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Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 164 posts (380 including aliases). 2 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 6 aliases.


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I've never made a character that focuses on summons and it could be fun, but with 7 players I'm afraid I'd slow things down, even if I was always as prepared as I could be.

Eldritch Archers are cool, but you've got a point about them playing similar to my Inquisitor. I am very tempted to do a thrown weapon magus, though... Magus are cool, I just need to find a way around thrown ammunition destroying itself after it's used. On a similar vein, I've never done a Warlock Vigilante before.
Kineticists and I don't really mesh, unfortunately - every time I start making one, I get sidetracked into doing something else that fulfills my personal goals better.

I really like shuriken ninjas, but unfortunately I've never been able to put one together that satisfies me. It hasn't been for lack of trying, though! Part of it comes back to the whole disposable ammunition thing I mentioned with the magus. In addition I'm wary of relying on Invisibility for my main shtick because it's so easy to counter, considering the enemies we've been fighting are intelligent and have used scrying in the past.

So far I'm most tempted by an alchemist, an overwatch-style fighter, a thrown-weapon magus, or warlock vigilante... 2/3rds casters are addicting in their utility and versatility (alchemists aren't 2/3ds, but they use extracts which have similar application in this context).

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We're currently 8th level, but I don't intend on dying soon and we're leveling fairly quickly so I'd say 10 is a reasonable level to build for.

Shadowcraft laser rifles sound spicy, but that will save to disbelieve sounds a bit worrisome - especially considering it scales off the enhancement bonus of the weapon. It'd get expensive fast, haha. Although we do have a few crafters in the party, so that would help.

A ranged sunder build is intriguing, although I expect there to be lots of Proteans in our future, and I'm not sure I'll get much use out of it. (natural weapons, et cetera) Other combat maneuvers are a possibility, though. Magic items and holy symbols do make enticing targets, too! My GM is pretty flexible, so he could probably adjust to me destroying stuff he intended to give to the party.

We've already got a skald in our party, as well as an Arcanist who's leaning heavily towards dispel/counterspell shenanigans, so I'm leaning away from that last suggestion. Stepping on toes is inevitable when there's this many players, but I'd rather not be too redundant ;)

I'll confess I don't particularly like the feel of Alchemists, although if anything could make me get over that bias it would be the prospect of lots of explosions. They're INT-based as well, which would let me keep rolling skill checks.
On closer inspection, Grenadiers are pretty cool. Is there any particular (cost-efficient) alchemical dusts/liquids that pair well with their Alchemical Weapon class feature? Their ability to make alchemical items themselves obviously comes in handy there.

All the suggestions are appreciated! In retrospect it looks like I only pointed out all the things wrong with each of those, but whatever I may have said about each idea they did get me thinking, which was the point of this thread ^-^

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Overwatch style could be fun, with the Crossbowman Fighter archetype and a few levels of Unchained Rogue. Although Unchained Rogue would mean a hit to my BAB, so I'd get Overwatch Vortex later. It'd take some tinkering, to figure out how to best take advantage of everything. I've never made a crossbow-based character, either, so that sounds interesting

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I'm trying to think of a backup character for me to play in the event that my current character dies. I don't plan on dying, but I'd like to be ready for the unexpected.

There's 7 players total in this campaign (plus the GM), so I'm trying to find something that fills the niche I currently fill, but I'd also like it to feel different.
I am currently an Inquisitor Archer, with an emphasis on skill checks. I'm looking for other types of ranged characters - builds that don't use spell-casting or melee as their plan A (although backup plans are always nice, and spells are great for utility), and aren't necessarily archery-based.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm not looking for fully fleshed out builds, but if there's a particular archetype or feat that enables something new, I'd like to hear about it :)

I hope that made sense, feel free to ask for clarification if I was unclear. I realize this is a kind of vague question, which is why I'm looking more for bread-crumb trails I can go follow than fully fleshed out builds.

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Have you decided whether we're doing it on discord versus the forums? I'd rather do discord, but can live with either.

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Here's my submission - Order of the Baked Potato's ability to grant advantage on attack rolls should go well with the Order of the Beef's tendency to give extra attacks and actions.

Crispen "Chips" Chippendale
Order of the Baked Potato

Stat block:

HP: 13 (12+1)

Strength: 10 (9+1)
Intelligence: 9
Charm: 9
Arcana: 18 (16+2)
Grace: 6

Defense: 13

Spork (1d6, Standard, 2-handed, 30ft)
Sleeping Bag
10ft rope
Basic Fishing Pole (DC16)

Skilled With: Heavy armor, throwing weapons and projectile weapons
Cannot Use: Light armor or finesse weapons

Salt of the Earth [passive]: When an encounter is taking place outside, add an additional +1 to all Arcana rolls.

