Do the automatic ranks in the 2 class skills the phantom gains from their emotional foci come out of their normal ranks or are these bonus points that do not count against the total?They would have to come out of their normal skill ranks for the math to come out right. After all, they are outsiders with the same starting intelligence as eidolons, so they should have the same number of skill ranks. The only way that having only two skill ranks per hit die works out is if two of the ranks are already accounted for as mandatory expenditures.
Okay, I really managed to get that twisted up.
What I should have said is that the bonus skill ranks come out of the 6 + Int mod skill ranks that an outsider gets each level. Subtract 2 ranks for the intelligence penalty for Int 7 and then another 2 for the mandatory skill ranks and you are left with the 2 skill ranks per level given in the table.
I reread my original post and I would Like to reiterate something:
Quick off topic:
Hi guys. This is my first official post. I like pathfinder very much and I give all of my support to Paizo.
On topic:
.........
The phantom itself could be more.... Its reliance on touch spells in incorporeal form weakens it greatly (when its combat ability isn't so strong in the first place). I believe normal incorporeal rules for it would have been fine. Also, the emotion foci could have given them more oomph (something more on par with an eidolon though not quite as powerful)
What I meant by "normal incorporeal" rules was for the phantom to be able to attack other incorporeal creatures normally. Not for it to be able to attack corporeal creatures normally while incorporeal. That's where the touch spells come in.
Though if an emotional foci were to allow that or some other way to more physically interact, such as the ability to temporarily possess other creatures, then I'm all for it. (It would be the Phantom foci special ability instead of being part of all phantoms.)
What is this class actually meant to be doing? I can't figure out it's role.
Also, many of the abilities uses are so minimal that they seem pointless. Not just see invisibility, but Bonded Manifestation likely wont see Any use since it requires giving up your phantom, gives rather minor benefits since you only get one, and you only have them for a few rounds per day.
After watching a Spiritualist in play....I'm a little confused about all of the complaints that an incorporeal phantom at 1st level is "broken"...
They cant attack (other than delivering touch attacks)even against other incorporeal opponents....
Yes they are good for scouting...but that's hardly game breaking....
So what's the issue exactly ?
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Yes they are good for scouting...but that's hardly game breaking....
So what's the issue exactly ?
There really isn't one. Ectoplasmic form makes for a great scout anyway, and you won't get stuck with a pet unable to attack.
It's also a little more fair to the DM, since ectoplasmic form is easier to spot and attack.
In any event, gloves of reconaissance (super cheap magic item - http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/glove s-of-reconnaissance) do a far better job anyway, since they don't risk alerting the monsters and aggroing an entire dungeon.
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Just finished my second Spiritualist playtest. 3rd level. Thoughts:
1) We were in a dungeon with no slashing damage. At low levels, this meant my phantom was basically immune to everything the dungeon could throw at it. DR 5/slashing is really too good for 1st level, but pointless at 20th level.
Suggestion: The DR should be set to half the phantom's HD.
2) I did no "Spiritualizing". In other words, the class didn't play like an "occult" class should play. I just swung my polearm, and had my phantom pip down enemies a little bit at a time while tanking through their 1d6 piercing damage attacks. Spells cast: CLW x2, Shield x2. This play experience was no different from that of a hunter or druid. The only special class ability I used was an edge case both where my phantom was not out on the battlefield *and* I failed a will save. So I used my daily ability to avoid being confused for one round. /shrug.
Suggestion: More flavorful abilities! I think it would be pretty neat if spiritualists, at 1st level, could speak with recently deceased enemies. You know all those times you mean to question a bad guy but accidentally kill them all? Having a spiritualist would let you question them anyway. Maybe have it only work within a minute of death, and require a diplomacy check to get them to talk. Being able to innately talk to ghosts and haunts would be pretty cool, too.
3) Scouting. Ectoplasmic phantom form is my favorite thing about the class. Makes scouting fun, and opens up lots of options in combat for flanking, or getting around bottlenecks. Please don't remove phase lurch! It's the best thing the class has going for it. As with last time, clarification of if it can bypass ghost touch or force effects would be nice.
