I think the occultist should have 6 skill+int. I know that the alchemist has 4. But the occultist do not attack with touch attack. Can he even be able to attack effecialy? I don't even now how to play it.
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I disagree wholeheartedly. I REALLY like where the class is now as far as base proficiencies, skills, etc. I like that it's sort of a midrange variable class that can be built to do a wide range of things. I think 6 skill points pushes it further into the investigator, spellcasting sit in the back type which is exactly what I don't want to see. There are enough of those and I think this class fills a design space that's been sort of missing.
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I see there's quite a few guys out there thinking this class through to level 20, which is great (keep at it fellas), but right now, I'm trying to get my head around a level 1 starting Occultist for a PFS game this Tuesday.
One of the first questions I had is about taking the same Implement twice at level 1.
Firstly, you'd only get one focus power, yup?
And secondly, is there any reason you couldn't take the same resonant power twice?
Obviously, the vast majority of them would give no benefit from being taken twice, but there are the odd one or two which could be useful. For example, a pair of legacy weapons for a two weapon fighter.
Apocryphile - the choice you make at 1st is for the ability to use an Implement Group, which allows you access to the whole list. Each day, you select one item - which is your implement for the day. Each implement group also comes with a base focus power.
If you choose the same group twice then you get two spells of each level, plus need to select two different implements. Those then get invested into individually with Mental Focus and unlock resonant powers separately.
For example - you want to make a two weapon fighter, so you choose Transmutation twice at first level. You can then choose 2 x knacks and 2 x 1st level Transmutation to chuck onto your spells list. You also get access to the Base Focus Power Psychic Weapon.
When you prepare for the day, you choose two Implements - in this case two shortswords. You then invest your mental focus, and choose a Resonant Power for each weapon - in this case it has to be Legacy Weapon.
If you invested at least three Mental focus into each weapon, you could choose a separate +1 equivalent ability for each weapon / implement.
You would also only have one eligible Focus Ability to choose - which would be Sudden Speed.
Honestly you'd get more out of choosing two separate groups at 1st level, or going with a 2H weapon / Belt combo.
I've mulled over this and my feedback is:
Occultist is a nice class that reminds me of Magic of Incarnum and has some nice abilities. But seems to lack a unifying theme.
The Circles are thematic but no abilities build on them and they really serve no use until he can cast planar binding, lesser.
The spellcasting feels tacked on, id consider removing spellcasting ability, cut the spells that are already an implement focus ability (like resist energy, globe of invulnerability, etc), combine the scaling spells (inflict/cure wounds) and remaining spells into further focus abilities for the relevant implements that scale depending on level/invested mental energy and bump up the mental points gained.
Consider renaming 'mental energy' to something like 'focus' and switch int for Con to be more in line with Kineticist.
Buff necromantic servant to just be animate dead, like someone else pointed out, as it is currently worthless.
Only thing iffy is the circle ability, which could be reworked to be an immobile ward that keeps creatures out/in dependong on fpcus invested or occultist level (kinda like 5ft square/focus, standard class dc setting to enter the affected square) could also still be a treated as Magic Circle if you can enclose the to be called creature within.
Result should be a more unique class that can adjust its playstyle on a day to day basis while keeping the recognisable "this implementgroup is this kind of school" feel.
Honestly you'd get more out of choosing two separate groups at 1st level, or going with a 2H weapon / Belt combo.
Yeah, I was just using legacy weapon as an example.
I'm going to go with Necromancy & Conjuration. Thought the dichotomy between the two would be nice for an Occultist of Nethys.
Necromantic Servant is useful, in that you don't need a corpse. But apart from that it is a bit meh.
We'll see how it works at level 1 on Tuesday!
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I think the occultist should have 6 skill+int. I know that the alchemist has 4. But the occultist do not attack with touch attack. Can he even be able to attack effecialy? I don't even now how to play it.I second the change to 6+Int skill points/level, and also suggest the addition of the remaining Knowledge skills to their list. I'm starting to think of them as an spellcasting Investigator of sort.
I third the change to 6+Int to skills and second the addition of all Knowledge skills, and I would be willing to (I know most people wont) drop the martial weapon proficiency as I see the class as a more caster skill class. Also as I stated before I think the class should be able to disable magical traps.
I third the change to 6+Int to skills and second the addition of all Knowledge skills, and I would be willing to (I know most people wont) drop the martial weapon proficiency as I see the class as a more caster skill class. Also as I stated before I think the class should be able to disable magical traps.I think the occultist should have 6 skill+int. I know that the alchemist has 4. But the occultist do not attack with touch attack. Can he even be able to attack effecialy? I don't even now how to play it.I second the change to 6+Int skill points/level, and also suggest the addition of the remaining Knowledge skills to their list. I'm starting to think of them as an spellcasting Investigator of sort.