Hearty Fulfillment: On a successful Arcana roll of 12 or high-er, you and friends within 20 feet of you will have raised spir-its, gaining advantage on attack rolls for the next two turns.

The son of two members of the Order of the French Fry, Crispen Chippendale was given his name in hopes that he would follow in their footsteps. Unfortunately, Chips proved to be a disappointment in that regard, choosing instead to shape his life after potatoes that have been baked, as opposed to fried.

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I'm intrigued! I hope I can come up with a character that will do the setting justice.
Base HP: 4d4 ⇒ (4, 2, 3, 3) = 12

4d4 ⇒ (4, 4, 4, 4) = 16
4d4 ⇒ (3, 3, 2, 1) = 9
4d4 ⇒ (1, 1, 4, 3) = 9
4d4 ⇒ (2, 1, 1, 2) = 6
4d4 ⇒ (2, 4, 1, 2) = 9

Leaning towards Order of the Baked Potato.

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This might just be me being blind, but does the new one have anywhere for you to put your spells? The old sheet has a full page for it, but for some reason I can't find anything for tracking spells on the new one.
More columns could be nice, though.

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Hey all!
I am making this post because Gyrwynt is unavailable for the next few hours, but he wanted to give fair warning ahead of time.
The deadline for character submissions has been moved to 12:00 (noon) Mountain Daylight Time on Friday.
(This post should be roughly 17 hours old).
There's been a number of pretty enticing submissions so far, and Gyrwynt is afraid that leaving submissions open for a full week will make his (already difficult) choice even harder.

By my count, the list of submissions so far is as follows:

@Simeon: Cleric/Exalted of Abadar (completed)
@MattZ: Empiricist Investigator (completed)
@Djack: Human Evoker Wizard with some other stuff mixed in(completed, but will need to be moved to Mythweavers at some point)
@Storm Dragon: Name Keeper Shaman (not complete, but you seem to have a pretty good idea of what you want to do with it)
@LetcherMan69: Drunken Dwarf Alchemist Monk (not completed)

This is not a final list, just a summary of who's thrown their hat in the ring so far.

Note that if you're selected, you should be able to make tweaks to your character until it's officially approved on the discord server.

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Craft Wonderous Items covers a more expensive selection of magic items than Arms/Armor (in general), so that (Wonderous Items) is probably the better place to start

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Hello! I'm the Inquisitor.
I'm the closest we've got to a trap-finder AFAIK, but that's just because I have a high perception as well as disable device trained. No related class features, or ability to deal with magic traps.

Another item crafter would be neat too - as Gyrwynt mentioned our arcanist can craft, but so far it can be a bit difficult for her to keep up with the wish lists of a mid-level party of 6.

For anyone interested, here's the party's character sheets:

Champion of the Cascade Paladin
Viking Fighter
Mutation Warrior Fighter (VMC Wizard)

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Hey! Those discord invites Gyrwynt sent out will have expired by now, so I sent new ones. @Viondar, @MattZ, @Radiant Mercy check your inbox for the links.

I hope you guys can make it - I look forward to adventuring with you!

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@Keante - that's a nifty spreadsheet, and I filled details for myself and the other two.

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Lore Warden is an archetype for fighter that is designed to counter the Dumb Fighter stereotype ^.^

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I'm the inquisitor he keeps mentioning - hello! My character has been more-or-less finalized as a Skinwalker (Aerieborn) Inquisitor with a few archetypes and the Aspiring Bookworm trait. Another player is a Duskwalker Druid who plans on focusing on melee, and another one is tentatively leaning towards Arcanist who likes Divination.

@Gramork I get the impression that Gyrwynt plans on having us make a bunch of will saves. Several of the campaign traits he gave us mention "effects that read or modify memory", as well.

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Jinath wrote:
Very excited. About how long does it take items to ship and the pdf to be downloadable?

The email I received told me to expect the shipment to ship/to expect the pdf within ”2 to 13 business days”.

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Just a heads up, the new Martial Arts Handbook that is coming out has some pretty decent nonlethal options in it.
Not something you can use right now (unless you're subscribed to the Player's Companion line), but depending on how soon you need your character it's something to keep an eye out for online.
Sorry to be so vague :P

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Just got my pdf, and as someone who usually plays unarmed characters I think this is my favorite players companion ever.
Everything in the first half of the book looked like something I would consider using (on an appropriate character), and while the next 1/4th didn't appeal much to me personally, the last 1/4th jumped back up there.

