Intimidating Prowess shouldn't exist, and you should be able to use STR instead of CHA.
I could see Intimidate using almost any stat. A display of strength, agility, or toughness can all be just as intimidating.
Intimidating Prowess shouldn't exist, and you should be able to use STR instead of CHA.I could see Intimidate using almost any stat. A display of strength, agility, or toughness can all be just as intimidating.
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+1Intimidating Prowess shouldn't exist, and you should be able to use STR instead of CHA.I could see Intimidate using almost any stat. A display of strength, agility, or toughness can all be just as intimidating.
On the one hand, I get the 'common sense' argument for Charisma being a function of Intimidate.
But from a game play perspective, why screw fighters over on the one social provision they should excel at?
+1Intimidating Prowess shouldn't exist, and you should be able to use STR instead of CHA.I could see Intimidate using almost any stat. A display of strength, agility, or toughness can all be just as intimidating.
On a mostly unrelated note, I did rather like that the Iron Kingdoms RPG ran all social skills that way (that game system has no Charisma or equivalent stat, obviously). I rather liked the way that system worked, especially since it also eliminated the problem of social stats/abilities being something you either have a face specialize in, or ignore completely. I also found that approach really encouraged roleplay, since pretty much every character could find some useful ways of applying their stats to a relevant social skill.
Prone Shooter
Elemental Focus
Strike Back
Combat Patrol
I'm sure there are many other bad ones that shouldn't even be in the game.
Pinning Knockout
Chokehold
All the Earth Child feats
Stabbing Shot
I think the reason Intimidate uses Cha is because you don't make a check to intimidate with Str. You chop a dude's best friend in half and he can decide for himself if you're scary or not. Intimidate with Cha is a more...socially acceptable way of threatening people. Usually.
Wouldn't it be cool if some skills let you use either/or and pick between some skill checks? That would be pretty awesome imo and help in situations where a skill really could use two.
Side note; You actually can intimidate someone by cutting someone else in half. It still uses charisma, requires no intimidate, you have to wait until 11th level, and it requires power attack and furious focus and uses either. On the upside, you can intimidate the guy you ripped in half while he's dying, which is pretty awesome.
I think the reason Intimidate uses Cha is because you don't make a check to intimidate with Str. You chop a dude's best friend in half and he can decide for himself if you're scary or not. Intimidate with Cha is a more...socially acceptable way of threatening people. Usually.
Doing things like bending a metal bar would be an Intimidate check using Strength. What you describe is 'making an attack'.
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Glancing at this thread, I'm beginning to wonder, what should be a feat?
Combat Patrol
I like this one, actually. >.>
At first I thought this was a real thread. I mean you were all going in the direction of getting rid of ALL the feats (it would make the game a lot less difficult) but then I realized it was a Joke Thread. Thanks guys, you made my day!
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This thread, shorter: Anything you want to do you should be able to do without having to take a feat.
Sheesh. I can see arguments in favor/against some of the staple feats, but really -- if you're going to have a feat system, it needs to be a feat system.
A lot of the dopey feats from splatbooks, sure, OK, they don't deserve to exist and took up space that could have held an actually useful, interesting feat. I think they've gotten better about this: look at the feats in ARG for example -- many of them are worth taking, generally at least one per race if not more.
By the way, someone earlier in the thread said that Weapon Finesse requires a +1 BAB. It does not. That feat has not prerequisites, not even a particular DEX score.
By the way, someone earlier in the thread said that Weapon Finesse requires a +1 BAB. It does not. That feat has not prerequisites, not even a particular DEX score.
He was probably thinking of Weapon Focus.
By the way, someone earlier in the thread said that Weapon Finesse requires a +1 BAB. It does not. That feat has not prerequisites, not even a particular DEX score.He was probably thinking of Weapon Focus.
I'm guessing that's an 3.x complaint that got carried into PF, even while it's no longer true.
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I know this one is controversial, but I absolutely abhor the Crane wing feat. The feat is poorly worded and just about nullifies the only way a lot of monsters can hurt someone. After seeing the feat in action throughout my Jade regent Campaign I decided to ban it from my games.
