What's a good path for being a divine caster and primarily fighting with archery? I'm considering Hunter -> Evangelist (Erastil).
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I've found inquisitors make great archers. Lots of bonus damage.
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Evangelist isn't actually that good. It only becomes good at level 14 when you are finally able to access the 3rd divine boon which adds Wisdom to attack and damage. Before that time it's a 3/4 BAB class that probably has worse saves than whatever your base class is. 14 levels is a long time to wait for something to be good, especially when you're likely to only get 1 to 2 levels of play with it.
The best divine caster with archery is the Ranger. He gets bonus feats which allow him to ignore archery prereqs and 4th level spell casting. If you want more spell casting, the next best divine caster is going to be the Inquisitor.
Yeah, it's problematic when you switch stat dependency so late in the game. But you also get to bifurcate your companion, and with the hunter's teamwork feats, that could come in big.
Inquisitor is another option.
Warpriest is also a solid option. You get a bunch of combat bonus feats, and being able to swift-action cast stuff like Divine Favor at the start of combat is pretty awesome. The Champion of the Faith archetype lets you get Smite, too, though the fact it still keys off Charisma for a Wisdom based caster makes it a bit MAD.
Yeah, it's problematic when you switch stat dependency so late in the game. But you also get to bifurcate your companion, and with the hunter's teamwork feats, that could come in big.
Inquisitor is another option.
Hunter is 3/4 BAB which slows down when you can acquire archery feats, and you only get 1 bonus feat which apply to archery, and though you get Teamwork bonus feats they aren't really any good for archery. The Hunter focuses on making the Animal Companion good, not the PC itself.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by bifurcate your companion. Bifurcate means to cut or split.
And true regarding teamwork feats. There's Wounded Paw Gambit, but the other good ranged teamwork feat is Target of Opportunity, and that doesn't really combo with animal companions. Maybe Apes could use thrown weapons though, if you give it some Int. Still not that great.
A Warpriest of Erastil with the Sacred Fist archetype can take the Crusader's Flurry feat to FoB with bows once they get Channel Energy (4th lvl).
Oath of Vengeance archer paladin is a strong contender if you're going to fight lots of evil things.
Evangelist isn't actually that good. It only becomes good at level 14 when you are finally able to access the 3rd divine boon which adds Wisdom to attack and damage. Before that time it's a 3/4 BAB class that probably has worse saves than whatever your base class is. 14 levels is a long time to wait for something to be good, especially when you're likely to only get 1 to 2 levels of play with it.
The best divine caster with archery is the Ranger. He gets bonus feats which allow him to ignore archery prereqs and 4th level spell casting. If you want more spell casting, the next best divine caster is going to be the Inquisitor.
How exactly is the ranger better than the inquisitor? The spellcasting of the inquisitor starts sooner, bane and greater bane add more damage than favoured enemy (and is only up for some enemies) and destruction judgement adds even more static damage per arrow.
To top that off; Litany of righteousness/vengeance blows ranger out of the water in terms of raw damage potential.
The bonus feats of a ranger are nice (early access to improved precise shot or point blank master is great), and make you do reliable damage. The higher Bab is also a plus, but I think it'll be hard to claim the ranger is 'best'. It is easier to play though, IMO.
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How exactly is the ranger better than the inquisitor? The spellcasting of the inquisitor starts sooner, bane and greater bane add more damage than favoured enemy (and is only up for some enemies) and destruction judgement adds even more static damage per arrow.
To top that off; Litany of righteousness/vengeance blows ranger out of the water in terms of raw damage potential.
The bonus feats of a ranger are nice (early access to improved precise shot or point blank master is great), and make you do reliable damage. The higher Bab is also a plus, but I think it'll be hard to claim the ranger is 'best'. It is easier to play though, IMO.
Inquisitors can't actually make use of the Litany of the Righteous as they do not have an aura class feature. Only Paladins and Clerics get the aura class feature (IIRC) but I am certain that Inquisitors do not. Litany of Vegeance is good, but it only last for 1 round.
