Gambit's page

I once had a bad reaction to a (prescribed) drug: it made me angry all the time. It's one of the experiences that made me realize that free will is not as free or willful as most people think. But it also shaped how I view orcs these days. Orcs were created by their gods to be warriors, they are innately ferocious. When you're angry all the time, it's easy to be chaotic evil. Even if an orc chooses to be lawful or good, they still have to either subsume or refocus that anger. (I suppose one might compare it to the many versions of the Incredible Hulk.)

In the same way humans are the baseline for ability scores, I think of humans as the baseline for alignment. We have both good and evil, lawful and chaotic instincts. Fantasy races with alignment tendencies diverge from "human nature" in meaningful ways. Dwarves don't have as strong a desire for individuality (thus a lawful alignment and a Charisma penalty). Elves live long enough that permanence is less important to them (thus a tendency to chaos). Whether good or evil, by humans standards, goblins never stop being precocious children (and thus devoid of other influences go Lord of the Flies).

Well said David, you have expertly surmised how I view fantasy settings. I think the core of the discussion falls to the age old nature vs nurture debate, and I would say for D&D its generally about 25% nature, 75% nurture.

Firstly, I just want to say really awesome blog piece, it hearkens to a lovely classic feel, a quality that made RotR as popular and everlasting as it has been.

Into the other matter, the culture of a given race is really what the determining factor is. The vast majority of orcs are CE because their culture celebrates and demands that. Now, in the case of an orc baby whos found in the woods and raised at a monastery, well his alignment could be just about anything, because he has been allowed to grow without the demands placed upon him by his racial culture.

Thats really what it all boils down to, demons are always THIS alignment because they are outsiders with an intrinsic creation that specifies such, humanoids aren't bound by such rules, but generally follow the culture of their racial norms. Its also why if you totally deconstruct the monolith, then everything just becomes "Humans with funny X", and thats doing a disservice to good worldbuilding.

Not to be That Guy, but why not just get the pocket edition.

The price is right.

A fair question. Its really just a matter of matching the rest of the collection. I dont own any of the pocket editions.

Don’t get cheaper than “unavailable”.

I'm well aware of its status on the Paizo site. I'm speaking of its accessibility through other avenues. It's usually priced for well over $200.

Yeah, the secondary market prices are outrageous. I just shamelessly sold my collector's edition hardcover for over $300. No doubt the prices will drop once the pocket editions hit the shelves.

Indeed, that is the hope my friend, we shall see.

I hope this release causes the prices of the hardcover to plummet. I was neck deep in 5E land when this came out and never ended up picking up a copy, a mistake I would like to rectify. Here's hoping they will be back down to a reasonable $60 or so after this comes out.

Apologies I never responded to your comment way back when Shalafi, unfortunately that Dragonlance campaign petered out after a few months.

How have you been, having any good Dragonlance adventures?

That goes for anyone else as well, long live the lance!

Upon further contemplation, I have decided that if Paizo addresses the situation, and the feedback therein, and puts together an action plan for a solution to the matter, I will eagerly purchase this book in order to support good positive business practices.

If they choose to stay silent on the matter, or offer only conciliatory regards with no plan of resolution or redevelopment, that will likely draw to a close my 8 year relationship with Paizo and Pathfinder.

I have always celebrated this company for its openness and willingness to converse with its playerbase (especially via forum interactions), but if they ultimately prove unwilling to address things of this nature, it might constitute a shift in company practices to a direction that would deem my future support unwarranted. I hope the opposite will prove true.

This ultimately may mean very little, as I stated in my last post I haven't played Pathfinder in a while, and the last Pathfinder product I purchased was a roughly a year ago. Perhaps the resolution to this and my subsequent purchase of the book would reinvigorate my Pathfinder spirit, after all blazing infernos start from the smallest kindling. But I figured it best to proverbially put my money where my mouth is.

Good day all.

Gambit wrote:

I have been delving into the vast realm of other RPGs of late, trying out more obscure titles like Mythras and The One Ring, as well as playing in a 5E campaign, thus I haven't played Pathfinder in quite a while (nor have I been on these forums in a while either), but I had heard of this warrior shapeshifter class through the grapevine a little while back and the prospect of it made me a bit excited, I thought to myself "that sounds fun, it might be time to fire back up some Pathfinder again".

The book comes out and I happen to be at my FLGS one day, so I pull it off the shelf to peruse (as I always do before a purchase), and flip straight to the Shifter, excited to delve into this new class, this new possibility. And then I read it, and the excitement leaves me, replaced by a sense of apathy, apathy not just for the class, but for any thought of reigniting Pathfinder in my RPG life. I put the book back on the shelf and leave the store with it unpurchased.