Glancing at this thread, I'm beginning to wonder, what should be a feat?
A feat should be scaling. TWF shouldn't be 3 feats to be subpar. They shouldn't have prereqs that don't have anything to do with what you do(like deadly carnage), and they shouldn't have restrictions that don't make sense(like bewildering Koan being gnome only). In PF there aren't many good feats like that. A good feat ends up being something like extra rage power, because you can actually get a scaling ability out of it. Gosh its easier to complain than give an example...
If I remember correctly 5th edition was moving towards big awesome scaling feats, but I'm not involved with it at all to know myself.
I know this one is controversial, but I absolutely abhor the Crane wing feat. The feat is poorly worded and just about nullifies the only way a lot of monsters can hurt someone. After seeing the feat in action throughout my Jade regent Campaign I decided to ban it from my games.
Its not that complicated. Immediate action to negate one melee attack. Its only overpowered if you only fight T-Rexes. Its actually closer to the awesome sort of things a melee should do. The alternative is we all stick with dodge... +1 AC, woohoo?
I gotta say that I disagree with you on the matter of weapon finesse. With Agile-enchantment you get dex for damage, so with out the feat you are just one enchantment away from having a stat that will give you attack and damage for melee, attack and damage for ranged, armor and better reflex save...
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Weapon Proficiency: My god are these things terrible feats. I could *MAYBE* see spending one skillpoint for proficiency in a new weapon. But a feat? Totally unreasonable for a feat to give you a single weapon proficiency. If you want to use a weapon you can't, your best bet is basically always to dip into another class. I don't think I know anyone who takes weapon feats. yuck.
I have added them as Traits. One Trait is "Martial Weapon Traits" that gives proficiency in two Martial weapons, the other is "Exotic Weapon Trait" which gives proficiency in a single Exotic weapon. The Additional Traits Feat is a feat is great because now you can get two Exotic Weapon proficiencies, or four Martial Weapon proficiencies, for a Feat.
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I'm gonna say Agile shouldn't exist rather than Wepon Finesse shouldn't apply automatically.
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Because I like these gripey lists (they fill me with ideas for houserules for my games);
What are some feats that shouldn't be?
I'm looking for feats that should be baked in mechanics that are just available by default, feats that suck, feats that are a crappy taxed milestone in order to get to another feat (terrible feat prereqs), that sort of thing.
I'll start this off with:
Weapon Finesse: This should seriously just be a property on the weapons it applies to, period.
Antagonize: This feat strips away something characters should just be able to do.
Weapon Proficiency: My god are these things terrible feats. I could *MAYBE* see spending one skillpoint for proficiency in a new weapon. But a feat? Totally unreasonable for a feat to give you a single weapon proficiency. If you want to use a weapon you can't, your best bet is basically always to dip into another class. I don't think I know anyone who takes weapon feats. yuck.
Power Attack: No feat should be this powerful.
Because I like these gripey lists (they fill me with ideas for houserules for my games);
What are some feats that shouldn't be?
All of them.
Only agree with a few so far - the rest (even Spell Focus(Conjuration) *w/out* Augment Summoning) I've taken or would take:
Strike Back (Most people agree could be a default option)
Rime Spell/Clustered Shot - too powerful
I have seen *very* few "must have" feats. I even have a 9th level fighter (Str-based) who still hasn't bothered with Power Attack - other more effective & flavorful options.
Even Martial Weapon Proficiency is a useful feat for non-warrior classes with exotic racial weapons. Considering some exotic weapons are close to a size-bumped or keened martial weapon, it's worthwhile.
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I think the reason Intimidate uses Cha is because you don't make a check to intimidate with Str. You chop a dude's best friend in half and he can decide for himself if you're scary or not. Intimidate with Cha is a more...socially acceptable way of threatening people. Usually.
I'll make em an offer they can't refuse.
OK, quick, think up some more! I'm taking up massive feat reworks as my next pet project. Going to limit myself to combat feats only initially.
Lunge is to powerful. With cleave chain or whirlwind attack it can be abused. It gives you reach.
