Some other changes potentially relevant to this Guide:
- Battle Cry Feat now only works against failed fear effect saving throws
- They added a wooden holy symbol to the shaman kit
- All of the Hex based rods had their prices adjusted:
- Rod of Abrupt Hexes: Now 75,500 gp
- Rod of Grasping Hexes: Now 11,000 gp
- Rod of Interminable Hexes: Now 11,000 gp
- Rod of Potent Hexes: Now 54,000 gp
- Rod of Voracious Hexes: Now 32,500 gp
I bring up the holy symbol because that seems to imply that our familiar is not our focus, which i always assumed it was before.
I don't think Nature Spirit's Friend to Animals is undercut by adding SNA to the spell list,
having SPONTANEOUS access to them is way better than needing to memorize, and +CHA to Saves really buffs them up.
The changes to Spirit Talker now make Unsworn stand out more (IMHO), in fact they now can qualify for Spirit Talker whereas before not.
How Extra Hex is supposed to work re: 'generic' Shaman Hexes, and how it works for Unsworn (who qualify for the Feat, but have "Minor Spirit" ability, not "Spirit" ability) is unclear... Likewise, I'm unsure about the situation re: Spirit Spells for Unsworn, the wording for Spirit Magic isn't changed at all, either references to gaining spells from your Spirit apply to Minor Spirits, or that reference should be negated as no longer applicable. You do get Wandering Spells of course...
The wording of archetype + base class = you are left with a Class Ability referencing an ability you no longer have... In other words, a confusing loose end that should be tied off. = Errata
The wording of archetype + base class = you are left with a Class Ability referencing an ability you no longer have... In other words, a confusing loose end that should be tied off. = Errata
The wording on Spirit Magic is just fine. It mentions that you should reference the Spirit and Wandering Spirit class features. When you go to reference Spirit you then just swap in Minor Spirit as the reference. Just like any other archetype replacement.
So I am new to the Shaman class in general.
The changes to Unsworn Shaman appear to allow the hex related feats now due to the change to "This ability replaces spirit and alters hex."
I need some advice,
I'm trying to build a shaman which can be a healer, using the life spirit when adventuring, then switching to the lore spirit for crafting stuff on my downtime.
I'm getting confused by the Unsworn Shaman archtype, which I think would be the best situation for my shaman, however I am unsure if I lose the spirit abilities (such as Channel from the Life spirit). Also, any tips on creating a shaman to do these two jobs, would be much appreciated.
So I am new to the Shaman class in general.
The changes to Unsworn Shaman appear to allow the hex related feats now due to the change to "This ability replaces spirit and alters hex."
I need some advice,
I'm trying to build a shaman which can be a healer, using the life spirit when adventuring, then switching to the lore spirit for crafting stuff on my downtime.
I'm getting confused by the Unsworn Shaman archtype, which I think would be the best situation for my shaman, however I am unsure if I lose the spirit abilities (such as Channel from the Life spirit). Also, any tips on creating a shaman to do these two jobs, would be much appreciated.
Unsworn Shaman is generally speaking a massive downgrade for the Shaman. Certainly, it picks up some additionally versatility which is a good thing, but the amount of versatility it gains for what it gives up is a poor exchange. You do gain spirit abilities like Channel with Unsworn Shaman, but at a slower rate with your first wandering spirit getting it's greater ability at level 10. Keep in mind, a base shaman already has a wandering spirit which you can choose from daily and one permanent spirit. So for you situation, simply playing a Life Spirit Oracle and then using your Wandering Spirit/Hex at 4th and 6th level respectively to acquire Lore abilities/hexes/spirit magic in your downtime is probably the best way to go. And of course if you need something other than Lore, you can still switch to that to. Life Spirit is now a more acceptable base spirit since it's life link hex is actually useful post errata.
I appreciate the quick response, however to put it in perspective the character is designed for a slow progression exp game, so while it is good to be mindful of higher level abilities, access to things like crafting, sooner will be much more useful in the long run.
You also state that Unsworn Shaman is a massive downgrade, can you explain a little further how?