Suggestion: Honestly? Phantoms don't need an incorporeal option. It complicates the class, and doesn't really do anything (except maybe a too-powerful scout, according to some people). Either remove it, or make it a higher level option (8th?), at which point in time monsters will have all sorts of magical attacks that can harm incorporeal anyway.
4) Damage output: Still abysmal.
5) Armor class: Identical to eidolons, which is really too high when combined with mage armor and the shield spells. 25 AC is really high for 3rd level.
Suggestion: It's not fun for a DM to miss a phantom with every attack, and it's not fun for a player to do 4.55 DPR with a pet in a pet class at 3rd level. Drop a bit of defense, and boost a little bit of offense.
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I'd have to agree w/ShakaUVM re: no "Spiritualizing" for the spiritualist (at early levels at least).
In the last encounters both social and combative, I had thought perhaps one feature could be the Spiritualist going into a trance or meditative state similar to Magic Jar...this would be to further augment the manifested Phantom's ectoplasmic form.
The trance would leave the Spiritualist unaware of their surroundings to some degree or completely making them helpless but boost the abilities of the phantom considerably (like a mental rage). This could be only done for a limited amount of time and/or per day but if this class needed to go in the direction of more combative or versatility this could certainly be a direction to explore. If the phantom can manifest the mind of the spiritualist and grant them bonuses, going with that theme the spiritualist can manifest the phantom and grant it bonuses as well.
I had also thought each emotional focus could be expanded on so there was an option to focus more on the incorporeal form or the ectoplasmic form...and the more choices you make towards one form makes it stronger/durable/better etc at the cost of limiting and eventually giving up the ability to use the other form.
Mid to higher levels, I'd much rather have a wraith like phantom that passes through enemy lines and wreaks havoc with it's spirit claws...or an ectoplasmic brute that swing a large ghostly blade cleaving the enemy...vs having 2 mediocre phantoms that are really good at scouting and helping me with skill checks, or being a beefed up unseen servant.
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Re: Bonded Manifestation (Su): At 3rd lvl as a standard action...the spiritualist can create an ectoplasmic shield that grants a +4 shield bonus to AC. This lasts a number of rounds equal to her spiritualist level each day, etc etc and can be dismissed as a free action. The phantom must be still mount to her consciousness.
This ability doesn't improve currently (without feat support), the ecto shield doesn't provide any additional benefits at least not stated, and as a standard action, the spiritualist could just cast "shield" the spell with a much longer duration and the rider effect of negating magic missiles and not be restricted to having to have the phantom still in her head. It also doesn't state if the shield hovers around, or can be wielded, only that it doesn't restrict the spiritualist in any way.
I would suggest making this ability an immediate action that lasts up to 1 round per class level, that can be dismissed as a free action...or X + wisdom modifier, or modifying the power further to emulate the wave shield, except it grants DR X/slashing exactly like the phantom's ecto form.
It's made of ectoplasm, it's manfiest, it's limited in it's duration, yet it provides only a +4 shield bonus. Why not ecto armor, or ecto shield that stacks w/the shield spell or a shield bonus, or go more green lantern with the abilities and let them make all sorts of ecto equipment with a longer duration and functionality.
...so much flavor this class has.
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The terrible duration on Spiritualist abilities is one of the driving problems of the class imo. Occultist gets Aura Sight at-will while the Spirtualist gets rounds/level bonded manifestation that takes a standard to activate that is less effective than a 1st-level spell, or See Invisibility for 1 minute (not even 1 minute/level). The phantoms aren't even free from this, as they get rounds/level auras and several have 1/day SLA's as features (Anger has *2*). Given how little the Spiritualist seems to change from the Summoner, these seem to be far too inferior "replacements" to losing the combat capabilities of the Eidolon and the Summon Monster SLA.
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I have to agree that level 1 incorporeal is too iffy even when the thing can't fight. You have the perfect scout and spy for low level campaigns, which is where such things matter most.
