Best AOO Build


Advice

Grand Lodge

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What is the best class/build for reach weapon AOO combat?

I think that something like a fighter is solid for pure damage but I am tempted to say a 3/4th BAB caster would probably be better since their standard action is worth so much.

This post was inspired by wanting an elf, with combat reflexes weapon finesse and an +X Fortuitous Elven Branched Spear.


Disclaimer: not reach expert just saying what I've seen that has been good.

I'm not sure it's the "best" but anything that can consistently get bigger and bigger with more and more reach with a big weapon is contender. Because of that a summoner is worth thinkin of. There are fighter archetypes that are REALLY good. One that surprised me on how good it was is an inquisitor with a naginata and demon subdomain because his judgements, bane, and domain power give good damage to the each attacks that others may not deliver.

Grand Lodge

Hunter, or Sacred Huntmaster Inquisitor.

There's another thread floating around here with the build and discussion.


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Casts Summon Magda

Reach Cleric, Growth+Animal domain for a mount and the ability to grow when needed. Make heavy use of tactics like tripping, teamwork feats, and (when the time/situation warrants it) enlarging both yourself and your mount to control huge swaths of the battlefield.

Also works for an Oracle (Lunar is ideal), but you'd lose out on efficiently enlarging yourself and your mount, or a Warpriest-- Divine Commander gets a mount, and you can cast Enlarge Person normally on your mount, then Fervor it onto yourself for size growth. Divine Commander also gets the ability to pass a teamwork feat to an ally along with lots of bonus feats (less than a normal Warpriest, but go Human and it's still a ton of them). However, lessened casting.

Silver Crusade

Waves and agrees.


@ Kestral

How is the Warpriest getting Enlarge Person? Also, I thought that the Divine Commander's Mount did not get the Share Spells ability....?


galahad2112 wrote:

@ Kestral

How is the Warpriest getting Enlarge Person? Also, I thought that the Divine Commander's Mount did not get the Share Spells ability....?

Yeah, that's why I shouldn't try to come up with new ideas when I'm half-asleep. My mind went "Well this Cleric can cast Enlarge Person, so of course the Warpriest can!"... yeah, no.

So yeah. Reach Warpriest means no getting bigger, but you get (a lot) more feats to play with.


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Phalanx fighter is my favorite. Grab three levels of this archetype and then you can hold a polearm in one hand while holding a shield in the other. So go two weapon fighting (preferably via two levels of ranger so you don't pump a lot of points into Dex) and the shield slam feats. Then when you hit with your shield and free bull rush the foe, you get a free attack with your polearm in addition to your other attacks. And even if you don't bull rush him, you can 5 foot step away and still spear him. And if you're cornered, you're fine because you can still bash that dude with a shield.

Very fun fighting style, I'm having a ball with a hellknight that rolls this way.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Domestichauscat wrote:

Phalanx fighter is my favorite. Grab three levels of this archetype and then you can hold a polearm in one hand while holding a shield in the other. So go two weapon fighting (preferably via two levels of ranger so you don't pump a lot of points into Dex) and the shield slam feats. Then when you hit with your shield and free bull rush the foe, you get a free attack with your polearm in addition to your other attacks. And even if you don't bull rush him, you can 5 foot step away and still spear him. And if you're cornered, you're fine because you can still bash that dude with a shield.

Very fun fighting style, I'm having a ball with a hellknight that rolls this way.

That sounds totally cool. Care to share your build?

The Exchange

Alchemist 4 and Pole Fighter the rest of the way was a lot of fun to get to Seeker level. Mutagen, Enlarge person and shield potions, heroism, barkskin and fly potions, use alchemical allocution so you don't lose the expensive level 3 consumables, then pole fighter gets shorten grip eventually to threaten b2b out to 15 feet with light fortification (preserve organs).

Greater trip and you are golden, just pump dex for maximum aoo's and the CMB bonus due to fury's fall and str for the hit bonus. If the character is going high enough to afford +4 or +5 to a weapon get the PSFG version of dueling on a +3 or +4 weapon and go to town, I think my fighters trip bonus is at something like +47 when fully self buffed with 5 aoo's at level 11.

There is a PFS boon reward of a CL 15 stoneskin potion, that an an elixir of elemental protection from dragon hunters handbook makes most gm's pretty speechless. Permanent access to these is a riot as they never go away due to the alchemist.

Feather step slippers are a real necessity for these types of builds, look into those too.

This character was able to one round the BBEG from Storval Stairs... +3 adamantine dueling horsechopper critting twice in a row FTW.