To be honest, I'm used to playing martial types and reading all the versatility of the shaman makes my head explode.
The wording of archetype + base class = you are left with a Class Ability referencing an ability you no longer have... In other words, a confusing loose end that should be tied off. = ErrataThe wording on Spirit Magic is just fine. It mentions that you should reference the Spirit and Wandering Spirit class features. When you go to reference Spirit you then just swap in Minor Spirit as the reference. Just like any other archetype replacement.
So I take it you are taking the opposite interepretation to the previous poster Markov:
"Minor Spirits has nothing to do with Spirit Magic or Spirit Spells."?(He also gives a balance reason why that is OK, which I agree with, albeit such judgements shouldn't play a central role in applying RAW)
While I'd love a RAW reference for your interpretation, I honestly don't expect one, as there isn't any such rule on how "references to class abilities" are modified when class abilities are replaced... If you really believe that to be true, it means that more class abilities are being altered then those that are expressly altered (which impacts archetype stacking/compatability).
Anyhow, the fact we have multiple posters here with different takes on the subject reinforces to me that this needs Errata.
I wouldn't call Unsworn a "massive" down-grade... It's a 2 level delay to Spirit Abilities.
And it doesn't affect your effective Shaman level for the abilities, so they scale at full power (you just gain each ability later).
If you are taking the "long view"/high level view, then you will eventually get those at high level anyways.
In exchange, you don't have to worry about Spirit Ability & Spirit Hex correlation at all...
If you're going to assess what you lose with the -2 level adjustment on Spirit Abilities,
you should make a realistic assessment of what you can GET with the no-limits Hex cherry picking.
Why not take Lore's Arcane Enlightenment and Water's Fluid Magic, along with Stone's Crystal Sight, and Nature's Friend to Animals?
Meanwhile take, say, Heavens and Life for Spirit Abilities (and spells). As one example.
Being able to cherry pick Hexes and Spirit Abilities independent of each other is very useful IMHO.
Pre-Errata, I would have agreed that you're better off not using Unsworn, because the cherry picking function
was nearly equally fulfilled by Spirit Talker Feat (which Unsworn didn't qualify for then, although now it does)
which let you use the Hex granted for the entire day, while now post-Errata it only works for 1 hr.
One of the best usages pre-Errata was getting Lore's Arcane Enlightnement, which was a great Hex
in a Spirit that otherwise didn't offer much for general adventuring as far as Spirit Abilities went,
i.e. dedicating even a Wandering Spirit to it felt "wasteful" because you were locking yourself out of more useful Spirit Abilities/Hexes.
Now that Spirit Talker isn't quite as awesome (although it's still good for 1 hr), Unsworn feels more valuable.
Questions do remain over how Extra Hex is supposed to work for Unsworn,
IMHO it should either allow Generic (Non-Spirit) Shaman Hexes, or allow Unsworn to choose an extra Wandering Hex.
Unsworn are still locked out of taking Flexible Hex, which gives non-Unsworn some more flexibility re: Hexes WITHIN their chosen Spirits for the day (strangely - IMHO - "favoring" the Wandering Spirit) but not doing anything for Spirit/Hex correlation.
Why not take Lore's Arcane Enlightenment and Water's Fluid Magic, along with Stone's Crystal Sight, and Nature's Friend to Animals?
Meanwhile take, say, Heavens and Life for Spirit Abilities (and spells). As one example.
Uh no. Just no. You have this ability completely wrong. Unsworn Shaman can only select spirit hexes off it's wandering spirits lists so you are limited to picking off at most two lists any given day. And you will be limited to those spirits abilities for that day. Now that still sounds somewhat useful except the massive trade off is having literally half the number hexes and delayed abilities. Not to mention the base Shaman already has a flexible spirit and 2 flexible (if slightly more limited) hexes. Not to mention being locked out of Extra Hex (RAW) and not being able to use Flexible Hex.
There *are* some advantages to Unsworn Shaman, but they are never the ones I hear anyone who supports the archetype actually talk about. Namely, not being limited to only one Witch Hex though this mostly means you can pick Slumber AND Soothsayer, since the other decent options are already replicated. The other nice trick is that you can switch the Secret Hex every day to select new Metamagic for a given situation. However, giving up half your hexes and delaying progression is very much not worth it.
