|
I'm sorry if this has already been asked, but is it possible to combine implements? For example, a quarterstaff could be a valid implement for Evocation and Transmutation. If you invest focus into the quarterstaff and have both staff and weapon implements learned, would you be able to gain both the Intense Focus and Legacy Weapon resonant powers? Would you be able to spend invested points to power focus powers of either evocation or transmutation?
If the staff was made out of bone could you then also use it as a necromancy implement as well?
...and now for something completely different.
Having actually invested the time and energy into making and playtesting an Occultist, I'd like to ask for clarification on a ruling that actually came up in play. In one of the scenarios I tested the Occultist, the GM ruled that the transmutation base power, psychic weapon, did not stack with the enhancement bonus to hit of a masterwork weapon. The entry does specifically state that it stacks with any other enhancement bonus and I felt that it should be used as written, but the concensus was that it was just like enchanting a masterwork weapon to a +1 weapon; the enhancement bonuses do not stack. If a designer could weigh in on this, it would be most appreciated.
...and now for something completely different.
Having actually invested the time and energy into making and playtesting an Occultist, I'd like to ask for clarification on a ruling that actually came up in play. In one of the scenarios I tested the Occultist, the GM ruled that the transmutation base power, psychic weapon, did not stack with the enhancement bonus to hit of a masterwork weapon. The entry does specifically state that it stacks with any other enhancement bonus and I felt that it should be used as written, but the concensus was that it was just like enchanting a masterwork weapon to a +1 weapon; the enhancement bonuses do not stack. If a designer could weigh in on this, it would be most appreciated.
I know there was the same argument about the magus arcane pool (that has almost identical wording) and I never remember anything conclusive about that either...
...and now for something completely different.
Having actually invested the time and energy into making and playtesting an Occultist, I'd like to ask for clarification on a ruling that actually came up in play. In one of the scenarios I tested the Occultist, the GM ruled that the transmutation base power, psychic weapon, did not stack with the enhancement bonus to hit of a masterwork weapon. The entry does specifically state that it stacks with any other enhancement bonus and I felt that it should be used as written, but the concensus was that it was just like enchanting a masterwork weapon to a +1 weapon; the enhancement bonuses do not stack. If a designer could weigh in on this, it would be most appreciated.
The entire point of that passage is to allow the enhancement bonus to stack with other enhancement bonuses. I don't see why the "partial" enhancement bonus of a masterwork weapon would be any different.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
The more I read this thread the more confused I am.
I'd really like the "one item as three implements at once" question posed by AlanDG2 upthread answered. I'd also like clarification on the +1 ability or enhancement question.
I'm uninterested in builds with items. I'm not assuming any WBL - I just want to understand how the class works.
The Occultist still feels really cool, I'm also not interested in roles or comparing it to bards or magus or investigators or 9th level casting etc. I merely want to understand how to make one at 1st level, and run it.
Currently it feels way too complicated to make let alone run. As far as design goes, that is a terrible thing for me. I get that it seems perfectly clear to other posters. But really, I get all other classes, so this is either a personal difficulty or the class is unclear.
I'm starting a play-by-post playtest of one right now, and honestly I don't find it that overly complicated (not like the medium, which is INSANELY complicated). My 1st-level Occultist has 3 focus items right now, 2 of them are Transmutation (a weapon and a belt) and one is Evocation (a wand). I plan to keep points invested in the weapon and the belt as of now, until I get a bigger pool of points, such that she has Agile on her rapier and a +2 Dexterity enhancement on her belt. With no points invested in her wand, she only uses it as a focus for Evocation spells, and it doesn't give her any other special abilities.
I actually really like that the spells you cast are dependent on the schools you choose, and plan to focus mostly on Transmutations with her, buffing her up to a crazy awesome melee fighter.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The entire point of that passage is to allow the enhancement bonus to stack with other enhancement bonuses. I don't see why the "partial" enhancement bonus of a masterwork weapon would be any different....and now for something completely different.
Having actually invested the time and energy into making and playtesting an Occultist, I'd like to ask for clarification on a ruling that actually came up in play. In one of the scenarios I tested the Occultist, the GM ruled that the transmutation base power, psychic weapon, did not stack with the enhancement bonus to hit of a masterwork weapon. The entry does specifically state that it stacks with any other enhancement bonus and I felt that it should be used as written, but the concensus was that it was just like enchanting a masterwork weapon to a +1 weapon; the enhancement bonuses do not stack. If a designer could weigh in on this, it would be most appreciated.