Unchained Rogue has free weapon finesse and dex to damage (at lvl 3 I think) with the Elven Branched Spear that was mentioned.

If you're an elf you can take the Rogue (Swashbuckler) for Martial Profiency (EBS). Take combat reflexes. 2nd level you can take the Rogue Talent "Combat Trick" for Bodyguard (the weapons +2 bonus helps beating the DC 10, though without further focus on aid another it's also only +2 to ac), or maybe a feat to help with tripping?

The Tactician trait grants +1 initiative and once a day +2 to attack of opportunity. Not sure if you can apply it after you rolled and found out it wasn't enough... anyway.

It's not "the best" but it's feasable, I think.

Dark Archive

I also love alchemists with reach. Throw bombs and wait for them to provoke.

Warning! You may find that you almost never get an AoO. How many GMs will really provoke.if they can go attack someone else without the same problem? Especially true if your teammates rush past your screen instead of waiting within it.


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I will be the devil's advocate and say that, while yes, reach+size can be nice for battlefield control, it is a problem when you are also trying to be a damage dealer. This is because the gap in regular reach can be handled by a 5' step when small/medium, but when large it is 10' wide.

So you pretty much cannot full attack anything that gets directly next to you with your spear, but that creature can full attack you. That is a problem- it gives them an advantage on par with with your reach at times.

Now, the method I go for involves kiting the enemy using lunge and pushing assault.

Basically, there is a sweet spot 15' away from you when you use reach weapons as a medium character. If the enemy is in that spot, they have to cross your threatened area to get to you.

Normally, when you attack an enemy, you take them out of that sweet spot. That means the enemy only needs a 5' step to get to you, and thus they get their full attack

But when you use lunge, you can attack them and keep them 15' away. That means that the enemy has to move 10' to get to you, drawing an AoO and most likly losing their full attack. That is good offensively and defensively- more AoOs from you and less attacks from them.

Of course, that is for the moment when you first engage. What do you do when the enemy gets close? 5' step back and a pushing assault to push them another 5' back. That puts them back into the sweet spot. So basically, you attack from afar with lunge, wait for them to get to you (and get your AoOs in), and then push them back to start the pattern over again. And they get few chances to really attack you.

And the best part is- this is no turtled monk build. This defense is more like a barbarian with CaGM and dazing assault to stop the attacks from ever hitting him. Even if the enemies decide you are too tough to fight and try to ignore you...you can easily punish them with your 2 handed damage and the ability to full attack anything in a 45' wide circle (with lunge and 5' steps included). You are relevant either way, and you can then layer on all the other fun goodies like trip.

This also has the advantage of being good with most classes, and without the need for someone to spend a resource to make you large. All you need is your 'I hit your twice for that' fortuitous spear, and you are good to go.


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hmmm, how about a samsaran beast bonded witch with an inevitable, arbiter as an improved familiar.

The idea is that, will attack you and find that they do very little damage to you so that, after that the attackers will want to avoid attacking you because their attacks are wasted. So they will want to attack something else. they will try to go around you, and you hit them for strength damage.

Important feats are combat reflexes, combat patrol, eschew materials, silent spell, and still spell. Important spells are enlarge, Vampiric Touch, long arm, defending bone, ablative armor, shadow projection, and scroll of shield other (used by familiar, may need 2 of them).

cast enlarge. you are now large sized and have a large sized shadow.

cast shadow projection, you are now a large sized shadow

Cast the remaining spells with eschew materials, silent spell, and still spell feats. It may require multiple castings to get them to stick.

You have a reach of 20 at level 11

You are able to hex enemies still and lower their AC, Saves, etc..

You take only 0 damage from physical attacks.

You take only 25% damage from magical physical attacks. Half damage
disappears due to you being incorporeal, Half of remaining damage gets absorbed by your familiar. However You don't even take 25% because DR 5/bludgeoning kicks in, and first 5 of each attack gets converted into non-lethal damage which disappears due to you being immune to non-lethal damage.

Lets say a devil hits you for 50 damage with a glaive. Half of that is gone because your incorporeal. that leaves you with 25 damage. Half of that goes to your nearly impervious familiar. it takes away 12 damage. That leaves 13 damage, 5 damage gets blocked by defending bone leaving 8 damage. 5 damage gets turned into non-lethal damage that disappears because your undead and are immune to it. That leaves with 3 damage that you take.

When enemies see that they are ineffective, they will go to someone else, all the while you are draining their strength away.

