Authoritative spell is nice with a no-save spell, but best of all with a no-save no-attack roll spell. Deja vu may not be on the base magus list but a few like mindblades can access it.
Something that I haven't seen pointed out on the guide or this thread is the fact that Nature-Bonded can stack with Staff Magus.True... I've only listed combinations if both archetypes are rated green or better. I suppose you refer to the staff's AC bonus and the naturebond's Barkskin spell and merged familiar. It takes quite a lot of levels to get going, though. You might get a more effective defense with the Spell Shield or Flamboyant arcana, neither of which the naturebond can use...
Oaken Staff - albeit expensive - seems to be one of the best items with the Nature-Bonded/Staff Magus combination.Why is that, though? Staff Magus works better with a regular staff, and Barkskin is already on the naturebond's list.
How long would it take to receive 40k gold in PFS?Around level 8.
Haha, sorry... I forgot to mention the whole reason /why/ I was looking into stacking the two archetypes to begin with. I'll be perfectly honest, its because Shillelagh has been on my mind for a while now, and there are only 3 ways to get it on the Magus's Spell List (1 level Druid Dip, Nature-Bonded Magus, or Fey Magic).
I might be wrong, but 2d6+1 seems like the highest flat damage a Magus can get - not including crit weapons?
Sorry, I had a level 1 go through three adventures with Shillelagh and I'm hooked... Unfortunately, Shillelagh looses luster quickly due to the "non-magical equipment" restriction.
If the point of your idea is shillelagh rather than magus you might find the green scourge druid to your liking.
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I might be wrong, but 2d6+1 seems like the highest flat damage a Magus can get - not including crit weapons?
Yes, other than Eldritch Scion + Abyssal + bastard sword.
That's a pretty nice combo, yes. The main downside is that Naturebound doesn't get the enchant weapon ability, and that the Staff Magus's defense depends on your (low) enhancement bonus.
I still don't see the point of the oaken staff though.
@avr - I was actually thinking of a 1-level dip. Hence the reason I posted my question in the Rules and Questions section.
@Kurald Galain - I'm presuming the level 4 Eldrich Blood ability? Pretty good ability, and 2d8 is a pretty good Damage for it. I hadn't thought of Eldritch Scion honestly.
Regarding the Oaken Staff - It is the /only/ Magic Weapon that can be enhanced by Shillelagh in the game. Plant Growth is also stupidly fun when you're the only one unaffected by the spell. Granted, it'll still only be a +2 Staff in total, it has some pretty fun stuff once you /are/ able to get it.
Wow, now wonder Authoritative Spell isn't PFS-legal . . . .
Also see Stygian Spell, if you're into that kind of thing.
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Nothing from Planar Adventures is legal yet. But I think there's a good chance Authoritative Spell doesn't get made legal. A Magus can find ways to make use of it, but it would be devastating on a Witch. Ill Omen is a single target spell with no save. Suddenly for a third level spell slot, you're giving a no save roll twice take the lowest and forbidding them from attacking on their next round.
Deja Vu does seem like a good use for it. Authoritative Deja Vu and prevent melee attacks on a melee enemy. So they have to spend their turn doing something other than attacking you, and then they have to do it again the next round. Nice. I'll keep an eye on this for my Mindblade, if it does happen to end up legal.
Well, I've played around with the Eldritch Scion Magus for a bit now. Specifically the build I asked here earlier, the Bloodrager 1/ES rest.
It seems to work really well and is fun to play. Kind of like the better-oiled barbarian cousin of my old Pal/Sor/Eldritch Knight build. The magus keeps things in a tighter package and works out of the gate, not just level 8+. Now, though your guide doesn't indicate it, my reading of the rules text seems to indicate that you could actually add the Bladebound archetype to Eldritch Scion. They only overlap on Arcane Pool, and ES specifically says on Eldritch Pool description that it counts as Arcane pool for all things that modify Arcane Pool. Thoughts?
