RAW, I have no idea. As a GM, I would rule that it does not work as I would assume you must have the proper sheath or frog for a weapon to be able to draw it in optimal fashion. If a weapon is improvised, I see no reason to believe it has an optimized sheath.
Again, that would just be my ruling.
Is this Drawing a wand or rod or potion as a improvised weapon and then free action change grip and then use it normally?
In any case i Think no.
too funny, too sleazy, too sweet!
You can draw ammunition as part of an attack with that ammunition being used as ammunition. I don't think that equates to the same thing as drawing an arrow and stabbing someone in the face with it. It is not like you are going to do that with two fingers wrapped around the nock. You would have zero leverage.
And no, there is a point when you can't do things with an improvised weapon. Building a sheath kind of shows it isn't improvised.
And no, there is a point when you can't do things with an improvised weapon. Building a sheath kind of shows it isn't improvised.
Ever see a tool belt? Now add in rough and ready.
Yeah, I wear one almost every day. And people die from them because tools in a tool belt are not secure. Weapons in a sheath are. I wore them every day for 4 years too.
There comes a point where you have to actually suffer the drawbacks of an improvised weapon while gaining all of the benefits of those feats that apply to them.
If you can't quickdraw a weapon-like item that is clearly allowed to be drawn as a free action during movement if you have a +1 BAB or higher, then there is clearly a line between weapons and improvised weapons as well. Or like someone above pointed out, you would just draw that wand as an improvised arrow and get to use it then.
It isn't all about, "can I imagine doing it" it is about how it fits with other rules as well.
Just my take, YMMV.
Where is the drawback of improvised weapons other than a -4 to hit listed Komoda? I see nothing that somehow makes an improvised weapon NOT a subcategory of weapons. It's not weapons and improvised weapons as different thing, it's weapons and some of those happen to be improvised.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Improvised weapons are somthing that is not a weapon used as a weapon. What kind of wording do you need to tell you it is not a weapon?
Words explaining why the improvised sharpened combat scabbard shows up on the one-handed martial weapons list.
Only the normal combat scabbad seem to be Improvised, the sharpened version is not, i think. But any way that weapon already have special rules to pull it out, so i think it is same to say it is a special case.
Edit: and good seeing you again _Ozy_ we seem to disagree on the pulling it out rules:)
|
You can draw ammunition as part of an attack with that ammunition being used as ammunition. I don't think that equates to the same thing as drawing an arrow and stabbing someone in the face with it. It is not like you are going to do that with two fingers wrapped around the nock. You would have zero leverage.
Yeah, that is correct. BBT sometimes like to take bold liberties with his rule interpretations...
Nethys says for combat scabbard. "This scabbard is an improvised weapon" and "For the purpose of fighter weapon groups, a scabbard for a heavy blade is considered a hammer, and a scabbard for a light blade is considered a close weapon." Don't have access to Adventurer's armory ATM.
Ozy, the errata for the book is here. http://paizo.com/products/btpy8dmf?Pathfinder-Player-Companion-Adventurers- Armory
It add the improvised weapons parts.
A chair is an improvised weapon. Can you Quick Draw it?
|
You can draw ammunition as part of an attack with that ammunition being used as ammunition. I don't think that equates to the same thing as drawing an arrow and stabbing someone in the face with it. It is not like you are going to do that with two fingers wrapped around the nock. You would have zero leverage.Yeah, that is correct. BBT sometimes like to take bold liberties with his rule interpretations...
Why should it matter what you are going to do with the arrow?
You pull one out, then decide if you are going to fire it, or use it as an improvised weapons.
There is nothing outside of some time backwards-working, confusing houserule, that I cannot even figure out how one would implement, that would change this.
Bold liberties indeed. Bah.
I cannot even begin to wonder how you would argue against such a thing.
Why should it matter what you are going to do with the arrow?
You pull one out, then decide if you are going to fire it, or use it as an improvised weapons.
There is nothing outside of some time backwards-working, confusing houserule, that I cannot even figure out how one would implement, that would change this.
Bold liberties indeed. Bah.
I cannot even begin to wonder how you would argue against such a thing.
Well, one could argue that when taking an arrow from the quiver to fire, you are grabbing it near the fletching, which is incidentally the part that is exposed in the quiver and therefore the part you would grab first. No extra movement required.
When using the arrow as a weapon, you would be holding it further down the shaft, or the balance would be way off. So, at some point between taking it from the quiver and stabbing someone, you'd have to move where your hand is gripping the arrow from a fingertip-grasp on the fletching to a closed fist further down the shaft. So, it WOULD take longer to draw an arrow for use as an improvised weapon compared to drawing it to fire from a bow.
As far as the rules are concerned, "switch grip" is a free action and would cover changing the way you hold an arrow.
As far as RAI is concerned, Quick Draw specifies weapons, and if you say "I draw my scroll as an improvised weapon and then cast the spell off it" that doesn't make a lot of sense.
Well, that's not even close to what I said. I said drawing an arrow by its end with a fingertips-grasp is probably quicker than grabbing it with a closed fist on the shaft.
Put me down for "depends on the improvised weapon". If I want to use my wheel-lock pistol as a club, I most certainly can quick-draw it before using it as a club, because it actually IS a quick-drawable weapon.
However, you can't use quick-drawing an improvised weapon to get around the restrictions written into the quick-draw feat. You can't use it to get around the action cost for getting to stowed items. Some items may be so bulky or ungainly that they can't be carried in such a way as to be 'drawn'. Ask your GM.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You can quickdraw a 20lbs and maybe 10' dwarven longhammer. "so bulky or ungainly" to be unable to be quickdrawn should be reserved for truly unwieldy items.