I would have also ruled in favor of the GM here... if giving a weapon a +1 bonus by enchanting it doesn't increase the attack bonus of a masterwork weapon (which it doesn't, only the damage), neither should the Psychic Weapon's bonus.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
I didn't notice the +2 requiring level 5 (any chance I can get a link to that post?), I'll have to edit my PFS character with that one.
As for the three implements, two of them are of the same group (Transmutation) and I didn't see any restriction on having more than one implement from a group... you learn two implement groups at first level, and you can only choose one implement from each group to grant you spells from that school, but from my reading, there doesn't seem to be a restriction on putting mental focus into multiple implements from the same group. Am I missing something there?
Resonant powers: can we have multiple ones active, assuming we have multiple implements (I would definitly take transmutation (belt) and (weapon))?
"General mental focus stored inside body" is fairly confusing to me. How does it differentiate from regular mental focus? How is it generated?
Note: Considering how valuable mental focus is, I would LOVE a method through which you can sacrifice spell slots to regain mental focus, kinda like the arcanist's pool.You can have multiple resonant powers, just not from the same implement.
When you place your mental focus, you can choose to either keep it in you or store it in your implements. In other words, your mental focus is either in you or in your implements. Your choice.
As for swapping spells back into focus, that is something I will give some thought to, but I want to see how the class plays out a bit first.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
I would have also ruled in favor of the GM here... if giving a weapon a +1 bonus by enchanting it doesn't increase the attack bonus of a masterwork weapon (which it doesn't, only the damage), neither should the Psychic Weapon's bonus.The entire point of that passage is to allow the enhancement bonus to stack with other enhancement bonuses. I don't see why the "partial" enhancement bonus of a masterwork weapon would be any different....and now for something completely different.
Having actually invested the time and energy into making and playtesting an Occultist, I'd like to ask for clarification on a ruling that actually came up in play. In one of the scenarios I tested the Occultist, the GM ruled that the transmutation base power, psychic weapon, did not stack with the enhancement bonus to hit of a masterwork weapon. The entry does specifically state that it stacks with any other enhancement bonus and I felt that it should be used as written, but the concensus was that it was just like enchanting a masterwork weapon to a +1 weapon; the enhancement bonuses do not stack. If a designer could weigh in on this, it would be most appreciated.
The normal +1 bonus doesn't stack with the masterwork enhancement because enhancement bonuses normally do not stack. The psychic weapon ability specifically overrides that general rule.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
The normal +1 bonus doesn't stack with the masterwork enhancement because enhancement bonuses normally do not stack. The psychic weapon ability specifically overrides that general rule.I would have also ruled in favor of the GM here... if giving a weapon a +1 bonus by enchanting it doesn't increase the attack bonus of a masterwork weapon (which it doesn't, only the damage), neither should the Psychic Weapon's bonus.The entire point of that passage is to allow the enhancement bonus to stack with other enhancement bonuses. I don't see why the "partial" enhancement bonus of a masterwork weapon would be any different....and now for something completely different.
Having actually invested the time and energy into making and playtesting an Occultist, I'd like to ask for clarification on a ruling that actually came up in play. In one of the scenarios I tested the Occultist, the GM ruled that the transmutation base power, psychic weapon, did not stack with the enhancement bonus to hit of a masterwork weapon. The entry does specifically state that it stacks with any other enhancement bonus and I felt that it should be used as written, but the concensus was that it was just like enchanting a masterwork weapon to a +1 weapon; the enhancement bonuses do not stack. If a designer could weigh in on this, it would be most appreciated.
Hmm... yeah the way it's worded, it would stack. Doesn't matter once you get the weapon past MW into having its own enhancement bonus, but that's an interesting way of getting an extra +1 to hit.
As for the three implements, two of them are of the same group (Transmutation) and I didn't see any restriction on having more than one implement from a group... you learn two implement groups at first level, and you can only choose one implement from each group to grant you spells from that school, but from my reading, there doesn't seem to be a restriction on putting mental focus into multiple implements from the same group. Am I missing something there?
It seems to me that the intention is that you would need to select the Implement group more then once in order to select multiple items within the same group, but you're right, the text does not clearly state you can't. It does state that you select "an" item from that list, which I believe indicates a single item (as opposed to "any").
