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Thanks, the breakdown on the page did make a lot of sense (seeing as they CAN keep trying to knock the door down until they succeed).


If the PCs encounter a door, can they attempt to break it (strength check) whilst taking 20? They're not in combat and can take a few minutes.

I'm aware they can benefit from aid another as well on this, but can they also gain the benefit of aid another while attempting to break the door down? I remember reading on the aid another section in the core rulebook that you can't take 10 on aid another, but I don't know if you can aid another whilst HE'S taking 10 or 20.


Thanks for the advice guys, the failing forward idea is definitely a good idea. There are two combat encounters that are necessary for advancing the investigation forward, but if the players were to bungle both checks, the investigation would've come to a standstill. There WAS mention of an outbreak occurring in a matter of days if unchecked, but I hadn't considered that perhaps that may actually have been the fail safe in place.


I'm running an adventure in a few days and I had a nagging thought. What if the players fail the checks in the adventure? It's an investigation and if they fail checks due to unlucky rolls, the story would end up going nowhere (it's the first adventure in gallows of madness). Any thoughts on how to redirect them?


Max out strength, get the weapon proficiency feat that lets you treat a bastard sword as an exotic weapon and thus one handed, now get an OVERSIZED bastard sword, get vital strike, power attack, and convince your DM to use the death by massive damage optional rule. Oh, also permanency enlarge on yourself as soon as possible. And see if you can permanency bull's strength. Take one level barbarian for rage, take a wizard level specializing in...transmutation? The one that lets you permanently raise an ability score by +1, choose strength. After that, take the fighter archetype that seems to focus on two-handed weapons, as they get a more powerful version of power attack and the ability to double their strength modifier on two-handed weapons.

With the death by massive damage optional rule, you won't need to rely on rolling 20s so much.


Yorien wrote:
cmastah wrote:
Is a quasit's cause fear ability per single target or crowd? Because in one adventure module it says a quasit uses its cause fear ability and then tangles with whoever's still standing.
Bestiary states 1/day, 30ft radius,

Thanks, I'd seen that but I wanted to make sure it wasn't the maximum range of the ability.


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Lol, awesome breakdown, thanks!


Can you aid another in:

Diplomacy checks
Perception check to taste a potion to find out what it does
Spellcraft check to know what a magic item does
Knowledge check to impress an NPC
Appraise an item
Heal checks to help someone other than yourself and the healer
Strength checks to break things

Also, which of these would allow more than one person to aid another?


Thanks, I'm surprised about the AoO provoking an AoO from the original fellow but it's good to know the ruling.

Thanks for the help!


Is a quasit's cause fear ability per single target or crowd? Because in one adventure module it says a quasit uses its cause fear ability and then tangles with whoever's still standing.


There WERE crates in the area....I think I'll allow them a strength check to topple one over and smush them. Swarms may be immune to weapon damage, but a giant crate ought to be a different matter.


If character A starts to move away or use a maneuver without the appropriate feat, and character B makes an AoO but the AoO is a maneuver without the appropriate feat (like trip), does character A get an AoO against character B for that?

Also can you use a splash weapon for your AoO? What about if the enemy is in melee distance? If he smacks the foe with an acid flask (if he has to, to get to use the item) as an improvised weapon, could he apply the damage that way?

Also, if a wizard is TRIPPED while casting, how does that affect the concentration check? As there is no damage, does the DC simply become 10 + 0 (trip) + level of spell?


Thanks for the suggestions guys (adventure is tomorrow though I highly doubt we'll get as far as the first swarm as it's so late game), I think I'll both nerf the swarm and increase possible ways of fighting it (revealing FAR after I get them hooked on PF how a fight with a swarm is supposed to go). The final fight looks harrowing enough to give them their challenge.

They're first time PF players (except for one of them, although he doesn't like PF because of the many numbers, although at level 1 that's almost a non-existent issue, and as they level up they'll hopefully get the hang of the system) and I don't want to scare them off, especially by putting them in a situation where they're low on options.