Was there melancholy music playing and a Ravenous Tumbleweed rolling behind you as you walked away?

Heh, negative, but I would have loved the symbolism of such an occurrence. I only mentioned it because something random brought me to the site today (I googled something regarding the Card Game), clicked on this thread, read a bit of the feedback, saw someone say something to the effect of "if you dont voice your opinion, you are irrelevant", not a viewpoint I agree with, but figured I would share my experience on the matter nonetheless.

I have been delving into the vast realm of other RPGs of late, trying out more obscure titles like Mythras and The One Ring, as well as playing in a 5E campaign, thus I haven't played Pathfinder in quite a while (nor have I been on these forums in a while either), but I had heard of this warrior shapeshifter class through the grapevine a little while back and the prospect of it made me a bit excited, I thought to myself "that sounds fun, it might be time to fire back up some Pathfinder again".

The book comes out and I happen to be at my FLGS one day, so I pull it off the shelf to peruse (as I always do before a purchase), and flip straight to the Shifter, excited to delve into this new class, this new possibility. And then I read it, and the excitement leaves me, replaced by a sense of apathy, apathy not just for the class, but for any thought of reigniting Pathfinder in my RPG life. I put the book back on the shelf and leave the store with it unpurchased.

Reposting my previous message.

I backed this Kickstarter at the $100 level and added another $85 in add ons (which I never specified, so Im guessing they could be used for whatever you want), but never played as I lost interest in the game direction (I kind of excitedly jumped in at "Pathfinder Video Game" at the time of the KS without really considering that FFA PVP is a game mechanic I just dont enjoy). So anyway I have a fresh account up for sale for any interested parties.

Send me an offer, we'll work something out.

Thanks TOZ.

Kind of a shame actually, I've really gotten into the DCC RPG lately, we had a blast with the character funnel especially, I would definitely have picked this up had it been for their system (plus I am a sucker for box sets, as my 2E AD&D collection attests). Perhaps they will do a Kickstarter to update this at some point.

I'm assuming this is a 3.5 module and not for the DCC RPG, correct?

Vic my good sir, any news on this coming back into stock?

Gambit wrote:

Crafting, Profession, and Performance are all list as "Var" which means it Varies on which is its governing stat. Each one will be based on the individual chosen subskill. For example smithing will be Str based, painting and other forms of artistry will be Dex based, alchemy will be Int based, etc. Same goes for profession, sage will be Int based, farmer will be Wis based, courtesan will be Cha based, etc. As for Performance, singing, acting, comedy, and oratory will all be Cha based, whereas the instrument ones will be Dex based.

I know you're just giving some examples and will probably handle each skill case by case, but I want to argue some your examples.

You're going Str for smithing, but I believe that Int is still the best choice. I am an electrician by trade (not quite the same, I know), and while having strength, agility, and endurance are all helpful, the very best electricians are the smart ones. A good blacksmith would need those same physical qualities, but a truly great blacksmith would need to be smart to master the techniques.

I would also be inclined to keep the Performance skills with Cha. I am also a musician. Fine motor skills are a must, so Dex makes some sense. But when I think about music with beauty, depth, meaning, etc. it comes down more to the ability of the composer of performer to express themselves. You don't need to be able to play the guitar fast to move people. You need to be able to express yourself. Its just that if you have clumsy fingers you probably be able to clearly express yourself. Composing music is also about expression, but intelligence and wisdom would play a factor instead of dexterity.

For Profession, I think there is more room for changing around the ability score, but I would still tend go with Wisdom as a default.

Maybe for some of these skills you assign a single ability score. When the player wants to do something, you think about it for a second and decide which ability score will be used based on the circumstances.

I addressed smithing above good sir, but as for performance, I think you are looking at it just from the perspective of a content creator, and I dont disagree that charisma plays an important aspect in such, but I believe merely playing is based more on those motor skills. And many bards are singing and playing songs that have been around forever, ancient elven ballads, historical dwarven war chants, grand lyrical masterpieces of the old human empire, etc, i.e. stuff they havent created themselves. This is not me trying to disparage musical creativity in the slightest, just provide alternate perspective.

Wait a minute. Smithing is a Strength-based skill? Have you ever seen the Man at Arms: Reforged series? A smithy isn't a muscle-head that whacks a lump of metal until it shaped the way he wants. Smithing is a mixture of art, science, and engineering. A smith has to know metallurgy, the physics of metal, and other technical knowledge.

