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Organized Play Member. 439 posts (456 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. 1 wishlist. 2 Organized Play characters. 8 aliases.


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I'll vote for a Stonesinger bard. You buff and debuff amazingly - and it stacks with Dirge Bard, if you want to do some fear stacking. No sudden death syndrome either!

Could make it some sort of a Synergist Witch, they get to merge with their familiars and take on their aspects.

It only has one free trick, but if you check the Handle Animal rules, an animal can learn 3 tricks per point in intelligence. So, a typical animal with 2 INT would be able to learn 6 tricks, in addition to the free one it gets from being an animal companion. It's not unreasonable to assume that your starting animal companion has already been trained.

It might be worth checking out this guide, incidentally - it talks a lot about how to deal with Animal Companions.

Yep, you've got it. You get it at level 4, however, and without retraining Boon Companion comes online at level 5, so we're talking three-four levels with no companion, where it is likely to make the most impact.

The only thing that I am aware of is the Pact Servant trait. It allows you to treat Asmodeus as if his alignment is Lawful Neutral for the purposes of your own alignment, and as such, you can be a Lawful Good cleric of Asmodeus.

The trait does nothing to change the rules about spells with alignment descriptors, so you are still unable to cast spells with the [Chaos] and [Good] descriptors, and since you have a good alignment, you can't cast spells with the [Evil] descriptor. Normally not a big deal, but it locks you out of a lot of niches when it comes to summoning.

In regards of improving the kinetic blast, one thing you could potentially do is to get a Chuspiki improved familiar, and pick up Interweave Composite Blast. PFS has a ruling that the familiar doesn't progress the kinetic blast, but according to RAW I'm pretty sure it would increase by 1d6 every other level, so when you can pick it up, you're looking at double the damage output if you choose a blast that has a composite with air (so, pretty much any energy blast).

...of course, you could always just get a Chuspiki as an improved familiar and not be a Havocker, and have it use the super-cantrip without taking up any of your actions.

willuwontu wrote:
Pounce wrote:

I mean, they can arguably get one hex, since the archetype itself doesn't explicitly alter / change out your patron (it alters your familiar and takes all your hexes), that should mean that you can take a unique patron. Whether you can then take Extra Hex afterwards to make up for it is... gray.

Might be worth a shot, though.

A havocker’s patron grants her the ability to devastate her foes with a specific element. At 1st level, rather than selecting a standard patron and gaining patron spells, the witch selects a specific kineticist element, which represents the shadowy forces from which she gains her familiar and class powers. The havocker gains the elemental focus and kinetic blast class features with the associated element, using her witch level as her effective kineticist level. If the havocker takes levels in another class that grants an elemental focus, the elemental focuses must be the same type, even if that means that the elemental focus of one of the classes must change. Subject to GM discretion, the havocker can change her former elemental focus to make them conform.
You still have the patron class feature, but you can't select a unique patron that way, thus no hexes.

I know that's what it says, but the text underneath it doesn't impose any restrictions, rather it says

This ability alters the witch’s familiar and replaces the witch’s 1st-level hex.

Where do you then draw the line? The text doesn't really seem to match the crunch.

I mean, they can arguably get one hex, since the archetype itself doesn't explicitly alter / change out your patron (it alters your familiar and takes all your hexes), that should mean that you can take a unique patron. Whether you can then take Extra Hex afterwards to make up for it is... gray.

Might be worth a shot, though.

Maybe this would be worth looking into? It has a specific effect on bonded animals, but you could maybe modify it further for a temporary effect, if nothing else.

After re-reading the Kinetic Invocation feat, and realising that Expeditious Excavation is one of the no-burn options on the list, it has kind of stuck in my head that it would be pretty cool to make a Kineticist that could essentially build a town by himself if he wanted to, at as low of a level as possible.

I'm mostly wondering what can be done without magic items, so I'm ignoring things like a Lyre of Building - got any suggestions?