Moving on, since I normally hate prepared casters, the Eldritch Scion was the perfect solution, with the Bloodrager dip to give a little more melee punch. Now I'm wondering if it would be smart to invest in 4 levels of Dragon Disciple at around level 9, to really pump that strength.
I already went Abyssal Bloodline for the melee and later strength buffs, and my GM would let me crossblood that into Dragon bloodline for DD. What I'm wondering is if the +4 Str boost and some other nice DD benefits are worth it. Magus seems like it doesn't suffer from a 1 level caster drop like pure casters would. The 1 level Bloodrager from the start certainly hasn't bothered me any. Plus the bloodline powers would still keep on trucking. If I went DD, at level 16 I could get really silly STR stats. Like around 50.
Following that, I had a second question. Originally my resistance to using the Magus, although I really like the Gish type characters, was twofold. First, it's a prepared caster. Hate those. Second, and more importantly, it doesn't get 9th level spells. Now, my experience with the Eldritch Scion above has convinced me that it's a really fun option for any game I don't foresee going past level 15. All the best features of a Sorc-based multiclass gish, but works better.
Still for high-level play the lack of 9th level spellcasting is really painful. To address this, I reread your guide and some other stuff for options to address this, when I came across this. The Hexcrafter archetype has access to a Witch Grand Hex at level 18. Wait, it's been a while since I read Witch but wasn't there something there... why yes, there is. Specifically the Summon Spirit Grand Hex. Use a standard action, pay a couple thousand, get a HD 18 humanoid ghost helper of your choice. Can even have more than one out if you like.
Now... this, this is huge. It basically means that at level 18, the Hexcrafter Magus gets easy access to ALL the spell lists, all the way up to level 9 spells. Bam, the biggest endgame problem of the Magus addressed. Why is the Hexcrafter not more than blue? For high-level play, it should basically be the basic Magus chassis to build around. You really should consider making especial mention of the Summon Spirit Hex's potential in your Hexcrafter description.
I missed it completely the first time I read the guide.
Annoyingly, it means I'm stuck with a prepared caster magus, but for that kind of endgame power, I can deal. On a related question, the Hexcrafter archetype removes Spell recall, but not improved one. Does this mean that at level 11, you get the improved version as normal despite not having the basic one?
That's all for now, thank you in advance. This seems the best thread for asking advice on Magus topics.
...though your guide doesn't indicate it, my reading of the rules text seems to indicate that you could actually add the Bladebound archetype to Eldritch Scion. They only overlap on Arcane Pool, and ES specifically says on Eldritch Pool description that it counts as Arcane pool for all things that modify Arcane Pool. Thoughts?
That means you can get things like the "Bane Blade" arcana, but the fact that each archetype modifies your AP prohibits you from taking both archetypes. Probably not super overpowered in a home game, but technically they don't stack.
Following that, I had a second question... <Hexcrafter is awesome, why not rated higher?>
It's rated pretty high, and the ability you're talking about comes online at waaaay high levels. Most people don't play there. I'm pretty sure the guide does say "hexcrafters are awesome" a few times.
On a related question, the Hexcrafter archetype removes Spell recall, but not improved one. Does this mean that at level 11, you get the improved version as normal despite not having the basic one?
If an archetype takes away XX-1, but doesn't take away XX-2, then when you would normally get XX-2 you instead get XX-1. This means you don't get improved spell-recall, but you do get regular spell-recall at level 11 as a hexcrafter.
Hope I helped a bit.
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Now I'm wondering if it would be smart to invest in 4 levels of Dragon Disciple at around level 9, to really pump that strength.
Not really, I'd say. It's not just about the caster level, you'd also miss out on improved spell recall, better weapon enchantment, and the level-9 and level-12 arcana. Other than its strength boost, DD just doesn't do a lot.
Specifically the Summon Spirit Grand Hex. Use a standard action, pay a couple thousand, get a HD 18 humanoid ghost helper of your choice. Can even have more than one out if you like.
I'm not convinced that would work. Yes, you can summon a ghost, but that doesn't automatically mean that the ghost of an 18th-level caster can be found or that it's willing to do exactly what you want. The archetype already has the highest rating, anyway.
the Hexcrafter archetype removes Spell recall, but not improved one. Does this mean that at level 11, you get the improved version as normal despite not having the basic one?