I was looking at it as the act of attributing skill points into the skill was learning the training/skill aspect of smithing, and being stronger just generally makes the work go more smoothly.

awscott1978 wrote:

I really hope it's Kingmaker because I'm holding off paying $150+ for it in the aftermarket.

PDFs exist!

And sadly do absolutely nothing for a bibliophile.

Pathfinder Unchained has two systems that already consolidate some skills . This may not be overly helpful to you and it does group skills a bit differently.

I am indeed aware of Pathfinder Unchained. :)

I've been going about reworking the Pathfinder skill list, expanding and consolidating some here and there, while keeping things grounded in verisimilitude and internal consistency, and I wanted to share and get some outside opinions on it. I will go over my thoughts on each skill removed and added. First the list:

Acrobatics (Dex) (Armor Check Penalty)
Animal Handling (Wis) (Trained Only)
Arcane Lore (Int) (Trained Only)
Athletics (Str) (Armor Check Penalty)
Crafting (Var)
Cultural Lore (Int) (Trained Only)
Deception (Cha)
Device Handling (Dex) (Trained Only) (Armor Check Penalty)
Engineering (Int) (Trained Only)
Healing (Wis)
Historical Lore (Int) (Trained Only)
Insight (Wis)
Intimidation (Cha)
Linguistics (Int) (Trained Only)
Mercantile (Wis) (Trained Only)
Natural Lore (Int) (Trained Only)
Perception (Wis)
Performance (Var)
Persuasion (Cha)
Planar Lore (Int) (Trained Only)
Profession (Var) (Trained Only)
Religious Lore (Int) (Trained Only)
Riding (Dex)
Sleight of Hand (Dex) (Trained Only) (Armor Check Penalty)
Spellcraft (Int) (Trained Only)
Stealth (Dex) (Armor Check Penalty)
Survival (Wis)

Now I'll go into each skill that got removed or changed and my thoughts behind the process.

Appraise: Folded into a new skill called Mercantile so as to widen its value, Mercantile covers appraising as well as all aspects of running a business and the practices therein.
Bluff and Disguise: Rolled into a single Deception skill.
Climb and Swim: Rolled into a single Athletics skill along with taking jumping from Acrobatics.
Diplomacy: Renamed to Persuasion.
Disable Device: Renamed Device Handling so that it doesn't seem so fixated on only breaking things, but is clear that it can also be used to fix thing or alter things.
Escape Artist: Folded into Acrobatics. Can attempt either an Acrobatics or Athletics check to escape bonds, depending on whether you are trying to slip free or brute force it.
Fly: Folded into Acrobatics (to be honest, this skill doesn't come up very often in our games, we lean somewhat old school and generally handle flying as it was in 3E and earlier, with occasional exceptions).
Knowledge Dungeoneering: This is described as covering "aberrations, caverns, oozes, and spelunking". Aberrations and oozes are moved to Arcane Lore, caverns to Natural Lore, and spelunking to Survival.
Knowledge Geography: Covers "lands, terrain, climate, people", this is divided between Natural Lore and Survival, expect for "people" which goes to Cultural Lore.
Knowledge Local: Renamed Cultural Lore with the intention of broadening its aspects and uses.
Knowledge Nobility: Folded into Cultural Lore.
Knowledge Planes: Renamed Planar Lore, I have pondered on folding this into Religious Lore though (possibly then renaming it to Divine Lore), but I think its probably distinct enough to merit its own skill.
Sense Motive: Renamed to Insight.
Use Magic Device: Folded into Spellcraft, with the exception that if you have the Trapfinding class feature you may use Device Handling to use magical devices (this lets the Rogue keep its classical niche and has the beneficial byproduct of somewhat buffing trapfinding, a feature that some have found lacking).

Other notes:

Crafting, Profession, and Performance are all list as "Var" which means it Varies on which is its governing stat. Each one will be based on the individual chosen subskill. For example smithing will be Str based, painting and other forms of artistry will be Dex based, alchemy will be Int based, etc. Same goes for profession, sage will be Int based, farmer will be Wis based, courtesan will be Cha based, etc. As for Performance, singing, acting, comedy, and oratory will all be Cha based, whereas the instrument ones will be Dex based.
At one point I had Riding folded into Animal Handling but ultimately decided to reseparate the two as they have different primary purposes and are distinct enough to merit it.
Do you like "Natural Lore", "Nature Lore", or "Wilderness Lore" better? I've gone kinda back and forth on this.