The Ranger is better at archery because he has higher BAB (which allows him to pick up feats sooner) and because he gets to ignore feat requirements using his combat style feats which the Inquisitor does not. Not being able to pick up Improved Precise Shot until level 15 is a big deal. The ranger got it at level 6. Not everything is about damage, especially if you can't hit the enemy (due to penalties for concealment/cover and lower BAB). Judgement is good, especially destruction. However, you have limited uses per day and Destruction competes with all the other Judgement types which you may want to use. Also, Favored Enemy scales higher applies to attack and damage rolls, and once you have access to Instant Enemy & Pearls of Power you can use it as often as you really need to. Bane and Greater Bane do help to make up for this discrepancy, but we would really have to do a break down at each level (due to difference in BAB and when attacks are gained, especially with Rapid Shot and Manyshot) to see at what level which character has higher DPR.
Also, remember we wren't really talking about spellcasting. We were talking about archery. The Inquisitor does definitely win at spellcasting. Don't forget that the ranger also gets gravity bow and the Inquisitor doesn't, which makes up for some of the difference with Bane.
Tl;dr - We would really need to do a level by level comparison and also keep in mind the type of campaign being run. Rangers can be extremely situational, but as an example I am currently playing Skull and Shackles and 90% of my enemies have be humanoid(human) meaning I've gotten huge mileage out of that as my Favored Enemy. Without running all the numbers, I just think the ranger is probably better (especially factoring in penalties for cover/concealment).
Also, the animal companion feature is a huge boon that allows the archer to move and still get a full attack in each round.
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Paladin - Divine Hunter
1: Precise Shot
3: Rapid Shot
5: Deadly Aim
7: Manyshot
9: Clustered Shots (still not sure about this one)
11: Improved Precise Shot
is a good start.
This is assuming not human. Rearrange as necessary if picking up a bonus feat. Take the Magical Knack trait so your caster level starts off at -1 instead of -3. You won't have spells til 4th lvl, but you can still use a CLW wand.
Inquisitors can't actually make use of the Litany of the Righteous as they do not have an aura class feature. Only Paladins and Clerics get the aura class feature (IIRC) but I am certain that Inquisitors do not. Litany of Vegeance is good, but it only last for 1 round.
You are right about this. I realised after posting but didn't get around to changing it.
As for ranger, I'd be interested to see what build you'd come-up with. Should have a look over in the Higher Archer DMG build thread and see how you'd do.
I still think inquisitor has more potential. Divine Power/Wrath/Greater Magic Weapon/Litany of Vengeance/Weapon of Awe would all outpace gravity bow, which is a +1 to damage most times.
Add to that that greater bane is at least equal to Favoured Enemy (+2/+16 vs +10/+10) and available earlier (as in, greater bane at 12, when favoured enemy lingers at +6/+6.
Not saying a ranger is bad. And maybe more reliable/better. Indeed we'd need a level by level comparison. Which would need to exclude other factors (buffing potential, cover, to-hit increase from teamwork feats, versatility outside of combat) which are highly relevant to how you play a character. For now I'd like to settle for calling it a draw, how about you :)?
Just realise that an inquisitor could always dip 1 level paladin for the aura and still get to use Litany of Righteousness :).
Cleric of Erastil with Animal Domain, gets you the prof in the bow, and with boon companion a wicked bodyguard/attack dog to go hurt things with you. (Seriously one of the players in my gaming group had a panda that killed things flat dead, including dealing the death blow to a black dragon.)
A mount also allows you to move and full attack, which is huge.
A wood oracle with the warsighted archetype would make a powerful switch hitter, take wood bond asap, as this will allow for effectively full bab less the last itterative. Martial Flexibility will allow you to have the feats to use an wood weapon perfectly. You also have a nice 9th lvl caster chassis to solve any other issues.
EDIT:2 to 3 feats latter you can have an animal companion, very fiting for this more nature themed character, either a attacker/flanker or mount, whatever fits the campaign/style better.