Other than the missing spells/abilities (No summoning spells/no Vest power) I think that's one of the better catch's I have seen, good job.
If that is in fact the case. It Seem's like they should add a line stating "You may invest focus in one Implement from each of you're chosen groups. If you have selected a group more then once, you may invest focus into one additional Implement for each additional selection." I'm sure there is a less wordy way of stating that, but you catch my drift.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
As for the three implements, two of them are of the same group (Transmutation) and I didn't see any restriction on having more than one implement from a group... you learn two implement groups at first level, and you can only choose one implement from each group to grant you spells from that school, but from my reading, there doesn't seem to be a restriction on putting mental focus into multiple implements from the same group. Am I missing something there?
It seems to me that the intention is that you would need to select the Implement group more then once in order to select multiple items within the same group, but you're right, the text does not clearly state you can't. It does state that you select "an" item from that list, which I believe indicates a single item (as opposed to "any").
Other than the missing spells/abilities (No summoning spells/no Vest power) I think that's one of the better catch's I have seen, good job.
If that is in fact the case. It Seem's like they should add a line stating "You may invest focus in one Implement from each of you're chosen groups. If you have selected a group more then once, you may invest focus into one additional Implement for each additional selection." I'm sure there is a less wordy way of stating that, but you catch my drift.
See I'm pretty sure having multiple implements of a type is actually intended, based on that post from Jason that I linked above. Note that I am only getting one set of spells from the Transmutation implement.... if I invest another implement "known" into Transmutation, I would gain more spells known, according to the text, but I don't see anything precluding me from having multiple implements with focus in them, and only one "active" one that is granting me spells known.
I'll wait for him to weigh in before I make changes to my PFS character though... the multiple transmutation implements are powerful, but not broken in my opinion. I'll make sure to post an update once we see how my new character does in combat (the first combat in the Confirmation JUST started, exciting!)
...and now for something completely different.
Having actually invested the time and energy into making and playtesting an Occultist, I'd like to ask for clarification on a ruling that actually came up in play. In one of the scenarios I tested the Occultist, the GM ruled that the transmutation base power, psychic weapon, did not stack with the enhancement bonus to hit of a masterwork weapon. The entry does specifically state that it stacks with any other enhancement bonus and I felt that it should be used as written, but the concensus was that it was just like enchanting a masterwork weapon to a +1 weapon; the enhancement bonuses do not stack. If a designer could weigh in on this, it would be most appreciated.
Masterwork isn't an enhancement bonus. It's a to-hit bonus that gets absorbed into enhancement once enhancement is added. If you enchanted a MW weapon with the spell Magic Weapon it wouldn't gain a +2 to hit.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Masterwork isn't an enhancement bonus. It's a to-hit bonus that gets absorbed into enhancement once enhancement is added. If you enchanted a MW weapon with the spell Magic Weapon it wouldn't gain a +2 to hit....and now for something completely different.
Having actually invested the time and energy into making and playtesting an Occultist, I'd like to ask for clarification on a ruling that actually came up in play. In one of the scenarios I tested the Occultist, the GM ruled that the transmutation base power, psychic weapon, did not stack with the enhancement bonus to hit of a masterwork weapon. The entry does specifically state that it stacks with any other enhancement bonus and I felt that it should be used as written, but the concensus was that it was just like enchanting a masterwork weapon to a +1 weapon; the enhancement bonuses do not stack. If a designer could weigh in on this, it would be most appreciated.
Actually, if you look at the PRD, it DOES say it's an Enhancement bonus.
Masterwork Weapons
A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls.
I was wondering why the conjure servant power is not as good as the summoners ability and he has a better spell selection
I will note that is is also worse than the similar Battle Companion abilities of the Warpriest (who ALSO has a better spell selection than the Occultist).
Honestly, I think it is only so weak to keep it equal to the other weak abilities granted for free by the other implements. However, the ability is completely amazing at level 1. It is just unfortunate that the resonant powers of the conjuration group are all so situational as to be nearly worthless (especially if someone built a character specializing in survival and the occultist did not).
|
As for the three implements, two of them are of the same group (Transmutation) and I didn't see any restriction on having more than one implement from a group... you learn two implement groups at first level, and you can only choose one implement from each group to grant you spells from that school, but from my reading, there doesn't seem to be a restriction on putting mental focus into multiple implements from the same group. Am I missing something there?