Grand Lodge

Reach cleric...Good level 1 and Uber powerful COme late game because of 9th level Cleric spells. I really like the Reach CLeric who goes into Sacred summoning route to summon up flanking buddies and more damage.

Tho the Hunter is high on my list as well. Works in tandem with his large+ companion to threaten large areas and can get in lots of AoOs. But come end game the Cleric jumps leaps and bounds ahead with Level 7+ spells and the Quicken spell Metamagic.

Grand Lodge

I recently had a lot of fun with a Monk 2/Paladin X.

Grabbing Monk at first level gives you Improved Unarmed Strike, which will let you threaten adjacent squares while wielding a reach weapon. It's also a nice across-the-board boost to saves, plus you can grab Combat Reflexes as a bonus feat. And Paladins can do such crazy damage; between Smite, Divine Bond, and Litany of Righteousness, I was sweeping up opponents on a pretty regular basis.


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Snake Style.

Doesn't matter too much, master of many styles monk is a good option though as you can skip Snake Sidewind.

Snake Stye: need acrobatics 1, sense motive 3: can immediate action use sense motive as your AC vs an attack. Not the point of this but neat.

Snake Fang: Requires snake style, snake sidewind(skippable if you monk archetype this), combat reflexes, Acrobatcis 6, sense motive 9. If the target misses you you can make a melee AoO against them, if you hit you may make another immediate action attack as well.

It only works with unarmed strikes though but the better your AC the more AoO you can make with your unarmed strike.

This can be done easily with a single monk level dip.

Now on top of this you can do the following:

Option 1:
Go bloodrager, choose the aberrant bloodline.
Level 4 you get +5ft to your natural reach.
Enlarge person as a bonus spell at 7

black blood can offer some neat other bonuses while still giving you the +5ft to your natural reach, but no enlarge person bonus spell, but its on the bloodrager's spell list so no big deal.
Black blood at 12 can also get you "retributive spray" which basically means anything that manages to hit you takes with Peircing/Slashing within 10ft takes 1d8 +additional based on level cold damage (reflex for half)

Option 2:
Be a fighter and stack your AC as much as physically possible. The more they miss the more you can attack.

Finally, works with either option:
Get a polearm or whip (get improved whip master if you go whip as its natural reach +5).

Monks don't have "offhand" attacks and don't concern themselves with having their hands full (as they can do kicks and stuff).

So you can either use a 2h reach weapon for more damage or use a whip and threaten your natural reach +5.

Going bloodrager route will get you a natural reach of 10.
Add whip or polearm and you'll threaten out to 15.

Get the ability of "Enlarge person" to make it 15 natural 20 out. Add combat patrol for more fun.

So now with this you're basically unapproachable and your DM will rain Arrows and Fireball-y death upon you.

But melee who make it through AoO hell will be met with more AoO as you punch them in the face as you laugh at their misses. And black blood punishes anything that does hit you.


Domestichauscat wrote:

Phalanx fighter is my favorite. Grab three levels of this archetype and then you can hold a polearm in one hand while holding a shield in the other. So go two weapon fighting (preferably via two levels of ranger so you don't pump a lot of points into Dex) and the shield slam feats. Then when you hit with your shield and free bull rush the foe, you get a free attack with your polearm in addition to your other attacks. And even if you don't bull rush him, you can 5 foot step away and still spear him. And if you're cornered, you're fine because you can still bash that dude with a shield.

Very fun fighting style, I'm having a ball with a hellknight that rolls this way.

While you are at it, make your Reach Pole Arm a Reach, Brace Pole Arm like a Lucerne Hammer. Take the Antagonize and Quick Draw feats. Use Antagonize to finesse your opponents into charging, then use Quick Draw and the Ready Pike ability to skewer your victim for Double Damage, and if they keep closing in, your AoO gets double damage, too if its part of the same charge.

After you get Shield Slam, get Greater Bull Rush, and all your allies get an Attack of Opportunity when you Bull Rush them back in the zone of skewering for your pole arm. The take 1 level in Cavalier and choose Paired Opportunist as your bonus feat. When your allies get an attack of opportunity, you get one, too. If you position it right, with say a flanking buddy, your AoO can be another Shield Slam followed by another Great Bull Rush followed by another round of attacks of opportunity, which for you can be another Shield Slam....

And while you are at it, take Great Cleave. Cleave through everybody within 10' with your 'Hammer and also everybody within 5' with your shield.

