Lets say in a standard game with a standard rolling method, you rolled perfect 18s in every stat. What would you build with it?
A rogue to balance it out.
Probably a Paladin who, like other martials, are MAD. No point for me to waste rolls like that on, let's say, a Wizard.
Warpriest. Only stat he doesn't need is Int.
Monks...all of them
Melee wizard. ;)
Years ago, a pal of mine decided that "All 18s" was s good name for a rock band.
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Melee wizard. ;)
Years ago, a pal of mine decided that "All 18s" was s good name for a rock band.
Yeah, I heard they were opening for the "Failed Saves" Goth band.
Probably a Paladin, Cleric, or Druid. All of those do fine with 15 PB, but they would be amazing with strait 18s. :P
Lets say in a standard game with a standard rolling method, you rolled perfect 18s in every stat. What would you build with it?
I'd reroll.
A bard.
Epic tales of his deeds would be written.
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as above, re-roll, no challenge and nothing to role-play, bland, boring
Lets say in a standard game with a standard rolling method, you rolled perfect 18s in every stat. What would you build with it?
A swordsage, or some other MAD, but fun class.
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as above, re-roll, no challenge and nothing to role-play, bland, boring
You just rolled "perfection," and when you consider that at higher levels those rolls are actually quite far away from perfection, which sounds pretty fun to roleplay to me. There's nothing in the rolls, and you have to provide a personality for yourself, but there is so much potential.
I don't know if you could be a good guy with so few flaws, but you could be a fantastic (to use pro wrestling terminology) comedy crybaby heel.
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An AD&D Fighter/Mage/Cleric, clad almost entirely in red, complete with stylish red hat and white plume feather. ;)
(Naturally assuming 18/00 strength also)
Probably an oracle half-elf.
Blackblood.
Maybe... life? Lore? Nature? I dunno. Something like that.
(Yeah, I know this is an opportunity: I just... I just enjoy spellcasters.)
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I would roll a new character, all 18's would bore meas above, re-roll, no challenge and nothing to role-play, bland, boringBecause being effective equals boring. Lol.
Not sure why you feel the need to take shots at people's opinions.
For what it is worth, all 18's to me IS boring. I also feel it overshadows the rest of the party, and additionally overshadows the expected CR matchup method.
The DM will adapt(or not) but all that does is end up with the opposition ramped up to a similar scale to a net no benefit. If i am going to be all 18's and the badguys also be all 18's, i'd rather just have a more normal experience with lower stats.
If the DM is NOT going to scale up, then the character WILL be boring to play for me, because a snooze of a cakewalk and no effort needed is not MY personal goal at the table.
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Well, I'd go with whatever concept I was working on before I rolled, probably.
Barring that I'd find out what the party needed and fill that niche, because let's face it with those stats I can round out whatever is helpful to also be what I want to play.
I would roll a new character, all 18's would bore meas above, re-roll, no challenge and nothing to role-play, bland, boringBecause being effective equals boring. Lol.Not sure why you feel the need to take shots at people's opinions.
For what it is worth, all 18's to me IS boring. I also feel it overshadows the rest of the party, and additionally overshadows the expected CR matchup method.
The DM will adapt(or not) but all that does is end up with the opposition ramped up to a similar scale to a net no benefit. If i am going to be all 18's and the badguys also be all 18's, i'd rather just have a more normal experience with lower stats.
If the DM is NOT going to scale up, then the character WILL be boring to play for me, because a snooze of a cakewalk and no effort needed is not MY personal goal at the table.
I would not call that a "pot-shot" any more than their own posts are "pot-shots" at the OP.
The implication is that the first two don't like it because (like you) they'd think it's boring - this certainly flies in the face of the OP's intended, "let's dream and let dream" vibe, and could be taken as insulting (or "pot-shots"), even if it's not meant to be.
He disagrees and is giving his reasoning. Patronizing, sure - he doesn't see why people would disagree with him.
But that happens all the time.
