That's a good idea. Might as well hit parts you care about and can do faster and leave the other stuff for later.
You can combine mauler with life or stone and then pickup life or stone's familiar spirit ability with spirits gift to have a mauler with both fast healing1 and dr 5/adamantine. That's a pretty effective level 1 tank.
You can combine mauler with life or stone and then pickup life or stone's familiar spirit ability with spirits gift to have a mauler with both fast healing1 and dr 5/adamantine. That's a pretty effective level 1 tank.you cant .
the spirit animal is only gained from the main spirit.
He's referring to the feat "Spirit's Gift", which gives a familiar or animal companion the Spirit ability of a selected spirit for 24 hours. In effect, you could then have a Life Shaman choose the Stone spirit with Spirit's Gift, or vice versa.
My original double-spirit familiar suggestion was Mauler, but Protector also has some compelling abilities for this combo.
It's probably been mentioned before, but Life Link seems to work with the Protector familiar's Shield Master ability.
Life Link (Su): The shaman creates a bond between herself and another creature within 30 feet. Each round at the start of the shaman’s turn, if the bonded creature’s hit points are reduced to –5 or fewer, it heals 5 hit points and the shaman takes 5 points of damage. The shaman can have one bond active per shaman level. The bond continues until the bonded creature dies, the shaman dies, the distance between her and the bonded creature exceeds 100 feet, or the shaman ends it as an immediate action. If the shaman has multiple bonds active, she can end as many as she wants with the same immediate action.
Shield Master (Su): At 5th level, whenever a protector or its master takes hit point damage, as long as the protector and its master are touching, its master can choose to split the damage evenly between them as if using shield other. This ability replaces deliver touch spells and speak with animals of its kind.
Although the Shaman's Life Link has some questionable text, "if the bonded creature’s hit points are reduced to –5 or fewer". This makes it sound as if the bonded's hit points have to be -5 or lower total to benefit from Life Link.
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Although the Shaman's Life Link has some questionable text, "if the bonded creature’s hit points are reduced to –5 or fewer". This makes it sound as if the bonded's hit points have to be -5 or lower total to benefit from Life Link.
As mentioned in the guide, the Shaman version of Life Link is worded differently and, as written, only functions at negative HP (the creature is usually dying).
Like so much of this book, it is unclear. But given that they could have easily done a copy/paste to get the original Oracle text but, instead, we got this version of the hex... I'm pretty sure they intended to change it.
I think the duration is argument enough for making it green, but since you can get the same effect with a lesser duration with either a hex, or a lower-level spell, I don't personally consider it blue. Add to that the fact that the hexes add the value of being able to reapply the effect in the event of Dispels...for me, "Overland Flight" is super blue.
yes, hexs can make you fly, but - they require action to start.
with 1 spell, especially later as you can extend it, you are peter pan,
true. but i fond i cant spare actions.
combats last about 4 rounds - tops.
round 1 is a blink casting so i can survive.
than apply the hex \ cast \ buff .
no time to use the flight.now, with overland flight, i use cast > move action to fly to safety.
some fights there's no need for the blink defense.
I see the argument. I guess another factor is how often you see Dispel Magic thrown around - I see enemies using it rarely in PFS so far, whereas in my home game the enemies use it very liberally.
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The biggest thing I see that you could get from not using many spells is gratuitous use of Divine Interference
Wow. That is a solid feat! Especially on a caster style shaman. We have so many extra spells slots we could use this all the time. I'm definitely putting that on my short list for lvl 11.
There are so many good feats. I swear a new one pops up every day! I'm going to have to sit down with the srd some night and just start going through them one by one I guess, lol.
The biggest thing I see that you could get from not using many spells is gratuitous use of Divine Interference
Wow. That is a solid feat! Especially on a caster style shaman. We have so many extra spells slots we could use this all the time. I'm definitely putting that on my short list for lvl 11.
There are so many good feats. I swear a new one pops up every day! I'm going to have to sit down with the srd some night and just start going through them one by one I guess, lol.
I actually would really like this on a melee shaman since I could see spells going unused (especially if combat starts unexpectedly and there was no chance to pre-buff).
I suppose it is about the same for both build types. Caster shamans probably have higher wisdom so they'll have more spell slots available to burn and melee shamans won't cast as much so they can probably afford to burn their slots as well.
I actually would really like this on a melee shaman since I could see spells going unused (especially if combat starts unexpectedly and there was no chance to pre-buff).
Aye, melee especially benefits from this.
It's a rather meh range, so being the one balls deep in the enemy lines lets you actually use it more, on top of what you said about casting less.Which is why I'm a little unsure about the Chant/Misfortune/Evil Eye trinity. *shrug*
Battlefield positioning is key if you're running a primary debuffer role, since 30 ft is the standard range for all of your non-amplified hexes anyway. (Which is why Fly/Airwalk end up being so key to a lot of builds) So you should be in position to make good use of Divine Interference most of the time. But you're right, being deep in melee means you probably have more potential targets to use it on.