Random questions about wild talents:
> Kinetic Cover - is there any way to make it more, well... more? It seems incredibly fragile, and not like it would be of any use when constructing a building.
> Shift Earth or Stone Sculptor? Shift Earth seems like it covers a lot more ground per casting, but Stone Sculptor allows for more fine control, it seems, plus it doesn't have a really annoying prerequisite.
> Water secondary or Aether secondary? Water seems like it could be fun with Kinetic Invocation, using Silent Image to juxtapose images of building plans on top of the construction site, not too unlike what it would look like when you're trying to place a building in a video game. Aether, on the other hand, would give access to Telekinetic Haul, which would be extremely useful for moving construction materials. (I know Aether Architect is really neat, but it's not exactly low level)

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Also, you probably don't have the Aether subtype, so you're getting the +1 competence bonus from the Wysp (which won't stack with things like a bard's inspire courage), and the bonus to aid another won't apply to you.

Might make the choice easier on your end.

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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Xaimum Mafire that Smoke Wizard subschool wrote:
Smokesight (Su): You can see normally through natural fog and smoke, as well as any fog and smoke that you (but not others) magically create. A number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence bonus, you can touch another creature as a standard action to grant it this vision for 1 hour.

Plus Pyrotechnics. Then,

Xaimum Mafire wrote:
you can smoke/fog up the battlefield, give your Rogue Smokesight, and give him free Sneak Attacks for an hour.

To achieve a similar effect, I was thinking Flame Dancer Bard .

Flame Dancer wrote:
Song of the Fiery Gaze (Su): At 3rd level, a fire dancer can allow allies to see through... fire, fog, and smoke without penalty as long as the light is sufficient to allow him to see normally

and just getting an Eversmoking Bottle .

Eversmoking Bottle wrote:
The amount of smoke is great if the stopper is pulled out, pouring from the bottle and totally obscuring vision across a 50-foot spread in 1 round.
The Bardic Performance doesn't last as long, but you hit all your allies with a single action. Also, I'm not suggesting a Mystic Theurge Bard, so your suggestion is more on-topic, but I thought it would be interesting to compare ideas.

Ashen Path is also a thing, and is widely accessible from level 3 onwards. Otherwise twenty thumbs up.

Pyrotechnics wrote:
Pyrotechnics turns a fire into a burst of blinding fireworks or a thick cloud of choking smoke, depending on your choice. The spell uses one fire source, which is immediately extinguished. A fire so large that it exceeds a 20-foot cube is only partly extinguished. Magical fires are not extinguished, although a fire-based creature used as a source takes 1 point of damage per caster level.

What constitutes a fire-based creature for this purpose? I figure a fire elemental would be okay, but.. does this extend to anyone with the [fire] subtype?

That said, you could always take the Mantle of Moonlight revelation and be immune to your own curse, RAW.

It's not really relevant to the question at hand (to which the answer by the rules, yeah, you still need some other way of doing that), but it is kind of funny.

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ShroudedInLight wrote:
nicholas storm wrote:
Really thinking my next character is going to be a sorcerer with the unicorn bloodline. Bonus spells are healing spells (including heal at level 6). Your bloodline arcana gives light healing every time you cast a spell.
There are some bloodlines I'm not comfortable with because of the parental implications. Unicorn is one of them.

Justify it by saying that "It was at truly great cost that I got that first level of sorcerer, but that is a sacrifice I was willing to make. So sure, my blood does carry power, but it's not exactly all my blood..."

A Shabti Nature / Lunar Oracle (or Human/Half-Elf/Half-Orc) with Planar Heritage (Shabti) can grab psychic spells off-list, and so can cast Enlarge Person come level 4.

Shared Training could then do some work come level 6, for TW feat sharing.

Racial bonuses specifically do stack, though.

A necro, but that being said: I'm pretty sure a Monster Tactician with this teamwork feat would be a monster to behold.