Are handwraps really as exciting as I think they are?

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Yeah, figured. Thanks for the reminder of Greater Magic Weapon, I'll shell out for a Lesser Extend Metamagic rod and have my sorcerer buddy enchant my stuff for me - you're right about 50 probably being more than I'll throw in a day :)

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I recently built a fancy shuriken character, because for some reason I remembered the Gloves of Improvised Might and thought they applied to ammunition/shuriken for some reason.

I realize this is a long shot, but is there any items I could have been thinking of that work similarly of the AoMF or the Gloves, but for non-improvised thrown weapons?

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Warrior Poet is hands-down my favorite part of the book! It's viable and worth taking, without being overpowered at all.
The other stuff is cool, but I'm just hyped that there's a samurai archetype that gets rid of all the stuff I'm not interested in doing and replaces it with stuff that I am.

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I'm looking for class abilities/archetypes that allow the user to bypass DR - does anybody know of any?

I am aware of the Martial Artist Monk, and the Steel-Breaker Brawler, but I'm wondering if there's any other archetypes/abilties that function similar to the Exploit Weakness ability of those two archetypes.

Is there any others, or is it just those two?

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ChibiNyan wrote:
CraziFuzzy wrote:

So do feats have level requirements as well? It'd be great to see something like:

Sudden Charge (Fighter 1, General 5) - meaning a Fighter can take the feat as a class feat at level 1+, and any other character can take it as a general feat at level 5+.

Can't favorite this post enough! It would solve the issue of feats being "locked behind" classes. Some abilities should 100% be class specific, but I think others are fine with just being preferential to a class and avialable later. Also sharing them would eliminate the hard barriers they ended up building betwen classes (In theory bigger ones than in PF1).

Good job!

They have done this at least a little bit in PF1e, for example with style feats. Lots of style feats have prereqs like "Monk level 5 or Character level 9".

It would definitely be welcome if they did it more in PF2e, though. Most style feats are considered niche even for Monks, let alone for everyone else.

The most common explanation I've heard for feat taxes is give Fighters an advantage with their large number of feats. Giving feats alternative level prerequisites would be a better way of accomplishing the same thing, IMO, and getting rid of feat taxes is undeniably a good thing.

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I stand corrected :D

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FAQs and errata don't really do the same thing, though. As far as I'm aware, FAQs are used to clarify vague or contradictory rules (more or less), and errata is used to correct typos and misprinted information.

An FAQ wouldn't be very appropriate for Shifter's Edge because as it stands, there is no vague-ness or clarification required - they just flat out printed the wrong text :)

That's my understanding of things, anyway. I could be wrong.

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How does ooze form interact with psychic spellcasting? I think it's pretty clear that you can't cast psychic spells while in ooze form by RAW, but what about RAI?

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shaventalz wrote:

graystone wrote:
Bard: filgih [divine casting, druid armor, nature songs]

Do they use the Druid spell list?

Nope! They still cast spells as a bard, using the bard spell list. It just changes arcane to divine.

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Gisher wrote:
NewXToa wrote:
Sir_Andrew wrote:
does the stargazer just get proficiency in star knives? or does it get so special abilities with them as well?
The Star Watcher archetype also gets access to two investigator talents that work with starknifes.
Ok, this has now become the first thing I'm checking out when I get this book.

They basically let you use your melee-only Investigator abilities when throwing your starknife.

jedi8187 wrote:
I'm fairly certain we will get new foci as more supplements come out. Which reminds me the new animal foci in this book for the shifter, does the Hunter get access to them? Would be easy enough to adapt them for the hunter if not?

The Shifter's Minor Forms seem to be about the same power level as (and at least in a few cases directly copy/pasted from) the Hunter's Animal Focus.

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I believe that instead of being able to make the creature land in a space adjacent to you, it now needs to be a square adjacent to both you and the creature in question.

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Sir_Andrew wrote:
does the stargazer just get proficiency in star knives? or does it get so special abilities with them as well?

The Star Watcher archetype also gets access to two investigator talents that work with starknifes.

Rysky wrote:

Because bestow curse is f&+$ing scary. And near limitless in what it can do.

*mumble mumble* martials *mumble* nice things *mumble mumble*

I guess I can see why they'd nerf Wolf Savage, but as shaventalz said, that was only the 3rd feat in the chain. In addition, the nerfs they made to Wolf Style and Wolf Trip didn't affect how often Wolf Savage triggers at all, so there was apparently more than just Bestow Curse that the devs had an issue with.
Edit: Sorry, I meant to say "some of the nerfs made to..."