In addition, the ectoplasmic phantom is too weak with 12 Str and 14 Dex. Right now there is very little reason not to summon it as incorporeal every time. If we summon it "solidly" can we make it a bit stronger so that it can actually participate in combat? It's already very different mechanically than an eidolon so making it a decent fighter should be okay.
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I am using the Hatred Phantom and while he is not the highest damage dealer at the table... he did have to most kills in Slaveships... I think you need to be creative with how to use them... the fact that they can move through walls makes them amazing to get into flanking. I "broke" Godsmouth Heresy because he could get behind any fight and with a fully buffed AC of 22 at level 1 nothing could hit him and they also couldn't retreat.
If the phantom equips a cursed item, does that item "unsummon" with him? Does the item fall to the ground with the curse removed until the phantom is resummoned? Could someone else then equip the cursed item?
I am using the Hatred Phantom and while he is not the highest damage dealer at the table... he did have to most kills in Slaveships... I think you need to be creative with how to use them... the fact that they can move through walls makes them amazing to get into flanking. I "broke" Godsmouth Heresy because he could get behind any fight and with a fully buffed AC of 22 at level 1 nothing could hit him and they also couldn't retreat.
Hatred is not a terrible damage dealer, considering their scaling damage and eventual sneak attack. It is just a problem that it never gets more than two attacks and does not take enchanted weapons (not without using two 3rd level spells every day, anyways).
I am not sure if your concerns about armor class are a big deal. You don't exactly have a ton of 1st level spells early on and alchemists can hand it out to anyone they want, anyways (and I don't think alchemists are "broken"). Moreover, when you finally have a ton of 1st level spells to play with, monster attack bonuses get high enough that it becomes less of an issue.
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I have some questions about phantoms, and I'm not sure if they've been asked already (my apologies if they have).
The first question I have is this: It says specifically in the playtest rules that Phantoms cannot wear armor - but can they wield weapons? Can a phantom choose Martial Weapon Proficiency as their first feat - then start swinging a Greatsword without a penalty (and just like an Eidolon)?
Also, if the answer to that first question is yes, then do they get iterative attacks with said weapon (although it's mentioned that Phantoms don't get iteratives with their slams - it says nothing about manufactured weapons)?
Finally, if Phantoms can & doe wield manufactured weapons, then how does that interact with their slam attacks? Can a Phantom slam with it's hands full (thus, if it wields a weapon and attacks with said weapon, can it also slam its opponents in the same turn with a full-attack action)? Are the slams counted as attacks with its "fists" (if it actually has fists...)? Or are the slams just considered to be any part of the Phantom's form slamming the opponent (leaving its "hands" free to wield a weapon too)?
Thanks in advance!
(:
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I have some questions about phantoms, and I'm not sure if they've been asked already (my apologies if they have).
The first question I have is this: It says specifically in the playtest rules that Phantoms cannot wear armor - but can they wield weapons? Can a phantom choose Martial Weapon Proficiency as their first feat - then start swinging a Greatsword without a penalty (and just like an Eidolon)?
Also, if the answer to that first question is yes, then do they get iterative attacks with said weapon (although it's mentioned that Phantoms don't get iteratives with their slams - it says nothing about manufactured weapons)?
Finally, if Phantoms can & doe wield manufactured weapons, then how does that interact with their slam attacks? Can a Phantom slam with it's hands full (thus, if it wields a weapon and attacks with said weapon, can it also slam its opponents in the same turn with a full-attack action)? Are the slams counted as attacks with its "fists" (if it actually has fists...)? Or are the slams just considered to be any part of the Phantom's form slamming the opponent (leaving its "hands" free to wield a weapon too)?
Thanks in advance!
(:
1) RAW, they can wield weapons just like Eidolons
2) Yes, they get iteratives at the appropriate BAB, as does anything using a manufactured weapon (they have to mention the no-iterative thing whenever talking about natural weapons.)
3) Slam attacks are made using arms if the creature has them. If it takes a full attack wielding a 1-handed weapon, the Phantom should be able to use one of its slam attacks as a secondary attack (with the associated penalties) per natural attack rules.
