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Some evil so I don't get dragged into the 30 min "discussion" about morality.

Heather 540 wrote:
I suggest a Ring of Protection +2 to increase your AC.

After about level 5 to 10ish depending on campaign AC for a Wiz is a joke, miss chance, spell effects, etc as well as plain ol hiding behind the meat shields is how a wizard lives. Trying for high AC is trying to die. YMMV

Paladin/Life Oracle is a good melee while healing, get paladin 2 or 4ish, then rest oracle. Life link group, lay hands as needed, there is a seperate post a while back about it, flue is kicking my butt or I would link it.

For range I like clerics with domain to get a animal companion and shoot things with a bow, heal and channel in down time.

Take this with a measure of salt, but that fey race as a wizard is just asking for trouble. Tiny wizards have 0 problems, but can be truly annoying when they can by raw hide on another character. Also flying at max spell range invalidates so many issues a wizard normally has.

As I said YMMV

Dang buggy site, any way. Shaman at 15+ is not going to shake the world like a true wizard, sorry but they cant base the perfect list to stop anything, be anywhere or topple any government with 24 hour notice. Wizard can damn well break the game unless they play nice when ran by a good arcane player.

Shaman is a nice jack of many trades, master of none.

Vivisectionist Mindchemist Alcemist/Wizard gets 3/4 BAB, all 3 saves, and a D8 HD. Mutagens + arcane spells with full SA. Can be very effective.

Shadowcaster with the shadow themed feats would do this very well, with a high int you can be good with any skills regardless of stat bonuses. That and I personally feel that arcane spells would trump Bard spells for utility of doing said thievery type actions, without the SLA errata I don't like the wasted caster levels of the trickster.


I make a good 20 ish "events" that don't have a set location but slot them into the map as the players find them. What they find is based on what would be fun for them to find, for them or me. If they search for and plan it firms out more, if they just March along it is more random.

I try to get a few scenarios that allow each character to shine. I also try to balance the rp vs combat based on party's likes and what fits in the world and their location.

This gives the illusion of choice but if I need them to get somewhere they will get there.

With stuff already posted I know this might not be allowed, but after playing a Mindchemist/Vivisectionist alchemist one one side with conjuration(teleport) wizard on the other was a sight to behold. Cognatogen to boost int, extracts for heals and non-wizard spells. Trap Finder trait for the magical traps. Shift was great for thievery and battle field movement/escape.

Click advice, click sticky for guides, click link at bottom to go to another list of guides. Near the end of this list are two guides for vmc's. I will agree with one of the guides that ghoul sorcerer vmc with unarmed is potent with paralyze.

Edit:orc is 6 str, NA bonus, and ability for large size.

Beware stealing something a character valued can create a player very unhappy. Seen this happen once and it caused that player to get very pissed and leave. Was a bit over reaction imo but it can happen.

It can lead to more power but normally it is not more powerful than two characters. What it does is keep people from having to play two personalitys at the same time when role playing.

Edit: beware of mythic tho, it can greatly screw with things, although mythic can do that to single class characters too

After running that AP twice, and before playing it past its end, I can not stress enough if it is played as written a full wizard is so key. As far as your bard, as others have said, concentrate on 1 aspect of it, be it spells, bow or melee. Then past 12 most combat is rocket tag (ie who goes first wins), so being excellent in that 1 area helps you contribute reliably.

AA is a trap for bards IMO.


How about they run into a group of orc's or such. As they approach they hear horns, 6 to 8 of them advancing. You could make this an army that wants to invade the dungeon but the party by entering blocks the way.

The tried and true GMPC is the cleric, Evangelist Cleric is pretty much perfect as it make the rest better.

Vivsectionist Mindchemist alchemist/Blockbuster wizard. Being able to have heals, do sneak damage, and also boost int for DC saves ups utility.

EDIT: this also nets you all 3 saves and better bab, but I have seen one in action and was impressed.

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Need does matter, but it is not the only thing that does. Another thing is being able to fully understand something to want it. How many know how a true motor works, never mind trying to dream that up.

Religion was a true force against progression in the dark ages here, in a medieval setting why would that not be the case. The other thing about tech is it equalizes many more things then fantasy does. Would those in power want to give that up?

At that power preventing rocket tag can be troublesome. Actually regular characters and mythic is normally rocket tag from what I have seen past lvl 10ish.

I did something like this in a Way of the Wicked campaign. Over half the campaign I had the running the gauntlet effect, only resting after 10+ encounters.

Only hiccup I noticed DM'n something like this was CHA using class's got a little OP, the sorcerer in the group literally only cared about that one stat.

If the holy "scourge" learns of them it may be a short life, anything that hunts undead can really hurt.

Negative channeling can also be a tad better for undead as it heals friends/hurts enemies.

It has been a good long time, but my group would love updated rules.
This mod is awesome and we have been using it for years.

Love how all class's have a real role.

Anyway, love updated rules


Boosting channel is iffy to me, channel is great after combat healing, in combat you need a feat and 2 uses to do as a move, and a second feat to exclude enemies. However getting more spells known sure helps the Oracle know all the appropriate removal spells.

Each to their own tho.