To me it sounds like lunge would give one single attack with reach. You know like in the movies. The good guy lunges get cut on the arm but still stabs the bag guy in the guts.
just my 2 cents worth
All of them.Because I like these gripey lists (they fill me with ideas for houserules for my games);
What are some feats that shouldn't be?
I have to say that your dislike of feats is kind of amusing to me. Maybe I just imagine Oscar the Grouch saying it. :D While I find your viewpoint odd, it is still valid so that is fine. Personally I thought that feats were the one of the best parts that 3rd edition brought to gaming. That said I had plenty of fun gaming without them for about two decades before 3rd edition showed up.
There is a supplement by Total Party Kill Games that is called Feats Reforged. I really like the additions that they have made to many feats. I bring this up because it might be worth looking into if you are dissatisfied with the feats in their official format.
You're absolutely right, Zhayne. I didn't state my assumption that you'll actually be using those channels to heal in combat. Good catch. I agree that it's not an obvious choice for post-combat healers.I disagree with this, generally speaking. For a channel-focused or healing-focused build with all the bells and whistles, sure, but for most clerics, who do their healing post-combat, it's not that useful.
Selective Channeling (I actually kind of like the RP situation of knowing you can heal your allies...but by healing your enemies, too, but since it IS an option, you are an idiot if your cleric doesn't take this)
I take this Feat for my Negative Energy Offensive Channeling Clerics. Tag on the effects of my Shatter Resolve Feat to create a decent Blast/Debuff that scales quite nicely, without being overpowered.
OK, quick, think up some more! I'm taking up massive feat reworks as my next pet project. Going to limit myself to combat feats only initially.
I'm watching this thread in the hopes that a pdf will pop up with a list of reworked core feats.
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I'm surprised this hasn't been stated yet: Dimensional Assault. This is, quite possibly, the longest feat chain in the game and yet it has some truly stupid individual steps. All Dimensional Assault does over it's prereq feat, Dimensional Agility, is let you charge instead of move/standard action to attack or do whatever else. On top of that, it's worthless in anything but relative close quarters because the max charge distance with this teleport is set to twice your normal speed. Yet, this VERY poorly thought-out feat is a prereq for Dimensional Dervish/Savant/Maneuvers because god forbid a monk complete the feat chain before 19th level. =(
Update: Almost 20% done, just finished with the letter C (and all the feats that build off the feats that start with A, B and C).
Slow day at work FTW!
Before I continue, I want to share a couple of feats with you guys, see if you like the direction I'm going, so that I can fix stuff before I go too far...
Pinpoint Poisoner
You deftly use specially prepared needles to apply poison for maximum effect.
Prerequisites: Poison use class feature, Craft (alchemy) 3 ranks, Heal 3 ranks Adder Strike.
Benefit: Instead of using Adder Strike, you can use a poisoned blowgun dart to more accurately and efficiently deliver poisons as you strike your opponent in melee. Drawing such a dart is a swift action. The DC of any poison delivered this way increases by +1, +2 if the attack results in a critical hit. The dart itself does not increase your melee damage, and the attack dan deal non-lethal or even no damage with no penalty.
Blind Fight
You are skilled at attacking opponents that you cannot clearly perceive.
Prerequisites: Perception 1 rank.
Benefit: In melee, every time you miss because of concealment (see Combat), you can reroll your miss chance percentile roll one time to see if you actually hit. An invisible attacker gets no advantages related to hitting you in melee. That is, you don't lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn't get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible. The invisible attacker's bonuses do still apply for ranged attacks, however.
You do not need to make Acrobatics skill checks to move at full speed while blinded.
Special: If you have 5 ranks in Perception, your melee attacks ignore the miss chance for less than total concealment. You may still reroll your miss chance percentile roll for total concealment. If you successfully pinpoint an invisible or hidden attacker within 30 feet, that attacker gets no advantages related to hitting you with ranged attacks. That is, you don’t lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn’t get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible.