"Each implement group is represented by a small list of objects. Each day, the occultist selects an item from that list to be his implement for the day." That's from the top of the left column on page 42 in the playtest document.
I would interpret that as meaning if you've chosen Transmutation and Evocation then you get ONE implement from Transmutation and ONE from Evocation that you can empower for the day, but you can own multiple items that are capable of functioning as implements.
|
|
As for the three implements, two of them are of the same group (Transmutation) and I didn't see any restriction on having more than one implement from a group... you learn two implement groups at first level, and you can only choose one implement from each group to grant you spells from that school, but from my reading, there doesn't seem to be a restriction on putting mental focus into multiple implements from the same group. Am I missing something there?"Each implement group is represented by a small list of objects. Each day, the occultist selects an item from that list to be his implement for the day." That's from the top of the left column on page 42 in the playtest document.
I would interpret that as meaning if you've chosen Transmutation and Evocation then you get ONE implement from Transmutation and ONE from Evocation that you can empower for the day, but you can own multiple items that are capable of functioning as implements.
You need to keep reading, immediately after your quoted text is the exception:
Each implement group is represented by a small list of
objects. Each day, the occultist selects an item from that list
to be his implement for the day. The occultist needs only
one such item to cast a spell of the corresponding school,
unless he selected that implement group multiple times, in
which case he needs one item for each set of spells gained
from that group.
Each implement group is represented by a small list of objects. Each day, the occultist selects an item from that list to be his implement for the day. The occultist needs only one such item to cast a spell of the corresponding school, unless he selected that implement group multiple times, in which case he needs one item for each set of spells gained from that group.
Then let's say that a 1st-level occultist selected the evocation implement group twice, so as to learn both burning hands and shocking grasp. Does that mean he would need one rod, wand, or staff to cast his burning hands and yet another rod, wand or staff to cast his shocking grasp?
If so...ugh.
|
|
This is a very interesting class, but even after reading it twice, it seems hard for me to gauge its power level. Transmutation seems to be the obvious choice for undecided.
Making resonant powers available throughout the day (and in turn reducing the total amount of mental focus) would be a welcome change.
The spell list, is at this point pretty small and some more exotic additions would be welcome.
EDIT: Also, I would like the ability to kill people with a spoon^^
|
|
Yeah, it looks like you need an implement for each implement group selection you make. If you select evocation twice, you would need two wands/staves/rods to cast each spell. On the plus side, it would allow you to have both the lightbringer and intense focus resonant powers.
On the minus, you have to juggle a lot more implements. It seems like quick draw may be mandatory for this class.
Either way, it looks like the answer to my previous question was no, you can't use the same item as an implement for multiple schools at once.
Then let's say that a 1st-level occultist selected the evocation implement group twice, so as to learn both burning hands and shocking grasp. Does that mean he would need one rod, wand, or staff to cast his burning hands and yet another rod, wand or staff to cast his shocking grasp?
If so...ugh.
To be fair, the rules only require you to "present the implement to the target or towards the area of effect" and "have the corresponding implement in his possession". You don't have to be holding it- otherwise it would be impossible to use worn implements. You can easily just tie all of your implements to your arm or hang them from straps on your clothes or something.
|
From my larger review at http://www.5mwd.com/archives/2204
The psychic magic gish. The occultist a limited spellcaster that can cast up to 6th-level spells, wear medium armour, and use martial weapons. But it learns spells unlike other spellcasters.
At first glance the concept for this class seems odd. The occultist uses items that are magical but not actually magic items, which are used to gains spells of a certain school. They’re specialists who gain more schools at higher levels. The idea strikes me as drawing from the idea of psychic/occult detectives. They’re most akin to spellcasters like Carnacki, the Ghost-Finder, Hellboy, John Constantine, the Winchesters, or even Harry Dresden. Adventuring types who kinda sorta know spells but rely on relics and “magical trinkets”. The occultist doesn’t just cast burning hands but breaks out their blasting rod, and doesn’t overtly cast mage armour but presents the fingerbone of St. Gerome to ward off harm. I rather like the idea but since the class comes alive when the relics are emphasised, it really needs a sidebar of example items.
I like that the class can also do fun things like reading reading and creating magic circles. Small abilities that really hammer home the tone of the class. I really wish the mesmerist and medium had flavourful little powers like that.