Hit me with any feedback or suggestions you may have.

I really want to see Second Darkness get the update and simultaneous fix that JJ was talking about.

Iterative attacks.

I think I'm mostly done with mechanics except for gear. Also unsure about what alignment to go with.

Most Kender, like the vast majority, have a good alignment. They are just a cheery and good hearted people.

Shalafi, are you and I the only good aligned proposed characters thus far?

Hmm, I wonder if I should turn my kender into an umbral blade or a dragon fury eventually or if I should just stick with straight rogue. There aren't many advanced rogue talents that excite me, but I would be giving up sneak attack... Anyone got any thoughts or suggestions either way? The flavor of umbral blade speaks about the dark side of the moon, would that mean the dark evil moon for dragonlance?

You should totally go with Kender Handler. :P

Gambit: Drake Steelwind, ? Male Human (?) Warder (Ordained Defender) 1

Drake Steelwind, LG Male Human (Solamnic) Warder (Ordained Defender) 1

Istar was around but was just a small trading post city.

Indeed, just not the GRAND GOOD HOLY EMPIRE OF ISTAR GOODNESS. :P

Gambit wrote:

I am so down, I want to play Drake Steelwind, a Human Knight of Solamnia, a Warder with the Ordained Defender archetype who multiclasses into Cleric of Paladine or Kiri-Jolith, and later on takes the Battle Templar prestige class.

Would doing Quests of Virtue to progress from Crown Knight to Sword Knight to Rose Knight be a component in the game, or would we not delve into personal sidequests to keep the game flowing?

Est Sularus oth Mithas

Remy!

Hello shalafi my old friend, fancy seeing you here. ;)

Here is a good map of Ansalon before the Cataclysm, the timeframe we are playing in, although this one is from much later, just before the Cataclysm, as I dont believe Istar was around back in the time of the Third Dragon War. You can click on it to zoom in further.

For contrast here is the post Cataclysm map circa the War of the Lance era.

I am so down, I want to play Drake Steelwind, a Human Knight of Solamnia, a Warder with the Ordained Defender archetype who multiclasses into Cleric of Paladine or Kiri-Jolith, and later on takes the Battle Templar prestige class.

Would doing Quests of Virtue to progress from Crown Knight to Sword Knight to Rose Knight be a component in the game, or would we not delve into personal sidequests to keep the game flowing?

Est Sularus oth Mithas

Go with the a versatile warrior/cleric melee badass, Dwarven Ranger 1/Cleric 4/Skyseeker 4. Good skills, good casting, great melee, awesome for this campaign. Use an earthbreaker just for funs.

I backed this Kickstarter at the $100 level and added another $85 in add ons (which I never specified, so Im guessing they could be used for whatever you want), but never played as I lost interest in the game direction (I kind of excitedly jumped in at "Pathfinder Video Game" at the time of the KS without really considering that FFA PVP is a game mechanic I just dont enjoy). So anyway I have a fresh account up for sale for any interested parties.

Human Warblade (adapted to PF as best we could)

Do you guys know about Path of War? Its the Pathfinder update to the Tome of Battle.

Skyseeker also looks like fun. :-)

They reach their true potential in the Giantslayer Adventure Path.

But I think my favorite is the Veiled Illusionist. If you like illusionist characters, this is a must take IMHO.

When I look at these guys I cant help but see the Pathfinder version of an Enchanter from Everquest (which I am totally cool with).

The problem with lack of Britain analogue is, well, Cheliax was Britain, but due to what happened 100 years ago it lost that aspect of itself to become devil-land.

IonutRO wrote:

Jack of Dust wrote:

I'm liking the classes so far. Now to figure out which one I could use to make a Biologist/Physician. The concept I have is very support oriented and hopefully it's doable! :)

Same. I imagine it's an escort archetype.

I assume you mean envoy? "Escort" would probably be a very different class :)

Well, Inara does need class after all. ;)

And I seriously now want a companion (Mal - "whore") archetype for the envoy class.

Absalom: City of Ultimate Adventure hardcover would be a high priority purchase for me, I have always loved fantasy metropolis hub cities, and sourcebooks detailing them.

I wouldn't mind seeing something with Ravenloft-esque themes of horror and madness. (Strange Aeons is a great dip into horror and madness, but it's not quite the same lol)

Carrion Crown is already the semi-Ravenloft homage.

This AP is what I would personally deem "fun, not amazing".

Its no Runelords, or Crimson Throne, or Kingmaker, but more of a solid straightforward middle ground AP that works for what it is.