The flaming torch idea DID sound awesome.....but then Ferious thankfully brought up the resistance issue. I actually looked up several gallows of madness threads and was surprised to discover one thread that actually had a funny insect repellent item they were using.

But yeah, they're definitely not PFS players and I seriously, SERIOUSLY want to get them hooked on PF. I'll nerf that encounter by reducing touch AC, they already deal an automatic 1d6 damage plus poison, that's harrowing enough.


Okay, so here's the thing:

I'm going to hopefully be running gallows of madness tomorrow for my players BUT...one of the players just professed a desire to run an inquisitor who's all about the bluff/intimidate. He's passionate about it and I'm expecting a very antagonistic/hard-headed/zealous character in an adventure that has most social encounters using either diplomacy or knowledge checks, and one offering a strength check possibility and one with an intelligence check possibility. I literally only saw one encounter where bluff or intimidate would do the trick.

I'm a newbie DM running an adventure module, should I be trying to accommodate or just have the NPCs crack down on someone trying to intimidate or bluff them? A successful bluff check against one specific NPC would end up sending them straight to the required location and bypass a whole host of social encounters and two combat encounters, effectively cutting maybe a quarter or half of the whole adventure. Take away the large portion of those social encounters and the adventure minimizes real fast. Gallows of madness has two follow up adventures but I am not prepped for them (haven't read them at all, and I'm a slow reader).

Should I recommend that he 'slow down' and put an eye to diplomacy and knowledge checks or have NPCs crack down on him or....is there some way to work with/around this?


Thanks, will be running this adventure tomorrow. That last fight looks to be brutal (especially with less than the expected four players).


Thanks guys, one of my players is going with the level 1 pregen Valeros as his character and will have a +4 attack roll with the splash weapon. The players are fresh to pathfinder, so I'll give them some advice and maybe recommend that they seriously think about using the aid another action to help him here (there will be three players most likely. The module says it's for four players but the fourth is indisposed indefinitely), maybe against the swarm I'll recommend they seriously think about having the other two players aid another whoever is going to throw the splash weapon for the highest possible attack bonus.

None of these guys have played PF before (they play 5e), so for any possibly tricky fights (like against the swarm) I'll give some advice about preparing ahead (maybe a heads up that they're in the last area of the adventure and what they ought to stock up on).


How would one go about dealing with a swarm? I rarely DM and will be DMing gallows of madness tomorrow and there will a few swarms. I know splash weapons are extremely useful but the touch AC of a spider swarm is 17. Throwing a splash weapon at a grid intersection would only deal splash damage to the surrounding squares (which if I'm correct, is only 1 point of damage). Are there other methods aside from splash weapons in case the players finish out their splash weapons?

If a swarm envelopes a character, would throwing a splash damage weapon on yourself also affect the swarm?

In gallows of madness, there are also wands, scrolls and potions. How would 1st level players (without access to special scrolls or wands) identify what each of these does?


So...the demon bile....if it's ingested, I see how to treat it, but does it do anything if merely touched?

For the traps in the first adventure, should I prompt a perception check or should I let them choose to search? Some of these locations are so innocuous it's unlikely the players would choose to search themselves (though then again it would keep them on their toes if they weren't prompted).

Also when the fight against Gellion is over, it says 'IF the apprentices are still alive'. Is this up to DM fiat or is there something that is calculated/rolled over the duration of the fight?


Think of it this way:

They have systems in place, it's not a jungle.

In the abyss, home of chaotic evil demons, you're prey. You're everything's prey.

In the....whatever place kytons are from, you're a specific kyton's canvas. Most other kytons would probably cringe to even work upon a worked upon canvas, kind of like an artist being asked to paint his masterpiece on someone else's painting.

EDIT: They're monsters, but they believe in a strict system and order. They don't want anarchy. Devils also don't want anarchy, which is why we have Cheliax.