He gets the basic version at L11, not the improved one.
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From the Planar Adventures book, added the feats Authoritative Spell (blue, and likely to be banned in PFS), Blissful spell (green), Chaos Reigns (green), Grasping Tail (green), and Wanderer's Fortune (blue); and the spells Ether Step (green) and Infuse Self (green). And a note that elves can get +1 to saves as an alternate racial ability.
Strange thing about Authoritative Spell (and Stygian Spell) is that they already had the template for making it almost balanced (or at least only moderately overpowered) in Dazing Spell (which came out MUCH EARLIER), which not only costs more levels, but also says "If the spell does not allow a save, the target can make a Will save to negate the daze effect" -- wonder why they missed this?
Yeah that is strange. If it ever comes up I'd house rule that. The feat is still blue imo even with such a nerf.
I know of a FAQ/Errata (although I can't remember where to find it in the massive pile of FAQ/Errata) that says this for things that have ranks (like Weapon Training, Sneak Attack dice, etc.), but not for things that are {something}, Improved {something}, etc. (like Spell Recall and Uncanny Dodge -- at least one Rogue or Barbarian archetype trades out Uncanny Dodge but not Improved Uncanny Dodge).
Advise a suitable arcana for the puppetmaster magus?
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Shillelagh has been on my mind for a while now, and there are only 3 ways to get it on the Magus's Spell List (1 level Druid Dip, Nature-Bonded Magus, or Fey Magic).
I've just realized that the Collegiate Arcanist prestige class is another way to gain druid spells, e.g. to gain Shillelagh, at the cost of two fairly weak feats and a wizard dip.
He gets the basic version at L11, not the improved one.Is this explicitly stated somewhere, like in an FAQ or errata?
Ultimate Magic, page 14.
Advise a suitable arcana for the puppetmaster magus?
...anything rated green or blue in the guide? :)
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Thank you for maintaining one of the few guides (excellent as it already was upon release). So few are updated.
Thanks a lot for this great up-to-date guide. Invaluable if you want to understand or even play a magus.
A picayune comment (section "Equipment/Offensive Items"): As the bane baldric gives +2 to attack and +2 +2d6 to damage, the average would be +9 to damage, not +7.
The doc is saying that it has been put in the owner's trash. Why is this? Are you no longer going to be updating it?
^I see this too. Must be a mistake?
Good to hear. Although it is a bit worrisome that Google Docs might have some kind of bug in it that deletes files (just a few days after hearing about the then-most-recent Windows 10 update had a bug that deleted files).
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From the Plane-Hopper's Handbook, added the Aphorite race. I was considering the Planar Mentor feat, but with its requirements of charisma and immediate actions it doesn't fit the Magus well.
As a reader pointed out, you can use Elemental Spell or Benthic Spell to make Frostbite deal lethal damage, which is useful against enemies immune to non-lethal.
^Planar Mentor's Charisma requirement wouldn't be so bad for an Eldritch Scion Magus, but the limited uses per day hurt (although at least that means it eats only a few Immediate Actions per day), and the benefits aren't that great unless you keep paying feats to upgrade it (it's yet another feat chain . . . surprise, surprise).
Just stumbled across the Sorrowblade archetype -- seems fairly powerful for debuffing, although unfortunately it isn't legal for combining with Hexcrafter (both replace or alter Magus Arcana), and beware of a campaign in which many of your non-minion opponents have good Will Saves (both Magus Arcana substitutes target the opponent's Will Save).
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Nice catch, but I'd call this archetype fairly lacklustre. For inflicting shaken, the Enforcer feat is better since it doesn't give a saving throw, can frighten, and doesn't eat your pool points. Cruel is nice, but is easily bought for your main weapon. I'd rate this yellow but leaning towards red.
Question (that may have been asked before): Could you, RAW/RAI, use Spell Combat with a Fauchard if you have the Quarterstaff Master feat and the Spear Dancing Spiral feat?