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I have some questions about phantoms, and I'm not sure if they've been asked already (my apologies if they have).
The first question I have is this: It says specifically in the playtest rules that Phantoms cannot wear armor - but can they wield weapons? Can a phantom choose Martial Weapon Proficiency as their first feat - then start swinging a Greatsword without a penalty (and just like an Eidolon)?
Also, if the answer to that first question is yes, then do they get iterative attacks with said weapon (although it's mentioned that Phantoms don't get iteratives with their slams - it says nothing about manufactured weapons)?
Finally, if Phantoms can & doe wield manufactured weapons, then how does that interact with their slam attacks? Can a Phantom slam with it's hands full (thus, if it wields a weapon and attacks with said weapon, can it also slam its opponents in the same turn with a full-attack action)? Are the slams counted as attacks with its "fists" (if it actually has fists...)? Or are the slams just considered to be any part of the Phantom's form slamming the opponent (leaving its "hands" free to wield a weapon too)?
Thanks in advance!
(:
1) RAW, they can wield weapons just like Eidolons
2) Yes, they get iteratives at the appropriate BAB, as does anything using a manufactured weapon (they have to mention the no-iterative thing whenever talking about natural weapons.)
3) Slam attacks are made using arms if the creature has them. If it takes a full attack wielding a 1-handed weapon, the Phantom should be able to use one of its slam attacks as a secondary attack (with the associated penalties) per natural attack rules.
Cool. Thanks for the clarifications there Lukas. That's pretty much what I was expecting, but I wanted to be sure before I started trying to playtest the class.
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I had a chance to look and compare somewhat the other occult play test classes and thought why didn't the spiritualist have its own form of Burn?
Surely it could be used to augment the abilities of the phantom manifest in any of its three forms. However that may be impelemented it could certainly boost all aspects of the class and certainly address the duration issues that a lot of us are seeing with the class abilities.
Today I was able to have the phantom peek into multiple locked chests, identity the contents and aid in by passing the locking mechanisms. then later, while an Npc In an encounter was firing down at the group of us from a tower, the phantom slimed its way up, lurched into the room with the unaware crossbowmen and slammed the poor fellow into mush...this repeated three times. Half movement didn't seem to do much to slow down the phantom once it lurched through the wall...it just climbed the steps after wards. Due to the low damage output for the phantom I don't see is stately being as affective as the levels start to rise. Maybe the phantom's slam damage could scale at a slightly slower monks unarmed attack rate.
...actually I enjoyed how that encounter played out.
Is there a chance that the spiritualist could have a similiar power to the kinectsist? Except it being an energized touch Attack that scales with its class level? It could be some untyped energy Attack that can affect incorporeal and corporeal targets as well as be channeled through the phantom. Stretching further, it could comparatively be similar to the dread necromancer from that other game. (Coughs)
More later.
The Spiritualist is interesting in that, as far as I can tell, only one class feature (spellcasting) is keyed off any ability score. And as a 6th level caster, offensive casting is a losing proposition as you level due to the reduced scaling of spell levels.
Point being, barring a desire to cast offensive spells or a buffer in case of ability drain, is there any reason to keep Wisdom above the minimum needed for spellcasting?
It seems to me your ability points would be better put to use in:
-Dex for AC, initiative, and to bolster your bad save, or
-Con, as a HP battery for your Phantom
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I would just like to point out and agree with some other posters that the Anger Phantom is a trap. It's DPR is hilariously low compared to Hatred, except at the lowest levels, and the fact its other abilities are 1/day or the rounds/day Aura makes it almost always the most subpar choice (with the exception of Zeal, which doesn't really seem to do much at all, period.)
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Short answer re: Augment summon and Phantom - No
Flavored answer: see below
It's funny...they mention the Phantom manifests itself over and over again, never does it say the Spiritualist summons it as the ability or spell. The question re: augment summoning and Phantoms has come up and so far from what I've read it's all be no it doesn't work.
While the phantom may be perceived it's being summoned or conjured, it doesn't say anywhere or clearly enough that it is in fact being summoned or conjured. Flavor text suggests that the spiritualist is almost allowing the phantom to appear.