I like the Lucerne Hammer because it does 1d12, high for a pole arm, does piercing and bludgeoning damage, and is both a Reach and Brace weapon. Another reason to take Quick Draw is so you can quickly switch weapons, say swap out the 'hammer for the Horse Chopper with is Reach, Trip, and Slashing and also does very good damage for a pole arm. So between the 2 you have Reach, Brace, Trip, Blunt, Piercing, and Slashing.


Where are you putting the polearms inbetween attacks?


Unchained rogue/Alchemist with an extra arm and accelerated drinker. Glug your potion of enlarge person.

Use an elven branched spear for dex to damage.

Go to town.


Circling Mongoose + Panther Style.


Come and Get Me Barbarian is an option.

Hunter with trip, Wolf, Wounded Paw Gambit or w/e it is called. Basically drawing attacks which provoke , tripping enemies which provokes. I have no experience with reach Cleric though, sounds awesome.


Julix wrote:
Where are you putting the polearms inbetween attacks?

I figure a pole arm can be slung over 1 shoulder via some sort of strap in the way that one does. If the character needs to switch pole arms, he drops the one he's carrying as a Free Action and Quick Draws another.


add fortuitous enchantment to your choice of reach weapon

This special ability can be placed only on melee weapons. A fortuitous weapon grants the wielder more attacks of opportunity. Once per round, when the wielder of a fortuitous weapon hits with an attack of opportunity, he can make a second attack of opportunity with this weapon against that foe at a –5 penalty.


The Aid Another granted by the Bodyguard Feat counts as an Attack of Opportunity, doesn't it?

I just had a thought. Snake Fang, Combat Reflexes, Bodyguard, and Paired Opportunist. Take PO via a level in Cavalier so that you can use the Tactician ability to grant Paired Opportunist to all your allies.

With Paired Opportunist, if one of you gets an Attack of Opportunity, all of you do. With Snake Fang, if anyone attacks you and misses, you get an attack of opportunity. With Bodyguard, if anyone attacks your allies, you get an attack of opportunity. And all that adds up to if your opponent attacks ANYBODY, EVERYBODY gets an attack of opportunity!


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Scott Wilhelm wrote:

The Aid Another granted by the Bodyguard Feat counts as an Attack of Opportunity, doesn't it?

I just had a thought. Snake Fang, Combat Reflexes, Bodyguard, and Paired Opportunist. Take PO via a level in Cavalier so that you can use the Tactician ability to grant Paired Opportunist to all your allies.

With Paired Opportunist, if one of you gets an Attack of Opportunity, all of you do. With Snake Fang, if anyone attacks you and misses, you get an attack of opportunity. With Bodyguard, if anyone attacks your allies, you get an attack of opportunity. And all that adds up to if your opponent attacks ANYBODY, EVERYBODY gets an attack of opportunity!

Holy crap, if you go Bard, you can use the Masterpiece Battle Song of the People's Revolt to give everyone that Teamwork feat as long as you perform.


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So going with this inspiration, I can up with something really quickly on the fly, it's not completely done, I didn't buy gear, weapons and all that:

Spoiler:

Bodyguard Bard
Human bard (dawnflower dervish) 4/monk (master of many styles) 1 (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 59)
LN Medium humanoid (human)
Init +3; Senses Perception +0
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+3 Dex)
hp 41 (5d8+13)
Fort +5, Ref +9, Will +6; +4 vs. bardic performance, language-dependent, and sonic
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee unarmed strike +3 (1d6)
Special Attacks bardic performance 13 rounds/day (countersong, distraction, fascinate [DC 15], inspire competence +2, inspire courage +1), battle dance: inspire courage, stunning fist (2/day, DC 12)
Bard (Dawnflower Dervish) Spells Known (CL 4th; concentration +7)
. . 2nd (2/day)—mirror image
. . 1st (4/day)—cure light wounds, expeditious retreat, saving finale[APG] (DC 14), vanish[APG] (DC 14)
. . 0 (at will)—dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound (DC 13), mage hand, message, read magic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16
Base Atk +3; CMB +3; CMD 16
Feats Bodyguard[APG], Combat Reflexes, Dervish Dance[ISWG], Improved Unarmed Strike, Lingering Performance[APG], Snake Fang[UC], Snake Style[UC], Stunning Fist
Traits community-minded (rahadoum), helpful
Skills Acrobatics +7, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +4, Knowledge (engineering) +4, Knowledge (geography) +4, Knowledge (history) +5, Knowledge (local) +5, Knowledge (nature) +5, Knowledge (nobility) +4, Knowledge (planes) +4, Knowledge (religion) +4, Perform (oratory) +11, Perform (wind instruments) +10, Sense Motive +11, Spellcraft +6
Languages Common
SQ battle dance, fuse style, masterpieces (battle song of the people's revolt, triple time), versatile performance (oratory)
Other Gear 150 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bardic Performance (standard action, 13 rounds/day) Your performances can create magical effects.
Battle Dance (move action) A Dawnflower dervish is trained in the use of the Perform skill, especially dance, to create magical effects on himself. This works like bardic performance, except that the Dawnflower dervish’s performances grant double their normal bonuses, but th
Battle Dance: Inspire Courage +2 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage rolls.
Battle Song of the People's Revolt (Paired Opportunists) Grants chosen feat to all allies within 30 ft. who can hear you.
Bodyguard Use an AoO to use aid another to improve an ally's AC.
Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Community-Minded (Rahadoum) Any morale bonus you bestow upon allies lasts 2 extra rounds.
Dervish Dance Use Dex modifier instead of Str modifier with scimitar
Fuse Style (2 styles) (Ex) At 1st level, a master of many styles can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style. The master of many styles can have two style feat stances active at once. Starting a stance provided by a style feat is still a swift action, but whe
Helpful Aid another grants allies a +3 bonus (instead of usual +2).
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Lingering Performance Bardic Performances last 2 rds after you stop concentrating.
Snake Fang If opponent misses you, make an attack of opportunity as an immediate action
Snake Style Gain +2 on Sense Motive checks, and deal piercing damage with unarmed attacks
Stunning Fist (2/day, DC 12) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Triple Time Your lively cadence puts a spring in the step of weary marchers.
Versatile Performance (Oratory) +11 (Ex) You may substitute the final value of your Perform: Oratory skill for Diplomacy or Sense Motive checks

This really comes online at level 4 when you can get your Masterpiece. The only downside is that at level 4 in the baddie attacks you, no one gets AoO.

Next level I'd probably go Monk again for the bonus Style Feat (not sure what I'd take though) I also when Dawnflower Dervish because you need a free hand for Snake Style and it gave me DEX to damage for free at level 1.

Grand Lodge

druid going into wolf form then having Combat patrol w/ his wolf companion?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Aberrant Blood Conduit Bloodrager works. Wands of Enlarge until 4th.


If you're worried about the enemies getting within your threatened area while you're wielding a reach weapon, I would suggest a simple quick-fix that I don't think I've seen mentioned so far -- armor spikes. Even if you're enlarged, there's no square you don't threaten out to the maximum reach of your weapon. You may be giving up the best set of options you have if you've got the Lunge and/or Pushing Assault feats, but there's no reason not to have a backup. Being *able* to make attacks in every scenario is far superior to *not* being able to attack. In particular, armor spikes on your gauntlets, or just plain ol' spiked gauntlets -- interspersing your attacks with a one-handed spiked backfist every now and again allows you to continue to punish *every* enemy within your sphere of responsibility (bonus points for that reference -- quite a few of them, actually).

Not too long ago my non-archetype reach fighter took the close-quarters weapon training group to make those attacks even stronger in the "worst-case scenario" situations. It's pretty good -- what else was he gonna do, anyway?


I have a couple for PFS that I like and haven't seen mentioned.

The first is an Abyssal Bloodrager, mine is a kitsune Steelblood, but a half-orc is ideal. Power Attack and a bardiche make my single attacks count. Combat Reflexes makes getting near me difficult. Long Arm and free rage enlarges come online at 4th. I can drop the polearm and claw/claw/bite a fool who does get inside my reach. Add in a wand of Shield in a spring loaded wrist sheath and AC isn't all that low.

The second is a Kata Master monk who uses panther style. He can move to the flank drawing an AoO, parry the attack, panther parry for one AoO, riposte for another and then make a standard attack from the flank when it all goes right. This is from level one.


Syrus Terrigan wrote:

If you're worried about the enemies getting within your threatened area while you're wielding a reach weapon, I would suggest a simple quick-fix that I don't think I've seen mentioned so far -- armor spikes. Even if you're enlarged, there's no square you don't threaten out to the maximum reach of your weapon. You may be giving up the best set of options you have if you've got the Lunge and/or Pushing Assault feats, but there's no reason not to have a backup. Being *able* to make attacks in every scenario is far superior to *not* being able to attack. In particular, armor spikes on your gauntlets, or just plain ol' spiked gauntlets -- interspersing your attacks with a one-handed spiked backfist every now and again allows you to continue to punish *every* enemy within your sphere of responsibility (bonus points for that reference -- quite a few of them, actually).