If you have 10 ranks in Perception, your melee attacks ignore the miss chance for less than total concealment, and you treat opponents with total concealment as if they had normal concealment (20% miss chance instead of 50%). You may still reroll a miss chance percentile roll as normal. If you successfully pinpoint an invisible or hidden attacker, that attacker gets no advantages related to hitting you with ranged attacks, regardless of the range. That is, you don’t lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn’t get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible.
Charge of the Righteous
You charge undead and fiends with confidence in your righteous cause.
Prerequisites: BAB +1.
Benefit: When you charge an undead creature or an evil outsider, you do not take the –2 penalty for charging.
Special: When your BAB increases to +6, you gain an additional +2 bonus to attack and damage while performing a charge of the righteous, and a +2 bonus to AC against the target of your charge. This continues to increase by +2 at BAB +11 and +16.
Cleave
You can strike two adjacent foes with a single swing.
Prerequisites: Str 13, BAB +1.
Benefit: As a standard action, you can make a single attack at your full BAB against a foe within reach. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is also within reach. You can only make one additional attack per round with this feat. When you use this feat, you take a –2 penalty to your Armor Class until your next turn.
Special: When your BAB increases to +6, you can take another additional attack against another adjacent target that is also within reach and has not been attacked by you in this turn. The number of targets and attacks continues to increase by 1 at BAB +11 and +16.
Cleaving Finish
When you strike down an opponent, you can continue your swing into another target.
Prerequisites: Cleave.
Benefit: If your melee attack drops a target to 0 or fewer hit points, your attack action immediately becomes a cleave.
Cleave Through
You are ferocious at hewing lesser opponents.
Prerequisites: Cleave, BAB +11.
Benefit: When using Cleave or Great Cleave, you may make a single 5-foot step as a free action before making your additional attacks. If doing so places a creature within your threatened area, that creature becomes a legal target for your additional Cleave attack(s) as long as it meets all the other prerequisites.
Special: When your BAB increases to +16, you can make a 10-foot step instead.
Improved Combat Maneuver
You are skilled at applying a specific combat maneuver. You can select this feat multiple times, but the effects do not stack; each time you do so, choose another maneuver to improve.
Benefit: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when performing the selected combat maneuver. In addition, you receive a +2 bonus on checks made to execute that maneuver, and a +2 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense against that same type of maneuver.
Special: When your BAB increases to +11, the CMB and CMD bonus increases by another +2.
Greater Combat Maneuver
Your masterful execution of a particular combat maneuver grants you increased bonuses. You can select this feat multiple times, but the effects do not stack; each time you do so, choose another maneuver to improve.
Prerequisites: Improved Combat Maneuver (see text), BAB +4
Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on CMB and CMD with the selected combat maneuver that you already have the Improved Combat Maneuver feat for, and you gain an additional bonus depending on the selected maneuver:
Bull rush: Bull rushed foes provoke attacks of opportunity from all of your allies (but not you).
Dirty trick: The penalty lasts for 1d4 rounds, plus 1 round for every 5 by which your attack exceeds the target’s CMD, and removing the condition requires the target to spend a standard action.
Disarm: Disarmed weapons land 15 feet away from your target, in a random direction.
Drag: Dragged foes provoke attacks of opportunity from all of your allies (but not you).
Grapple: Maintaining the grapple becomes a move action. This feat allows you to make two grapple checks each round (to move, harm, or pin your opponent), but you are not required to make two checks. You only need to succeed at one of these checks to maintain the grapple.
Overrun: Foes knocked prone provoke attacks of opportunity.
Reposition: Repositioned foes provoke attacks of opportunity from all of your allies (but not you).
Steal: Foe does not realize an item has been stolen until it tries to find it.
Sunder: You can freely divide the damage of a sunder attempt between the item and the wielder.
Trip: Tripped foes provoke attacks of opportunity.
Maneuver Strike
Your critical hits can initiate combat maneuver checks. You can select this feat multiple times, but the effects do not stack; each time you do so, choose another maneuver to trigger by a critical strike. Only one maneuver can be triggered by a critcal hit. You may choose to use this feat after you make your confirmation roll.
Prerequisites: Improved Combat Maneuver (see text), BAB +7.
