Depends on how likely he is to notice and how likely a good deity is to save my As.
Creative Director
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Over the course of 100 or so books? That's not a lot at all.Agent of the Grave, Winter Witch...?Need more Shadow/Darkness themed classes and archetypes, and more Evil themed classes and archetypes.We don't really do archetypes or classes in the Adventure Path line...JuJu Oracle, Sin Magic Specialist...look, all I'm saying is that "That's not something we do" just isn't accurate, since I named examples from 3 (four if you count reprinting) different Adventure Paths just off the top of my head.
What I can take from this is "We have no plans to do so for these APs" though?
We have no plans to do so for these APs.
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Creative Director
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Classes and archetypes premiered in Adventure Paths:
AP #2: Spherewalker (prestige class)
AP #5: Ashvawg tamer ("archetype")
AP #8: Justiciar (prestige class)
AP #14: Chevalier (prestige class)
AP #15: Pain taster, demonic initiate (prestige classes)
AP #22: Advance Warning, Master of Disguise (feats)
AP #26: Inheritor's Crusader (prestige class)
AP #29: Pestilence sorcerer bloodline (never reprinted elsewhere!)
AP #39: Juju oracle mystery, Cry of Mercy (feat)
AP #45: Agent of the Grave (prestige class)After this point, such content pretty much dries up. So, it's not really something Paizo does any more.
(If I've missed something, let me know - this was hastily assembled from memory.)
Yup; you'll also notice we did these a LOT more in the early days before we switched to the Pathfinder RPG, after which we had the Campaign Setting line, the Rulebook line, and the Player Companion line. Those books are the best places to expand player options; we've used them to expand options needed in the Adventure Paths even, such as the ninja or samurai for Jade Regent or the Winter Witch for Reign of Winter.
When we DO put in new player options these days, such as the shattered psyche orcale curse, it's because we needed to design a new element to make an NPC do what we want, and rather than just ad-hoc the rules we built them for folks to see. In almost all cases, these developments happen during development and are created by the developer (myself or Rob or Adam) and are not created by the adventure's author, nor were they called for in the outline's creation. So... it's something that happens pretty late in the game, and isn't something we plan for.
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...[examples of classes in APs]...Yup; you'll also notice we did these a LOT more in the early days before we switched to the Pathfinder RPG, after which we had the Campaign Setting line, the Rulebook line, and the Player Companion line. Those books are the best places to expand player options; we've used them to expand options needed in the Adventure Paths even, such as the ninja or samurai for Jade Regent or the Winter Witch for Reign of Winter.
When we DO put in new player options these days, such as the shattered psyche orcale curse, it's because we needed to design a new element to make an NPC do what we want, and rather than just ad-hoc the rules we built them for folks to see. In almost all cases, these developments happen during development and are created by the developer (myself or Rob or Adam) and are not created by the adventure's author, nor were they called for in the outline's creation. So... it's something that happens pretty late in the game, and isn't something we plan for.
Is the shattered psyche orcale curse a coming attraction for Strange Aeons? And while on the subject of mechanics in APs, will Hell's Vengeance have a counterinsurgency subsystem like Hell's Rebels? I think I asked the 2nd question in some other thread, but missed an answer.
Thanks.
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Creative Director
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...[examples of classes in APs]...Yup; you'll also notice we did these a LOT more in the early days before we switched to the Pathfinder RPG, after which we had the Campaign Setting line, the Rulebook line, and the Player Companion line. Those books are the best places to expand player options; we've used them to expand options needed in the Adventure Paths even, such as the ninja or samurai for Jade Regent or the Winter Witch for Reign of Winter.
When we DO put in new player options these days, such as the shattered psyche orcale curse, it's because we needed to design a new element to make an NPC do what we want, and rather than just ad-hoc the rules we built them for folks to see. In almost all cases, these developments happen during development and are created by the developer (myself or Rob or Adam) and are not created by the adventure's author, nor were they called for in the outline's creation. So... it's something that happens pretty late in the game, and isn't something we plan for.