I have hopes for Ironfang Invasion to be a high quality classic style campaign.

Something tells me Ssalarn has been watching a ton of Lucha Underground lately.

Gambit wrote:

ChaosTicket, you might have better luck posing your query over on the Giant in the Playground forums, they tend to share your mentality of how you view the game, usually being very mechanics/optimization first (everything else second).

Porque?

I dont think there is a Pathfinder section for Order of the Stick.

The 3E/d20 Forum also covers Pathfinder. As you can see on the first page there are several threads that have the Pathfinder tag.

ChaosTicket, you might have better luck posing your query over on the Giant in the Playground forums, they tend to share your mentality of how you view the game, usually being very mechanics/optimization first (everything else second).

Gravity Bow and Instant Enemy alone make Ranger spellcasting awesome, and there are many other greats on there. And take Boon Companion as your level 5 feat and you are equivalent to a Druid on Animal Companion level (and if power is what matters to you, take the Wolf or Small Cat).

As for the Slayer, they are one of my buddies favorite classes, he played a TWF Slayer to deadly efficiency. But anyway, Slayers get access to a great archery archytype, the Sniper, check it out (new version, post errata), its good. But an archery focus on a full BAB class in Pathfinder is stupid good in its own right.

I like the name Templar for a neutral Paladin, but I would probably keep it LN only personally.

Picked him up at my FLGS for Free RPG Day, haven't tried him out yet but he looks very fun.

Btw, on his card he's listed as a Runelords character, but you guys listed him on the website under the Skull and Shackles ACG section. Not a huge deal, but thought you would like to know anyway. ;)

I hate the way 3.X and PF does feats, where there end up being a metric ton of them and 80% of them never see use. One of the few things I really like about 5E is their implementation of feats (not as an either/or with stat increases though, I would keep those independent of each other), where characters get fewer of them, but each one has multiple benefits and is much more versatile. If I could wave my hand and make it where PF used the 5E feat system, I would in a heartbeat.

I'm not advocating for the complete remove of multiple attacks, but diminishing iterative attacks have always been one of my least liked features of the d20 system, going all the way back to the release of 3E in 2000.

I propose using Starfinder as a chance to remove them from the system, instead making multiple attacks where they all operate at your full attack bonus, but there are less of them overall, which also thusly makes them more valuable. Lets say high BAB classes eventually get a total of 3 attacks, with additional ones coming in around levels 7 and 15, and medium BAB get 2, the 2nd of which they get around level 11. Low BAB classes only ever get the 1 attack. Also, TWF only ever gives 1 additional attack.

This seems like it would be a cleaner system, and makes it where each extra attack is a huge boon and truly matters.

I havent used it myself, but from everything I've seen it does indeed solve said issue, or at least goes a long way towards doing so.

Honestly, if they ever make a 2nd edition, I hope they dont just full on "nerf magic", but rather take the approach to make it more nuanced, maybe going AD&D style where magic is somewhat easier to disrupt in combat and some spells have drawbacks or are slightly dangerous to use.

Disclaimer: I have never personally experienced "martial/caster disparity", not saying it doesnt exist for those who have experienced such things, but we've never had a problem with it at our table (although our main DM is extremely good at spotlighting).

Are you playing a home game or PFS, I see no reason why a reasonable home DM wouldnt allow slight tweaking to make this combination work.

I never got a chance to play Red Hand of Doom, I've always heard it was great. I am quite intrigued by this.

Gorbacz, I'm trying to envision what playing a campaign of The One Ring with you would be like.

A Slayer with the Sniper archetype is one of the best ranged/archer characters you can play. That first shot is going to be a doozy and then follow it up with general Pathfinder archery badassery, and make sure you pick up the Ranger Combat Style as slayer talents for extra archery feats. Seems like exactly what you are looking for. Hope this helps.

GM Rednal, are you good with DSP psionics, or should I look at other options for Drake?

Mr Augunas, can I just say that I am a big fan of class names that are actual real words (or at least real-seeming), rather than conjured up amalgamation words.

3.5 was really bad for it (and 4E too, looking at you Shardmind Battlemind), yet Pathfinder has remained (mostly) out of that territory. Paizo is occasionally guilty of it, the foremost notable example being the Bloodrager, but those are really few and far between. This also extends to 3PP, I cant tell you how happy I was when DSP released their Tome of Battle update and we had Stalker, Warder, and Warlord instead of things like Warblade and Swordsage.

If a change is to be made, I think I like the Ritualist name you floated earlier, though I would be interested in seeing the full list of current ideas.