My table is DSP and pazio fully open, other 3pp is open if I read and dont see issues. I worry more about my players having fun and not telling them badwrongfun to what they want their character to do/be.

You get 1 attack unless you get the feat two weapon fighting. With two weapon fighting its the -2/-2.

I would say that as a vet of both army combat engineer and navy nuclear engineer. I have been inoculated for every occasion on earth, can reliably hit targets at 300 yards and know alot about modern tactics, survival, and physics. May be a rare combo tho.

For gear a sniper rifle with sound supression, ammo, a modern sled or wagon to mount to a bike, 3 to 5 small light handguns as they wear out some and can break. If portal was big enough scratch bike and just a horse for me and 2 pack horses. Injures from combat can be lanced, so pills for infection is all.

As others have said tho, if no people to cone with, I would be leary at best, as I sleep and pathfinder is built for a party.

Books are fine but they don't last in weather long, study before you go, but 90% of the us understands more of physics, applied that is then any pathfinder person.

Each demi plane has its own rules and everywhere in that demi plane follows those rules, make a second demi plane if you want different rules.

One other thing, they are in a lg land, torture and immediate executions are normally frowned on and the pc's would know that as they are from there.

Redo the whole campaign, one living pc would be destroyed by Thorn imo. One living is not a knot. If they are greener then tell them it's a rewind back to leaving thorns villa and they are a different knot, change enough to keep them guessing and rp thorn telling them precisely what wend wrong and what will happen to them if they fail. That is not a beginner AP imo as they can not make many mistakes without the campaign failing.

Good luck, wish ya the best, was a blast for me to gm.

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To me Psionics is Dnd, occult is cuthulu, each to their own I guess.

Hmm, if the caster or specifically wizard plays nice and makes the group shine and only blows out the stops to stop the tpk why mess with anything.

This is a group game,level headed adults at the table wI'll matter more for everyone having their time to shine more then monkeying around with point buys.

It has been stated that t1 and t2's get more out of class abilities then stats and this is true, but to antagonize the t1 and t2 players out of the gate seems like it could backfire. YMMV

Lawful can also mean a code of ethics, not just follow laws.

For instance Boshido is
I. Rectitude or Justice
II. Courage
III. Benevolence or Mercy
IV. Politeness
V. Honesty and Sincerity
VI. Honor
VII. Loyalty
VIII. Character and Self-Control

Nothing in it says follow rules others have made, just follow my rules.


Well the Evangelist will only do negative energy channel, where as the Fiendish Vessel heals evil and harms neutral/good in the same channel. For a undead/summon cleric I truly recommend the fiendish vessel. Also an imp latter brings many possibilities both with UMD or the channel starting point. The domain choice is not as fun, but what you get in return is well worth it IMO. YMMV

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For me it is simple as this. If you say your character can do something please for the love of god stat it so it can, or be the fop that fails. Back story and fluff that does not impact actions is totally up to the players in my games, but the fighter that studied in a wizard tower hurts my head with 2 skill points and no studious aspects.

I have ran many games in many states, and to me there is no badwrongfun if people are having fun. But it is a group play and having fluff that others can relate to and understand really keeps the shenanigans out of the game.


Peet wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
And Kurik gets to enjoy shaping his channels in ways that negate the need for Selective Channel, which is good considering his lack of charisma.
For the record, how do you shape a channel energy?

Holy Vindicator ability

If 3rd party is welcome then a Vitalist with someone who can channel can be effective in combat healing, channel 5d6 to 6 people, and take that 5d6x6 or 30d6 to one person or may spread as you see fit point by point. And that's from a Collective (100ft+10ft/lvl) range. But I may be biased after having one in my game, totally amazing healers/buffers.

Pure pazio, other then pitch healing, and then it is still risky, rocket tag is better. It has been better since 3.0, and the heal spell is the only thing that can arguably make that different.

I don't know why cannon law says healers must have armor other then the days of first and second edition when being squishy was a wizards role. I think I remember an interview I read that Gygax mentioned about healing needs armor to be in the combat to heal. Mind you much of the game has really changed since those days.

I use it. I value my players to have fun more then to be stuck with something that turns out to be useless. It really helps people that don't plan their characters. And it seems to help fighters more then anyone.

I have a sacred warpriest in my campaign and he does more damage then any other character I have had my table between attacks and his self buffinng. He is also very tough with his self healing. YMMV

try http://www.alderac.com/ultimatetoolbox/

Who said you need to know the spell to make the wand, +5 dc is easy to overcome.

Still say fiendish vessel is op, a healer that heals evil, damages good is key, as in evil parties some may be positive/alive and some negative/undead. I will state for the last time this AP needs a balanced group more then any other I have run. Nothing but the party should be trusted, get your players to realize it. Unless you have a much larger group then normal you will run into issues if anything from a tactical group is missing.

As a dm I find asking a few open ended questions helps those that don't have back stories

This campaign has a lot of stated goals that are X, Your players are then challenged on how to do so. It also stymied a group that was more used to railroading. My second group did amazingly well.