I can't see why not, you're actually wielding it with 1 hand (thus your other hand is free).
The way I read it though, when you're wielding it 1 handed it loses reach quality, so it ends up as a lot of feats to have a 1d10/18-20 weapon (effectively +2 damage from a scimitar). If you plan on switching you reach then it could be worth it.
^Spear Dancing Style removes the Reach property, and then Spear Dancing Reach adds it back, but at the cost of a Swift Action each round you use it. Not a good trade for a Magus, in addition to being highly expensive on feats.
The reason I ask, is that it could be interpreted as you wielding it AS a one-handed weapon, but the inherent property of the weapon is still two-handed, thus negating spell combat.Question (that may have been asked before): Could you, RAW/RAI, use Spell Combat with a Fauchard if you have the Quarterstaff Master feat and the Spear Dancing Spiral feat?I can't see why not, you're actually wielding it with 1 hand (thus your other hand is free).
The way I read it though, when you're wielding it 1 handed it loses reach quality, so it ends up as a lot of feats to have a 1d10/18-20 weapon (effectively +2 damage from a scimitar). If you plan on switching you reach then it could be worth it.
Well for reference the STAFF MAGUS gets Quarterstaff Master feat at level 1 and doesn't lose spell-combat (seemingly given that feat so that they can use a 2-handed weapon in 1 hand while using spell-combat). Since that's the feat you're using i think you're fine.
Also, why would it lose reach? I don't read anything in those two feats that says the weapon loses any particular quality. A quarterstaff is not a reach weapon to begin with (at least in game mechanics) so when wielding it one-handed (and applying that ability to the fauchard) it doesn't lose anything. But I could be wrong, this is why I ask questions. ;)
As UnArcaneElection said - Spear Dancing Style removes reach, and SPEAR DANCING SPIRAL says: "While using Spear Dancing Style, you gain the benefit of Weapon Finesse with the chosen weapon if it is appropriately sized for a creature of your size category. In addition, you can use any feat or ability that functions with a quarterstaff with your chosen weapon."
Since there are 2 seperate sentences there it could be interpreted differently (you gain the first benefit only while in the style stance, but the second benefit is always on), but the existance of SPEAR DANCING REACH kinda kills that argument.
If you want to use a polearm one-handed with reach, you will need to use Spear Dancing Reach.
If you want to use a polearm one-handed with reach, you will need to use Spear Dancing Reach.I respectfully disagree. Please show me through the rules where the flaw in my logic is in my above post.
Well there is a little room for interpretation there, but as always you should ask your GM. If you're truly being honest with the GM you should tell them what's discussed here and that the consensus (so far at least) is that you need Spear Dancing Reach.
As a general rule, if there's a feat that lets you do something unusual then you can't do that thing without the feat. In this case you're talking about getting a 1d10/18-20 1-handed, finessible reach weapon. That's really really good, and you SHOULD expect to pay feats for it. There is already a feat that lets you get this (and at this point it's only 1 more feat), so i wouldn't argue too strongly against having to take that feat. Note that you can wield it as a reach weapon without the feat, you just wouldn't be able to use spell-combat at reach.
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The rules on Style Feats specify that "You can use a feat that has a style feat as a prerequisite only while in the stance of the associated style." Therefore you must be in spear dancing stance for any and all benefits of spear dancing spiral.
It may be easier to take Weapon Trick Polearm to get a one-handed reach weapon. It gives some penalties, but Weapon Trick + Focus + Specialization is still fewer feats than the whole Spear Dancing line, and doesn't eat your swift actions.
If you don't care about OAs, then the Lunge feat is even easier; and of course there's the Long Arm spell.
For really absurd amounts of reach, note that all of these stack with each other if you're so inclined.
If you're talking about Weapon Trick (Polearm, Choke Up), I think this won't work with Spell Combat, because it requires that you have nothing in your other hand, and Spell Combat is equivalent to having something in your other hand according to the Errata on Slashing Grace and Fencing Grace, which also require you to have nothing in your other hand.
