Is Hell's Vengeance going to tie into Hell's Rebels in anyway? I think the past APs have had little to do with one another.
It would be interesting if Hell's Vengeance explores political ramifications from events in Hell's Rebels.
It's set during the same time period, but it's going to cover the rest of Cheliax. HR is set in one city and its surroundings, HV will be going everywhere but that city its surroundings. It's been hinted that the events of one will influence the other, but we'll have to wait for confirmation.
It's set during the same time period, but it's going to cover the rest of Cheliax. HR is set in one city and its surroundings, HV will be going everywhere but that city its surroundings. It's been hinted that the events of one will influence the other, but we'll have to wait for confirmation.Is Hell's Vengeance going to tie into Hell's Rebels in anyway? I think the past APs have had little to do with one another.
It would be interesting if Hell's Vengeance explores political ramifications from events in Hell's Rebels.
Well -- so much for my Chelaxian character's family being well removed from the events of Hell's Rebels (since they live at the opposite end of the country from Kintargo).
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It's set during the same time period, but it's going to cover the rest of Cheliax. HR is set in one city and its surroundings, HV will be going everywhere but that city its surroundings. It's been hinted that the events of one will influence the other, but we'll have to wait for confirmation.Is Hell's Vengeance going to tie into Hell's Rebels in anyway? I think the past APs have had little to do with one another.
It would be interesting if Hell's Vengeance explores political ramifications from events in Hell's Rebels.
Well -- so much for my Chelaxian character's family being well removed from the events of Hell's Rebels (since they live at the opposite end of the country from Kintargo).
I believe that they'll be unaffected by Hell's Rebels; I believe it's been said that the two won't affect each other that much.
Hell's Vengeance, on the other hand - maybe. I'm sure they'll be fine, though. The innocent have nothing to fear from the agents of House Thrune. ^_^
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Too many players see that "E" in their alignment and use it as an excuse to be a jerk and mess with other players in unfun ways.In my experience (anecdotal, I know, but bear with me), PvP is not a question of good/evil alignment - it's a question of whether your PCs are jerks or mature human beings (aka the "DBAJ" rule).
I note that there are a number of very successful Way of the Wicked games on this forum; and I do not see any evidence that PvP occurs any more frequently in those than in other APs.
As I said, it can be done. I've seen both kinds of evil games - ones where the party could still work together to accomplish goals due to motivation, background, or what have you, and ones where some player decided "tonight's the night I murder everyone in their sleep and make off with all the loot."
I've heard good things about Way of the Wicked.
What if Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance are the first two of an AP trilogy, in the same vein as any number of film trilogies?
What if Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance are the first two of an AP trilogy, in the same vein as any number of film trilogies?
With part 3 being, what? ... the Ihystear Revelation?
Don't get me wrong, I'd be intrigued, but if so, I would hope that they step away for a bit to give folks time to play through the first two first.It would also be a bit different than their normal habit of not having an established timeline of events where AP's affect each other much.
-TimD
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What if Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance are the first two of an AP trilogy, in the same vein as any number of film trilogies?
I was just imagining the "nationwide" events as they play out. Maybe Andoran aides the rebels leading Cheliax to invade Andoran with assistance from a bunch of devils.
Mike
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What if Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance are the first two of an AP trilogy, in the same vein as any number of film trilogies?With part 3 being, what? ... the Ihystear Revelation?
Hell's Judgement, the Neutral-Party AP. :D
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What if Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance are the first two of an AP trilogy, in the same vein as any number of film trilogies?With part 3 being, what? ... the Ihystear Revelation?
Hell's Bells, where a party of bards and skalds bring peace to the land with the power of rock.
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Hell's Bells, where a party of bards and skalds bring peace to the land with the power of rock.
Hah!!
There's an anime/J-video game/manga that deals with that theme (using rock 'n roll for freedom and justice!).
Carry on!
--C.
What if Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance are the first two of an AP trilogy, in the same vein as any number of film trilogies?With part 3 being, what? ... the Ihystear Revelation?
Don't get me wrong, I'd be intrigued, but if so, I would hope that they step away for a bit to give folks time to play through the first two first.
It would also be a bit different than their normal habit of not having an established timeline of events where AP's affect each other much.-TimD
I'd be reasonably certain the developers would have at least 1 AP between Hell's Vengeance and the concluding AP/"episode".
Maybe ... Choirs of Carnage. :D
Actually those 2 APs would conclude the trilogy. Council of Thieves would be Part 1. Thrune is mostly in the background which can be a good thing. It foreshadows that there is a bigger picture beyond what happens in the old capital.