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Pennate wrote:
How different is the Wolf Style tree from its original incarnation? What is the gathlain's new kineticist FCB like?

With Wolf Style, the amount of damage beyond the initial 10 you need to deal to reduce their speed was doubled. There are also minor clarifications regarding duration and the order of resolution of events. Wolf Trip received a small nerf regarding where your victims can land, and Wolf Savage was changed from acting as Bestow Curse to let you either fatigue, deal CHA damage, or deal CON damage.

Does anyone know why Wolf Style was nerfed? It was a cool feat chain, but it wasn't something that really struck me as overpowered.

Galthains don't have a Kineticist FCB listed :P Vine Leshys can get extra wood-element wild talents, though.

Mbertorch wrote:
Also, are any of the Ranger archetypes Spell-less?

Some of the archetypes add spells to your spell list, but none of them swap out spells :/

Bladelock wrote:
Anyone have any info on the Wasteland Meditant archetype for monk?

It's a chained monk archetype that swaps Stunning Fist out for something that fatigues your opponent, and can be activated as a free action when you deal damage (no need to declare that you're using it ahead of time!). It gets Evasion/Improved Evasion for Fort. saves, and concealment when taking double move actions in a desert. It can also turn people into salt at 15th level, instead of quivering fist :D

I don't expect to ever play a game set in a desert, so I probably won't ever use it, but if you are planning to this is an archetype worth considering, at least. It's a cool archetype.

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Thomas Seitz wrote:
So far this book sounds more useful than I previously expected. :) Which is to say I thought it would be VERY useful. Now it's a must have. :)

It definitely has a lot of cool stuff! The main problem with it is that the Shifter seems underwhelming and redundant when compared to other options. Other than that, though, there's a lot of cool stuff in this book!

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Feros wrote:
NewXToa wrote:
Do druids get access to any worthwhile/notable domain/domain equivalents?
** spoiler omitted **


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Do druids get access to any worthwhile/notable domain/domain equivalents?

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Do you have to make a Spellcraft check when adding new abilities to/upgrading magic items?
For example, when upgrading an Amulet of Mighty Fists from +1 to +1 Flaming. Do you have to make a Spellcraft check, or do you just have to meet the construction requirements for the new abilities, pay the additional gold, and spend the required time (that's a mouthful, so in the future when I say "construction requirements", assume I also include the gold and time requirements)?

If you just have to meet the construction requirements (no Spellcraft check required), does that mean it's impossible to upgrade magic items if you don't meet all the new construction requirements? When crafting brand new items you can just increase the DC for requirements you don't meet, so it'd be a pity if you were unable to do the same when upgrading items.

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Stratagemini wrote:
<A massive wall of useful text>

Thanks for this. It was way easier to read through this than to patrol the AMA checking for new responses :D

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Saethori mentioned this in her list, but I'll expand on it here: Attempting a random combat maneuver that you don't have the Improved feat for provokes an AoO. If you don't have any iterative attacks from high BAB, the combat maneuver takes a standard action, but if you have multiple attacks you can replace one of them with a trip, disarm, or sunder attempt.
That means you can take a full round action (something most martials want to do normally) to attack, then attempt to trip your opponent (if you succeed, they're now prone, and even if you fail you provoked an AoO, meaning you get that bonus damage from your opponent hitting you).

Whereas dropping something and picking it up effectively does nothing but waste a move action (at lower levels this doesn't really matter, 'cause you probably weren't going to do anything with that move action anyway, but at higher levels it means you're giving up iterative attacks), replacing an attack with a combat maneuver attempt provokes an attack of opportunity while at the still time contributing to the actual combat. It also means it won't be as easy for your GM to justify not taking that AoO because the NPC suspects something's up (it's kinda weird to repeatedly jump in and out of your opponent's threatened area, or repeatedly pick up and drop an item).

The things other posters have mentioned work too, of course. It might even be a good idea to mix it up and vary your strategy for provoking, to make it harder for the NPC to justify not taking the AoO :D

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But....We worked so hard!
I feel betrayed.

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How's the weather?

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Tacticslion wrote:
So, who here watches Isaac Arthur?

I've never heard of him. What does he do?

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pinvendor wrote:

Hmmm...I am seeing a similar issue. Next AP sub scheduled is Ironfang #4 instead of the expected #3.