I still don't understand the confusion with Unsworn Shaman:
You don't get any Spirit Magic from your Spirit ability (you don't have it) or your Minor Spirit ability.
You do get the spirit spells from your Wandering Spirits. Since your Minor Spirit Hexes have to come from your Wandering Spirits, these are effectively the same.But I don't think there's any confusion or disagreement on the net effect:
You can use Spirit Magic, and you can cast spells from either of your Wandering Spirits with it.
This is correct, but only because Unsworn Shamans get Spirit Magic at 2nd level. And yes you can draw from either of your wandering spirits lists for them.
OK, I don't see any restriction in Minor Spirit to only Wandering Spirit Hexes (+Generic Shaman Hexes?), it says you can select "Shaman Hexes" and then mentions your Wandering Spirit Hexes are OK... There is no restriction to certain lists, e.g. Generic Shaman Hexes (as the vanilla Hex ability works), and I don't see anything that suggests Spirit Hexes are not "Shaman Hexes": Both are listed under the heading "Hexes", and both are Shaman Class Abilities... I don't see a reason why "Shaman Hex" refers to one but not the other... there is no distinct phrase given to refer to each group separately (I invented the term "Spirit Hex" for ease of discussion). Perhaps the intent is to retain the vanilla Hex ability's restriction to certain "Generic" list (+Wandering), but that isn't at all clear to me from RAW, and the archetype text IS granting access to Shaman Hexes with no restriction.
The naming of the abilities also suggested to me that more than just Wandering Spirit Hexes were OK, as "Minor Spirit" name and references to making bonds with Minor Spirits suggests bonding with Spirits beyond simply the parameters of Wandering Spirit. That isn't necessarily persuasive on it's own, but in the lack of RAW constraining Shaman Hex choice, the naming/language/flavor seemed congruent with bonding with multiple Spirits beyond just Wandering, so I never had reason to question that interpretation until now.
If Wandering Spirit is supposed to be the sole means to increase your sources of Spirits/Hexes, it seems very strange for the above passage explicitly describing the expanding # of spirits/hexes granted to not even mention Wandering Spirit when it should be the crux of the mechanic (by that reading). Obviously, it earlier mentions you can choose a Hex of one of your Wandering Spirits, but that doesn't result in any actual restriction, and superfluous mentions are not uncommon in the rules.
If that doesn't apply/correspond to intent, then of course the dynamic is substantially different...
OK, I don't see any restriction in Minor Spirit to only Wandering Spirit Hexes (+Generic Shaman Hexes?), it says you can select "Shaman Hexes" and then mentions your Wandering Spirit Hexes are OK... There is no restriction to certain lists, e.g. Generic Shaman Hexes (as the vanilla Hex ability works), and I don't see anything that suggests Spirit Hexes are not "Shaman Hexes": Both are listed under the heading "Hexes", and both are Shaman Class Abilities... I don't see a reason why "Shaman Hex" refers to one but not the other... there is no distinct phrase given to refer to each group separately (I invented the term "Spirit Hex" for ease of discussion). Perhaps the intent is to retain the vanilla Hex ability's restriction to certain "Generic" list (+Wandering), but that isn't at all clear to me from RAW, and the archetype text IS granting access to Shaman Hexes with no restriction.
Because proper rule construction means lines should not be read to be meaningless. Furthermore, Spirit Hexes are not "Shaman Hexes" anymore than Gravewalker Witches Bonewhistle is a Witch Hex. Shaman Hexes are purely those that actually appear in the default Shaman class Hex list. The other Hexes cannot be accessed except by specific selection of Spirits, they are not Shaman Hexes. For Example:
A shaman who chooses the ancestors spirit can select from the following hexes.
Since the Unsworn Shaman has not chosen the Ancestor Spirit they cannot select from those hexes. They are effectively only on the Hex list of a Shaman that has chosen that spirit. This is why the Unsworn Shaman can only select those once they have chosen that Wandering Spirit.