Honestly, the armour and weapons of the class actually detract from the flavour for me. It feels like the need to fill the “gish” slot on the psychic magic Bingo card, and means the occultist loses some extra occultisty flavour. I don’t see scale mail and greatswords being overly necessary. As the psychic version of the investigator/rogue, they should be limited to light armours.
Jester David - the psychic rogue is just one way to play it though.
You could equally build it to be a dwarven soldier who inscribes his armor with the runes of the dwarvish pantheon and the gladdringgar of his ancestors.
Upon his axe - Angradd, the Forge Fire; upon his helm - Bolka, the Golden Gift, etc.
Plus, take it from Dresden--magic is great, but sometimes there's just no substitute for your friends Smith & Wesson.
|
|
Jester David - the psychic rogue is just one way to play it though.
You could equally build it to be a dwarven soldier who inscribes his armor with the runes of the dwarvish pantheon and the gladdringgar of his ancestors.
Upon his axe - Angradd, the Forge Fire; upon his helm - Bolka, the Golden Gift, etc.
I think there's room for an archetype like that, but they're making it the base class. All occultists rock medium armour and heavy weaponry. As you only need a 16 Int by level 17 they're easily a Str/Dex primary class. They're the psychic magic magus.
Plus, take it from Dresden--magic is great, but sometimes there's just no substitute for your friends Smith & Wesson.
Are you Implying that I need to cram both Amateur Investigator and Amateur Gunslinger into my build? Because if so I like the way you think.
Also... I make Dresden's new "Piece"... and it is Sweet.
|
Lv1 Human Occultist
Stats:
Stg:8
Dex:14+2=16 (Human)
Con:14
Int:15
Wis:12
Cha:12
Feats:
Weapon Finesse
Toughness
IMPLEMENTS +spells
Transmutation: Using a Swordcane as the implement getting Agile on it every day
0lv: Mage Hand
1lv: feather fall
Divination: using glasses to get low light vision,
0lv: Detect MAgic
1lv: detect secret doors
focus Power:
Sudden speed
lol well this is just a general view of my characters build, but i am loving the occultist lol. i hope we get more focus powers/ base powers in the final but for now it seems pretty good, got the skills to pay the bills, he's not a focused caster but an help out greatly in combat, and super helpful out of ombat at least in my opinion ^^ cant wait to see what comes next
|
|
Ray of Frost really needs to be be on the Evocation spell list. Ray of Frost could be a decent all day attack spell with Intense Focus, and an easy way to be relevant as a low-level blaster without spending first level spells or Focus powers.
The scaling on intense focus means it will still be useless at mid level anyway.
I created this alias for a playtest as a level 13 kitsune Occultist archer (along with a level 6 version for another playtest). Here are my refined opinions after that in-depth theorycrafting:
-I still have too little Mental Focus to play with, compared to my number of implements. I have to pick and choose between locking in resonant powers and spending MF on focus powers, while some of my implements are good for nothing but spellcasting. That's frustrating. Scaling at 1.5 x level feels about right to me.
-The martial ability is ahead of where I expected it to be, but still not quite there. Adding heroism (hopefully as a second-level spell, like a bard) to his spell list would probably be enough. And as an enchantment spell, it would force hard choices on the martial Occultist regarding implement school choice.
I think there's room for an archetype like that, but they're making it the base class. All occultists rock medium armour and heavy weaponry. As you only need a 16 Int by level 17 they're easily a Str/Dex primary class. They're the psychic magic magus.Jester David - the psychic rogue is just one way to play it though.
You could equally build it to be a dwarven soldier who inscribes his armor with the runes of the dwarvish pantheon and the gladdringgar of his ancestors.
Upon his axe - Angradd, the Forge Fire; upon his helm - Bolka, the Golden Gift, etc.
Read my points on martial builds earlier. This class ends up pretty ugly if you actually end up playing it as a gish rather than a caster. By 12 or 13, you are behind the magus and the warpriest by a fairly large margin as you slowly lose the ability to buff your accuracy and you have very few powers that directly interact with your martial attacks.
Also note that is really only the transmuters that get any kind of offensive combat buffs at all.
All occultists rock medium armour and heavy weaponry.
I think this is okay, thematically. You're an item specialist, and both armors and weapons can be implements for you. If you find a greatsword and study it for a minute, you're learning everything about it and who has touched it in the past. Why would you not know how to swing it effectively?