A mount also allows you to move and full attack, which is huge.
It does? I'm pretty sure if the mount moves you count as moving too.
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A mount also allows you to move and full attack, which is huge.It does? I'm pretty sure if the mount moves you count as moving too.
If the mount charges, you are charging. If the mount Moves, you can still full attack. And you only take mounted archery penalties if the mount double moves.
You are right about this. I realised after posting but didn't get around to changing it.
As for ranger, I'd be interested to see what build you'd come-up with. Should have a look over in the Higher Archer DMG build thread and see how you'd do.
I still think inquisitor has more potential. Divine Power/Wrath/Greater Magic Weapon/Litany of Vengeance/Weapon of Awe would all outpace gravity bow, which is a +1 to damage most times.
Add to that that greater bane is at least equal to Favoured Enemy (+2/+16 vs +10/+10) and available earlier (as in, greater bane at 12, when favoured enemy lingers at +6/+6.
Not saying a ranger is bad. And maybe more reliable/better. Indeed we'd need a level by level comparison. Which would need to exclude other factors (buffing potential, cover, to-hit increase from teamwork feats, versatility outside of combat) which are highly relevant to how you play a character. For now I'd like to settle for calling it a draw, how about you :)?
Just realise that an inquisitor could always dip 1 level paladin for the aura and still get to use Litany of Righteousness :).
I'm willing to call it a draw, mostly because I'm too lazy too do up all the math. I will however add that some of those buffs are ones that would have to be cast in combat, like Divine Grace since it last rounds per level. A round of lost attacks could means less total damage in combat overall. And as far as Greater Magic Weapon is concerned, Rangers have Versatile Weapon which also allows you to bypass certain types of DR.
If the mount charges, you are charging. If the mount Moves, you can still full attack. And you only take mounted archery penalties if the mount double moves.A mount also allows you to move and full attack, which is huge.It does? I'm pretty sure if the mount moves you count as moving too.
If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only take an attack action.
I'm willing to call it a draw, mostly because I'm too lazy too do up all the math. I will however add that some of those buffs are ones that would have to be cast in combat, like Divine Grace since it last rounds per level. A round of lost attacks could means less total damage in combat overall. And as far as Greater Magic Weapon is concerned, Rangers have Versatile Weapon which also allows you to bypass certain types of DR.You are right about this. I realised after posting but didn't get around to changing it.
As for ranger, I'd be interested to see what build you'd come-up with. Should have a look over in the Higher Archer DMG build thread and see how you'd do.
I still think inquisitor has more potential. Divine Power/Wrath/Greater Magic Weapon/Litany of Vengeance/Weapon of Awe would all outpace gravity bow, which is a +1 to damage most times.
Add to that that greater bane is at least equal to Favoured Enemy (+2/+16 vs +10/+10) and available earlier (as in, greater bane at 12, when favoured enemy lingers at +6/+6.
Not saying a ranger is bad. And maybe more reliable/better. Indeed we'd need a level by level comparison. Which would need to exclude other factors (buffing potential, cover, to-hit increase from teamwork feats, versatility outside of combat) which are highly relevant to how you play a character. For now I'd like to settle for calling it a draw, how about you :)?
Just realise that an inquisitor could always dip 1 level paladin for the aura and still get to use Litany of Righteousness :).
So, using Hero Lab I created an equivalent Inquisitor to my Ranger, level 10. With the dual Judgements active adding to attack bonus and damage the Inquisitor does pull ahead on static damage by 2, and they have equivalent attack bonuses. However, the Inquisitor doesn't have Improved Precise shot which can make a big difference and it requires using Judgements which are limited to twice per day at this point.
Then we can apply FE versus Bane. FE will provide a greater attack bonus, but will lose slightly on the damage (on average).
I think what happens in Inquisitor versus Ranger is that if you have only 1 or 2 combats per day then Inquisitor is likely better. However, once Judgements are used up, and once Bane rounds have been used, the Inquisitor will fall behind the Ranger.