Return of the Arodenites as the third in the trilogy?
Sounds like fun! <grin>
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Part 3 of the Trilogy: Hell's Revolution
Kill the Devil and Take her Throne!
Take control of Cheliax, whether you overthrow one tyranny for a new one, or work to redeem the nation from within depends on whether you were a Rebel or a Revenger.
A capstone Module for characters of 17th level or Above!
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Actually, Hell's Bells would be "Harry Dresden comes to Golarion... and he ain't happy." ;)
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There's a lineup of individual adventure names and authors? Where can I find it?
I was at the panel, so I can actually post this, since I don't think it has been answered yet. Also, Rob kept egging me on all PaizoCon to be more vocal about my participation, so by Thrune I will be!
Adventure 1 - The Hellfire Compact: Wes Schneider
Adventure 2 - Wrath of Thrune: Thurston Hillman (yeah, go me!)
Adventure 3 - The Inferno Gate: Patrick Renie
Adventure 4 - For Queen and Empire: Stephen Radney-Macfarland
Adventure 5 - Scourge of the Godclaw: Larry Wilhelm
Adventure 6 - Hell Comes to Westcrown: Ron Lundeen
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DOWN WITH THRUNE!!!!!
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Painful lack of Crystal Frasier. ;)
She was busy working on kicking off Hell's Rebels with Pathfinder #97's "In Hell's Bright Shadow," so never fear, Crystal is far from absent from this year of Cheliax. ;-)
(The writing of these two APs kinda overlapped a little, so even if Crystal WAS going to write one... she'd be doing so back to back. I think she chose the right one to write for!)
DOWN WITH THRUNE!
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DOWN WITH THRUNE!!!!!*Summons fiendish gorillas*
NOW FEEL THE WRATH OF THRUNE!!!!!!!
Thrunies.
Snort.
Cute little tykes. You try so hard! It's almost a shame you're all doomed. Almost.
Adventure 6 - Hell Comes to Westcrown: Ron Lundeen
*Chuckling* A former 11th level PC of one of my CoT/KM players is about to be soundly crushed methinks.
Awesome.
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DOWN WITH THRUNE!!!!!
Oh! how.... quaint, the peasants have a slogan, i'm not worried we have Wes and Thursty kicking s++~ off, by book 3 it'll all be over and i'm back to shooting shopping montages with an increasingly angry Gorthoklek trying on hilarious outfits.
easy peesy:-)
Love the painting of it in the blog, absolutely spectacular :-)
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Westcrown can't catch a break, can it?
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DOWN WITH THRUNE!!!!!
*provides backing vocals*
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"Book 6: Hell Comes to Westcrown" ... I guess that the Nine Hells were getting annoyed that the Abyss was getting all that publicity from the Worldwound, and wanted their own short-cut into/onto Golarion? :)
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Is...is that a nod to the B movie "Hell Comes to Frogtown"???
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Oh no! Paizo is catering to a group of fans that like something I don't! Damn you paizo!
Also, no amount of slick art is going to make people want to play a game where you roll for your anal circumference. Just saying ;)
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This seems a terrible concept, but I guess it was only a matter of time. Role-playing in general seems to be so jaded and amoral these days, it was clear Paizo was going to cater for this eventually.
Kind of the opposite, really. During recent decades we had games in which people played vampires and ghosts and even demons (and not all of them from White Wolf, because there were non-WW games like Nephilim and In Nomine and Kult). And that's all history now (at least somewhat because White Wolf drove itself off a cliff). About the closest you can find on the shelves these days are tieflings being a core race in D&D.
Indeed, it's from Paizo that we finally got to see *good* equivalents to the demon lords, archdevils, etc. of the past, with the Empyreal Lords, and even got an entire book, Chronicles of the Righteous, dealing with them (and books like Champions of Virtue).
There've been, what, *fifteen* Adventure Paths (and dozens of stand alone adventures) in which a good party is the default assumption?
I hardly think a single Adventure Path in which an evil party is the default assumption is a portent of some sort of apocalypse-presaging decaying of moral standards with dogs and cats sleeping together that we need to wring our hands over and express terrible concern over, just as people have been predicting breathlessly since ancient Rome, when those ungrateful teenagers lounged around all day and didn't respect their elders like they did in the magical glory days that never existed except in the speakers imagination...
And it's hardly a shock that Paizo released the Champions of Purity and Faiths of Purity books a year before the Champions of Corruption and Faiths of Corruption books, indicating that they considered them more relevant to their audience, who are more likely to play good characters than evil ones. There's even some commentary in the Champions of Purity thread that it doesn't guarantee that there would even be a Champions of Corruption companion following up...