Or at least be able to pick it up.
I third the change to 6+Int to skills and second the addition of all Knowledge skills, and I would be willing to (I know most people wont) drop the martial weapon proficiency as I see the class as a more caster skill class. Also as I stated before I think the class should be able to disable magical traps.Or at least be able to pick it up.
While I think the class skills and skill points are fine where they are, I do think that adding trapfinding and/or trap sense might benefit the class. Based on the role description of the class:
Role: Occultists are always eager to travel with adventurers, explorers, and archaeologists, as those three groups of people always have a knack for finding items with rich histories and great significance.
Why can't Occultists be their own explorers and archaeologists? I find it much more interesting to be psychic Indiana Jones, leading the party into the crypt, than standing at the back.
Mostly I just think that Disable Dweomer would be perfect for this class. Or other abilities to tinker with magical items that may not be his implements.
Trap sense would be an interesting and fitting ability for them.
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If Trap Sense is added... let it at least be a Resonant Power or Focus Power option and not hard-coded into the base class. Divination would be the obvious fit. Sure it fits for some concepts - but it doesn't fit for all concepts.
I personally don't see why the Occultist should have Knowledge Geography, Nature or Nobility... but could see a partial case for Dungeoneering or Local.
4+Int = likely 7-8 for a non-Human or 8-9 for a Human... which is plenty in my books. The class benefits more from Martial weapon proficiencies than it would through an extra two skill points it doesn't really need.
Why Abjuration?
Abjurations are protective spells. They create physical or magical barriers, negate magical or physical abilities, harm trespassers, or even banish the subject of the spell to another plane of existence.
Divination spells enable you to learn secrets long forgotten, predict the future, find hidden things, and foil deceptive spells.
Surely the fluff in the PRD on Divination is far more on point?
Why Abjuration?
Abjurations are protective spells. They create physical or magical barriers, negate magical or physical abilities, harm trespassers, or even banish the subject of the spell to another plane of existence.Divination spells enable you to learn secrets long forgotten, predict the future, find hidden things, and foil deceptive spells.
Surely the fluff in the PRD on Divination is far more on point?
Well, open/close and knock are transmutation, so that actually seems more appropriate to me.
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This implies that you may only have one item per group with focus each day.
So you could not for example, have a puppet and shroud during the same day as both are Necromantic unless you selected that group twice? Likewise you couldn't have a Legacy Weapon and Quick Steps during the same day unless you selected Transmutation twice?
That appears to be the case, yes.
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After building an Occultist... I find them very versatile at level 1. I used Abjuration/Transmutation and came up with high AC and decent damage output, good spread of skills and a little bit of spells and focus to buff up in a tight spot. I would say comparable to a melee focused Oracle or Cleric, but with better skills. I wish I had more table time between now and the end of the month and I would playtest it as well, but I am committed to a spiritualist I already played. I am going to try to get more folks on board at the lodge.
What's the range of a loci sentry? Meaning, when you cast/create it?
Can you pick a different focus implement every day if you want? Like, belt one day, but boots the next?
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ok i think im starting to understand this alot better now
power of the implement’s history. When you choose this
resonant power, select a weapon special ability with an
equivalent enhancement bonus less than or equal to +1 for
every 3 points of mental focus invested in the implement
(to a maximum of 1 + 1/4 your occultist level). As long as the
implement qualifies for the ability, it gains that weapon
special ability as long as it contains at least 3 points of mental
focus per +1 equivalent of the special ability. You can choose
this ability only with a weapon.
from what it says, you dont get multiple ablilites instead you get one ablilty, but it's a +1 ablilty at lv1 for three points, or its a +2 abliltiy at lv4 for 6 points at least this is what im getting out of this
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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If the illusion implement power distortion reaches 50% miss chance and counts as invisibility, what happens if the occultist attacks? Does he become invisible until his next round when it activates invisibility again, or is the power supposed to count as greater invisibility, since it mentioned getting all of the benefits of invisibility, which I guess would exclude the becoming visible upon attacking. If so, simply calling it greater invisibility would be more clear.
Am I the only one who wishes this was a 9-level caster with d6 HD and low BAB? I really like the implement based casting, and various powers, but wish it was a full caster instead of a hybrid.
TBH I like the concept enough that I can see all the variants (4 level, 6 level and 9 level casters) as viable options... but if we only get one I like the middleground hybrid the best :)
Am I the only one who wishes this was a 9-level caster with d6 HD and low BAB? I really like the implement based casting, and various powers, but wish it was a full caster instead of a hybrid.
Yeah. A full caster with a more fleshed out spell list would fulfill what the class is currently doing a lot more effectively.
Making it function as a hybrid is going to require some re-tuning and additional abilities for physical combat to be a viable option. That said, a hybrid would be better for a broader variety of character concepts, so it's probably worth the effort.