Hellboy was one of your examples of an occultist, and he's been known to carry a big weapon or two. :)
Another point that kind of annoys me about the Occultist is that many of the resonant and focus powers are redundant with the spell list. For instance, he can invest 2 MF into a divination implement to get darkvision... or just take the darkvision spell with a transmutation implement. He can invest 4 MF in that divination implement to get a constant see invisibility... or just pick it as his divination spell. It's the same story with haste, fly, telekinesis, and so on. Because MF is such a scarce resource, it's almost always a better idea to take the spell, which leaves him with fewer useful focus powers to choose from.
|
|
Another point that kind of annoys me about the Occultist is that many of the resonant and focus powers are redundant with the spell list. For instance, he can invest 2 MF into a divination implement to get darkvision... or just take the darkvision spell with a transmutation implement. He can invest 4 MF in that divination implement to get a constant see invisibility... or just pick it as his divination spell. It's the same story with haste, fly, telekinesis, and so on. Because MF is such a scarce resource, it's almost always a better idea to take the spell, which leaves him with fewer useful focus powers to choose from.
For the most part I agree with you, but there is a solid benefit to have the divination focus powers be always on. For example, See Invisibility only has a duration of 10 mins per level. Not bad for exploration, but you would only want to cast it if you knew you were about to encounter something invisible. There is at least three pfs scenarios that I know of that had invisible foes that did not immediately attack and reveal themselves that would be discovered with an always on see invisibility, but were not because it would have required casting the spell and there was no apparent reason to cast it.
Another point that kind of annoys me about the Occultist is that many of the resonant and focus powers are redundant with the spell list. For instance, he can invest 2 MF into a divination implement to get darkvision... or just take the darkvision spell with a transmutation implement. He can invest 4 MF in that divination implement to get a constant see invisibility... or just pick it as his divination spell. It's the same story with haste, fly, telekinesis, and so on. Because MF is such a scarce resource, it's almost always a better idea to take the spell, which leaves him with fewer useful focus powers to choose from.
The focus powers should be better than / more useful / role defining, than the spells. If the class ends up relying on spells because they are better than the class features (more useful to save the MF than spend on focus powers), why be an occultist?
Someone also brought up the lack of accuracy. That's something I noticed when I was looking at its spell list. I can't see how the Occultist can maintain a decent hit ratio without a spell to buff up it's accuracy. Either Heroism / Divine Power(Favor). For the most part, I like the spells on the spell list. I think the designer nailed the flavor of the class.
If this class may, or may not be, based on Harry Dresden - where is the "power in a pinch" that he displays? Dresden gets out of some hairy situations by digging deep into his emotions and unloading a Forzare, or surviving against crazy odds. A feature to emulate that may be interesting.
Burning MP to power weak magical attacks. I can't say I'm onboard with the expense to throw out a blast. It starts out expensive, but alright. Though it ends up lackluster. At 5th level you have say, 14 MP. It costs you 2 MP to use a 5d6 blast. 12d6 as a capstone attack? I can't imagine actually using this very much. I think this should be more akin to a Paladins Smite. Something awesome, to use in a pinch or vs. bosses and appropriately awesome.
Items mimicing enhancement bonuses. This is just a pet peeve of mine, class features mirroring enhancement bonuses. Or, as someone in the thread showed, WBL expense relief. I would prefer that the class features don't just supplement WBL expenses. It's boring to me to have another class be able to add +# as an enhancement bonus to stats as an example. I think people can do better, and come up with unique, thematically awesome powers that don't just mirror published spells/magical items.
edit - An example of what I consider an awesome ability that is unique to the class. Binding Circle. "If a living creature of the corresponding alignment steps inside it, the trap triggers
and binds the creature inside the circle." So, you can set traps for humans, drow, monstrous critters etc., and catch them in your circle. So many awesome uses for this now that circles are useful against non-planar entities. Kudos for thinking of this.
Another point that kind of annoys me about the Occultist is that many of the resonant and focus powers are redundant with the spell list. For instance, he can invest 2 MF into a divination implement to get darkvision... or just take the darkvision spell with a transmutation implement. He can invest 4 MF in that divination implement to get a constant see invisibility... or just pick it as his divination spell. It's the same story with haste, fly, telekinesis, and so on. Because MF is such a scarce resource, it's almost always a better idea to take the spell, which leaves him with fewer useful focus powers to choose from.The focus powers should be better than / more useful / role defining, than the spells. If the class ends up relying on spells because they are better than the class features (more useful to save the MF than spend on focus powers), why be an occultist?