Not too long ago my non-archetype reach fighter took the close-quarters weapon training group to make those attacks even stronger in the "worst-case scenario" situations. It's pretty good -- what else was he gonna do, anyway?

It is still a concern, since the armor spikes are a back up weapon. Fine enough for the concentration checks of a tricky caster, but not much else.

It is comparing your 2 handed primary weapon to a light weapon with terrible damage dice that you will not want to give much investment into. It is fine for the occasional AoO while medium, but I would not rely upon it when large while using a reach weapon.


Best is relative of course. I personally think reach cleric with trip feat chain and the crazy cheap Benevolent armor enchantment and the bodyguard feat is an AoO contender. W a fair UMD be can cast Blood Armor to get stacking bonuses on the benevolent enchantment. Make him a halfing with the helpful trait and he gets another +4 on aid another actions. Net, he is still an AoO attacker but can also throw out +10 AC buffs pretty much at will and only needs a Dex 14 to be effective (more is better of course).

The opti-use is like this (x is bad guy, c is cleric, o is other PCs:

round 1

X

[10 feet+ distance here, party readies actions below, X is advancing]

OCO

C readies attack and 5' step back, O1 and O2 ready attacks:

X [advances to within 10' reach of C]

OCO [C attacks w reach]

X

O O
C[then steps back]

X [advances]
|
OCO [C AoO attacks as X leaves threatened square, O1/O2 attack]

X [attacks]
OCO [if O1 or O2 is target, C uses AoO aid another to buff AC)

round 2

X
O O
C [5' step back, trip attack w greater trip, X provokes from all]

X [stands up, provokes from all, attacks]
O O [O1 and O2 full attack]

Under normal circumstances everyone would get their attacks per usual but with this optimized action economy C has generated an addl 7 attacks for his party in 2 rounds, and potentially +10-20 in AC buffs. And this is just the base, spells (suggest Archon's Aura or Blessing of Fervor) and the aura's from either or both of the glory-heroism and good-archon domains could layers on another +2 to hit for C,O1,O2 and a -2H/AC/Saves for X. I mention this because if X is the BBEG or something hard to trip, instead of the first trip, C could have used an offensive aid another as a std to to debuff's X to-hit.

I have found that daredevil softpaw boots work good with this build. Honorable mention to the energy channel feat w fire domain for Serenrae fans.

One more thing, I haven't tried it, but an aasimar cleric with the channel force feats can push undead dudes back. If he were a reach build with combat reflexes it seems possible he could generate AoO against multiple foes when he channels and forces them out of threatened squares. Many abilities that move foes 5' say "does not provoke" but the channel force feats do not.


Gregory Connolly wrote:
The second is a Kata Master monk who uses panther style. He can move to the flank drawing an AoO, parry the attack, panther parry for one AoO, riposte for another and then make a standard attack from the flank when it all goes right. This is from level one.

I would expect table variation on the Kata Master. You're essentially getting two AoO for the same action. I realize there may be some debate on whether parry is actually an AoO, but people are using it for things like Paired Opportunist. If the GM allows that, they may disallow what you're doing.


For reach+AoO builds, I like a brawler dip for improved unarmed strike and martial flexibility.

Trip at reach is nice, because they provoke when the stand up and again when they continue their move.

My favorite tactic is ready an action to attack when they get into range. Then you get your readied attack and your AoO before the bad guy gets to go.

My reach/AoO build is a Holy Tactician Paladin with dips in Cavalier and Bard (for the masterpiece Song of the People's revolt). I can get three teamwork feats running at the same time. This build also has a brawler dip for "move action to learn a teamwork feat", since the Holy Tactician can pass out any teamwork feat they know. Bodyguard + Harrying Partner is an awesome combo when your team is getting pounded by two elementals (and Outflank and Precise Strike are worthless).

Sovereign Court

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned a whip build. (unless I just missed it) Grab Slashing Grace for damage & since it's dex based - you get AOOs out the wazoo. Use Greater Trip with your whip and watch the AOOs start rolling in.

If you get enlarged to gain reach - unlike a standard reach build, you don't gain a 10ft area around you which you can't attack. (the dex penalty hurts a bit though)


Jodokai wrote:
Gregory Connolly wrote:
The second is a Kata Master monk who uses panther style. He can move to the flank drawing an AoO, parry the attack, panther parry for one AoO, riposte for another and then make a standard attack from the flank when it all goes right. This is from level one.
I would expect table variation on the Kata Master. You're essentially getting two AoO for the same action. I realize there may be some debate on whether parry is actually an AoO, but people are using it for things like Paired Opportunist. If the GM allows that, they may disallow what you're doing.