For the record, it'd be really cool to me. I'd just not have enough skill points. (Never enough skill points. :D)
EDIT: for clarity
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What about a normally untenable (or at least suboptimal) class/ race combination? A nagaji wizard, a fetchling cleric or monk (the latter isn't exactly awful, but the lack of wisdom hurts most monks), a kobold ... anything?
as above, re-roll, no challenge and nothing to role-play, bland, boringYou just rolled "perfection," and when you consider that at higher levels those rolls are actually quite far away from perfection, which sounds pretty fun to roleplay to me. There's nothing in the rolls, and you have to provide a personality for yourself, but there is so much potential.
I don't know if you could be a good guy with so few flaws, but you could be a fantastic (to use pro wrestling terminology) comedy crybaby heel.
What if one were to treat the character's awareness of his or her "perfection" as inducement to forswear the accretion of wealth? Maybe the character never uses stat boosting items or forgoes armor without mechanical benefit.
Ooh! Take templates that weaken you. Young (you're an elf only eighty years old!), hungry (you are a mendicant or your religious beliefs require you to fast; this is bad for a non-melee character), pod-spawned, etc.
More ideas (these ones are sillier): employ the prevalent MAD-reduction feats and class features (e.g., Noble Scion and one of the charisma-to-AC revelations on an oracle), but ensure that you're replacing high stats with "low" stats (in this case, a vanara (+2 DEX, +2 WIS, -2 CHA) would work nicely). Keep permanent ability drain on the "low" stats to reduce them further.
Lets say in a standard game with a standard rolling method, you rolled perfect 18s in every stat. What would you build with it?
I'd ask my GM for permission to reroll, in order to get a character I'll have more fun playing.
one 18 is enough for me. two are fantastic. more than that, though, it would just feel cheap. idk.
that being said, if I had to take all 18s, I'd probably go with a non-caster of some sort. rogue, fighter, barbarian, ranger no-spells archetype, paladin no-spells archetype, monk, etc.
the other thing with rolling all 18s is that you still have the the limitation of not getting enough feats to do everything you want to with those great stats.
edit: also, i'd be inclined to highlight my non-class attributes. if i made a wizard, yeah i'd cast spells, but i'd be more prone to use my quarterstaff in melee. if i made a melee build, i'd be inclined to use ranged weapons and save melee as an ace in the hole. I'd look at it as my class is what my character is best at, but not necessarily what my character enjoys doing most. ....but again, that kind of roleplay is more fun when you actually aren't good at doing what you aren't best at. It's more fun playing a 13 Str wizard using a spear because you can, it's different, and it's purposefully sub-optimal, vs. playing an all-18s wizard using a spear because you're just as good in melee as a 3/4BAB class so why not.
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Champion of Irori! Paladin + Monk + Smite Evil + Smite Chaos + Combat Maneuvers = amazing role-play class with mechanical viability. You can't tell me a selfless, unarmed protector of the innocent doesn't have flavor.
Taking a fun but sub-optimal super-MAD combination and cranking it to max is a great use of all 18s.
Champion of Irori! Paladin + Monk + Smite Evil + Smite Chaos + Combat Maneuvers = amazing role-play class with mechanical viability. You can't tell me a selfless, unarmed protector of the innocent doesn't have flavor.
Taking a fun but sub-optimal super-MAD combination and cranking it to max is a great use of all 18s.
I will call him...Kenshiro.
in part because of his recent picture use on a different thread this week.
I want to roll a whole party. Dwarf Sorcerer, Kobold Fighter, Catfolk Cleric, and a full Orc Ninja. BEST. PARTY. EVER.
It could be fun if the whole party is like that, assuming the CR is adjusted to fit appropriately. A quartet of ubermensch traveling around the world, blowing up anything short of an outsider just by looking at it funny.
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Hmmm... to be Batman or Captain America?
Captain America. Max out skill with that returning throwing Adamantine heavy shield!
Whatever struck my fancy at the moment, or whatever would fit a niche or need the rest of the party doesn't.
