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I'd like to make sure I have this right, apologies if it's dirt simple:

If I cast spellcrash on a target and overcome the target's spell resistance, they immediately lose one spell of their choice of 5th level (or lower if they have no 5th spells, no save). On their turn, at the start of their turn they lose a second spell (no save). Then, at the end of their turn they can make a will save to end the effects. If they fail the save, they will lose another spell at the start of their next turn, and can make a new save at the end of that turn. And so on until they make their save or the spell runs its course.

Is this correct, or did I miss something? Thanks in advance!

My current favorite cleric archetype is the herald caller - it is not the battle cleric you described, but you can spontaneously cast summons to do your fighting for you (or give yourself or others easy flanking - with this archetype your summons always understand your words, so you can order them about).

And if you have access to advanced class guide, maybe look at the warpriest - swift action buffing from the cleric spell list is very nice, and more battle-y. Plus you don't need to worry about Charisma.

Sorry this is not more in line with what you asked for.

I've enjoyed Angelic Aspect as a buff. Also summon monster as noted above.

There's some info on variant channeling here:

As a NG sarenrae cleric, probably no.

If you take ioun wyrd as a tattooed sorcerer, do you get the benefits of whatever ioun stones are in the wyrd when it's in tattoo form? i.e. does that count as part of its special familiar ability? or is it just the +1 to nat ac and alertness (disregarding archetypes for the moment)?

edit: also, "For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher." - does your level affect the number ioun stones it can have?

I found the Figurine of the Concealed Companion here: f-the-concealed-companion.

It's listed under 'metagame artifacts,' so it doesn't seem like a usual item.

This guide and thread have been a lot of fun to read. Thanks!

Going back to what to do with a level 1 human shaman's feats, I'm building a human with combat casting and toppling spell. I understand combat casting is frowned upon, but it's nice to have when things go south. Toppling spell, with magical lineage trait, to take spirit guardian at three, for a full bab tripping spiritual weapon. Just a thought.

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Hmm wrote:

Yes but the fluff on the Sage Familiar actively describes the sage lecturing its master:

Sage’s Knowledge (Ex) wrote:
A sage stores information on every topic and is happy to lecture its master on the finer points.

How can you lecture if you cannot talk in the first place?


Could you give one skill rank in linguistics to give the familiar an early language? Or is there something that prevents the familiar from doing that? (I'm trying to build a sage skunk for my shaman, and would like it to be able to talk from 1).

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QuidEst wrote:
As opposed to entanglement effects, which are save-or-stuck.

I found this comment to be a lot funnier than it probably deserved to be. Thanks for the laugh ;-)

Is soul warden legal for pfs? Its focus is on undead, you dont lose caster levels, and eventually you can use channels to cast searing light or breath of life. There's likely a hundred reasons why it's no good, but the flavor fits.

Have you looked at the merciful healer instead of theologian? You cant channel vs undead, but you can clear some statuses (and qualify for extra mercy).

I was also thinking about a monk level to make a robed cleric - what i'd like to do is look at unchained alternate multiclass to see if i can pick up the monk unarmored defense there. And if there's nothing else interesting in the monk amc, maybe talk to my dm about adapting it. Just a thought.

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Onyxlion wrote:
Just leave him at the bar. If he doesn't want to be a involved don't get him involved. Just get the others into the game and having fun, either he will come around or not but it's on him. This game is a team game if he chooses no to play along that's on him not you.

This. If he wants to sit at the bar, let him. If he wants something exciting to happen, set the bar on fire then return to the rest of the party on their adventure. Don't waste more than 5 minutes on his story.

How would the dr/- from adamantine armor interact with the dr/evil from the angelic aspect spell?

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Shaman! Oh i'd love to play a heavens shaman. Play a shaman!

Excellent, thank you both. Does weaponwand mix weirdly with these at all?

Do the close range and wand wielder magus arcana (aracanae?) work together? E.g. if i had a wand of ray of enfeeblement that fell off the back of a magic truck, could i use it to spell combat and spellstrike if i have both arcana? Or can i only spell combat with the wand, while being able to spell combat and spellstrike if i cast the spell myself?

On a side note, how does the spell 'weaponwand' interact with wand wielder?

This is for a vanilla magus, coming up on level 3. Appreciate your input!

Since you have quick channel already anyway, I would consider picking up the reactive healing feat. Immediate action channel to heal self only when dropped to 0 or fewer hp - just in case.

Excellent, thanks!