Kurald Galain wrote:
Temperans wrote:

Lets see a 18 Con (15 point buy, no severe dumping, & con belt) lv6 Kineticist has a max (after calculating empowered) of: 4d6 + 4 + 9 (3 Con + 1 Con belt + 1 Size bonus to Con) + 6 (overflow + Fire's Fury) + 6 (Deadly Aim). Or, 4d6+25 with +7 to hit (given Dex 14).

An archer fighter using 18 Dex and 14 Str has a max of: 1d8 + 2 (composite) + 1 (enchantment) + 1 (Weapon Training) + 4 (Deadly Aim) + 2 (W. Specialization). Or, 1d8+10 with +11/+6 to hit; +8/+8/+4 with rapid shot.

So its 4d6+25 spending 3 feats and 1 standard action vs 1d8+10*2 spending 4 feats and 1 full action vs 1d8+10*4 spending 6 feats and 1 full action.

Right. So what you're showing here is that the kinny's nova damage, which he can keep up a total of four rounds per day only, is about half of what the fighter deals at will. And common party buffs (such as bard song, haste, or prayer) benefit the fighter more. That doesn't look so good for the kinny...

Doesn't gather power allow you to reduce the burn cost of metakinesis? If so, the aforementioned empowered fire blast should be 0 burn at level 6 + gather power. Not exactly a nova situation - but not particularily impressive damage either.

(Also, pardon me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fire kineticist be dealing (3d6 (Base) + 2 (1/2 Con) + 4 (Elemental Overflow) +2 (Fire's Fury))x1.5 = (3d6+8)x1.5 ≈ 29-ish fire damage on average?
After all, Deadly Aim doesn't apply to touch attacks, and energy blasts target touch.)

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Apocalyptic Spell is a quite neat metamagic feat for combining battlefield control and blasting - let alone the fact that Apocalyptic Metamagic Rods is a thing as well. I'm a fan!

The recommendation mainly comes from the playerbase, as rise of the runelords leaves you going up against a LOT of wizards, which also means wizard-friendly spellbooks for loot.

^ Green Faith Marshal gets a druid domain and its associated spells.

The Archives of Nethys lists the statistics for a Gorthek animal companion here.

If you don't want to overwhelm them, and want some consistency, you could probably use the statistics of a level 7 Gorthek bonded mount, since it will be large by then, and would likely be something like this (trying to be as faithful to the original Gorthek as possible):

Gorthek AnC:
N Large animal
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +9

AC 20, touch 9, flat-footed 20 (+0 Dex, +11 natural, –1 size)
hp 60 (6d8+30)
Fort +11, Ref +5, Will +2 (+6 vs. enchantment spells / effects)
Special Defenses: Evasion

Speed 40 ft.
Melee gore +11 (2d6+16)
Space 10 ft., Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks: Powerful charge (gore, 4d6+16)

Ability Scores: Str 26, Dex 11, Con 18, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 5;
Base Atk +4; CMB +13; CMD 23 (27 vs. trip)
Feats: Great Fortitude, Power Attack, Toughness
Skills: Perception +9

Arachnofiend wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
How is that useless? There's PLENTY of things that give flight to fighters. :p ;)
Clearly it's just supposed to be something that only works once you get to 9th level and can afford a Carpet of Flying. Leave it to a Fighter archetype to not be able to do the things it's advertised to do without outside help...

In my opinion, a self-sufficient flying Fighter is probably done the easiest through the Mutation Warrior archetype - Wings is one of the discoveries available to you. That said, the Mutation Warrior and the Aerial Assaulter don't stack with each other, as both replace Armour Mastery.

Nirdish wrote:
Pounce wrote:

Two thoughts:

Jistkan Artificer + Peg Leg trait = fully functional Edward Elric. Full Metal Alchemist ahooooooy!

Shared Training looks really, really, really good.

Throw in a level of Brawler (Constructed Pugilist) and Deific Obedience for Brigh and you'll be more machine than man.

Ooh, that is a beautiful Brawler archetype if I've ever seen one.

Interestingly enough, the Jistkan Artificer actually gets to penetrate DR / Magic etc when in an antimagic field, since the ability that gives it a faux enhancement bonus has the (Ex) prefix. Take that, dragons!