So, depending on the campaign type the Ranger has more damage over the course of the day with more staying power. While the Inquisitor can nova and outdamage the ranger in a specific combat or two.
Sound like a fair comparison?
For my concept I'd like divine casting going up to at least 6th level spells to have a bigger toolkit. Inquisitor is probably the best choice in that case.
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I still think inquisitor has more potential. Divine Power/Wrath/Greater Magic Weapon/Litany of Vengeance/Weapon of Awe would all outpace gravity bow, which is a +1 to damage most times.
Actually, for a medium character, Gravity bow takes the weapon from 1d8 (4.5 avg) to 2d6 (7.0), for an increase of 2.5 points on average.
For my concept I'd like divine casting going up to at least 6th level spells to have a bigger toolkit. Inquisitor is probably the best choice in that case.
Well, there you go then. I think that solidly decides it then.
If you want 6th level spellcasting that really only leaves Inquisitor as being the most competent at spell casting and archery.
I still think inquisitor has more potential. Divine Power/Wrath/Greater Magic Weapon/Litany of Vengeance/Weapon of Awe would all outpace gravity bow, which is a +1 to damage most times.Actually, for a medium character, Gravity bow takes the weapon from 1d8 (4.5 avg) to 2d6 (7.0), for an increase of 2.5 points on average.
I kept seeing people saying that, but I never addressed it. But yes, on a medium creature it will increase average damage by 2.5. If you can find a way to become large (with large arrows on your mount) you can get up to 3d6 for another 3.5 average, for 10.5.
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For my concept I'd like divine casting going up to at least 6th level spells to have a bigger toolkit. Inquisitor is probably the best choice in that case.Well, there you go then. I think that solidly decides it then.
If you want 6th level spellcasting that really only leaves Inquisitor as being the most competent at spell casting and archery.
Or Warpriest, they get the 6th level casting, lots of bonus feats to use for archery feats at increased levels. As a bonus, Air blessing is great for archery.
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If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only take an attack action.If the mount charges, you are charging. If the mount Moves, you can still full attack. And you only take mounted archery penalties if the mount double moves.A mount also allows you to move and full attack, which is huge.It does? I'm pretty sure if the mount moves you count as moving too.
Only if you're meleeing. "If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack." & "You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving"
To be sure, Claxon, FA can be up more in a campaign where you know the type of enemies you will face.
Like I said, early access to imp precise shot is great. I would conten) d, however, that your melee could also be kind enough to prevent providing cover ALL THE DAMN TIME ;)
The level of comparison (at 10 where the ranger gets a higher FA or 12 when inq gets greater bane) also skews the results.
Overall, I guess I can agree to the conclusions drawn. I'd still like your level 12 herolab ranger in the other tgread to see if he could hold its' own!
If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only take an attack action.If the mount charges, you are charging. If the mount Moves, you can still full attack. And you only take mounted archery penalties if the mount double moves.A mount also allows you to move and full attack, which is huge.It does? I'm pretty sure if the mount moves you count as moving too.
You are incorrect, because we are talking about ranged attacks.
Combat while Mounted: With a DC 5 Ride check, you can guide your mount with your knees so as to use both hands to attack or defend yourself. This is a free action.
When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can't make a full attack. Even at your mount's full speed, you don't take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted.
If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).
You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a –4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed) at a –8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.
To be sure, Claxon, FA can be up more in a campaign where you know the type of enemies you will face.
Like I said, early access to imp precise shot is great. I would conten) d, however, that your melee could also be kind enough to prevent providing cover ALL THE DAMN TIME ;)
The level of comparison (at 10 where the ranger gets a higher FA or 12 when inq gets greater bane) also skews the results.
Overall, I guess I can agree to the conclusions drawn. I'd still like your level 12 herolab ranger in the other tgread to see if he could hold its' own!
They are just general conclusions. I think the Inquisitor does out DPR the Ranger for a couple of combats a day (depending on the number of times he can use Judgements). However, once those are gone his damage and to hit drop pretty hard, even with Greater Bane.
