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So my Thursday group is gearing up for Curse of Strahd, and after lots of aimless meandering through character options, I eventually decided I like the concept of someone who was a scout in the military (soldier background).
So that means I want someone with a "military" feel, and who is good at Stealth (and probably Perception). I'll probably also customize the background to get languages, since a scout needs to be able to understand what's going on in order to report on it.
But how do I build this guy? One thought I had was I could take the feat that lets you not suffer disadvantage on Stealth in medium armor. This would let me be sort of an "armored sneak", which kind of helps the military feel. But on the other hand, it means being a human (for the feat) and taking a class that has at least medium armor proficiency. This in turn means I won't have darkvision (and therefore can't really scout out anyplace dark) and won't have the rogue's expertise (and therefore wouldn't actually be any better at Stealth than anybody else). So it's a little hit and miss.
Alternatively, I could be an elf rogue. This gets me the darkvision for scouting, and expertise for better Stealth. So then I'm better at actually scouting, but the feel of the rogue doesn't really make it feel like my scouting comes from a military context.
I had some multiclass ideas, but we're starting at 1st level, so anything that's supposed to be based on my backstory needs to be represented in a single class.
Any ideas?
You might check the Kits of Old UA, which had a scout fighter subclass, oh, wait, it's a martial archetype when it's a fighter; anyhow, here's a link. Hope it helps. :)
Edit: Another UA featured the skirmisher ranger, which seemed a bit OP to me, but god bless you if you can convince your DM.
A Mountain Dwarf rogue could start with medium armor, and get the Stealth expertise, and also get you Darkvision. Medium Armor Mastery could easily be your first feat.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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You might check the Kits of Old UA, which had a scout fighter subclass, oh, wait, it's a martial archetype when it's a fighter; anyhow, here's a link. Hope it helps. :)
Edit: Another UA featured the skirmisher ranger, which seemed a bit OP to me, but god bless you if you can convince your DM.
Probably won't be able to take a look until I get home in about 8 hours, but thanks!
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Half Elf Bard and take the College of Valor when you get to the proper level. You will even get to double your proficiency bonus on 2 skills at level 3 (and another 2 at level 10). Not as heavily skilled as a rogue, but you get magic to make up the gap.
I thought of that, but it runs into the issue of it having allegedly background-oriented features (medium armor, expertise) that I don't actually have yet (starting at 1st level) and therefore can't have actually been part of my background.
If we were starting at 3rd, I would be seriously considering this idea.
A Mountain Dwarf rogue could start with medium armor, and get the Stealth expertise, and also get you Darkvision. Medium Armor Mastery could easily be your first feat.
I thought of that too. The idea is... intriguing. Downside is I'd have to be a dwarf.
Oh, is this one of those things where you have to pick between getting the mechanics you want, and having the right words at the top of your character sheet?
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Oh, is this one of those things where you have to pick between getting the mechanics you want, and having the right words at the top of your character sheet?
If you're referring to the dwarf thing, then no, I just don't really like dwarves. :/
Or if you're speaking more generally, then still no; it's a matter of not being able to find a bundle of mechanics that are all available simultaneously at 1st level which can cover all the bases of the original concept. EDIT: And also trying to avoid mechanics that clash with the concept, such as the infamous "every rogue ever knows Thieves' Cant regardless of whether they have any connection to thieves at all".
Oh, is this one of those things where you have to pick between getting the mechanics you want, and having the right words at the top of your character sheet?If you're referring to the dwarf thing, then no, I just don't really like dwarves. :/
Or if you're speaking more generally, then still no; it's a matter of not being able to find a bundle of mechanics that are all available simultaneously at 1st level which can cover all the bases of the original concept.
No, I was referring to your complaint about the "feel" of the rogue.
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No, I was referring to your complaint about the "feel" of the rogue.Oh, is this one of those things where you have to pick between getting the mechanics you want, and having the right words at the top of your character sheet?If you're referring to the dwarf thing, then no, I just don't really like dwarves. :/
Or if you're speaking more generally, then still no; it's a matter of not being able to find a bundle of mechanics that are all available simultaneously at 1st level which can cover all the bases of the original concept.