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Two thoughts:

Jistkan Artificer + Peg Leg trait = fully functional Edward Elric. Full Metal Alchemist ahooooooy!

Shared Training looks really, really, really good.

Aww. Okay, thanks!

The Arial Bloodline arcane states that whenever you are "outdoors during any form of precipitation, your effective caster level is increased by 2."

The Saltspray Ring states that it creates mist that "is exceedingly wet", and that "creatures that must remain wet or suffer a negative effect or condition have that requirement satisfied by the ring’s effect."

As precipitation is (meteorologically speaking) pretty much just falling condensed water, the wet mist created by the ring seems like it would satisfy the conditions of the bloodline arcana to me. Does it work that way, though? Any thoughts?

Automatic Bonus Progression, or ABP for short, is an alternate rules option from Pathfinder Unchained that is intended to mitigate the gear dependency that is baked into the game. This reliance on magical equipment is sometimes also called the "Christmas Tree Effect", simply based off of how many magical items a character ends up wearing.

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Isn't a part of the Awaken Nature Oracle loop to cast Miracle -> Contingency, for a simple "When Intelligence has been drained to <3, cast Awaken" contingency? Simple and self-contained.

To me it seems like they should stack. One adds a set numerical bonus, another adds a second ability score modifier. Seems fine to me.

Alright. I was mainly curious due to how I don't really have a say in which undead end up under my control until level 6, but fair enough, any undead minions at low levels = likely more undead minions than most people will have at low levels. Thanks!

Alright - noted, but other than that? There isn't any sort of feat that lets you add HD to undead under your control, or that allows them to progress in any way?

So I've just had the privilege of starting playing a Gravewalker Witch in Hell's Vengeance, and the second encounter we have is against an advanced ectoplasmic human, that promptly failed its will save against Bonethrall and is now under my character's permanent control.

...Yeah, I can't believe that I'm that lucky either. I figured I'd pick up a crummy skeleton, at some point.

It did however get me thinking - is there a way of advancing your necromantic minions in the game, at all? Any help would be appreciated.

Rather, if you want a +1 trait bonus on attack & damage rolls against anyone, pick Strength of Submission and have somebody cast Sow Thought on you for 10 gp. ;)

The funny thing is that Command Undead is in some ways arguably stronger than Control Undead, given that it offers no save for mindless undead and lasts for days, rather than minutes.

But yeah, it seems like there's been a mixup.

Berselius wrote:
True, I'd just like to have Perform as a class skill for the NPC and maybe a few Bard abilities to go along with it.
Ocean's Echo wrote:
Class Skills: An ocean’s echo adds Bluff, Intimidate, Knowledge (nature), and Perform to her list of class skills.

If you want Versatile Performance, the Whimsy Mystery offers this ability - granted, it is for Perform (Comedy), but seeing as you are creating an NPC, you could easily just say that it applies for Perform (Dance) instead:

Versatile Comedy wrote:
Versatile Comedy (Ex): The powers of whimsy infuse your comedy with the ability to awe and befuddle. You can use your total Perform (comedy) bonus in place of your Bluff and Intimidate bonuses.

Finally, there is also the Songbound Oracle curse, which gives you some other bardic abilities (Countersong being probably the most notable one) but it makes it so that you must always, constantly sing loudly whenever you speak, so it seems to run really contrary to your desire of having a mute oracle, haha.

What specific bardic abilities is it that you're looking for?

Ocean's Echo could suit what you're looking for. Incidentally, based off your other thread, look up the Mute Musician if you want a bard that can't really speak, as there is no official finished "quiet" curse. The closest you'll probably get is Deaf (free Silent Spell, no need to speak when casting), or if you want a very incomplete one, you might consider looking into the first book of Jade Regent, iirc.

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I'm calling it - the Goblins will be lifted from their age-long curse as in Return of the Runelords, Xanderghul himself will come down to Golarion, reclaiming his throne as an enlightened goblin-philosopher king, ushering in a new age of prosperity for the humanoids in PF with the clearly largest brain-to-body ratio in the game.