As above, so below: can a soul warden with quick channel use channel casting as a move action, or is the casting time based on the spell (i.e. just using a channel as a spell slot)? If yes, would it cost 2 uses of channel?


I'm still hoping the ecclesitheurge errata will do something about the AC issue. I'd really like to play one, but would like to know how the archetype is going to fall out when it's actually done. Also thinking about a mystic ecclesitheurge...that would be nice I think. (edit: mt with empyreal sorcerer and you have a tiny bit of extra healing at range, or a fun fiery way to find out the true alignment of your party members..."i thought it would heal you!")

Sorry, i was going off the /healing-domain description. I haven't checked the real prd in awhile. My bad!

Edit: the real prd has the restriction too

Edit 2: sorry about my links

No, the domain empowering only works for healing with cures, not damaging undead. (it would be nice though)


If you're adding abilities to a staff over time, do higher spell levels added later always cost full price?

E.G. you create a staff with a level 2 spell at 400*2*CL/charges. If you later add a level 3 spell, is the cost to add that then 400*3*CL/charges because it is now the highest spell level?


Neo2151 wrote:

I can't support this idea that the Cleric/Oracle spell list is as amazing as people are saying.

I just recently rolled with a Cleric and had constant issues picking spells to prepare:

•Most buff spells are overridden by magic item bonuses.
•Most buff spells come at such a slow progression that you're getting a VERY minor use out of them (ie: this spell grants a +3, which doesn't stack with his/her +2, so this 4th level spell only amounts to a +1... why did I bother again?)
•The powerful restorative and/or planar spells usually come with a hefty monetary cost.
•Most people never make it to the Miracle levels.

Granted, this is from the perspective of a good-aligned Cleric.
But even Bad Touch Clerics have their issues.
•Most spells are SoS/D which are awful when they fail.
•Spells that maintain an effect even on a failed save require an attack roll, usually melee, which you aren't awful at, but aren't great at either.

Which takes me into Battle Clerics, which really shouldn't exist anymore thanks to Warpriests getting rid of their traditional hurdle: buffing time.

It seems like the only really good Cleric options are Minion Necromancy (VERY niche and doesn't work well in many groups) or a Channel Specialist, which requires heavy feat investment, something you are weak on as a Cleric.
[Edit - Forgot to mention you get some good Divination stuff, but you still can't hold a candle to Wiz/Sor Divination options.]

tl;dr - I think Cleric would be WAY more fun if you play it in a game with very few/no magic items. But doing that on the Pathfinder chassis is SO problematic that it's largely not worth it.

I remember I was recently very disappointed that the ac bonus from prot. from evil didn't stack with rings of protection - and just about everyone in the party had one. But then we met an evil cleric summoning evil beasties and i was back in business/toast of the town/what have you.

Anyway, my cleric definitely isn't the most damaging, winningest guy around, but he is fun to play. And when he comes through, he really comes through (even on a simple spell like burning disarm - that's a lot of fun to throw around).

Hooray! I don't know how to internet so i'm afraid i couldn't build it, but as an addendum - if you've got people randomly queuing for one offs (in addition to the create your own game and invite thing), and a one off might be ~a pfs scenario size, you could put in a 'if you queue to play, you queue to gm occasionally' clause. That would even out supply and demand to just get people playing - some people might like it and others will treat it like jury duty (i did my duty last year! I'm out!).

But again, i don't know how to internet.

Is there a standing character emporium where you as a gm can go and look for characters you might like (like an inn)? I've only done pbp where you see game ads, then scramble to make a charcter as fast as you can that fits.

If there was a standing character emporium, you might be able to set up a random queue for one offs.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
No, the clawed feet thing has been answered. Talons are for feet.

Does this also apply to synthesist summoners? And/or, would you be able to point me in the general direction of the faq or whatever answer you're referring to? /pleasesayyes:)

I see, thank you! For using a higher level spell slot - would you treat that in a similar way to metamagic? i.e. it's a x-level spell, but you need to use an x+1 or x+2 slot to cast it?


Do GMs (or players) generally frown on using downtime spell research to poach spells from other spell lists? I don't want to be that guy if this kind of thing is generally verboten, but we recently lost our wizard, and I thought it might be a good idea to try to pick up a little bit of that slack. But if this opens all kinds of nasty doors, well I'm curious.

Anyway, input appreciated!

Abraham spalding wrote:


Ecclesitheurge -- I'll wait on this one until we know it's not getting errata'ed but the idea is alright.