Then I'd drop those stats some, 'cause straight 18s are dull and unfair to the rest of the group.
i'd make a trapper ranger 1/wizard[scryer] 1/eldritch knight... play him as bookish but definitely a ranger- build him as a lightly armored switch hitter and actually pretty much never use magic in combat... prepare mostly utility spells and generally take off his armor and make a ritual of casting any spell (and only do it when really necessary).
or maybe an aasimar sohei 1/sorcerer 1/eldritch knight... play him like a normal sorcerer until someone is unfortunate enough to try to force him into melee, lol.
if you really felt bad for your teammates you could make a plumekith inquisitor[trickery] 2/bard 1/mystic theurge... doubling up on 6:9 casting classes obviously is sub-optimal but with all 18s you might be able to get away with it.
or if you never feel bad for anyone ever you could do an aasimar pally 2/sorcerer 1/eldricth knight, with a 4 (or even 8) level dragon disciple dip... use a reach weapon and fight like a reach cleric (with arcane armor feats) until someone closes for melee, then use natural attacks to wreck them.
I just don't get the boring/not-fun comments. Many characters have at or near an 18 in their most important stat anyway. All 18s just helps you to be more well rounded. How is that not fun? If you want to roleplay a disability, you still could without even needing to play an oracle. Say you only have one leg, but you're really good at hopping around on it. :)
Speaking for myself - I want that mechanical weakness too, not just something narrative. I tend not to make well-rounded characters - I enjoy having them depend on others for something.
To answer the original question however, which is something I didn't do and am now out of respect for the OP - quite honestly, I'd make whatever I felt like making at the time. My tastes vary from day to day (sometimes hour to hour!) so whatever I felt like playing that day, I'd make.
I've done all 18s. By the end of session 2 I was bored. I've also had epic 3.5 characters with stats between 48-62 primary and around 20 in the "dump" stat(s). Fun for a while but for me a stage in my gaming career that has come and gone. If I hit a 30 or more in one stat 24 or so in a couple others and 10-16 for the rest, my character is at or near retirement.
Monk (of the four winds and sacred mountain) 4/gunslinger (musket master) 13/fighter (unarmed fighter) 3 with a culverin and a double hackbut (Rapid Reload with both) in an endless bandolier. Also, several of the dragon and genie style feats and social skills.
Other than that... Why bother? There's nothing challenging or even interesting about Mr. Perfect.
Plenty of RP potential in those obscene stats. An all-18 character might think they're descended from a god. They'd have (justifiably) off-the-scale self-confidence. They might assume they have a special purpose and that it's up to them to find it. They could be unaffected by their ubermensch status, or could be tooth-grindingly condescending.
My concern wouldn't be boredom, it would be the risk of screwing up the game's challenge level and/or overshadowing the rest of the group.
(If I were GMing this outrageous character, I'd be tempted to bring in an all-18 nemesis - the "Child of Dark", or Kurgan, something like that, to show what it's like on the receiving end of all those +4s.)
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Well, let's take a look at a starting (1st level) character with all 18s (before racial modifiers), shall we?
Except for the touch AC (18, 19 w/Dodge) and the fact that he has three good saves at +6, he's really not out-of-line for a 1st level character. His normal and flat-footed AC are comparable to someone in armor, his attacks are not as high as a Fighter, Ranger, Barbarian, or Paladin, he has a lot of skills . . . but still not as many as a human Rogue. His Initiative is pretty darn good (+8), but a 1st level Rogue, Bard, or Ninja could beat him if they take the right feat!
Name: Horatius
Class: Monk
Race: Human
Level: 1st
Gender: Male
Height: 5' 11"
Weight: 171 lbs
Hair: Black
Eyes: Blue
Religion: Irori
Alignment: Lawful Good
Strength: 18
Dexterity: 18
Constitution: 18
Intelligence: 20 (+2 human bonus)
Wisdom: 18
Charisma: 18
BAB: +0
Melee Attack (Unarmed Strike or Quarterstaff): +4 (1d6+4/20)
Flurry of Blows (Unarmed Strike or Quarterstaff): +3/+3 (1d6+4/20)
Ranged Attack (Shuriken): +4 (1d2+4/20/10')
Ranged Flurry of Blows (Shuriken): +3/+3 (1d2+4/20/10')
Hit Points: 12 (d8+4)
Speed: 30'
Initiative: +8
Armor Class: 18* (base 10, +4 Dex, +4 Wis)
Flatfooted: 14 (base 10, +4 Wis)
Touch: 18* (base 10, +4 Dex, +4 Wis)
*The Dodge feat will increase these by an additional +1 when activated.