Just you wait!

Val'bryn2 wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

I didn't realize how powerful standard action summoning was until the low-level summoner in our party summoned a flock of eagles, each with 5 attacks (he had a feat to get them extra natural attacks). Not having to move into flanking with the enemy, they shredded the enemy in round one with their smiting full attacks. Then in round 2, they all full attacked again before the summoner summoned another batch of eagles which also immediately full-attacked!

It was something like 10-20 attacks in round 2, at low levels, and the enemy couldn't even move due to all the eagles everywhere! It totally made the rest of us look like the freaking BMX Bandit running with Angel Summoner. Just terrible.

I was absolutely flabbergasted when I found out that this was the one thing that didn't get fixed with the Unchained Summoner.

Anything is broken when you play it wrong. The Unchained Summoner can only have one SLA Summon Monster running at any given time. If he had a feat to get an extra attack, it brings them up to 4 attacks, with, frankly, pretty low accuracy, since the eagle's smite won't add to attack rolls. And as for a "flock" of eagles, he typically gets 1 at levels 1 and 2, between 1 and 3 at levels 3-4, and at 5 and up between 2-5 eagles. At 7 HP maximum, they won't last long.

While you are entirely correct about the fact that he can only have one SLA running at the time, nothing stops a Summoner from summoning something, have them do their full attacks, then the next round have the pre-existing summoned creatures attack, before you use your SLA again (causing the earlier summons to vanish), getting essentially two sets of full attacks in a round. Having played a monster tactician who only used this as a last resort, let me tell you, it is brutal.

Relevant rules snippet:

A summoner cannot have more than one summon monster or gate spell active in this way at one time. If this ability is used again, any existing summon monster or gate from this spell-like ability immediately ends.

Seducer Witch is charisma based, and prepared iirc.

Kraken Caller + Tetori Monk instead, perhaps? That'll give you lots and lots and lots of tentacles. Plus, it'll give you 9th level casting, so that's always fun.

I guess getting answers to how this is supposed to work after so many years is a bit optimistic, huh.

I think it might stem from the wording in Barkskin and similar spells, since it states that "a creature without natural armor has an effective natural armor bonus of +0."? That's the first thing that comes to mind.

For those unfamiliar with the Smoke Subdomain, it offers this power:

Cloud of Smoke: As a standard action, you can create a 5-foot-radius cloud of smoke. This power has a range of 30 feet. Creatures inside the cloud take a –2 penalty on attack rolls and Perception skill checks for as long as they remain inside and for 1 round after exiting the cloud. Creatures inside the cloud gain concealment from attacks made by opponents that are not adjacent to them. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

This is all well and dandy, except it doesn't say

1) how long it lasts, and
2) what kind of effect the smoke has.

I'm not exactly the first person to wonder about this topic, as it has been around since early 2010, but somehow has never been clarified to my knowledge. The wording doesn't exactly make it seem as if the power is intended to last for one singular round.

Further, I could find a few different sources of smoke by a quick search - the most obvious one being for smoke in general, under the environmental rules / fire hazard rules:



A character who breathes heavy smoke must make a Fortitude save each round (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or spend that round choking and coughing. A character who chokes for 2 consecutive rounds takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. Smoke obscures vision, giving concealment (20% miss chance) to characters within it.

Is this intended to apply? I have a hard time reading it without thinking that it should (same name, same concealment mention), but I'm probably misunderstanding something. If not, is then the intent that the smoke created by the smoke subdomain somehow doesn't make it harder to see, save for the 20% concealment granted to the ones in the smoke, that's more than 5 feet away? What about ranged weapon users, if they are targeting someone on the other side of the smoke cloud, does that only apply the 20% penalty, or not at all, since they are not in the smoke? Can they target anyone on the other side of the smoke? What about anyone with reach weapons?