I don't see how any melee shaman could ever have enough actions to make Chant+Misfortune worthwhile. Evil Eye could still be useful if they fail their save, or as a 1 round softener for your allies. But having to use your move action every round to Chant for Misfortune means you're never going to be full attacking. Which, if you're going melee shaman, seems to be pretty counter-intuitive.
As a debuffer shaman though i don't know how you do NOT run the Trinity Hexes. Misfortune+Chant is just so amazingly good at shutting down an enemy. Throw Evil Eye into the mix and you've made it even worse for the DM. Throw in Divine Interference and it feels almost a bit unfair.
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The cleric in our group last week made a statement that i think sums up the debuffing shaman quite well.
"You know when you're in the heat of battle and you feel the pendulum of fate swing against you? The shaman over there is controling that pendulum!"
Battlefield positioning is key if you're running a primary debuffer role, since 30 ft is the standard range for all of your non-amplified hexes anyway. (Which is why Fly/Airwalk end up being so key to a lot of builds) So you should be in position to make good use of Divine Interference most of the time. But you're right, being deep in melee means you probably have more potential targets to use it on.
I don't see how any melee shaman could ever have enough actions to make Chant+Misfortune worthwhile. Evil Eye could still be useful if they fail their save, or as a 1 round softener for your allies. But having to use your move action every round to Chant for Misfortune means you're never going to be full attacking. Which, if you're going melee shaman, seems to be pretty counter-intuitive.
As a debuffer shaman though i don't know how you do NOT run the Trinity Hexes. Misfortune+Chant is just so amazingly good at shutting down an enemy. Throw Evil Eye into the mix and you've made it even worse for the DM. Throw in Divine Interference and it feels almost a bit unfair.
I'll be honest in that, while I've not played a melee shaman long-term, I've built a few. And I feel that the decision to give up debuffing entirely for more damage is partially dependent on your group composition. Building for some kind of Standard Action attack could let you continue to do damage while Chanting.
But yeah, you definitely need some kind of plan for your melee shaman in terms of how much (or how little) debuffing they plan to do.
Hit level 3 on my latest Shaman, so I've noticed a few level 2 spells you're missing. :x
Burdened Thoughts, Raven's Flight, Vine Strike, and Wild Instinct by my count.
Mostly useless stuff, although Raven's Flight could be exceptionally handy at times. Turning Tiny has its moments.
Hit level 3 on my latest Shaman, so I've noticed a few level 2 spells you're missing. :x
Burdened Thoughts, Raven's Flight, Vine Strike, and Wild Instinct by my count.
Mostly useless stuff, although Raven's Flight could be exceptionally handy at times. Turning Tiny has its moments.
He probably missed them because those last 3 are from source material published in the last month or so, lol.
That swift action Raven's Flight does sound potentially handy.
He probably missed them because those last 3 are from source material published in the last month or so, lol.
Oh, g+%%@*mit. Can't hardly tell the difference, it's all quite new to me.
My bad then.
Dear Jburz,
Do you plan on adding the Wood Spirit to the list of available of spirits?
Hit level 3 on my latest Shaman, so I've noticed a few level 2 spells you're missing. :x
Burdened Thoughts, Raven's Flight, Vine Strike, and Wild Instinct by my count.
Mostly useless stuff, although Raven's Flight could be exceptionally handy at times. Turning Tiny has its moments.He probably missed them because those last 3 are from source material published in the last month or so, lol.
That swift action Raven's Flight does sound potentially handy.
Yeah, they were added before my first pass at spells and will be added later. Vine Strike made me want to make a really annoying Hex Striker.
Dear Jburz,
Do you plan on adding the Wood Spirit to the list of available of spirits?
Yep! Haven't looked at it in-depth yet, but I like that Black Tentacles greater spirit ability.
Just ran across this little tidbit while looking at another WIP shaman guide (Power's Shaman Guide)
Question: The favored class bonus lets me prepare Cleric spells, right?
No. The human favored class bonus adds "spells known." Prepared divine casters do not have or use a "spells known" mechanic. Otherwise almost all Clerics and Druids would be running around with Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) for an Arcane Bond to cast their entire spell list spontaneously. This debate has been played out definitively many times over. Only spontaneous divine casters have a "spells known" mechanic. So, you can only cast these Cleric spells with your Spirit Magic feature, the spontaneous slots. However, the Fluid Magic hex from the Water spirit will let you prepare Spirit Magic spells in regular slots, so you can prepare Cleric spells that way.
Might want to add that little tidbit to your guide as well. I hadn't realized it myself!