I haven't encountered any.

One AoO is triggered by the opponents attack roll and the other is triggered by the characters parry roll. It is entirely possible to fail to parry but still get an AoO from Panther Claw. It is the same kind of rules parsing that gets two AoOs from Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp. Any of the previously listed feats should trigger Paired Opportunists just fine.

EDIT: Note that Opportune Parry and Riposte is a deed and should not trigger Paired Opportunists as far as I know. That deed causes more confusion than the rest of the ACG combined in my experience.


Gregory Connolly wrote:


I haven't encountered any.

One AoO is triggered by the opponents attack roll and the other is triggered by the characters parry roll. It is entirely possible to fail to parry but still get an AoO from Panther Claw. It is the same kind of rules parsing that gets two AoOs from Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp. Any of the previously listed feats should trigger Paired Opportunists just fine.

EDIT: Note that Opportune Parry and Riposte is a deed and should not trigger Paired Opportunists as far as I know.

The deed says it uses an AoO, so some say that means it is an AoO some say it's just paid for with AoO

If you think about your Kata Master, let's say you have two characters with Combat Reflexes and Paired Opportunist. Monster provokes from Character A, so A takes his AoO. Character B is adjacent so takes his AoO based on character A's first AoO. Can Character A take another AoO based off of B's AoO? If so then B could take another based off of A's second AoO since it's a different action, and back and forth until they ran out of AoO.

The FAQ about Vicious Stomp does support your position, but how do you (and by "you" I mean any GM who finds themselves in the situation) rationalize allowing that, but disallowing the mess in the above paragraph?


Jodokai wrote:
Gregory Connolly wrote:


I haven't encountered any.

One AoO is triggered by the opponents attack roll and the other is triggered by the characters parry roll. It is entirely possible to fail to parry but still get an AoO from Panther Claw. It is the same kind of rules parsing that gets two AoOs from Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp. Any of the previously listed feats should trigger Paired Opportunists just fine.

EDIT: Note that Opportune Parry and Riposte is a deed and should not trigger Paired Opportunists as far as I know.

The deed says it uses an AoO, so some say that means it is an AoO some say it's just paid for with AoO

If you think about your Kata Master, let's say you have two characters with Combat Reflexes and Paired Opportunist. Monster provokes from Character A, so A takes his AoO. Character B is adjacent so takes his AoO based on character A's first AoO. Can Character A take another AoO based off of B's AoO? If so then B could take another based off of A's second AoO since it's a different action, and back and forth until they ran out of AoO.

The FAQ about Vicious Stomp does support your position, but how do you (and by "you" I mean any GM who finds themselves in the situation) rationalize allowing that, but disallowing the mess in the above paragraph?

That mess is why I don't mess around with Paired Opportunists. Any build close to the edge of optimization hits rules weirdness when you add in other things. I don't play that character often as he has other rules oddities in his build as well like a combined grit/panache pool and I don't like inflicting that level of rules minutia on anyone I don't know and some of the GMs I do.


Domestichauscat wrote:

Phalanx fighter is my favorite. Grab three levels of this archetype and then you can hold a polearm in one hand while holding a shield in the other. So go two weapon fighting (preferably via two levels of ranger so you don't pump a lot of points into Dex) and the shield slam feats. Then when you hit with your shield and free bull rush the foe, you get a free attack with your polearm in addition to your other attacks. And even if you don't bull rush him, you can 5 foot step away and still spear him. And if you're cornered, you're fine because you can still bash that dude with a shield.

Very fun fighting style, I'm having a ball with a hellknight that rolls this way.

Doesn't bull rush preclude taking AOO's, even when you're shield bashing? How are you getting a free polearm attack?


Slashing Grace Whip Kensai with Flamboyant Arcana, Precise Strike, and relevant Whip feats.

Huge threatened range with no "blindspots" so to speak. Can cast Enlarge Person and other spells (Long Limbs) to better increase range, in some cases still getting off a full attack.

DEX + INT to # of AOO's. Can use AOO's to negate attacks against you. Count as a Fighter for feats such as Pin Down, to counter 5-foot steps and withdraw actions. Great mobility with Spell Combat + Bladed Dash or even Dimension Door.