It is getting errata'd. I'm on a phone so can't do the search fu thing right now, but it's on someone's list somewhere. (search ecclesitheurge and change result display to newest first, it should be near the top-ish)

Edit: i'm excited for the errata

Can a construct umd? Slap a few colossal wands to the side of its head and beneath its chin for the cannons.

The Human Diversion wrote:

I'm pretty liberal about what I consider a weapon-like item. If an item could conceivably kill a cockroach as an improvised weapon, I consider it a weapon-like item.

Therefore, scrolls and potions are legal to draw for free as part of a move in my games.

You are a kind and wonderful person and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

boring7 wrote:
"Nuke riding", and various bring-down-the-house or blow-up-the-mountain strategies are traditional heroic ends that don't leave bodies behind. Enemy is big, PCs have magical nuke/earthquake spell/whatever; they go into the mountain/fight through the enemy army and push the little red button. One boom later and the baddies as well as the players are atomized, buried forever, or whatever.

Taking a cue from esa - go capture a comet with an adamantine core and pilot it into a golem the size of something really big (i'm not creative;)

Edit: for targeting mix laser guided missiles and shadow of the colossus

I like the waves of baddies idea - but maybe also split the group? E.G. give them X simultaneous objectives (everyone has to turn their key at the same time kind of thing). Or a straight run into the mouth of mt. doom, passing the ring back and forth as they die fighting their way through the masses.

I've been using the tables and alignments given here:

NG has plenty of options there for sacred summons. I don't know if you need dm permission to use those tables though.

Frankly it seems ok to me to resurrect this thread.

I have another question about the soul warden, and if anyone would like to chime in I'd appreciate it:

Would channel casting and quick channel work together? I.E.: can you spend 2 channels to cast one of your channel spells as a move action? If it works, should it? Thanks for any input!

I appreciate the input, thanks!


Can you take Quicken Spell at level 1 even though you won't be able to use it for another however many levels? Or do you need to have the appropriate spell slots available before you can take a metamagic feat?

The point would be to give a squishy human cleric Reactive Healing (from the ACG) at level 1. If there would be a different answer for PFS, I'd appreciate that answer as well.


Claxon wrote:
downlobot wrote:
It would increase your armor's ac by 1, but additional enhancement bonuses would not stack (i.e. the +1 on your kilt wouldn't stack with the +2 on your armor). But other ability enhancements (e.g. fortification) would be useable as long as they didn't duplicate.
That is technically correct, but any sane GM shouldn't allow it.

That's a different question ;) But I agree, and would just call a piece of armor with a kilt one suit - suitable for only 1 set of enhancements. It is a nice way to get a touch of extra ac cheap.

Ping. If anyone has a thought on how they'd rule this (esp preferred spell), I'd appreciate it!

It would increase your armor's ac by 1, but additional enhancement bonuses would not stack (i.e. the +1 on your kilt wouldn't stack with the +2 on your armor). But other ability enhancements (e.g. fortification) would be useable as long as they didn't duplicate.

How does this work? Can you use a wand of any given spirit magic spell? Any given spirit magic spell after wandering spirit first kicks in?

Similarly, does preferred spell interact in the same way?


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I don't think many would agree with me, but I would seriously consider the ecclesitheurge with fire primary and healing secondary. That way you can still spontaneously cast (empowered) cures even when you've filled your slots with fireballs. I'm not totally sold on it, I'd really like to know what the blessing of the faithful was, but I think it's a good flavor and at least somewhat workable.

I'd also like to find out about this. I searched the pdf, but only found the one result.

Edit: please be a wis->ac boost ;)

Maybe the wrong place for this, but do spells/enchantments that increase the damage die for a weapon stack with sacred weapon damage? e.g.: lead blades, gravity bow, bashing shield enchantment, impact enchantment

Just to clear one thing up- while your alignment must be within one step of your deity's, your Aura matches your deity's alignment regardless of your alignment.

Also the summon good monster feat makes sacred summons as a cleric with an NG deity/aura awesome imho. Edit: it also makes it useful from Lvl 1.

Don't wands and such have types, too? I.e. Divine or arcane, such that a spell that appears on both the wizard and cleric list might appear in a wand that a wizard couldnt use without umd that a cleroc could? So in the example above, the domain version of the spell would be divine, so the cleric couldnt use an arcane wand without umd? I could be makong that all up though.

What about the wand wielder arcana->weaponwand?

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