Alternatively, there's the alternative of a smokestick, which says about the smoke that it makes that

Smokestick wrote:
The smoke fills a 10-foot cube (treat the effect as a fog cloud spell, except that a moderate or stronger wind dissipates the smoke in 1 round). The stick is consumed after 1 round, and the smoke dissipates naturally after 1 minute.
Fog Cloud wrote:
A creature within 5 feet has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker can't use sight to locate the target).

This shares the same effective area (5-foot radius is pretty much equal to a 10-foot square), but doesn't share the same type of concealment. Is this smoke any different from the other two types?

Also, there's the whole business with an eversmoking bottle, but that... seems even more confusing.

Any help?

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I'd argue that the Stonesinger is up there when it comes to being a buffer for the party.

Not only does your regular Inspire Courage stuff with Master Performer + Flagbearer + Banner of the Ancient Kings + Dervish Sikke apply, but starting at level 1, you're giving all enemies within 30 feet (that's touching the ground, not exactly an uncommon occurrence) a -1 penalty to AC just by performing. This penalty keeps on scaling with Inspire Courage naturally, so at level 5, your Inspire Courage gives a +2 to attack / damage, and Tremor gives a -2 penalty to your opponents AC.

Hit level 8, and whenever you start a bardic performance, you're forcing a scaling reflex save for your enemies to save or fall prone. Since level 7, you've been doing this as a MOVE action.

So, not only does it give your allies the standard bonuses to hit, it also gives your enemies up to -8 AC depending on your level, and severely restricts their actions if they fail their reflex save. Not to mention, the 8th level ability seems good enough action-economy wise that it might even be advisable to stop performing and start performing every round, in order to lock your opponents in a prone position. It seems... remarkably strong.

Permanent Animal Growth isn't kosher as far as I know, but Enlarge Person + Permanency should work if you have the share spells class feature - which would work for the Sylvan Sorcerer, Goliath Druid, and Clerics with the Growth / Strength and Animal / Scalykind domains, off the top of my head.

If you're trying to do more with skills without making players feel left out, there's also the consolidated skills option from Unchained, though that might make things more complicated to begin with.

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Orc (or Half-Orc) Druids have a pretty nifty option for boosting Animal Companions:

Orc (Advanced Race Guide pg. 1): Add +1/2 to the damage dealt by the druid's animal companion's natural attacks.

According to this FAQ, Unsworn Shamans do have the hex class feature - which means that they qualify for taking the Extra Hex feat.

However, the Extra Hex (ACG) feat states that

Extra Hex wrote:
You gain one additional hex. You must meet the prerequisites for this hex. If you are a shaman, it must be a hex granted by your spirit rather than one from a wandering spirit.

Problem being, the Unsworn Shaman removes the Spirit class feature.

So, how does this work?
#1: Unsworn Shamans can take Extra Hex, but it doesn't do anything for them. (This seems to be what it reads like to me, RAW)
#2: Unsworn Shamans can take Extra Hex, effectively getting to choose a hex from the current spirit the Shaman had as they got a level, and retaining it regardless of what spirit the Shaman chooses to have at a different day.
#3: Unsworn Shamans can take Extra Hex, but only gain the benefit of it when they bond with the same spirit they had when they took the feat.

Additionally - based off a certain old post by Sean K. Reynolds about new releases of options with identical names doesn't necessarily mean that an already existing option is being replaced. I've seen a post made by the PDT stating that it's mainly options from player companions and other related products that tend to be assimilated and refined into newer core-line books, stating that "The fully refined version will be Paizo's default version for adventures, NPC compilations, and the like moving forward, since it benefited from two development cycles and is available on the PRD" but how does this apply to already existing feats? Because as far as I can tell, there are two versions of Extra Hex on the PRD, the ACG and the APG version - and there doesn't seem to be anything saying that a Shaman / Unsworn Shaman can't select that feat as normal.

So, does this mean that:
#4: Unsworn Shamans (and other Shamans, for that matter) can take Extra Hex (APG) - selecting a non-spirit hex?

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