Someone also brought up the lack of accuracy. That's something I noticed when I was looking at its spell list. I can't see how the Occultist can maintain a decent hit ratio without a spell to buff up it's accuracy. Either Heroism / Divine Power(Favor). For the most part, I like the spells on the spell list. I think the designer nailed the flavor of the class.
If you are going to rely on the spell list to buff the class then you are only going to end up with a weaker oracle who is going to get those spells earlier and have more powerful spells otherwise.
Either way, I don't like playing casters that turn themselves into fighters because the action economy ends up not being worth it. I would rather use that first round and first spell to take an enemy out of the fight or have some effect that changes the battle immediately rather than wait for all my enemies to take another action while I do nothing.
So, better Focus powers seem to be the answer then?
|
|
Either way, I don't like playing casters that turn themselves into fighters because the action economy ends up not being worth it. I would rather use that first round and first spell to take an enemy out of the fight or have some effect that changes the battle immediately rather than wait for all my enemies to take another action while I do nothing.
This is a good point, and the reason why I like warpriests, even after BABgate. Warpriests are viable as a 3/4 melee class because Fervor allows them to break action economy on self buffs.
If Occultists are able to effectively self buff from always-on resonant powers on weapon implements, then they work because they don't need to spen action economy to buff.
Either way, I don't like playing casters that turn themselves into fighters because the action economy ends up not being worth it. I would rather use that first round and first spell to take an enemy out of the fight or have some effect that changes the battle immediately rather than wait for all my enemies to take another action while I do nothing.This is a good point, and the reason why I like warpriests, even after BABgate. Warpriests are viable as a 3/4 melee class because Fervor allows them to break action economy on self buffs.
If Occultists are able to effectively self buff from always-on resonant powers on weapon implements, then they work because they don't need to spen action economy to buff.
That would certainly make them work as a gish class. And that is what they are very able to do at level 1 through 6 or 7 with a magic sword (or a belt at lower levels).
However, if the goal is a 20 level Gish class then this combat class feature needs to be in the core class abilities rather than locked behind the transmutation combat school. Even more importantly, that class feature needs to stay relevant over all 20 levels. Neither are there so I have kind of been considering this a pure caster class.
Staring at the class harder, you can MAYBE make the class work in martial combat by building around standard action attacks and gaming your divination powers, but then you would only be viable for like 4 or 5 rounds a day and that build is going to take up almost all your focus points.
The occultist in my playtest used a +2 agile sword cane and a +3 mithral armored coat (APL 9, 46k gp WBL). Under these (considerably ideal) circumstances, he hit more often than the kineticist and had the evocation implement group to back up the party with ranged energy damage as needed. That being said, there were no full BAB characters in the group. HERE.
Upon reviewing his character sheet, however, I couldn't help but feel like the number of spells known were just too few. It seemed odd that a bard (who is thematically even more of a dilettante) should know more spells.
Anybody else feel as though the number of spells known per implement group should somehow be increased? Two per implement group per level seems like too many, but one seems like too few.
Thoughts?
The occultist in my playtest used a +2 agile sword cane and a +3 mithral armored coat (APL 9, 46k gp WBL). Under these (considerably ideal) circumstances, he hit more often than the kineticist and had the evocation implement group to back up the party with ranged energy damage as needed. That being said, there were no full BAB characters in the group. HERE.
Upon reviewing his character sheet, however, I couldn't help but feel like the number of spells known were just too few. It seemed odd that a bard (who is thematically even more of a dilettante) should know more spells.
Anybody else feel as though the number of spells known per implement group should somehow be increased? Two per implement group per level seems like too many, but one seems like too few.
Thoughts?
I am not sure if I agree with you regarding spell progression, necessarily. This class's spell progression is actually full of neat little quirks, imo. Though the class knows fewer low level spells, by level 7, you are going to have far more of your higher level spells known (when you have 4 spells known to the bard's 2). Then at level 10, you will have 5 4th level spells to the bard's 2. The difference kind of careens from there.
Maybe that is why the melee combat falls off so hard? Because the class gets so much better at spell casting versatility?
I am not sure if I would buy that balance argument, though. I feel like the bard's spell list is pretty strong (especially with all those buffs) and the occultist spell selection is a little weird and uneven.