I don't actually have a 12th level ranger build quite yet, as I literally just repurposed my 10th level Ranger that I'm playing in Skull and Shackles into an Inquisitor for comparison. It's honestly suboptimal (for archery) because I have feats like Boon Companion on him and he is also an Undine, but this was just to get a sense of what it could do. Obviously I got rid of boon companion when doing the Inquisitor, but if I had just focused on archery with the ranger he could also have Clustered Shot which would give a huge advantage over the Inquisitor on targets with DR that he could not bypass (circumstantial but not irrelevant). Honestly, there's a lot at work here, more than just simple DPR calculations and I'm not sure I'm up to the challenge of doing a truly great comparison including all possible variables.
Cleric of Erastil with Animal Domain, gets you the prof in the bow, and with boon companion a wicked bodyguard/attack dog to go hurt things with you. (Seriously one of the players in my gaming group had a panda that killed things flat dead, including dealing the death blow to a black dragon.)
Forget Erastil, Cleric of the Empyreal Lord Ylimacha with Feather domain, not only get a nice boost to your perception but be able to ride your Roc into battle and rain arrows from above.
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Inquisitors can't actually make use of the Litany of the Righteous as they do not have an aura class feature. Only Paladins and Clerics get the aura class feature (IIRC) but I am certain that Inquisitors do not. Litany of Vegeance is good, but it only last for 1 round.
Litany of Righteousness
School evocation [good, language-dependent]; Level inquisitor 3,
paladin 2
Casting Time 1 swift action
Components V, S, DF
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one creature
Duration 1 round
Saving Throw no; Spell Resistance yes
Calling down a litany of anathema, you make an evil more
susceptible to the attacks of good creatures. If the target is
evil, it takes double damage from attacks made by creatures
with a good aura (from a class feature or as a creature with the
good subtype). If the target also has the evil subtype; when it is
hit with attacks made by creatures with a good aura, it is also
dazzled for 1d4 rounds. If this spell targets a nonevil creature
(or one that lacks the evil subtype), it has no effect, and the
spell is wasted.
While subject to this spell, the target cannot be the target of
another spell that has the word "litany" in the title.
As long as the inquisitor is good and at least lvl 5 (an aligned creature has a good aura if high enough level) or an outsider then they have a good aura. A level 3 inquisitor is (at least) a 5th level character so they do have an aura (assuming they're not neutral). So if they're good they can use this without multiclassing. This is exactly why it shows up on the inquisitor spell list as a third level spell. It would be useless for a straight inquisitor if this weren't the case and wouldn't be on their spell list.
As long as the inquisitor is good and at least lvl 5 (an aligned creature has a good aura if high enough level) or an outsider then they have a good aura. A level 3 inquisitor is (at least) a 5th level character so they do have an aura (assuming they're not neutral). So if they're good they can use this without multiclassing. This is exactly why it shows up on the inquisitor spell list as a third level spell. It would be useless for a straight inquisitor if this weren't the case and wouldn't be on their spell list.
Incorrect. It even goes on to tell you why in the description of the spell. You must have a good aura from either class feature or from having the good subtype. Player races do not have the good subtype, and only paladins and clerics have an aura of good.
How detect magic works for the purpose of having aura's does not apply here. You do not have an aura for any purpose except for detect good if you are an Inquisitor.
If you want a Quincy go with Dreamscarred press psionics, they have a class archetype that is identical to a Quincy.
Incorrect. It even goes on to tell you why in the description of the spell. You must have a good aura from either class feature or from having the good subtype. Player races do not have the good subtype, and only paladins and clerics have an aura of good.
How detect magic works for the purpose of having aura's does not apply here. You do not have an aura for any purpose except for detect good if you are an Inquisitor.
I meant Detect Good, not Detect Magic. There have been many posts covering this topic. Without multiclassing or some shenanigans to gain a aura temporarily (I believe there is a spell that can do it) the Inquisitor cannot benefit from Litany of the Righteous.