On player balance, I can not stress enough that they need to talk about what they are playing and compliment each other. They will be wanted for much of the campaign with little help, so having someone to do traps, heal, make knowledge checks, etc etc is vitally important.

Also try to get someone to be a cleric/anti-paladin/etc of asmodeus to help motivate the group to follow at times. I did use liberal use off the contract in book one to bring unease to any talk dissension. Fiendish Vessel (Cleric) is utterly amazing for this AP with the ability to heal evil and harm good regardless if positive or negative energy is normally used to heal.

The group I ran that finished this was a Fiendish Vessel of asmodeus, Anti-paladin of asmodeus, Rogue 1/Wizard X that did god wizard role, last but not even close to least was a Juju oracle undead making to the absurd.

They forced through very stealth objectives and secretly did some that were supposed to be upfront war, stay nimble my friend as they can really throw you for a loop. On the vampire or lich, I can only suggest they all do it, or none as it brings disadvantages to when or where they can be, if it is not every one it can cause strife.

Latter in the AP combat can really slow down with all their friends, be prepared or story the mass combats.

I personally strongly disagree that a summoner and his pet trump a well played druid with pet. Druids have a ton of spells to truly buff up his AC, summoner has a few. That and the druid is a full 9th caster, the summoner is a semi 9th caster, even by spells per day I prefer the druid.

Most of the OP Eidolon builds I have seen have been breaking more then one rule or another. I stand by the thing takes a rules lawyer to interpret well.

Not saying the summoner is weak, far from it, but bashing the druid is not true to my mind. YMMV

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My guess, per dev's saying they don't like complicated math during combat that rage will change to be a bit easier for non-math types to handle. That there is a need for this makes me sad, but that is another discussion.

Summoner will be less munchkin-able and more standard options. I can see the need, if you don't have the average player read the summoner 2 to 5 times to get how they work it is easy to build a broken eidolon.

Hope they adjust master summoner and synthesist as they sound fun but bring a whole new level of problems.

But this is just my opinion, take it for what you will.

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Give them wizard spells to 6th level or such. Seriously unless you do something like that vivisectionist's, investigators, and bards will make more use of them then a rogue.

And with spells we have truestrike, blur, etc etc to make them a little less squishy and better able to hit and do that SA.

EDIT: added a word for clarity

Not per spoiler after first feat

For a Healadin it is very strong, for a full caster I would not even take 1 level personally as sacrificing CL is a no no. YMMV

I had a evil wizard in a campaign back in 3.0 that in his back story has a very powerful Devil shrouded in shadows tell him that he would be destroyed in no uncertain terms if he did not keep these 4 others alive no matter what. That NE wizard would do whatever his black heart wanted to others behind the scenes. He was a truly trustworthy sage to the group. I think only one other character ever even suspected he was evil, but we had a great GM for that campaign and most of the evil I recall had to be with killing threats prematurely to the 4 he must keep alive.

He was not willy nilly evil, he was a plotter, schemer and coldly logical. The true catch IMO is having a really good reason your black hearted villan wants to play nice with others. Her was just as interested in most adventure hooks as the party if even more, as long as he saw a reason, even far reaching reason to do so.

I find the the vivisectionist alchemist with trap breaker added in. The Cognatogen if you take it, and Mutagen will add flexibility. You get the same sneak attack, some healing, I found it just plain better then a rogue when I personally played a Arcane trickster.

If your DM is lenient you could try to get the feat from undefeatable and then rogue is flat better.

Street Mage
Your rogue and arcane training complement one another.

Prerequisites: 3 ranks in Spellcraft and Stealth, rogue level 1st, arcane spellcaster level 1st
Benefit: Choose one arcane spellcasting class. Your caster level for that class increases by one for each level in the rogue class you possess, up to a maximum of 3 higher than your actual spellcaster level. In addition, when you become able to cast 3rd-level spells with an arcane spellcasting class, your sneak attack damage increases by +1d6.
Special: If you have fewer than 3 rogue levels when you take this feat, and later take additional rogue levels, your caster level continues to increase. This increased caster level only benefits the power of the spells you cast: for all other purposes, such as qualifying for feats, your caster level is still equal to your actual spellcaster level. This feat has no effect on which spells you know or how many you can cast per day.

EDIT: Either way, with Skill Focus Perception traps wont be much of an issue no matter how many rogue levels you pick, and I would make int as main stat, dex next, per a normal wiz, melee you will be damn squishy, and range will give you more options. YMMV

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It really depends, but in all 3 of my campaigns another 9th caster, especially arcane is the one who does the best against BBEG casters. The buffs they have stop a lot of enemy spells, and they have the tools to wreck the enemy. Now I have so few single BBEG's the archwizard almost always has a tough melee or 4 to let the melee play with.

Just think of all the tricks you casters have done to keep melee away or survive almost anything. As I said tho, YMMV.

Fire resistance is the most common by over double of the next, same goes for fire immunity. One trick ponies can be shut down. Would highly advise that you have at least a second trick as Mergy has suggested. For builds like this i really prefer the elven archtype that gets a free spell each level cherry picked from sorc/wiz lists. This would allow fireball, but also cone of cold, magic missle, and acid arrow. However I don't know your campaign or GM, YMMV

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