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I don't think it's objectively bad.
Just not for us. Just an opinion.
There were already a bunch of things that we were still considering, trying to make the game work for us, considering so may in my group had a really bad 3.5 experience. This is pretty much the deciding factor that it's not really what we were looking for.
Thanks to Kalindlara and everyone else who helped me with my queries anyway.
Out of curiosity, how does 1 AP out of 16 becomes a "make or break" consideration for your group? (19 if you throw the Dragon Magazine era APs into the tally.)
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Is...is that a nod to the B movie "Hell Comes to Frogtown"???It certainly is!
:)
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I've never understood the appeal of making a "This game is ruined forever, I'm taking my ball and leaving. =(((((" post, especially over something so trivial.
Just leave. No need to try and kick up drama about it.
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Oh no! Paizo is catering to a group of fans that like something I don't! Damn you paizo!
Also, no amount of slick art is going to make people want to play a game where you roll for your anal circumference. Just saying ;)
Exactly, I should be able to decide my anal circumference through role-play. *waggles eyebrows*
Exactly, I should be able to decide my anal circumference through role-play. *waggles eyebrows*Oh no! Paizo is catering to a group of fans that like something I don't! Damn you paizo!
Also, no amount of slick art is going to make people want to play a game where you roll for your anal circumference. Just saying ;)
Hubba hubba. ;)
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The secret is everyone needs to be working for a common goal something that would benefit all of them to work together, it doesn't take a goody goody party to make that happen.
Way of the Wicked works so well exactly for this.
Related: groups that don't have a common goal or something that links them to the AP, tend to work poorly in my own annecdotal experience, regardless of alignment. Even if they are all lawful good, if everybody makes, say, Lastwall paladins and rangers with favored enemy undeads and whatever, they'll have little incentives to keep studying about thassilonian stuff in Rise of Runelords, or do pirate stuff in Shackles, or go to the other side of the world in Jade's Regent. Yeah, that tian dude wants to be emperor. So what? My character's whole background is about going to the worldwound to fight demons!
If your party is involved in the AP (ie: you are from sandpoint in Rise of Runelords, your character knows Ameiko in Jade's regent, your background involves something about sailors or pirates in Shackles, etc) then it runs smooth. I bet Hell's Vengeance will be the same, just like Way of the Wicked did. Play a cohesive group, involved with the plot, and it'll go perfectly.
WotW had great success, for a 3PP. I'm pretty sure Hell's Vengeance is going to be a home run.
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The main problem with Way of the Wicked was a bunch of "But thou must!" syndrome.
By the later books you end up either A.) Skipping 90% of the plots or B.) Playing along with a plan that your PCs should well have been able to carry out by themselves.
4 level 15 PCs (A Nosferatu, a Graveknight, a Shadow Lord, and a Half-Fiend no less) don't constitute a big enough threat to the princess for the king to give a s+++?
Please.
Hopefully Hell's Vengeance avoids including a lot of very cuttable Gordian Knots.
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I'm a bit worried with this AP going back to Westcrown. Considering that my CoT players decided to play beyond Book 6 and are ruling Westcrown, will this AP assume a certain ending or statu quo for Westcrown? If I need to assume that certain things will happen to Westcrown, I still have time to sway plotlines towards what Paizo intends for Hell comes to Westcrown instead of retconning their version of Westcrown when we'll play this AP. Thanks James if you can provide me an answer.
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I'm a bit worried with this AP going back to Westcrown. Considering that my CoT players decided to play beyond Book 6 and are ruling Westcrown, will this AP assume a certain ending or statu quo for Westcrown? If I need to assume that certain things will happen to Westcrown, I still have time to sway plotlines towards what Paizo intends for Hell comes to Westcrown instead of retconning their version of Westcrown when we'll play this AP. Thanks James if you can provide me an answer.
The version of Westcrown that will appear in Hell's Vengeance will be brand new, regardless of how a prior CoT game played out, or indeed if it got played out at all. Whether or not Westcrown is returned to your game's status quo at the end depends in large part on choices your PCs make during Hell's Vengeance.
Of course, if you don't want to deal with that at all, you can simply skip Hell's Vengeance. Indeed... if your players are really into standing up to Thrune, they'd probably be more suited to playing Hell's Rebels anyway.
Not every AP needs to be played, in other words. And as with all APs, we won't be hard-coding the results of either Hell's Rebels OR Hell's Vengenace into books to come.
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Thank you James, I'll closely read Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance as they are released then to not be caught by surprise as a GM because I plan on running those 2 also. :)