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As long as the inquisitor is good and at least lvl 5 (an aligned creature has a good aura if high enough level) or an outsider then they have a good aura. A level 3 inquisitor is (at least) a 5th level character so they do have an aura (assuming they're not neutral). So if they're good they can use this without multiclassing. This is exactly why it shows up on the inquisitor spell list as a third level spell. It would be useless for a straight inquisitor if this weren't the case and wouldn't be on their spell list.Incorrect. It even goes on to tell you why in the description of the spell. You must have a good aura from either class feature or from having the good subtype. Player races do not have the good subtype, and only paladins and clerics have an aura of good.
I'm still going to have to disagree. The parenthetical is examples. If they were meant to be the explicit rules then the parenthesis would not be there and the sentence would read as you suggest.
I'm going to have to disagree with your disagreement and tell you that it absolutely works that way.
You're suggestion is that because a creature has an aura when under the Detect Good spell, that it has an aura of good at all times. But it does not. Inquisitors do not have auras.
See here and here and here (somewhat).
Edit: Oh, and this thread too.
Oh, and here is quote by James Jacobs that effectively confirms it as well.
That spell should have probably have been made a cleric spell instead of an inquisitor spell. It's probably worth flagging as errata or something.Litany of Righteousness
It is an Inquisitor and Paladin only spell, but a Inquisitor dont have a aura which is needed. Is it right a Inquisitor MUST multiclass to use it?
Edit 2: Also, if it was meant to be examples rather than a restriction wouldn't have just made more sense to say that good creatures (as a blanket statement) get the benefit rather than saying good aura? Because that is what your assertion is essentially. That any good aligned creature with 5 HD or more recieves the benefit.
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I'm going to have to disagree with your disagreement and tell you that it absolutely works that way.
You're suggestion is that because a creature has an aura when under the Detect Good spell, that it has an aura of good at all times. But it does not. Inquisitors do not have auras.
See here and here and here (somewhat).
Edit: Oh, and this thread too.
Oh, and here is quote by James Jacobs that effectively confirms it as well.
Edit 2: Also, if it was meant to be examples rather than a restriction wouldn't have just made more sense to say that good creatures (as a blanket statement) get the benefit rather than saying good aura? Because that is what your assertion is essentially. That any good aligned creature with 5 HD or more recieves the benefit.That spell should have probably have been made a cleric spell instead of an inquisitor spell. It's probably worth flagging as errata or something.Litany of Righteousness
It is an Inquisitor and Paladin only spell, but a Inquisitor dont have a aura which is needed. Is it right a Inquisitor MUST multiclass to use it?
You're right, I was confusing good aura with being good which are separate things.
p.s. when quoting someone (especially someone important) from a different thread, please post the link to that tread as it's awfully easy to just put whatever you want in quote block (I'm not saying you did, I'm just saying I'd like to know the context of the post)
You're right, I was confusing good aura with being good which are separate things.
p.s. when quoting someone (especially someone important) from a different thread, please post the link to that tread as it's awfully easy to just put whatever you want in quote block (I'm not saying you did, I'm just saying I'd like to know the context of the post)
My bad, I thought I linked it in there but I guess I didn't. I made multiple edits to the post so I guess I thought I inlcuded it but didn't.
For reference, I believe it's in the Ask James Jacobs anything thread. Though it's incredibly long.
Edit:This shoud get you to the right spot I think.
Just dip cleric or paladin. Litany of righteousness is worth it.
I would say Ranger is still a better all around option. Expecially if you go Hooded Champion. Here is a quick build on Hero lab.