What more do you even need?


isn't the whip non-lethal and thus doesn't threaten?


Lunchbox3000 wrote:
Domestichauscat wrote:

Phalanx fighter is my favorite. Grab three levels of this archetype and then you can hold a polearm in one hand while holding a shield in the other. So go two weapon fighting (preferably via two levels of ranger so you don't pump a lot of points into Dex) and the shield slam feats. Then when you hit with your shield and free bull rush the foe, you get a free attack with your polearm in addition to your other attacks. And even if you don't bull rush him, you can 5 foot step away and still spear him. And if you're cornered, you're fine because you can still bash that dude with a shield.

Very fun fighting style, I'm having a ball with a hellknight that rolls this way.

That sounds totally cool. Care to share your build?

Yeah man, sorry I don't post that often so I didn't read up on this thread a month ago. But if anyone still cares I'll post my build of this guy after I get off work.

Quote: Doesn't bull rush preclude taking AOO's, even when you're shield bashing? How are you getting a free polearm attack?

Dm is cool with it because he thought it was sweet and not really overpowered.


Julix wrote:
isn't the whip non-lethal and thus doesn't threaten?

I mentioned relevant Whip feats, didn't I?

Whip Mastery allows you to deal lethal or nonlethal damage with a whip.
Improved Whip Mastery allows you to threaten out to 10 feet, including the spaces adjacent to you.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

reach+AoO , Goliath druid seems like they would be pretty decent at it.


Speaking of druid, I've made a Druid/Stalwart Defender build that focuses on that sort of thing by turning into a Huge earth elemental and wielding a lucerne hammer. Very nice for tanking and battlefield control.

Goliath druid would work for this too, but they need two more levels of druid before they can become Huge.


Triune wrote:
Domestichauscat wrote:

Phalanx fighter is my favorite. Grab three levels of this archetype and then you can hold a polearm in one hand while holding a shield in the other. So go two weapon fighting (preferably via two levels of ranger so you don't pump a lot of points into Dex) and the shield slam feats. Then when you hit with your shield and free bull rush the foe, you get a free attack with your polearm in addition to your other attacks. And even if you don't bull rush him, you can 5 foot step away and still spear him. And if you're cornered, you're fine because you can still bash that dude with a shield.

Very fun fighting style, I'm having a ball with a hellknight that rolls this way.

Doesn't bull rush preclude taking AOO's, even when you're shield bashing? How are you getting a free polearm attack?

It does until you get to level six and pick up Greater Bull Rush. Once you have Greater Bull Rush the movement will provoke from your allies (though not you). Your AoO comes from the opponent trying to close with you after you bull rushed them and 5 foot stepped to prevent them from being able to 5 foot step inside your reach. This build is only for tactically minded players, if you don't position yourself correctly it doesn't work correctly.


@Gregory: Good to know, it is virtually impossible to find a tactical group like that for me though. I suppose I'm lucky enough to have a DM that lets me do what I want with my character. Here is the build so far in game:

Zelgius Aandon: Human Fighter 3/Ranger 2/Hellknight 6; 3 mythic tiers

Stats
STR 20, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 10, CHA 14

Feats
1: Combat Expertise, Improved Shield Bash, Shield Slam
2: Combat Reflexes
3: *Impale (Made up feat)
5: Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Trip
7: Endurance
9: Power Attack
11: Skill Focus Sense Motive, Iron Will and Improved Iron Will (mythic tiers received this level)

Favored enemy: Chaotic Evil outsiders
Weapons: Heavy Steel Shield and Longspear, backup weapons are a Longsword, Longbow and Dagger.

Longspear has axiomatic and bane (chaotic outsiders). Shield has the bashing ability and the anti arrows ability (can't remember the name).

Fullplate armor has bolstering and balanced abilities.

AC 27, +1 against ranged attacks, Flat footed 21, Touch 12

CMB 16 (+2 to trip, +1 to Bull Rush) CMD 34

Fort 14, Reflex 12, Will 8

*Impale: When attacking an opponent with a sword or piercing melee weapon, you may leave the weapon in an opponent's gut if you hit them. This sickens the opponent for as long as the opponent has the weapon in him. You may remove the weapon as a move action, which gives him 1D4 bleed damage. You must do a maneuver roll to successfully retrieve your weapon in this way.

As you can see he is not very optimized, but I don't really like optimizing too much. It's more fun to just go with your gut with a character.

You want to start off with a basic sword and board guy till you hit level 5, after which you start using the spear and shield. It takes awhile to get this build going but man I am having fun now!

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