I agree with Anzyr for multiple reasons, but the biggest reason i always come back to "Shaman" hexes being just the "Generic" ones is this:
If we strip the shaman of all class features and then add features back one at a time, "Hex" is the only one that can stand alone and both give a shaman the ability to cast hexes as well as give the class access to a list of hexes to cast. In fact we don't need any other class feature outside of Hex to be able to be a decent debuffer. If we have Hex already, adding back the "Spirit" class feature then gives the shaman access to 1 spirits for of additional hexes. It's not until we add back BOTH Wandering Spirit and Wandering Hex that we get access to everything else.
What people are calling the "Generic Shaman Hexes" are really just the "Shaman Hexes" everything else is a "Spirit Hex" and requires some class feature related to spirits to actually access.
• Page 112—In the Unsworn Shaman archetype’s Minor Spirit ability, change “witch hex” in the first and third sentences to “shaman or witch hex”, and change the last sentence to “This ability replaces spirit and alters hex.”
Which is the basis for Unsworn now qualifying for Extra Hex.
Given that there is no clear distinction in the stated rules text between this 'alteration' and wholesale replacement(since Minor Spirit's rules text does not interact with or even refer to the Hex Ability rules in any way, other than stating it alters them),
it would seem the entire purpose of the change to 'alter' would be letting them qualify for Extra Hex by lieu of technically still having the Hex feature
(i.e., even if Minor Spirit amounts to a 'total alteration' of Hex, it's technically treateed as an alteration not replacement).
...Thusly strange why they left Extra Hex so nonsensically non-functional for Unsworn.
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While I understand the hesitation to multi-class, a couple levels of Brawler can make for a nice melee debuffer.
Alt racial traits: Sacred tattoo
Traits: Magical lineage (frostbite), Fate's favored
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 12
Brawler 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Enforcer
Brawler 2: Brawler's flurry, Weapon focus(fists)
Shaman 3: Rime spell
Shaman 4: Hex: Evil eye
Shaman 5: Hex strike (evil eye)
Shaman 6: Hex: Witch hex: Slumber
Key gear: Brawling armor, amulet of mighty fists: cruel
Brawler's flurry is also very nice for making Hex Strike work. Throwing out two hexes a turn is a solid action economy boost. (ETA: Whoops, forgot the swift action gating. Maybe the two level dip isn't as big as I thought. It does still give a nice boost to your likelihood of landing at least one hit in most situations as well as a bonus feat, though). If you have a round or two of warning before combat starts you can lay on the pain with a quickness.
Combat begins: charge (or move) up to enemy, punch them. If you hit, intimidate... they should now be shaken, fatigued, evil eyed (saving throws), and entangled. The entanglement will end before your next turn, but it stays in effect for their attack.
Your next round: Brawler's flurry. Punch #1 will render them sickened, and entangled. Punch #2 will deliver slumber against a -4 or -6 to saves (shaken, sickened, and evil eye are each -2).
Total resource expenditure: one first level spell and one of four uses of martial flexibility.
Being behind in caster levels does hurt, but compare it to the magus. They get second level spells at 4, third level spells at 7, and fourth level spells at 10. With the two level dip in Brawler, a Shaman gets second level spells at 5, third level spells at 7, and fourth level spells at 9. The brawler levels also give a net +2/+2 to the Shaman's bad saves.
I think this build gives a path to participate in melee in a way that maintains most of the flavor of a shaman.
• Page 112—In the Unsworn Shaman archetype’s Minor Spirit ability, change “witch hex” in the first and third sentences to “shaman or witch hex”, and change the last sentence to “This ability replaces spirit and alters hex.”Which is the basis for Unsworn now qualifying for Extra Hex.
Given that there is no clear distinction in the stated rules text between this 'alteration' and wholesale replacement
(since Minor Spirit's rules text does not interact with or even refer to the Hex Ability rules in any way, other than stating it alters them),
it would seem the entire purpose of the change to 'alter' would be letting them qualify for Extra Hex by lieu of technically still having the Hex feature
(i.e., even if Minor Spirit amounts to a 'total alteration' of Hex, it's technically treateed as an alteration not replacement).
