Where do monsters poop?

[darth_borehd]

Where do monsters poop? And other questions of realistic dungeon design.

I feel that that having a huge underground complex of living creatures without sanitation facilities, not even latrines, breaks verisimilitude.

When you design a dungeon, do you find yourself wanting to put in cesspools and refuse pits into every area?

What about how they get water or food? Is it important to put in underground rivers for fresh water and mushroom farms to explain what they eat?

Do you feel most players care? Does the layer of attention to detail add anything to a dungeon?

Am I alone in this?

[the David]

I think castles are supposed to have latrines hanging above the moat. As for dungeons, I've yet to try the "latrine is really a Mimic" gag, but if I ever manage to I'll post the results here.

[dragonhunterq]

You are not alone.
Like most things there will be a spectrum of thoughts as to how much it matters.

It is not something I really give much thought to. I really can't see how it adds anything for the most part. Verisimilitude is over-rated (mostly because it is so idiosyncratic, what will break verisimilitude for me will have you scratching your head, and I'm going "why are you worrying over that?" over some other thing that bothers you).
I doubt many (but far from all) players even notice unless it is plot relevant.

[Lemmy]

I always add "pointless" rooms in every dungeon and building, such as toilets, kitches, etc... Many of them don't have anything worthwhile (other than insight on how the inhabitants live or used to live), but I think they make the world feel more alive and less like a stage in a video game (although I do love video-games! ^^).

[lareman]

One thing that has amazed me in Emerald Spire is that many levels have had toilets. There was one in particular, where every other room seemed to be a restroom, and the big bad had a private toilet as well.

[Rub-Eta]

Toilets and latrines are not to be underestimated. They add a lot to a fictional world.
As for monsters, they probably do it somewhere in the corner of the dungeon. If they're the kind of monsters that needs to eat, they probably have a source of food within the dungeon if it's deep enough so that they can't go outside to hunt/scavenge. Water isn't too uncommon underground either.

Does the players care? They too need to eat, drink and poop. And knowing what and where resources are available to monsters and others can be valuable and essential for a party's survival on many occasions.

But don't lose sleep over it.

[Hugo Rune]

I tend to include such considerations. Most inhabited cave systems I design include a dump area inhabited by otyugh, vermin and other such creatures that consume it. Likewise there will be a water supply and food stores. When the PCs enter an area they can scout and set ambushes, knowing that eventually a monster will use the facilities.

[KestrelZ]

1. Only where a ranger (or anyone with a tracking feat) can find it.

2. Who said bags of devouring were cursed items?

3. Anywhere they want, who is going to argue?

4. Much like monkeys, they fling waste at any PC that proves to have an untouchabley high AC - and a low touch AC.

[zainale]

on my characters every time we hide the dm just make the monster pop a squat over where i am hiding and do their business their sure its funny the first time but it gets repetitive and insulting.

also did you not know monsters don't poop it is why they are always in a s!+$ty mood they have constipation.

[Shadowborn]

This is why there are otyughs in dungeons.

[ElyasRavenwood]

Gelatenous Cubes tend to sweep an area clear of organic matter

[My Self]

In pit traps, on pointy sticks. Hope you don't get filth fever.

[Ms. Pleiades]

All monsters come equipped with a portable hole colonoscopy bag, with a contingency placed on it to return to the Acme factory in the event of the monster's death.

[Morty, the Littlest Otyugh]

Shadowborn wrote:

This is why there are otyughs in dungeons.

Or mini-otyughs, if you're on a budget.

[KujakuDM]

Wherever they want...

Usually in corners....

Though in a round room in the center.

[Devastation Bob]

Shadowborn wrote:

This is why there are otyughs in dungeons.

The Poop Fairy takes it away, basically an otyugh with the fey template.

[Tacticslion]

Devastation Bob wrote:

Shadowborn wrote:

This is why there are otyughs in dungeons.

The Poop Fairy takes it away, basically an otyugh with the fey template.

Dude. mini-otyughs with the fey creature template.

Get it right. C'mon! >:I

;)

Morty, the Littlest Otyugh wrote:

Shadowborn wrote:

This is why there are otyughs in dungeons.

Or mini-otyughs, if you're on a budget.

Or if you're into extremely ridiculous classy trends of the wealthy!

(No, but seriously, ladies, if you can get your dog not to poop/pee, and to be perfectly happy while riding around in those things... kudos to you! That sounds like a lot more work and training expense that I care for!)