This thread kinda petered out a while ago, but...
You can use Quick Draw to draw items of any kind, not just weapons, provided they are stored or concealed on your person. As a move action, you can expend one use of mythic power to retrieve up to two hidden items. You must have two hands free to do so.
Mythic Quick Draw states by implication that you can only quick-draw weapons with normal quick-draw, but nothing else.
-I can quick draw a stein to smash someone's head in, but if it's got a potion in it... I can't, I guess. Also, I can quick draw on oil.-I can quick draw a nice, heavy book, but not a scroll. A book, some of the pages of which are in fact scrolls? I... I don't know.
-I can quick draw a keg of oil, but not a flask of alchemist's fire. I can quick draw a foot long stick, but not a wand... What?
Are all of these examples correct? On the one hand, I think it's silly if they are, but on the other, one has to know these things...
Edit: I am happy to be able to quick draw a frying pan, though.
So in the examples above, you wouldn't be able to draw a heavy book, frying pan, etc.... :P
I don't know if it actually states that you can't quick-draw non-weapons anywhere, but Mythic Quick-Draw implies that you can't.
That's my two bits on it, anyway. Sorry to revive such an old thread.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
It would be pretty amazing if you could. Just use it to draw "improvised weapons" such as potions and wands. One would assume you shouldn't do it in good conscious, though.
RAW, I'm fine with you drawing anything you intend to use as a weapon with Quick Draw.
When you draw a potion and then "Drink" it, I'll ret-con the draw back to a move.
It would be pretty amazing if you could. Just use it to draw "improvised weapons" such as potions and wands. One would assume you shouldn't do it in good conscious, though.RAW, I'm fine with you drawing anything you intend to use as a weapon with Quick Draw.
When you draw a potion and then "Drink" it, I'll ret-con the draw back to a move.
When you pull out something like a wand, it doesn't have to be one or the other. For instance, you could draw a wand, use it for a spell and then make AoO with it. This is no different than quickdrawing a Tidewater Cutlass just to use it's 1/day hydraulic push. In both cases you didn't make a weapon attack but used a magic ability instead. Some weapons are MORE likely to be use for something other than a weapon attack, like a Quarterstaff of Entwined Serpents.
As someone who has played with a Monk of the Empty Hand with the feat Chairbreaker...
I let him Quick Draw anything as an Improvised Weapon as long as he had it on him and intended to smash someone with it. No cheesy wand or potion crap, just honest to goodness chairs, spoons, irons, chair legs, rocks, mugs, etc.
Oh... I wonder if I can combine it with Disposable Weapon and Splintering Weapon...
Probably table Variance.
I'd personally go with Splintering Weapon as something that works and Disposable Weapon as something that does not.
Disposable weapon confirms the crit by breaking, but since you threatened a crit you are hitting anywhere so you already broke your weapon on impact. Splintering weapon just gives you the ability to direct the breaking into delicious bleed damage.
Still probably not worth the feat, IMO.
The idea of a PC with Throw Anything drawing a potion as a free action came up at one of our tables recently, and the DM seemed to share James Risner's view that the intended use of the potion (throw it or drink it) should determine whether pulling it out is a free or move action.
I can understand that sentiment though I think such issues actually become even weirder without Quick Draw since the PC might try to draw a potion while moving with the intent of throwing it but then decide to administer it to a fallen ally instead. Would the PC suddenly move back to where he or she started? Need to spend an extra Move action to make up for the one not spent last round? Be able to administer the potion as a full round action as long as the DM believed the potion was drawn "in good faith" as a weapon?
I'm guessing that "Table Variance" really is the best answer to the original question and some of the others being raised, but I feel like improvised weapons and Quick Draw could both stand to be a little nicer, so I'd be inclined to be generous so long as the PC drawing the improvised weapon is "proficient" in it via some feat, trait, or class ability (Rough and Ready, for instance).
Probably table Variance.
I'd personally go with Splintering Weapon as something that works and Disposable Weapon as something that does not.
Disposable weapon confirms the crit by breaking, but since you threatened a crit you are hitting anywhere so you already broke your weapon on impact. Splintering weapon just gives you the ability to direct the breaking into delicious bleed damage.
Still probably not worth the feat, IMO.
When a fragile item gets broken a second time, it's destroyed. So couldn't I destroy it for disposable to work?
And you are most likely right and it isn't worth a feat... For a PC. Now for a feral NPC throwing bone weapons...? Maybe.
Devilkiller: I've always disliked that intent alters the action needed to do the exact same action. I draw a flask: If I intend to load it into a flaskthrower it might be a free action. Now I draw the same flask to drink it and it's a move... What if I load it into my flaskthrower then drink it (it's right there after all)? I'd prefer the same action no matter what I end up doing with it.
EDIT: NikolaiJuno, nothing stops improvised weapons from being made of special materials. Primitive materials like bone are fragile by nature.
It wouldn't be tough to wear potions and scrolls in a bandolier. I'd kind of assume they're there for easy access. I wish the bandolier allowed folks to draw such items as a swift action but maybe also exposed them to threats like being smashed, stolen by opponents, etc. There was an object which worked kind of like this in 3.5, and I don't recall it breaking the game.
My goblin would love to draw potions quickly from his bandolier. My orc would rather draw potions from an enemy's bandolier (via the Steal maneuver I suppose). Everybody would win.