Manifesting a phantom into existence currently isn't a spell or spell like affect. In fact there's no label for it so I can only assume it's (Su) along with the majority of all the other Spiritualist's class abilities.
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I was actually think that's a great point re: the sicked phantom. Perhaps the phantom can have the same or similar immunity as an undead thing but any debilitating effects, affecting the spiritualist also affects the phantom.
Is the Phantom the only companion that doesn't get Evasion?
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Q:A more min/max inclined friend informed me that I can get Augment summoning and have it apply to the phantom. I beg to differ. Who's right?
The Phantom is like the Eidolon in that it is summoned via a Su ability, not a spell-like. Augment Summoning only works on an Eidolon if you summon it via the spell Summon Eidolon. This is also the case for Phantoms, except there is no such spell for them yet.
The Phantom is like the Eidolon in that it is summoned via a Su ability, not a spell-like. Augment Summoning only works on an Eidolon if you summon it via the spell Summon Eidolon. This is also the case for Phantoms, except there is no such spell for them yet.
Q:A more min/max inclined friend informed me that I can get Augment summoning and have it apply to the phantom. I beg to differ. Who's right?
Yep. Exactly. From the first line of augment summoning: "Each creature you conjure with any summon spell..." Also see above for the developers same concensus.
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To go with the theme of the Spiritualist, some of the mechanics proposed, and expanding upon them...it would be great to expand the spell list.
Spells of note:
0th
- Disrupt Undead
-- the class eventually gains Detect Undead as a SLA, this would certainly go w/the theme of being able to have some other form of dealing with them once detected, also currently the spiritualist has no knacks that do any damage (i.e. acid orb, ray of frost, jolt, etc)
- Ghost sound
-- We have a phantom both incorporeal and ectoplasmic that can phase through walls and even leaves a slimy residue. The RP elements from this are vast.
- Touch of Fatigue
-- again, there's a deliver touch attack mechanic w/the phantom but currently limited touch attack based spells...and with the spells known mechanic, it is unlikely a spiritualist will learn inflict wound spells over protection spells to help support the phantom itself. In fact I don't really see many touch attack based spells at all. While the addition of this will not be game breaking, it's nice to have more tools at lower level.
1st
- Abundant Ammunition
-- the investment of Dex partly due to only light armor and no shield prof. seems to be encouraging more spiritualists to take up the ranged combat option. This spell would obviously aid in that dept.
- Chill Touch
-- likely mentioned earlier. (noticed I didn't say shocking grasp)
2nd
- All the spells that boost an ability stat by +4 (bull's str, etc)
-- mainly to help support the phantom and going with the theme of unlocking, harnessing the powers of life & death, thought, and nightmare, shadow and pursuit.
That's all for now.
I'd like to add my support to making the Spiritualist a touch spell focused class. I played one in Jade Regent yesterday and found that there just... weren't any spells interesting enough to take. I basically played her as a Fighter with a longspear. It was dull.
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My feedback so far (not much new, but I want to add my voice to the chorus):
- The Phantoms need more to do with their scaling Charisma or it becomes a largely pointless investment of resources (compared to the Eidolon's scaling Str).
- Intimidate should be a class skill for all Phantoms (replacing Bluff, if necessary).
- Phantoms should get Evasion like all other companions, at least in Ectoplasmic form.
- Consider giving all Phantoms Weapon Finesse as a baseline feat and giving Hatred something else as its bonus feat. As it stands, it's essentially a feat tax for Phantoms other than Hatred or Anger.
- The Spiritualist needs more offensive touch spells on its list if the Deliver Touch Spells feature is meant to serve any meaningful purpose.
- The Spiritualist needs more combat buffs, especially Cat's Grace, Bull's Strength and Bear's Endurance.
- Touch of Fatigue, Bless, Ill Omen, Ray of Enfeeblement, Chill Touch, Feeblemind, Enervation all seem like good and appropriate additions to the spell list.