Benefit: Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee attack, you can try to attempt a particular combat maneuver, in addition to the normal damage dealt by the attack. If you confirm your critical, you get the free CMB check to execute the combat maneuver that you have the Improved Combat Maneuver feat for.
There, that's a neat enough sample...
The neat thing about Intimidating Prowess is that it lets you add Strength *and* Charisma for intimidate. It's like a better Skill Focus if you're set up right.
If you have a Strength score of 18 or above and are less than 10th level, then sure. But Characters with that kind of strength are likely to have less than stellar Charisma scores anyway (unless they're Paladins) so I think it all works out about even.
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Any "pay twice" feats.
So Power Attack/Combat Expertise/Cleave/Lunge, where you take a penalty for a bonus. Those shouldn't be feats they should be options.
This goes double for Metamagic feats. Paying a feat slot AND a higher level spell slot AND (if you're spontaneous) increased casting time? These should be options not feats.
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Intimidating Prowess shouldn't exist, and you should be able to use STR instead of CHA.I could see Intimidate using almost any stat. A display of strength, agility, or toughness can all be just as intimidating.
I know this was done in the Conan RPG from Mongoose Publishing. I forget exactly which book it was, but a rule allowed for any stat to be used for an Intimidate skill check.
Strength - Scare them with your giant muscles.
Dexterity - Overawe them with your grace.
Constitution - Tower over them with your enormous bulk.
Wisdom - I forget...
Intellect - Forcing them to see how insignificant they are?
The details of the flavor escape me, but it was a very cool rule.
Weapon Proficiency: My god are these things terrible feats. I could *MAYBE* see spending one skillpoint for proficiency in a new weapon. But a feat? Totally unreasonable for a feat to give you a single weapon proficiency. If you want to use a weapon you can't, your best bet is basically always to dip into another class. I don't think I know anyone who takes weapon feats. yuck.
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Any "pay twice" feats.
So Power Attack/Combat Expertise/Cleave/Lunge, where you take a penalty for a bonus. Those shouldn't be feats they should be options.
The problem with that is option paralysis. If everyone, monsters included, have these options all the time it'll bog the game down even more than already happens.
Those are combat feats, and so principally directed at the fighter. If you remove them, do you remove his feat slots?
The problem with that is option paralysis. If everyone, monsters included, have these options all the time it'll bog the game down even more than already happens.
Spell casters.
Those are combat feats, and so principally directed at the fighter. If you remove them, do you remove his feat slots?
And that doesn't make sense! Removing a few feats everyone takes/gets used as prereqs/ are 'pay twice' doesn't mean your removing every combat feat.
Any "pay twice" feats.
So Power Attack/Combat Expertise/Cleave/Lunge, where you take a penalty for a bonus. Those shouldn't be feats they should be options.
The problem with that is option paralysis. If everyone, monsters included, have these options all the time it'll bog the game down even more than already happens.
Those are combat feats, and so principally directed at the fighter. If you remove them, do you remove his feat slots?
I agree with Mudfoot that having a lot of attack options could be crippling to newer players. I have enough problems with casters at higher levels.
But I also agree with Dudemeister. Feats that give minuses for bonuses just add more math and don't feel like a boon no matter how useful they are. They feel like attack options that everyone should be able to do, in fact some of them are just exaggerated versions of combat options that already exist.
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Any "pay twice" feats.
So Power Attack/Combat Expertise/Cleave/Lunge, where you take a penalty for a bonus. Those shouldn't be feats they should be options.
The problem with that is option paralysis. If everyone, monsters included, have these options all the time it'll bog the game down even more than already happens.
Those are combat feats, and so principally directed at the fighter. If you remove them, do you remove his feat slots?
I am aware of option paralysis as a problem.
But a simple rule that says: -1 attack is worth: +2 AC or +2 damage.
Just remove "fight defensively" entirely. It seems pretty easy to remember.
I wouldn't remove the fighter's feat slots, I'd just let him take better feats (that he automatically qualifies for). Is Improved Trip truly broken without Combat Expertise?
Combat expertise as a prereq for maneuvers is silly.