Is the shattered psyche orcale curse a coming attraction for Strange Aeons? And while on the subject of mechanics in APs, will Hell's Vengeance have a counterinsurgency subsystem like Hell's Rebels? I think I asked the 2nd question in some other thread, but missed an answer.
Thanks.
Shattered Psyche appeared in the 4th Iron Gods adventure.
Hell's Vengeance will not have a significant subsystem in its Player's Guide; that AP is actually pretty standard as far as its rules. The big twist there is that it's for evil PCs, and that doesn't really require much new content to pull off.
I can't wait to play my kensai magus, who is a very minor member of house thrune in Hell's Vengance
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I don't know if this has been asked and asnwered elsewhere, but will it actually be possible to run this AP with good characters? I wouldn't mind if it would be quite challenging this way as long as it isn't outright impossible.
Because if it is for evil PCs only, then I'm not interested at all.
edit: Oh well just found the answer myself.
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The only thing I can grumble about is the fact that now, instead of six months of not being able to read the APs as they come in the mailbox (to avoid spoilers so I can play in them), now I have to wait twelve months before I can read the APs as they come in the mail!
A whole friggen year of getting APs in the mail that I can't even read.
Thanks Paizo.
I guess the only real solution is me hurrying up and finding someone to DM these APs sooner rather than later.
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Too many people are missing something here....
How many posts and Threads were out when Kingmaker was announced shouting that you can't publish a Sandbox campaign?!
That Paizo was making a HUGE mistake and the whole thing was a dumb idea?
FAR more, as I recall, than were trumpeting Kingmaker as a good idea.
How many people (myself included) said Techno/SciFi Campaigns are ALWAYS a bad idea and that Paizo shouldn't do Iron Gods?!
And remind me; just how popular is Kingmaker?!
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It's funny, many people are saying they hate Evil-PC-Campaigns and are either skipping this one altogether or making a point to say they have low expectations and are taking a wait-and-see but very probably not interested attitude.
(Understandable, I guess, many gamers out there do, in fact, play their lame PCs like little dweeb munchkins, trying to ruin the game for everyone else, and the Evil (and CN) Alignments give them their pathetic little excuse to act like the sad little jerks they are.)
But this is Paizo we're talking about, here. ...Paizo
For those who don't enjoy Evil Campaigns -- and there are many out there -- trust that Paizo is gonna do a good job and take a look when it comes out.
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I agree with you, Ray - I have little to no interest in running this particular AP, mostly because I'm not especially interested in the subject matter enough to work up the enthusiasm for it. If I'm not interested, then it'll be difficult to pass that enthusiasm along to the players, and that just leads to a lackluster game. However, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't make this game - clearly, enough people have begged Paizo for an evil campaign that they think that Hell's Vengeance will sell enough to cover it for six months of their cash cow. And that's fine! Just because I don't like anchovies on my pizza doesn't mean that people shouldn't make anchovy pizzas. Some people out there love anchovy pizza, and this AP is an anchovy pizza. It won't appeal to everyone, but there's enough interest out there that people will read it.
I am, however, looking forward to reading the AP. I was similarly disinterested with Giantslayer after the excellent Iron Gods, and while the story never truly leapt out at me and screamed at me to run it, I was pleasantly surprised by several parts of the adventure. I loved how the beginning of the AP was a murder mystery. I loved that they included all sorts of encounters that didn't have giants, just to change up the pitch. I loved that there were plenty of roleplaying opportunities in an adventure that was ostensibly about killing giants. I imagine I'm in for the same sort of surprise for this AP. I doubt I'll actually run it for anyone, but I'm definitely ready for a fun ride for the six months after Hell's Rebels!
I'm very interested in running it, as I have never tried to run an evil campaign before. My players are also intrigued by the idea.
The problem is my group will probably finish our Iron Gods campaign a few months before the release of Hell's Vengeance. I hope I can bridge the time between the two campaigns with an interlude of Hell's Rebels (one or two books should do the trick), to set the tone and the background of the country. The problem I see coming with this plan, is that the two Hell campaigns probably will be very different in tone, so that they might not fit together very well.