- Consider having each Phantom add specific spells known or spells to the list for each level. (e.g. Anger adds Rage, etc.)
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In general, it seems like some work needs to be done to make the casting side of the class more effective since it's not as melee focused as the summoner.
My feedback so far (not much new, but I want to add my voice to the chorus):
- The Phantoms need more to do with their scaling Charisma or it becomes a largely pointless investment of resources (compared to the Eidolon's scaling Str).
- Intimidate should be a class skill for all Phantoms (replacing Bluff, if necessary).
- Phantoms should get Evasion like all other companions, at least in Ectoplasmic form.
- Consider giving all Phantoms Weapon Finesse as a baseline feat and giving Hatred something else as its bonus feat. As it stands, it's essentially a feat tax for Phantoms other than Hatred or Anger.
- The Spiritualist needs more offensive touch spells on its list if the Deliver Touch Spells feature is meant to serve any meaningful purpose.
- The Spiritualist needs more combat buffs, especially Cat's Grace, Bull's Strength and Bear's Endurance.
- Touch of Fatigue, Bless, Ill Omen, Ray of Enfeeblement, Chill Touch, Feeblemind, Enervation all seem like good and appropriate additions to the spell list.
- Consider having each Phantom add specific spells known or spells to the list for each level. (e.g. Anger adds Rage, etc.)
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In general, it seems like some work needs to be done to make the casting side of the class more effective since it's not as melee focused as the summoner.
I think I can agree with nearly all of these points (though giving everyone weapon finesse would make Anger even more weak relative to other spirits).
I have sort of been thinking of this class as more martial focused, though. Its bonded manifestation class feature is really just mostly useful for melee combat and scythes and kukris are both solid weapons. I would like to see the spirit give the Spiritualist combat buffs when bonded or nearby (like a small scaling morale bonuses to strength or dexterity or even a mental stat if a certain spirit wanted to fit into a "pure caster" design space).
Alternately (or maybe additionally), I actually think it would be cool if the spirit were somehow the caster. Like: maybe this class could have something similar to the familiar spell metamagic feat. Like: the spirit could cast a spell in place of the Spiritualist using a spell slot one or two levels higher with the spirit's charisma being used for saves. If you are worried too much about the action economy of spells then perhaps the spirit and the spiritualist could have the additional limitation that they can't cast spells in the same combat round.
Any of that sound good to anyone besides me?
I think I can agree with nearly all of these points (though giving everyone weapon finesse would make Anger even more weak relative to other spirits).
I have sort of been thinking of this class as more martial focused, though. Its bonded manifestation class feature is really just mostly useful for melee combat and scythes and kukris are both solid weapons. I would like to see the spirit give the Spiritualist combat buffs when bonded or nearby (like a small scaling morale bonuses to strength or dexterity or even a mental stat if a certain spirit wanted to fit into a "pure caster" design space).
That's a good point. I initially made my Spiritualist melee-focused, but realized after my first playtest that he won't be able to keep up with the class in its current state. He needs some kind of ability to buff up, whether its through spells or the bonded manifestation.
I do like that Bonded Manifestation seems to be a more balanced take on the Synthesist Summoner. Right now, it's not very effective. A standard action for rounds/lvl of Shield is worse than casting Shield for min/lvl (although a case could be made for utility in that it doesn't provoke or require a concentration check).
EDIT: I'd like to see this changed to a Swift action.
I'd definitely like to see the nature of the Phantoms extend to this ability, with each type of Phantom granting something different through Bonded Manifestation.
In general, I think the nature of the Phantom should have a greater effect on the Spiritualist himself when partially manifested or within his consciousness. Right now, it's pretty much just a couple of Skill Foci.
Alternately (or maybe additionally), I actually think it would be cool if the spirit were somehow the caster. Like: maybe this class could have something similar to the familiar spell metamagic feat. Like: the spirit could cast a spell in place of the Spiritualist using a spell slot one or two levels higher with the spirit's charisma being used for saves. If you are worried too much about the action economy of spells then perhaps the spirit and the spiritualist could have the additional limitation that they can't cast spells in the same combat round.