But if the options should be standard for everyone, it raises the possibility of feats for improved versions of PA, CE, DA, Cleave, etc. So while the current feats might be numerically wrong, they should IMHO be feats.
Combat expertise as a prereq for maneuvers is silly.
But if the options should be standard for everyone, it raises the possibility of feats for improved versions of PA, CE, DA, Cleave, etc. So while the current feats might be numerically wrong, they should IMHO be feats.
Can you explain that logic? I don't think its about being numerically wrong as much as it is that everyone gets them so they aren't really options. Options are good! Fake options am bad.
I am saddened by the lack of comments so far.
Here, have some more spoilers.
Vital Strike
You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.
Prerequisites: BAB +6.
Benefit: As a standard action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage equal to your base attack bonus. This bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit, but added to the total.
Death Or Glory
Even when facing a larger foe, you aren’t afraid to take great risks in order to finish the fight.
Prerequisites: Vital Strike.
Benefit: Against a creature of size Large or larger, you can make a Vital Strike attack and gain a +4 bonus to attack, damage, and critical confirmation rolls. After you resolve your attack, you provoke an attack of opportunity from your target, even if that target was flat-footed. You must declare that you are using this feat before your attack roll. This bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit, but added to the total.
Special: When your BAB increases to +11, the bonus to attack, damage, and critical confirmation rolls increases to +5. When your BAB increases to +16, the bonus to attack, damage, and critical confirmation rolls increases to +6.
Devastating Strike
Pitting all of your strength and resolve against your enemy, you deliver a strike that is impossible to ignore.
Prerequisites: Vital Strike, BAB +8.
Benefit: The damage bonus from Vital Strike and Death Or Glory is multiplied on a critical hit.
Improved Power Attack
You can make exceptionally deadly melee attacks by sacrificing accuracy for strength.
Prerequisites: Str 13, BAB +1.
Benefit: When using the power attack option, you gain a +2 bonus to all melee damage rolls for every -1 penalty you take on your attack. This bonus is increased to +3 when you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage remains +1 if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon.
Normal: If your BAB is +1 or greater, you can use power attack to increase your damage by sacrificing accuracy. While doing this, you take a -1 penalty to your attack roll and gain a +1 bonus to your damage roll. When your BAB increases to +4 and every +4 thereafter, the attack penalty increases by -1 and the damage bonus increases by +1. You must choose to use this option before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
Ranged Power Attack
You can make exceptionally deadly ranged attacks by pinpointing a foe's weak spot, at the expense of making the attack less likely to succeed.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, BAB +1.
Benefit: When using the power attack option with a ranged or thrown weapon, you gain a +2 bonus to all melee damage rolls for every -1 penalty you take on your attack. This bonus to damage remains +1 if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon.
Normal: If your BAB is +1 or greater, you can use power attack to increase your damage by sacrificing accuracy. While doing this, you take a -1 penalty to your attack roll and gain a +1 bonus to your damage roll. When your BAB increases to +4 and every +4 thereafter, the attack penalty increases by -1 and the damage bonus increases by +1. You must choose to use this option before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
Finesse Power Attack
You make a combination of quick strikes, sacrificing accuracy for multiple, minor wounds that prove exceptionally deadly.
Prerequisites: Weapon Finesse, BAB +1.
Benefit: When using the power attack option with a light weapon, you gain a +2 bonus to all melee damage rolls for every -1 penalty you take on your attack. This bonus to damage remains +1 if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon.
Normal: If your BAB is +1 or greater, you can use power attack to increase your damage by sacrificing accuracy. While doing this, you take a -1 penalty to your attack roll and gain a +1 bonus to your damage roll. When your BAB increases to +4 and every +4 thereafter, the attack penalty increases by -1 and the damage bonus increases by +1. You must choose to use this option before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
Weapon Finesse
You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.
Benefit: With a light weapon, elven curve blade, rapier, whip, spiked chain, or natural weapons of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.
Special: When your BAB increases to +4 and while using the weapons that qualify for this feat, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on damage rolls as well. Qualifying weapons that have a one and a half Strength modifier on damage, however, are limited to your full Dexterity modifier.