[Sundakan]

Lemmy wrote:

I always add "pointless" rooms in every dungeon and building, such as toilets, kitches, etc... Many of them don't have anything worthwhile (other than insight on how the inhabitants live or used to live), but I think they make the world feel more alive and less like a stage in a video game (although I do love video-games! ^^).

Most video games (modern ones anyway) have bathrooms too.

[Charon's Little Helper]

My Self wrote:

In pit traps, on pointy sticks. Hope you don't get filth fever.

Maybe that's why all dungeons have pit traps. They aren't really traps at all - they're privies which are discreetly hidden.

[Philo Pharynx]

Build a 10' x 10' x 20' deep pit. Lead a gelatinous cube to the pit and when it falls in, just install seats on top.

I've done this in some of my strongholds.

[UnArcaneElection]

Seems like a smattering of ddungeons all the way back aat least into 2nd Edition ttimes had descriptions of areas used as latrines, whether they were supposed to be used as such or not . . . .

[Wolfsnap]

The poop in the same place that the PCs poop?

[Cuthel]

Poop and Urine are valuable products in a pre industrial society.
Poop= both fertilizer, cooking fuel and believe it or not building material. Go look at what they really made a mud and waddle hut the peasants lived in and then you will know why peasants smelled so bad. And urine is used in tanning hides( You also use brains for tanning but that's another story). So you know what that smell coming from Goblin leather armor now is.
An Idea would be have high level magic item require urine then from powerful monster . Send the players out to get a ancient red Dragon to pee in a bottle to make +5 leather armor

[Cuthel]

UnArcaneElection wrote:

Seems like a smattering of ddungeons all the way back aat least into 2nd Edition ttimes had descriptions of areas used as latrines, whether they were supposed to be used as such or not . . . .

When I got a bag of devouring once, I set it up as a garbage disposal in my Castle.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

darth_borehd wrote:

Where do monsters poop? And other questions of realistic dungeon design.

I feel that that having a huge underground complex of living creatures without sanitation facilities, not even latrines, breaks verisimilitude.

When you design a dungeon, do you find yourself wanting to put in cesspools and refuse pits into every area?

What about how they get water or food? Is it important to put in underground rivers for fresh water and mushroom farms to explain what they eat?

Do you feel most players care? Does the layer of attention to detail add anything to a dungeon?

Am I alone in this?

In all of the movies and episodes of Star Trek (not counting Enterprise) , how many times did we see a bathroom, or even the sonic shower? You know the answer, and you should realize why...because at best, they are distractions from the storytelling.

And if you are limited to X amount of hours at a sitting, do you really want to spend that much time with the bathroom habits of each monster you encounter?

I hear that Myfarog is the game to go if you're looking for obsession on those kinds of details.

[David knott 242]

On the other hand, Tywin's toilet in Game of Thrones was an essential part of his final scene.

[Wheldrake]

Does an owlbear shi1 in the woods?

Most critters won't shi1 where they sleep, that's for sure.

Really, it could be a relevant question in any kind of tracking situation, finding a critter's lair, deducing its diet, maybe even finding loot, for those beast which tend to swallow adventurers whole, and leave the undigestible bits in their wake.

So I suggest that latrines, offal and spoor be present each and every time that the DM or players choose to make it a relevant and important question for the events in progress. And the rest of the time... who cares?

[johnnythexxxiv]

Everyone poops, it's just a matter of where. Generally intelligent creatures will have some sort of restroom or designated s#&*ting street but animal level intelligence creatures generally don't bother with putting in the effort unless trained. Having said that, while touring Peru, over the course of a couple weeks I got to witness a herd of wild llama consciously designate a specific spot within a temple as their washroom whenever they grazed nearby.

[Lemmy]

Sundakan wrote:

Lemmy wrote:

I always add "pointless" rooms in every dungeon and building, such as toilets, kitches, etc... Many of them don't have anything worthwhile (other than insight on how the inhabitants live or used to live), but I think they make the world feel more alive and less like a stage in a video game (although I do love video-games! ^^).

Most video games (modern ones anyway) have bathrooms too.

Yes, IIRC, that trend started with 007 Goldeneye for the N64... Butt hat said, many D&D-styled games lack that idea of "realistic scenery" and instead just turn buildings into multi-leveled dungeons/mazes.

[remoh]

Luckily most modern dungeons are inhabited by the furry dung beetle. This insect is only 1 inch long and flightless. It eats poop and pee. In turn many dungeon denizens eat the beetle, when adventures are in short supply.

[Tacticslion]

Lemmy wrote:

Butt hat said,

Man, I spent a couple minutes trying to figure out if you were insulting someone or that was just their names. Heh.