* * * * * * * *
By the way, keep an eye out for a new Magus archetype in the Martial Arts Handbook (currently too new to be on Archives of Nethys). Sounds like it might be better than the current version of the Esoteric (not sure if this new archetype is a totally new archetype or a rework of the Esoteric.
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If you're talking about Weapon Trick (Polearm, Choke Up), I think this won't work with Spell Combat,
That's a fair point, but note the difference between Slashing/Fencing Grace (which doesn't work "any time another hand is otherwise occupied" which even excludes a third or fourth hand), Dervish Dance (which doesn't work when "carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand" and which does work with spell combat), and Weapon Trick (which works "as long as you do not make attacks with your other hand").
You could make a case either way. And WT gives you -2 to hit and damage so it doesn't strike me as an overpowered interpretation.
By the way, keep an eye out for a new Magus archetype in the Martial Arts Handbook (currently too new to be on Archives of Nethys).
Interesting. The current standard for unarmed Magus is the Jistkan Artificer, which is already better than the eso. There's still room for improvement though :)
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I've read up on the new Iron-Ring Striker archetype...
Ok, whoever wrote this has missed the memo that a vanilla Magus can already fight unarmed pretty well, that spellstrike can already be used with maneuvers, and that Jistkan Artificer exists. Downsides include diminished spellcasting; losing your best pool enchantments; forcing your L5 feat to some poor choices normally covered by spells; and your semi-enlarge ability is weaker than the polymorph spells on your list and can’t be used with spell combat. Upsides... well the only benefit you get is a damage bonus to unarmed attacks. And it takes a lot of levels before those become better than actually using a weapon. This probably goes in the red rating bin. Again.
Otherwise, I don't see anything in the Martial Arts Handbook that's particularly useful for a Magus.
I guess we're sort of doomed to filler until Pathfinder 2nd Edition comes out. And what I've seen of Pathfinder 2nd Edition from the blogs(*) hasn't left me very optimistic.
(*)Reading the Playtest documents themselves will have to wait until my work lets up, but I don't expect them to be THAT much better than what I've gleaned from the blogs . . . .
I've read up on the new Iron-Ring Striker archetype...
Otherwise, I don't see anything in the Martial Arts Handbook that's particularly useful for a Magus.
Yeah, the devs seem to think that a Monk's unarmed damage is worth one fewer spell per level. When you consider that unarmed strikes don't have the critical range that makes Spell Strike so good, it's a big nerf just to get an unarmed magus.
The Esoteric is probably slightly better than the Iron-Ring Striker in that they replace some of those lost spells with spell-like abilities. You'd have to really like maneuvers to make IRS worthwhile.
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Yeah, the devs seem to think that a Monk's unarmed damage is worth one fewer spell per level.
Yes, and they're missing the fact that unarmed damage is not a bonus that is better than weapon damage, but it's a patch to make unarmed strikes worth using in the first place. I mean, one-handed weapon damage can be 1d10 right at level one, and weapon enchantments are cheaper than AOMF.
The Esoteric is probably slightly better than the Iron-Ring Striker in that they replace some of those lost spells with spell-like abilities.
Maybe, but it also loses spell recall and feats for the "privilege". I'd go for either the Jistkan Artificer (which has the lowest cost and comes with a free scaling weapon upgrade) or play a vanilla Magus who enchants his gauntlets for unarmed striking (and just spend a feat on IUS).
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Otherwise, I don't see anything in the Martial Arts Handbook that's particularly useful for a Magus.
I recently read the stick-fighting style line of feats from that book which I think a staff magus might have a use for. Stick-fighting style, -counter, -maneuver.
^Amazingly, that feat chain doesn't even have any other feats as prerequisites, and the BAB requirement isn't too hard even for 3/4 BAB.
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Good find. So there are style feats that don't have ridiculous prerequisites :)
I'm not sure if a Magus ever wants to fight defensively (considering he already takes -2 from spell combat) but the third feat is effective and well, you get bonus combat feats anyway. Thanks!
Also, 1000th post!! :D