Just ran across this little tidbit while looking at another WIP shaman guide (Power's Shaman Guide)
Might want to add that little tidbit to your guide as well. I hadn't realized it myself!
Question: The favored class bonus lets me prepare Cleric spells, right?
No. The human favored class bonus adds "spells known." Prepared divine casters do not have or use a "spells known" mechanic. Otherwise almost all Clerics and Druids would be running around with Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) for an Arcane Bond to cast their entire spell list spontaneously. This debate has been played out definitively many times over. Only spontaneous divine casters have a "spells known" mechanic. So, you can only cast these Cleric spells with your Spirit Magic feature, the spontaneous slots. However, the Fluid Magic hex from the Water spirit will let you prepare Spirit Magic spells in regular slots, so you can prepare Cleric spells that way.
Ug things like this make me question who does final editing on these things, why would you add something so backwards and eclectic to a prepared cast to then go "nope it don't work the way you'd think". If this is indeed the "correct" ruling on this why didn't you say that explicitly in the dang ability. Things like this give you a bad name paizo so if you can't do it right then stop.
Ug things like this make me question who does final editing on these things, why would you add something so backwards and eclectic to a prepared cast to then go "nope it don't work the way you'd think". If this is indeed the "correct" ruling on this why didn't you say that explicitly in the dang ability. Things like this give you a bad name paizo so if you can't do it right then stop.Just ran across this little tidbit while looking at another WIP shaman guide (Power's Shaman Guide)
Might want to add that little tidbit to your guide as well. I hadn't realized it myself!
Question: The favored class bonus lets me prepare Cleric spells, right?
No. The human favored class bonus adds "spells known." Prepared divine casters do not have or use a "spells known" mechanic. Otherwise almost all Clerics and Druids would be running around with Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) for an Arcane Bond to cast their entire spell list spontaneously. This debate has been played out definitively many times over. Only spontaneous divine casters have a "spells known" mechanic. So, you can only cast these Cleric spells with your Spirit Magic feature, the spontaneous slots. However, the Fluid Magic hex from the Water spirit will let you prepare Spirit Magic spells in regular slots, so you can prepare Cleric spells that way.
Adding the spell to your spells know implicitly adds them to your spell list (otherwise you couldn't cast them at all).
Since you now have them on your spell list, why can't you prepare them as normal?
Adding the spell to your spells know implicitly adds them to your spell list (otherwise you couldn't cast them at all).Since you now have them on your spell list, why can't you prepare them as normal?
I agree with you. I'm not sure why that would be the "proper" way to rule it. I for sure won't rule it that way.
While it's a slightly older thread i believe this is one of the threads that is being used to support the above claim: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qbj5?Clerics-and-Druids-with-Eldritch-Heritage
While i don't particularly agree with the interpretation i can see the threads reasoning.
Luckily for my shaman the spells that i favored classed are actually at levels with pretty crappy Spirit Magic options, so it won't be that major of an issue. In general though this interpretation of the rules does make the favored class bonus not nearly as exciting.
The shaman is a class that needs a LOT of clarification and errata in my opinion. Here's hoping we get it eventually.
New Spells Known: If I gain the ability to add a spell that is not on my spell list to my list of spells known, without adding it to my spell list, can I cast it?
No. Adding a spell to your list of spells known does not add it to the spell list of that class unless they are added by a class feature of that same class. For example, sorcerers add their bloodline spells to their sorcerer spell list and oracles add their mystery spells to their oracle spell list. The spell slots of a class can only be used to cast spells that appear on the spell list of that class.
If they're added by a class feature, they're added to the spell list. It's somewhat ambiguous whether Favored Class Bonuses are class features, but it's a very reasonable assumption until we get a clarification.
It's certainly closer to RAW than being able to use Spirit Magic slots or Fluid Magic. There is *no* rule allowing you to treat spells known as Spirit Magic spells. Just like you couldn't take Expanded Arcana to add random Shaman spells. Spirit Magic has a very limited list: spells from your spirit. Wandering Spirit explicitly adds to this list. Nothing else does.
This is correct. The issue with the wording is whether or not FCB's are class features due to the Spells Known FAQ. If they are, then there is no need for Errata, the FCB works as intended. If not, then Errata is required, otherwise the FCB does absolutely nothing. There is nothing to do with Spirit Magic/etc. involved in this.
What's the advice proper on an Improved Familiar/Mauler style build? I've heard tales it's awesome, I've heard tales it's illegal, I've heard tales that it's just anti-flavor.
'sup?
What's the advice proper on an Improved Familiar/Mauler style build? I've heard tales it's awesome, I've heard tales it's illegal, I've heard tales that it's just anti-flavor.
'sup?
Improved Familiar is still up for debate for shamans because of the last line of the Spirit Animal text.