...Thusly strange why they left Extra Hex so nonsensically non-functional for Unsworn.
It is evidently because Extra Hex limiting you to only hexes from your spirit is "working as intended". And since the Unsworn Shaman does not have a base Spirit to get Extra Hex's for, there is no value to the feat for them anyway.
But now that I look at it, it seems like it removes Hexes rather than adding? It's unclear. The Minor Spirit alters the Hex class feat, but it doesn't say that you don't gain any hexes where a normal shaman would.
It alters it so you gain "Minor Spirits", which are essentially altered Hex class features that change daily, are available starting at level 1, and are acquired more slowly.
So I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but why is fire seeds orange under the flame spirit spells? Normally I think Fire seeds is orange because despite being one of the highest damage single target spells in the game (harm ties with it at caster level 18 and deals more average damage 19 and above), you need to be adjacent to the target (in which case you are probably taking the damage too) or you need to have set it up in advance. For flame spirit shamans though you usually have a high speed, flying, fire immune method of delivering the spell (put the seeds in a pouch, have the bird carry said pouch). In addition you have a means of boosting the most damaging spell in the game by 50% with your hex. So at level 11 you are dealing 1.5*8*(1d8+CL) for an average of 186 damage (124 without hex). I think being able to 1 shot most non-fire resistant things of your CR deserves a green rating (not blue because of how fire resistance interacts with vulnerability and because you can not energy substitute it without your familiar then becoming susceptible to the damage). Note: this is without spending any resources except vulnerability hex which you would have taken anyway.
tldr: Highest damage spell in the game, not effective against any enemy resistant to fire.
edit: Oh, for even more damage shenanigans toss in a necklace of fireballs. They detonate after a failed save against fire, all the necklaces go off. Average of 150gp per 1d6 damage so 5.25 with hex (assuming they fail an easy save. 2.5 seems more likely). so type II for 2700 adds an average of 47 extra damage (95 if they fail).
Under the Healing hex, you mention that it could be abused with the hex vulnerability spell. Either you overlooked the fact that the spell only works on HARMFUL hexes, or they errata'd it since your writing as you predicted they would.
Under the Healing hex, you mention that it could be abused with the hex vulnerability spell. Either you overlooked the fact that the spell only works on HARMFUL hexes, or they errata'd it since your writing as you predicted they would.
ACG Errata got it.
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Serious thread necromancy, but I intend to update this guide to current errata and with all options. Shaman are still great :)
That's exciting! I would love to have an updated guide when I eventually try to tackle the class and actually play a Shaman.
Serious thread necromancy, but I intend to update this guide to current errata and with all options. Shaman are still great :)
Glad to hear it!
Playing a Speaker for the Past Shaman at higher levels now, and loving it. Happy to see if there are any cool features or ideas I might have been missing out on.
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Serious thread necromancy, but I intend to update this guide to current errata and with all options. Shaman are still great :)
Looking forward to your updates incorporating all the latest pubs and errata/faq/clarifications. Lots of good advice in the previous guide but there's a lot of new developments to consider since 2015.
Planning to bring a GM baby shaman out of the nursery soon. Your thoughts and analysis are invaluable.
Interested in a caster shaman with the heavens spirit, lore wandering spirit, and arcane enlightenment hex.
Hoping to play him at level 4 at GenCon.
Cheers!
Well here is the recent Unsworn Shaman FAQ to help out.
Unsworn Shaman: The unsworn shaman’s minor spirit ability tells you exactly when you gain hexes, but it doesn’t technically say you don’t gain the other hexes from the class progression. Pre-errata, it replaced the hex class feature entirely, which unambiguously removed them. How many hexes does the unsworn shaman receive?
Unsworn shaman still only receives the hexes from minor spirit and does not gain hexes at any other levels. The change from ‘replaces’ to ‘alters’ fixes a problem where the unsworn shaman used to have hexes while simultaneously removing the hex class feature, but the way the minor spirit ability alters the hex class feature is that it changes when you gain hexes to the listed levels.