Hunter 12
Hobgoblin Ranger (Hooded Champion) 12
CG Medium humanoid (goblinoid)
Init +9; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +19
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Defense
--------------------
AC 26, touch 17, flat-footed 19 (+9 armor, +7 Dex)
hp 82 (12d10+12)
Fort +9, Ref +15, Will +8
Defensive Abilities deed: evasive
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft., deed: kip-up
Ranged +2 ironwood composite longbow +24/+19/+14 (1d8+4/×3)
Special Attacks favored enemies (humans +5, oozes +2)
Ranger (Hooded Champion) Spells Prepared (CL 9th; concentration +13):
3rd—instant enemy, venomous bolt(DC 17)
2nd—acute senses(DC 16), barkskin, protection from energy
1st—aspect of the falcon, gravity bow, magic fang
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Statistics
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Str 18, Dex 24, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 17
Base Atk +12; CMB +16; CMD 33
Feats Clustered Shots, Deadly Aim, Improved Precise Shot, Manyshot, Point Blank Master, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (longbow)
Skills Climb +6, Handle Animal +14, Heal +8, Intimidate +7, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +10, Knowledge (nature) +10, Perception +19, Ride +16, Spellcraft +15, Stealth +24, Survival +17, Swim +6; Racial Modifiers +4 Stealth, deed: derring-do
Languages Common, Goblin
SQ camouflage, combat styles (archery), deed: dead aim, deed: dodging panache, deed: hooded champion’s initiative, deed: swashbuckler's grace, favored terrains (city +2, underground +4), hunter's bonds (hunter's bond [animal companion]), panache, quarry, swift tracker, track +6, woodland stride
Combat Gear pearl of power (3rd level)X4; Other Gear celestial armor, +2 ironwood composite longbow, Boots of Speed, dagger, shortsword, belt of physical might +4 (Str, Dex), bracers of archery, greater, headband of mental prowess +4 (Wis, Cha), hunter's kit, 45,106 gp
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Special Abilities
--------------------
Animal Companion Link (Ex),Camouflage (Ex), Deed: Dead Aim(Ex), Deed: Derring-Do(Ex), Deed: Dodging Panache(Ex), Deed: Evasive(Ex), Deed: Hooded Champion’s Initiative(Ex), Deed: Kip-Up(Ex), Deed: Swashbuckler's Grace(Ex), Favored Enemy (Humans +5), Favored Enemy (Oozes +2), Favored Terrain (City +2) Favored Terrain (Underground +4), Panache(Ex), Quarry, Share Spells, Swift Tracker(Ex), Woodland Stride (Ex).
So assuming Instant Enemy, Deadly Aim, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Many Shot, and Haste(Boots of Speed) modifiers added:
23/23/23/18/13 for 110 avg dmg without crits, Gravity Bow, or extra elemental dmg bonuses. Pretty decent damage at level 12. And thats with a quick build an without all his stuff added in. He also has a really nice mount/Pet. The real beauty of a Ranger is that he has Improved Precise Shot, and Point blank Master at such an early level. That with the bonuses he can stack on and the straight BAB means he will be hitting more often an Inquisitor. Its not really a contest imo.
Forget Erastil, Cleric of the Empyreal Lord Ylimacha with Feather domain, not only get a nice boost to your perception but be able to ride your Roc into battle and rain arrows from above.
Erastil also has Feather, not to mention Growth and some other solid domains.
I would say Ranger is still a better all around option. Expecially if you go Hooded Champion. Here is a quick build on Hero lab.