Any of that sound good to anyone besides me?
I think it would be interesting if the Spiritualist had to enter a full-round trance for the Phantom to cast spells in his place. But I'm not sure what effect that would have beyond the current abilities to deliver touch spells and take on Personal level spells.
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I really wish the class was Charisma-based. I think that seems more appropriate, but I realize it intersects too closely with the Summoner.
In general, I think the nature of the Phantom should have a greater effect on the Spiritualist himself when partially manifested or within his consciousness. Right now, it's pretty much just a couple of Skill Foci.
I agree entirely and I think it is a great place to put class abilities that push any given spiritualist towards being a dedicated caster/buffing class or a class that helps out in combat by fighting with his spirit.
I think it would be interesting if the Spiritualist had to enter a full-round trance for the Phantom to cast spells in his place. But I'm not sure what effect that would have beyond the current abilities to deliver touch spells and take on Personal level spells.
Well, that is still certainly an improvement on the current touch spell paradigm that would not go towards breaking action economy somehow (which I recognize exists in my suggestion and to a less extent in the familiar spell feat). I think your rule would end up being an incredibly handy way to circumvent obstacles to spellcasting (like the spirit could fly over to where your allies are grouped and then act as the source of the haste spell or phase through a ceiling from the floor above to get a drop on some bad guys). I am not sure if that extra versatility is a cure-all for this class's woes but it is certainly neat and a viable signature ability.
Is there any reason for why the sense sharing duration seems so short? Is it to balance something or am I underestimating it?
This is specifically talking about eidolons and similar kinds of creatures (maybe the shadowdancer's shadow, maybe not...still musing on that one). Creatures summoned by spells and magic items are not an issue.I think this deserves a clarification. "if it is manifested
when such a creature is summoned, it immediately retreats
into its spiritualist’s consciousness" says to that any summon spell chases the Phantom away. When it comes to creatures that have already been summoned when the Spiritualist is trying to manifest the Phantom, only the Eidolon is named. Probably it applies to any summoned critter.Note that the "Call Spirit" spell is conjuration, but the subschool is "Calling", which I don't recall having seen before. So even though this is a kind of summoning, it shouldn't chase your Phantom away.
This should probably be made very clear in the finished rules so by the book folks know it is intended to not remove the summon spells from being used while the phantom is out.
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I went ahead and laid out the melee combat capabilities of a typical Phantom (not Anger or Hatred) for the first 11 levels, assuming a significant dedication and investment of the Spiritualist's resources. This means putting all ability increases into Dexterity, taking Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus with the Phantom's first two feats and spending 60 - 80% of the PC's WBL on upgrades for the Phantom.
The Phantom could take Piranha Strike at 6th to up damage, but his Attack bonus isn't really high enough to support it.
Could also spend some more gold on things like the Deliquescent Gloves, but I wanted to keep this as straightforward as possible.
(This assumes a target AC of CR + 2, as laid out in the Monster Creation table)
1: +3/3 (1d6+1), 45% to hit, ~4.3DPR (Weapon Finesse)
2: +4/4 (1d6+1), 40% to hit, ~3.8DPR (Weapon Finesse)
3: +7/7 (1d6+1), 50% to hit, ~4.7DPR (Weapon Finesse, Weapon 4: Focus, Belt of Dex +2, ~60% WBL)
4: +8/8/8 (1d6+3), 50% to hit, ~10.2DPR (Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Belt of Dex +2, Haste, Agile AoMF, ~70% WBL)
5: +11/11/11 (1d6+5), 60% to hit, ~16.0DPR (Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Belt of Dex +2, Haste, Agile AoMF, ~82% WBL)
6: +13/13/13 (1d6+5), 65% to hit, ~17.4DPR (Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Belt of Dex +4, Haste, Agile AoMF, Pale Green, ~73% WBL)
7: +17/17/17 (1d6+6), 75% to hit, ~22.4DPR (Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Belt of Dex +4, Haste, +1 Agile AoMF, Pale Green, Heroism, ~86% WBL)
8: +18/18/18 (1d6+6), 75% to hit, ~22.4DPR (Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Belt of Dex +4, Haste, +1 Agile AoMF, Pale Green, Heroism, ~63% WBL)
9: +20/20/20 (1d6+7), 80% to hit, ~26.5DPR (Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Belt of Dex +6, Haste, +1 Agile AoMF, Pale Green, Heroism, ~80% WBL)
10: +21/21/21 (1d6+8), 75% to hit, ~27.2DPR (Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Belt of Dex +6, Haste, +1 Agile AoMF, Pale Green, Heroism, ~62% WBL)
11: +22/22/22 (1d6+8), 75% to hit, ~27.2DPR (Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Belt of Dex +6, Haste, +1 Agile AoMF, Pale Green, Heroism, ~50% WBL)
Realistically, the damage numbers are artificially inflated, as this doesn't take DR into account, which will be a pretty significant issue for the Phantom (can't handle Slashing, Piercing, Cold Iron, Silver, Adamantine, Hardness, or Alignment).