My Subscriptions wrote:

Most recent volume:

Pathfinder Adventure Path #115: Trail of the Hunted (Ironfang Invasion 1 of 6) (PFRPG) shipped by 03/20/17 via USPS Package Service (estimated 4 to 8 business days in transit)
Pathfinder Adventure Path #116: Fangs of War (Ironfang Invasion 2 of 6) (PFRPG) shipped by 03/20/17 via USPS Package Service (estimated 4 to 8 business days in transit)
Next volume:
Pathfinder Adventure Path #118: Siege of Stone (Ironfang Invasion 4 of 6) (PFRPG) is scheduled to ship May 2017 will be the next volume to ship
Where did Ironfang Invasion 3 go?

This happened to me yesterday, but Redelia's comment prompted me to wait and see if it would sort itself out. This morning, I got an email saying my order for Ironfang book 3 had been submitted. Seems like if you wait a bit, things will work out.

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Dragon78 wrote:

Did it say "final" before, I must have missed that.

Ha - I figured out the problem. My laptop has a word filter that changes assorted words to other words - most of the time it's just amusing, but sometimes I forget the filter is there for words that I don't see as often. The first time I read the post, the filter changed "latest" to "final", and then the second time I checked I was on my tablet, which does not have the filter. It's all in my head!

For those that are curious, this is the filter, with some of my own substitutions added.

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They updated it, which is relieving.

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Product Description wrote:
Overviews of druidic sects and rituals, new spells, archetypes, and character options, and more round out the final contribution to the Pathfinder RPG rules!

Am I the only one that noticed this weird phrasing?

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PossibleCabbage is correct. It's an easy mistake to make, I did the same thing the first time I made a Zen Archer (turns out, Zen Archers getting WIS to damage is completely broken). You probably only want a 14 at most in DEX, and you'll want STR to be your second-highest ability score.

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Welcome to Pathfinder!

1. Point-blank shot and most other archery feats do work with Flurry of Bows - the exceptions should be called out in the ability description. Specifically, Rapid Shot and Multishot do not. Feats that require a standard action (such as Pinpoint Targeting) also do not stack. Everything else will probably be fine.

2. Snatch Arrows works off of Deflect Arrows, so you would only be able to catch one arrow per round.

Snatch Arrows wrote:
When using the Deflect Arrows feat you may choose to catch the weapon instead of just deflecting it.

Snatch Arrows isn't taken very often because it doesn't really do enough to justify taking. Deflect Arrows can be nice (it's a bit situational, but it's not terrible), but all Snatch Arrows lets you do is not drop the arrow after you stop it from hitting you. Arrows are cheap enough that it's pretty much a waste of a feat.

3. Feat-wise, Zen Archers are pretty easy to build. You'll want to take Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Deadly Aim early on, but you can get all but the latter through your bonus feats. Don't bother taking Rapid Shot and Multishot, because they do not stack with your flurry of blows (as mentioned above). Eventually, you'll want to take Hammer the Gap.

With your items, you'll want to get a Composite Longbow (or a shortbow, if you prefer) as soon as you can. You'll probably want to get the Adaptive enhancement on the bow as soon as possible, so you don't have to keep replacing your bow each time your STR changes.
Bracers of Armor will be nice to have, and you'll want to start increasing your WIS and STR with a Belt of Giant Strength and a Headband of Inspired Wisdom. A Cloak of Resistance will also be nice to have, but I wouldn't consider it a priority because your saves will be naturally good.

You can pretty much take whatever traits you want, although I favor the Reactive trait for that sweet initiative bonus. Your strategy in combat will be pretty simple - just stand there and shoot everything that moves. The sooner you start shooting, the sooner stuff starts dying >.>

Everything PossibleCabbage said is true as well. The Quinggong archetype is amazing, and swapping Slow Fall for Barkskin is almost mandatory :)

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How would you adjust a party's APL to compensate for additional player wealth? For example, how would a party being 4 levels over WBL effect their APL?

Coming at it from another angle, how much additional wealth could you dump on a party of 2 to help bring them up to par (or close to it) with a party of 4?
I realize action economy is hard to compensate for, and I acknowledge the fact that a party of four is going to be much more versatile than a party of two. I'd just like to have somewhere to start when making encounters for a group that is significantly over APL, or when adding loot to an AP to help out a smaller party.

Thanks for your thoughts!

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PossibleCabbage wrote:
Only possible downside is if the GM decides to pick on the archer by sundering bows.

In which case the Zen Archer doesn't even need to carry a backup weapon - unarmed strikes are built into the class (granted, an AoMF would come in handy, you no longer get flurry, and you are back down to functioning at 3/4ths BAB).

Other than that, there's absolutely no downsides to having your bow sundered ;)

Anyway, it's the same problem the 2HW Fighter has when his greatsword gets taken and he's handed a sickle instead (to use an example mentioned upthread).

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I agree with dragonhunterq.

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