Looks like the spell list only includes spells from the core rule book. Will the final product include appropriate spells from other sources such as APG, UC, UM, etc?
And maybe a few Psychic spells?
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, Contributor
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Am I the only one who wishes this was a 9-level caster with d6 HD and low BAB? I really like the implement based casting, and various powers, but wish it was a full caster instead of a hybrid.Yeah. A full caster with a more fleshed out spell list would fulfill what the class is currently doing a lot more effectively.
Making it function as a hybrid is going to require some re-tuning and additional abilities for physical combat to be a viable option. That said, a hybrid would be better for a broader variety of character concepts, so it's probably worth the effort.
I'm a big fan of the versatility the hybrid nature of the class brings to the table. From my limited play experience, I'd say it makes the early levels much more enjoyable than they typically are on a full caster.
Out of curiousity, what do you think it's lacking in combat viability? The things that stick out to me are lack of class-based accuracy and damage bonuses at high levels. Seems to be fairly viable at low-to-mid, though, unless I'm missing something.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Now that I've read the section on psychic spells, I'm wondering if the occultist should be a psychic caster. It seems like a class that should have spells with verbal components. Maybe keep it as a psychic caster, but have the option of using verbal components instead of thought components, or adding a verbal component as a move action to grant a bonus to the spell such as +1 to the DC for saves, +1 caster level, etc.?
It's totally functional for physical combat at low to mid levels. But that drop-off kind've a problem, since it means if someone really wants to build an occultist to be a strong martial-esque character, they're going to eventually fall behind and stop being able to be good at the thing they wanted to build around, which isn't fun.
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Am I the only one who wishes this was a 9-level caster with d6 HD and low BAB? I really like the implement based casting, and various powers, but wish it was a full caster instead of a hybrid.
I would be just fine if this happened because I usually run casters, but I'd also be okay if it went in the opposite direction.
I don't agree with the 6+Int skill points that some people are advocating for, but I realize all of this is based off of what we perceive the class is suppose to be. Some see caster, others see melee warrior, and others think it's a skillmonkey. I'm not sure if that's a blessing or curse for the occultist.
The more I read this thread the more confused I am.
I'd really like the "one item as three implements at once" question posed by AlanDG2 upthread answered. I'd also like clarification on the +1 ability or enhancement question.
I'm uninterested in builds with items. I'm not assuming any WBL - I just want to understand how the class works.
The Occultist still feels really cool, I'm also not interested in roles or comparing it to bards or magus or investigators or 9th level casting etc. I merely want to understand how to make one at 1st level, and run it.
Currently it feels way too complicated to make let alone run. As far as design goes, that is a terrible thing for me. I get that it seems perfectly clear to other posters. But really, I get all other classes, so this is either a personal difficulty or the class is unclear.
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Currently it feels way too complicated to make let alone run. As far as design goes, that is a terrible thing for me. I get that it seems perfectly clear to other posters. But really, I get all other classes, so this is either a personal difficulty or the class is unclear.
For a playtest I think it needs to be run to better give feedback on why it's too complicated. I made a spreadsheet going through the first twelve levels of my character concept and played the first level. Occultist can have superb flexibility, but that increased flexibility leads to over complexity. The individual implement resonant abilities all have their own max out limits that get confusing when you start trying to figure out four or more. Knowing which Focus Powers are available to my character at each level required the creation of a list (just listing the Focus Powers by what level they open up at would help tremendously.)
This reminds me of my Summoner. My Eidolon's evolution points are complicated and each level I have to stop and check what's now available and how they all interact with each other. I have some nice flexibility at that point to change how she works, but then I have to adjust to the new version. the Occultist instead has this Every Single Day and frankly blows the eidolon out of the water at higher levels when looking at the confusion of it all.
I feel that implement acquisition should be slowed down (third one not until sixth level?) and some more thematic abilities to define its role better or just some bonus feats to allow players to get it to where they want it to be faster.
Not to stomp on either 3PP or the Ranger, but is there a possibility of being able to use some form of trap-type quasi-spell based on having pieces of said type of trap or a key component? Teeth from a bear trap, a snare pin, a piece of wire and an empty pitch jar...instead of actually setting up the trap, prepare it as a spell X number of times per day.
Inspiration, in this case, is the Deception series of games by Tecmo.
Additionally, I like the idea of having a class with implement-based studied casting - however, I would also like to see at least one or two archetypes focusing on, respectively, having a specific implement that counts as per the earlier question from AlanDG2 and having that more powerful, Fullbringer style of theme, as well as a more 'spontaneous caster' type of Occultist who relies on what has been found in order to unlock the magics hidden within. Relies less on what is owned, and more on the environment and goes from there.