The new spirit animal must be of the same sort of creature as the previous one.
Some people believe that while you can still take the feat, the above line basically makes it useless.
Aside from that yes IF/Mauler can be pretty nifty.
...you realize that Spiritual Ally isn't on the Shaman's spell list? (which makes Spirit Guardian a somewhat strange feat - but it is a nice small boost to Spiritual Weapon.)
Personally I would suggest many other feats ahead of Combat Casting - as a Shaman you probably aren't combat focused - if you want to be there are many other feats that will likely e more important for you early on - and remember that hexes unlike spells generally don't provoke when you cast them.
Shaman's only get simple weapons and have a familiar (spirit animal) - to be effective in close combat isn't impossible (you are a 3/4 BAB class w/spells that could boost you) but especially in the lower levels I would probably suggest a basic feat such as Toughness over Combat Casting. For a Shaman the feat Tribal Scars from People of the North might be a very solid alternative (gives 6 HP plus a bonus based on the tribe you choose - over 20 levels that's less HP than Toughness would give you but early on it is a very significant boost and the tribe specific boosts are all pretty nice - it is also flavorful for a Shaman in a way that Combat Casting isn't).
(and remember that since your familiar's HP is based on your HP any class with a familiar like the Shaman really benefits from boosting HP - especially if you plan on being in close range)
I would also note that Toppling Spell + Spirit Guardian is a pretty heft feat investment for a trick you will only be able to do a few times a day (a nice trick to be sure). Especially since even with your caster level + casting stat the BAB of your toppling spells won't scale as well as either a dedicated trip specialist's BAB would or at higher levels your enemies like CMDs (if they can even been tripped).
You may want to focus on a reach weapon and either take some trip focused feats or feats that would synergize with a tripped opponent to really maximize the impact. Combat Casting would be best for someone who will be casting a lot of touch spells in combat all of
Plus you could always get it with your FCB at 9th, if you really wanted.
An update: Wood Spirit has been added, feats are coming along, and I'm working on getting those new spells added.
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you realize that Spiritual Ally isn't on the Shaman's spell list? (which makes Spirit Guardian a somewhat strange feat - but it is a nice small boost to Spiritual Weapon.)
Plus you could always get it with your FCB at 9th, if you really wanted.
It was mentioned before, but Speaker for the Past Shamans get spells from the Time and Ancestor Oracle Mysteries added to their spell list. And at their Cleric levels too.
Spiritual Ally is on the Ancestor spell list, so a Speaker for the Past Shaman would be able to cast it at 7th.
I've got the new Ancestors spirit (from Cohorts and Companions) up in the guide. I like this one a lot more than the Wood spirit :)
The new Ancestors Spirit is pretty solid. Playing in Carrion Crown, this would have been my primary spirit of choice if it had been around for me back at level 1.
My feedback for your guide:
I personally would bump Ethereal Jaunt up to green. Being able to walk through walls and be invisible is pretty sweet. It's probably not a combat spell, but it can find a use in pretty much any given day. I can see the orange vote as well though. Since all of our ways to Fly/teleport negates some of the usefulness of this spell.
I think you're under valuing Ancestral Blessing a bit. It's a competence bonus so it will stack pretty well. But, more importantly, it has no 24 hour limit and is only discharged on use or re-cast. So whoever needs a good opener should ALWAYS have this on them for the first round of combat. Potentially has some uses with the Imbue Hex. It's not blue for sure, but i think it's better than red.
Other than that i agree with the rest of your assessment on the spirit.
I'm curious if you/your familiar can "hold the charge" for a touch Hex. Leaving Ghost Blade charged on your Familiar.
That is a great question actually. Could make a lot of the shamans touch hexes slightly more usable if you can.
Here's a fun combo. Speaker for the Past shaman + variant multiclass wizard. Take the Idealize wizard secret at level 15. Cast Threefold Aspect, which is on your spell list due to being a Speaker for the Past. At level 20, you have a 24 hour +8 enhancement bonus to intelligence and wisdom.
ACG errata is here.
Changes relevant to shamans include:
- Chant is now (Su) rather than (Ex)
- Evil Eye is now mind-affecting
- A bunch of hexes got the “A creature affected by this hex cannot be affected by it again for 24 hours.” clause added on
- Life Link hex is now identical to the Life Oracle's revelation
- Summon Nature's Ally I-IX and Remove Disease are now on the spell list
- Unsworn Shamans now can take shaman hexes rather than only witch hexes
- Divine Protection got nerfed hard
- Spirit Talker only lasts 1 hour, not 24 hours
- Spirit's Gift only lasts 1 min/level rather than 24 hours
- Hex Vulnerability only works on harmful hexes, not beneficial ones
Things that have not been changed:
- Arcane Enlightenment
- Still no Communal spells on the spell list