As for the people saying they don't see themselves purchasing or playing this AP, give it some time and take a look at the product when it's released and judge after you had at least a first look at it. I mean I couldn't see my group running Iron Gods, but we are having a blast, in spite or rather because of the bizarre setting.
From the descriptions thus far it seems like it might be playable by a lawful party if it appeals more directly to the lawful part than the evil part. Afterall, obeying the lawful authority of one over you I imagine would fall under the dictates of a Paladin...even to the point of battling other paladins who are raising insurrection.
You just can't go off and murder all the innocents in order to accomplish it.
I see a chaotic good character perhaps having some serious dilemmas, but for someone who believes in the rule of law or at least law and order, I can't see it being overall that horrible as of yet in regards to the campaign.
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I do wonder if there is a tiny bit of 'cheating' as it were by making the Iomdaeians a more fanatical branch instead of the traditional shining knight, rescue kittens ones. A bunch of 'Hard men making hard decisions/totally out of control' are easier to stab than those who try to beat Thrune at their own game and master the law system for LA Law style shenanigans.
That actually might make for an interesting side-adventure for Hell's Rebels. Instead of batman style adventurers, you have Abadarian law students, Imodaeian watchmen, Bard politicans and other sorts who engage in intense political debates and courtroom hearing to weaken Thrune's grip.
I made the father of my current player character a paladin of Iomedae who is also a Hellknight of the Order of the Godclaw. From what I know of this adventure path, I think it is likely that the father will be killed during these events. What I am uncertain of is whether he will be killed by agents of House Thrune or by the Glorious Reclamation.
I'll probably still subscribe to this, because the gazeteers, monsters, and other articles are usually interesting even if the campaign is something I am not interested in.
I am sure it will be well written, but I tend to be leery of evil parties, because sometimes I don't want to know just how evil my group of players can get...
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Most cohesive 3rd Edition party I was ever in was evil.
Evil means evil.
It does not mean "moronic."
Even though there's not so much as a player's guide, we have an all-LE party forming up in the wings, ready to roll...
Slayer (brother of the cleric)
Cleric of Asmodeus (sister of the slayer, player is doing cartwheels about getting to run a servant of a horrible, horrible organized religion)
Infernal-Blooded Sorcerer (player is delighted to use the Infernal Bloodline without tiresome drivel about resisting its urges)
Fighter (Wants to grow up to be a really nasty Hellknight like the ones we killed in Crimson Throne, Council of Thieves, etc)
Most cohesive 3rd Edition party I was ever in was evil.
Evil means evil.
It does not mean "moronic."Even though there's not so much as a player's guide, we have an all-LE party forming up in the wings, ready to roll...
Slayer (brother of the cleric)
Cleric of Asmodeus (sister of the slayer, player is doing cartwheels about getting to run a servant of a horrible, horrible organized religion)
Infernal-Blooded Sorcerer (player is delighted to use the Infernal Bloodline without tiresome drivel about resisting its urges)
Fighter (Wants to grow up to be a really nasty Hellknight like the ones we killed in Crimson Throne, Council of Thieves, etc)
Are you going to use the CoT 15-level Hellknight PrC, or the wussier 10-level PrC?
Being as this sounds like "FOR THRUNE, STOMP THOSE DO-GOODERS!" and since the guy wants to play a Hellknight, not a fighter, a paladin, or what have you, I'll be allowing the 15-level version.
hmmmm I will wait and see...evil campaign's have never interested me. It seems like there would need to be some rules otherwise the characters will be pillaging villages and burning down the orphanages. I have no interest in that. I guess maybe it could work....will wait and see
My experience with Way of the Wicked hell's me it doesn't work that way
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My experience with Way of the Wicked hell's me it doesn't work that way
Yup. My now-on-hiatus Way of the Wicked campaign featured some of the most interesting and fun roleplaying between the characters, and no pillaging and burning of orphanages happened.
My experience of Evil-focused campaigns is that they work and work damn well as long as the group is willing to look beyond the tired clichés and hobby-created stereotypes and really explore evil and what it means in a fantasy setting.