"But that said," indeed... >.>

EDIT: Don't get me wrong... this his hilariously appropriate for this thread...

[Lamontius]

crap thread

[Scott Wilhelm]

I like to consider the ecology of my wildernesses, including my dungeons. I envision a food web and the lifestyles of the sundry inhabitants. Sometimes, I have a balanced ecosystem. Sometimes, the point of the adventure is that the ecosystem is not balanced, and that is why the PCs are there. Sometimes, the players run the hazard of upsetting the balance, creating more problems than they solve.

To otyughs and gelatinus cubes, I would add black puddings.

[Randarak]

Tacticslion wrote:

Lemmy wrote:

Butt hat said,

Man, I spent a couple minutes trying to figure out if you were insulting someone or that was just their names. Heh.

"But that said," indeed... >.>

EDIT: Don't get me wrong... this his hilariously appropriate for this thread...

This made me spit water on my monitor. Thank you.

[chopswil]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I would add black puddings.

only after a rough night of drinking

[Hark]

Shadowborn wrote:

This is why there are otyughs in dungeons.

I seem to recall a lot of old D&D adventures had pits with otyughs in them. It's really a good sanitation measure.

[DungeonmasterCal]

I almost never run monster filled dungeons anymore, but when I do, certain areas are pure cesspits.

[wraithstrike]

I've seen a few published adventures with toilets.

[quibblemuch]

Why do you ask? Trying to get back your last PC's gear?

[lucky7]

They sell it to wizards, who turn it into poo golems.

[doctor_wu]

Have a really nice chamberpot that is a work of art as treasure as well. I seem to recall a lot of old D&D adventures had pits with otyughs in them. It's really a good sanitation measure.

[Vlaeros]

lucky7 wrote:

They sell it to wizards, who turn it into poo golems.

Ahem. The official term is "Crap Golem. Plebian.

[Voin_AFOL]

My Self wrote:

In pit traps, on pointy sticks. Hope you don't get filth fever.

Careful if your group by some chance happens to include a 'Nam vet...

Punji stick

[Voin_AFOL]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

In all of the movies and episodes of Star Trek (not counting Enterprise) , how many times did we see a bathroom, or even the sonic shower? You know the answer, and you should realize why...because at best, they are distractions from the storytelling.

And if you are limited to X amount of hours at a sitting, do you really want to spend that much time with the bathroom habits of each monster you encounter?

I hear that Myfarog is the game to go if you're looking for obsession on those kinds of details.

Well, that's the thing: ST is about diplomats, scientists, & explorers who maintain an air of dignity about them.

TTRPG adventurers won't hesitate to turn a privy into a tactical advantage (it's where even the toughest badass lets down their guard for obvious physical reasons). When the guard squats over a bucket & drops their pants to take care of business, they're a flat-footed target & can't move at more than 1/2 speed unless they take a move action to pull their pants back up. The GM just needs to hold up their end of the deal & send the guards on a potty break once in a while. If you're feeling particularly nasty, you can cast some sort of trap spell on the toilet itself to really catch your foes w/ their pants down.

[GreyWolfLord]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

In all of the movies and episodes of Star Trek (not counting Enterprise) , how many times did we see a bathroom, or even the sonic shower? You know the answer, and you should realize why...because at best, they are distractions from the storytelling.

And if you are limited to X amount of hours at a sitting, do you really want to spend that much time with the bathroom habits of each monster you encounter?

I hear that Myfarog is the game to go if you're looking for obsession on those kinds of details.

Normally only when they were broken.

I think I recall an episode of Voyager where they were having problems with the toilets and there were actually lines waiting to go. Normally they didn't have this difficulty, but in this episode apparently multiple toilets and other areas were having problems.

[Tacticslion]

Yurp.

Of course, good ol' Star Trek has those covered anyway...

[Cevah]

Dealing with such biological matters was a hallmark of low-fantasy. Ignoring them, a hallmark of high-fantasy.

The real question is how much time does it take for the heavily armed paladin to disengage sufficient armor to handle such a delicate business, and can he use it with a smite attack?

/cevah

[Scythia]

They go in the corner.

Why didn't I think of that?

[Troll Bard]

We goes stinky poo-poo always in da cornerz, what you think we stupid and go in da middle like Phillip J. Fry?- Oh waits, somebody's alread beats me to the punches! OH KAR-DO-BLAG!

Alsos, dump pits wit scavengers, like otyughs, even jello cubes, and even pears o' annyhillation!