Fort: +6 (+2 base, +4 Con)
Reflex: +6 (+2 base, +4 Dex)
Will: +6 (+2 base, +4 Wis)
Stunning Fist: DC 14; 1/day
Feats (Human bonus and Monk bonus assigned): Deflect Arrows (Monk Bonus Feat), Dodge (Human Bonus Feat), Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist
Skills (Favored Class Bonus and Human bonus assigned): Acrobatics +5, Climb +5, Escape Artist +5, Intimidate +5, Knowledge (History) +6, Knowledge (Religion) +6, Perception +5, Perform (Dance) +5, Sense Motive +5, Stealth +5, Swim +5
Equipment (average starting wealth of 35 gp): Backpack, Bedroll, Belt Pouch (2), Boots (Spare), Chalk (10), Flint & Steel, Hammer, Quarterstaff, Monk's Outfit (Spare), Piton (10), Rope (Hemp, 50'), Sealing Wax, Sewing Needle, Shuriken (25), Signal Whistle, Soap (1 lb), Torches (10), Trail Rations (10 days), Waterskin, 6 gp, 4 sp
Background: No one knows of the parents of Horiatus. As a babe mere weeks old, he was left in the dead of night at the gate of a local monastery; the monks took him in and raised him as their own adopted child. From early on in life, it was apparent that Horatius was special. Keen of mind and strong of body, his wit and charm and dexterity endeared him to the monks who trained and taught him. Many in the community in which he grew to adulthood believed him to be the child of a God . . . in other places, and other times, such adoration could have pushed Horatius to become selfish, intent only on his own personal gain.
But the monks of Irori taught the child well. He learned compassion and empathy alongside of the martial arts for which the Monastery was famed. In his 18th spring, Horatius set forth to discover his purpose in the world . . . and possibly whom his parents actually were (and why he was left on the threshold of the monastery). Eager for adventures to prove his worth (to himself, not others), Horatius hopes to find a cause larger than himself to serve.
I rolled 18, 18, 15, 14, 13, 13 for a barbarian a while back and have been enjoying playing a barbarian with good saves, skills, and Dex while still maintaining the core stats of Str and Con. Bumping everything to 18 would be pretty good...better AC, more attacks of opportunity, better Reflex and Will saves, a ton of skills (Acrobatics, Climb, Intimidate, Knowledge: Nature, Perception, Survival, and probably pick up a trait to get another useful skill or two as class skills). I always enjoy the surprised look on someone's face when they realize that my barbarian is erudite and well-spoken...when he wants to be. Could make use of some of those off-kilter rage powers that rely on dump stats...
That said, I'd probably roll a paladin or a monk with all 18s, or a martially inclined caster of some sort.
I'd make a dragon. Sorcerer into dragon disciple. All stages of the game I would call myself a dragon as well. If allowed I would be a kobold.
most likely whatever the party needed.
but if everything was covered I would likely go bard, pally, or transmuter wizard.
If it were me, I'd try to make a character utilize all of those stats to greatness. So I'd make a crazy multiclassed character. Probably something like a dragon disciple with levels in sorcerer for casting and monk for the martial side. I mean, it would be pretty boss to be a flurrying dragon. Intelligence can help for lack of skills.
this might be the one time you could really pull off an effective bender (from the avatar animated series)...
a water bender would probably be best/easiest:
- Undine, with Hydraulic Maneuver and eventually Quicken SLA for Hydraulic Push
- master of many styles|qinggong monk, with a 1-2 level dip in unarmed fighter- should have the whole marid style by monk 6/fighter 1 and can grab hydraulic push/torrent as ki powers (these are SLAs too, so Quicken can be applied 2/day to push, plus once on the racial). add dragon style for extra unarmed damage, plus scaling elemental fist.
- the build is a little feat starved by take the Eldritch Heritage feats for the marid bloodline.
you'd be super MAD since monks need everything but Int and Cha, and you're adding Cha for eldritch heritage, but with all 18s you could be decent in melee, have decent defenses, have a good number of skills, and be able to do a bunch of cool water bending stuff :)
I'd probably go with a combat cleric
You need Str to hit things
Dex for AC, Ref (bad save), and Init
Con for hp
Int because clerics are saddled with 2+Int skills
Wis for casting
and Cha for Channel
Really, Clerics are some of the MADest classes around if you let them be.