Hunter 12
Hobgoblin Ranger (Hooded Champion) 12
CG Medium humanoid (goblinoid)
Init +9; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +19
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Defense
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AC 26, touch 17, flat-footed 19 (+9 armor, +7 Dex)
hp 82 (12d10+12)
Fort +9, Ref +15, Will +8
Defensive Abilities deed: evasive
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft., deed: kip-up
Ranged +2 ironwood composite longbow +24/+19/+14 (1d8+4/×3)
Special Attacks favored enemies (humans +5, oozes +2)Ranger (Hooded Champion) Spells Prepared (CL 9th; concentration +13):
3rd—instant enemy, venomous bolt(DC 17)
2nd—acute senses(DC 16), barkskin, protection from energy
1st—aspect of the falcon, gravity bow, magic fang
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Statistics
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Str 18, Dex 24, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 17
Base Atk +12; CMB +16; CMD 33
Feats Clustered Shots, Deadly Aim, Improved Precise Shot, Manyshot, Point Blank Master, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (longbow)
Skills Climb +6, Handle Animal +14, Heal +8, Intimidate +7, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +10, Knowledge (nature) +10, Perception +19, Ride +16, Spellcraft +15, Stealth +24, Survival +17, Swim +6; Racial Modifiers +4 Stealth, deed: derring-do
Languages Common, Goblin
SQ camouflage, combat styles (archery), deed: dead aim, deed: dodging panache, deed: hooded champion’s initiative, deed: swashbuckler's grace, favored terrains (city +2, underground +4), hunter's bonds (hunter's bond [animal companion]), panache, quarry, swift tracker, track +6, woodland stride
Combat Gear pearl of power (3rd level)X4; Other Gear celestial armor, +2 ironwood composite longbow, Boots of Speed, dagger, shortsword, belt of physical might +4 (Str, Dex), bracers of archery, greater, headband of mental prowess +4 (Wis, Cha), hunter's kit, 45,106 gp
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Special Abilities...
It's absolutely a contest. You calculated an average DPR of 110 (not sure if you calculated that), a non-shennanigan build for an inquisitor could net you a dpr upwards of 250 dpr. 300 if you try a little harder.
Sure, Inquisitor certainly has a nova-aspect to it. But to argue that it is no contest means you grossly overstate the higher BAB and ignore the fact that Inquisitors (and archers in general) are very dependant on static modifiers to your damage. Greater Bane and Destruction judgement still beat a ranger.
Sure, it's only 12 r/day for Greater Bane and 4/day for judgements. But I would like to point out that at level 12 you have at most 2 level 3 spells as ranger. So instant enemy is also limited to twice a day or a DM being generous in informing you of the type of enemies you will usually encounter.
I would even go so far as to argue that when going all out an inquisitor outpaces a ranger, on staying power they are close and in general versatility there is indeed no contest, but it's the ranger left behind.
Honeslty, without the Judgements in effect the Inquisitor falls behind the ranger. But if you can nova every encounter or don't have many encounters a day, I will admit the Inquisitor is better.
Without Judgements his damage drops by 5 and his attack rolls drop by 3 (at level 12). He probably still has rounds of Greater Bane left, but his inferior attack bonus may come into play to cause less DPR overall.
Inquisitor = Nova Bow Champion
Ranger = More consistent damage throughout the day (better for many (>5) combats per day)
Paladin = Massive Slayer of Evil. Really, he will outdamage anyone if it's evil and he has Smite left. But that's always been the paladin's schtick.
I've seen a couple of inquisitors who had 3+ levels of zen archer so that they could use wisdom as their attack stat which made them less MAD. A huge wisdom also increases the potency of several of the inquisitor class features and skills.
Yeah, a 1 level dip in Paladin + 3 levels of ZA would do some nice things for you. However, you'd postpone Bane/Greater Bane, which I deem it to be not worth it, since most play does not go much past level 16.
On the other hand, in PFS it might actually work (since greater bane is hardly essential).
Meh, I just re-read my favourite post and I feel I have to say that I think Ranger's are very good archers. As are Paladin's and Inquisitors. I just have not seen much evidence, beyond gut-feelings, that one really greatly outdoes another.
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I've seen a couple of inquisitors who had 3+ levels of zen archer so that they could use wisdom as their attack stat which made them less MAD. A huge wisdom also increases the potency of several of the inquisitor class features and skills.Yeah, a 1 level dip in Paladin + 3 levels of ZA would do some nice things for you. However, you'd postpone Bane/Greater Bane, which I deem it to be not worth it, since most play does not go much past level 16.
On the other hand, in PFS it might actually work (since greater bane is hardly essential).
Bane Baldric overcomes that.
Inquisitor's problems are no access to improved precise shot until 15, no useful bonus archery feats, and limited resources on judgements to keep up accuracy. They are a great nova class, but they have weaknesses.