The 5E rogue carries some very specific mechanical baggage. For instance, every rogue ever speaks Thieves' Cant, which doesn't mesh with every concept that might want some of the rogue's other abilities. Every 5E rogue also knows how to pick locks and uses the same precision- and ambush-oriented combat style. Not every concept that calls for a lightly-armored nonmagical skill monkey is going to make sense as knowing all the ins and outs of burglary.
If 3rd party stuff is allowed, you could use my 5e Factotum class.
Choose the Knack for Warfare and you'd get the medium armor proficiency, choose the Knack for Espionage and you get your stealthiness.
Only problem with that route is that it takes 11 levels to get both of those knacks running side-by-side...
But testing it would be mighty helpful to me ;)
Outside of that...
The Scout Fighter "kit" was pretty great. Allows you to use Mastery Dice to do scout-y things.
That's about all my 2cp can do, though :(
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The more I think about it, the more I'm liking the idea of revising the concept to be a member of an unaffiliated guerilla team instead of a formal military. Meshes pretty well with an elf rogue, probably with some version of the Outlander background.
Thanks for the suggestions anyway, folks. :)
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Sounds like you're sorted, but there's a section in the DMG (which I believe you haven't got so probably don't know about) on customising classes.
It encourages DMs to tweak classes to allow PCs to build the character they're looking for (making a poisoner who is a rogue with poison kit expertise instead of thieves' tools - stuff like that).
The kind of thing I'd imagine here would be a rogue with a complicated signalling system in lieu of thieves' cant. Hand signals, markings on trees, that kind of thing - familiar to others in your army/organisation.
In my opinion, that section is excellent 'food for thought' on this kind of issue.
FWIW, the dwarf rogue would have been my suggestion barring any racial preferences.
I think the way to approach this is to ignore where you get your abilities from and consider the character as an entire person rather than a subset of ability locations. It'll help with the visualization of the concept.
From there, talk with your GM about swapping out parts of the class you don't like for equivalent things you do like.
For example, the background customization section says that tool proficiencies and languages are fairly equal, so you can swap out theives cant and lock pick tools for two different tools or two languages or one of each.
I try to work with my players a lot to help them get the concept they want. Heck, for a player who wanted to be an investigator, I modified a home-brew rogue archetype and designed a new background feature for him.
Is there a reason you're not going ranger?
Stealth + armor + eventual choice of combat styles + an extra skill point. Elf gives you free Perception, human gives you any one skill, and half-elf gives you 2 free skills.
Unearthed Arcana or Elemental Evil Players Guide might have more race options.
EDIT:
Alternatively, go barbarian and not worry about armor, or half-elf paladin (of vengeance) with racial Perception and Stealth. And just save up for a breastplate or whatever armor also lacks Stealth Disadvantage.
Or monk. At 5th level, you can get four attacks some rounds for 1d6+Dex/Str mod each. I've seen one in action, and it can be pretty devastating.
Is there a reason you're not going ranger?
Stealth + armor + eventual choice of combat styles + an extra skill point. Elf gives you free Perception, human gives you any one skill, and half-elf gives you 2 free skills.
Ha. I noticed this thread while at work, and was intending to ask the exact same question :)
I know the Ranger class cops a lot of flak in 5th edition, however while it isn't a paragon of class design, it is very powerful.
The Beastmaster unfortunately falls into the old 3.5 paradigm of "take a monster and add X" rather than the template and advancement system of pathfinder... and is generally just more of a headache than is really worthwhile. The Hunter, however, is a potent beast.
The issue with the Ranger is not the favored enemy changes (which most of the hew and cry about the class I've seen seemed to focus on), but the fact that most of its best abilities are obtained very early on, making the later levels comparatively lackluster. This also means that it is great for multiclassing.
Our party's ranger is the main damage dealer, and we have an eldritch knight, arcane trickster, a berserker barbarian, a blaster divination wizard, (and my Life Cleric, not that he matters!).
Most of the traditional ranger class features are kind of hidden in their spells. For example, hunters mark.