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Second analysis: offensive casting
Here are the spells the Spiritualist has by level that can be used to directly attack creatures:
1st: Cause Fear (Will), Cure/Inflict Light Wounds (Will), Doom (Will)
2nd: Cure/Inflict Moderate Wounds (Will), Pilfering Hand (No save), Slow (Will), Spiritual Weapon (No save)
3rd: Bestow Curse (Will), Blindness/Deafness (Fort), Cure/Inflict Serious (Will)
4th: Aura of Doom (Will), Black Tentacles (No save), Crushing Despair (Will), Cure/Inflict Critical Wounds (Will), Debilitating Portent (Will), Phantasmal Killer (Will, Fort), Shadow Conjuration (Will, ???), Terrible Remorse (Will)
5th: Breath of Life/Slay Living (Will), Dismissal (Will), Magic Jar (Will), Major Curse (Will), Plane Shift (Will), Shadow Evocation (Will, ???), Telekinesis (No save), Waves of Fatigue (No save)
6th: Banishment (Will), Circle of Death (Fort), Eyebite (Fort), Harm/Heal (Will), Undeath to Death (Will)
Other than Shadow Conjuration and Shadow Evocation, the Spiritualist has no spells that target Reflex saves (and those can be ameliorated with Will saves).
Four spells target Fortitude: Blindness/Deafness, Phantasmal Killer, Circle of Death, and Eyebite, and Phantasmal Killer requires a Will save first.
Since we have little choice in which Save we're targeting, we'll have to assume worst case scenario, which is that we're targeting a creature's good save (from the Monster creation table).
We'll assume a starting Wisdom of 19 since we're focused on casting, with a bump and +2 headband at L4, +4 at L6, an inconsequential bump at 8, and +6 headband at L9.
L1 vs. CR3: Good Save +6 vs. DC 15, 60% to Make save
L2 vs. CR4: Good Save +7 vs. DC 15, 65% to Make save
L3 vs. CR5: Good Save +8 vs. DC 15, 70% to Make save
L4 vs. CR6: Good Save +9 vs. DC 17, 65% to Make save
L5 vs. CR7: Good Save +10 vs. DC 17, 70% to Make save
L6 vs. CR8: Good Save +11 vs. DC 19, 65% to Make save
L7 vs. CR9: Good Save +12 vs. DC 20, 65% to Make save
L8 vs. CR10: Good Save +13 vs. DC 21, 65% to Make save
L9 vs. CR11: Good Save +14 vs. DC 22, 65% to Make save
L10 vs. CR12: Good Save +15 vs. DC 23, 65% to Make save
L11 vs. CR13: Good Save +16 vs. DC 23, 70% to Make save
We can bump that up with Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus to drop those as low as 50% (but usually 55 - 60%) on one or more schools (likely focusing on Necromancy).
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With a 35% - 50% chance of success on spells landing, offensive casting doesn't seem like a good place to focus.
Granted, this was a worst case scenario. Against Bad saves, we'd fare much better. But again, we can't really tailor our attacks to the enemies' saves, so we're relying on chance there.