, I do want to play this character. :P
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I'd like to see more smart divine caster archetypes - something good but still with a decent number of skill points, maybe even Int-based spellcasting.
Something like the RL cloistered monks? A Divine Scholar, of sorts.
Could be fun to have an Illuminator Wordcasting Cleric along those lines. Not core, I know, but I would have fun with something like that.
The rest of y'all don't matter. ;)
I've been waiting for ages for a simple Footman Knight archetype for the cavalier. Yes, there already a good few mount-less archetypes out there, but they are all a bit niche.
I want an archetype with class abilities that replaces just mount and mount-related abilities (like expert trainer) and are good but broad abilities that are useable in most adventures.
I'd love to see an Occultist archetype that had full BAB, D10 hit die, and kept the focus points and focus powers, but dumped spells. The one type of class that Occult Adventures was missing was a full BAB class. This archetype would fix that oversight.
If any class from OA should have had a fighter's HD/BA then it would have been the Kineticist.
A Vigilante archetype with a Mount/Animal Companion not a Familiar.
Both the PC and the AC have their dual identities.
Basically something allowing to play Adam & Cringer turning to He-Man & Battle-cat.
If any class from OA should have had a fighter's HD/BA then it would have been the Kineticist.
Well, I agree with you but ALOT of things are wrong with Kineticist, it's really a poorly built class with no quick fixes. Occultist otoh, stripping out spellcasting in exchange for making them a full BAB and d10 HD class is a very simple archetype to create.
Dont like the idea of Occultist classes with full BAB for some reason....