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Water would be scarce and probably a valuable commodity, you could have kasatha water raiders who rob and kill travelers for their water for themselves and also to sell.

Vegepygmies who also kill travelers and maybe even fight with the kasatha for water to keep what small vestiges of plant life alive. Maybe they even live underground in carefully tended gardens where they expose the plants to short periods of light and then cover them up against the harsh environment.

Undead cities absolutely thriving in the brutal environment, possibly offering some nightmarish semblence of law and mercy in the wastes. Blood is the currency of staying the night (either hitpoint cost per day for stay, or constitution damage per day, meaning the required constant care of a healer working overtime for all party members. Think of the hitpoint cost or constitution DAMAGE (not drain) as a similar effect to something like a giant mosquito being attached to your character and drinking blood). I suggest constitution damage over hitpoints, as clerics can easily fix hitpoint loss every day. The most dangerous creatures here would be the living who don't want to pay the cost themselves but take it from someone else, perhaps they've even paid the cost a lot and their bodies are emaciated and weakened and they're desperate not to have to pay the cost themselves. Because of the security of the place, they'd rather stay here and murder visitors than go back to the wastes.

Stone mimics that take on the form of shade giving rocks. Every time players seek shelter in the wastes, there's a percentage chance they sought it out next to one of these.

Oases ruled by constructs created by beings from the elemental plane of water who are usually tended to by beings from the elemental plane of water who tend to the constructs in shifts. Their plan is to return all water on mars back to the elemental plane. They go out on raids and one construct tends to be more powerful than a roving band of kasathas or vegepygmies. Essentially a promise of death when one sees them coming, they kill whoever possesses the water to take it back.


You monsters, you want to kill Death? And his horse Binky too?!

Susan will have no one left!


I don't mind starting at level 1, but only if I can ever see higher levels. My old DM tends to have long, LONG running campaigns that never see over level 3 so......

I think he had one for his usual group that might have gone as high up as 6......


I think the project could come under fire due to a mensa et thoro, should Hasbro choose to file a motion under the mens rea act of 1997 enacted under President Bill Carter. In this specific case, there's also the matter pertaining to registered trademarks protected under felo de se pertaining to the nominated nominal nominee whose local offshore accounts would be subjected to asset freezing under the copyright registration act of 2002 enacted under president George Obama that states that all proprietary commissions writ large are to be subjected to a thorough enactment of habeas corpus. Subsection 21 of section 7 under clause A limits a defendant's right to de bonis asportatis, subjecting the defendant to a prosecution as per Semper Fidelio, causing punitive damages in excess of no more than $100,000, seven years in jail, and attending at least three of my kid's birthday parties to sing showtunes.

Also it might hurt WotC's feelings.


Sissyl wrote:

Someone tries to make a game about erotic fantasy, and the same things happen. People complain about the maturity of it, people say it shouldn't be done, people claim it is bad, often while their arguments clearly show they haven't even read it. Every such product is immediately likened to FATAL. The reviews go overboard with calling it "creepy". "Why would you play that game with your friends when you can have an orgy with them?" "It's not necessary!" "All that can be handwaved!" And so on. The misery never ends.

It is an American culture thing, and it bores me.

Local protest event postponed or something?

Cause....unless the litigation nonsense up there is double entendre, no one's complained about that (I personally am against such products but I fill my pie hole with pie).


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A thread about an erotic DnD book, filled with litigation gobbledygook.

Yep, this is the internet.


Ah, the line running over the wall is not an issue!

Thanks man.


So in the rulebook under the cover section, there's a picture of an ogre and adjacent to him, around a corner is Merisiel. So the ogre has reach and thus Merisiel is not supposed to have cover from him, right? Except no matter which corner of the ogre's space you use to draw a line for determining cover, one of the lines will always go through the wall next to Merisiel. If you use the top right square's top right corner, one line will run over the wall itself, the top left square's top left corner will also have a line that runs over the wall.

I'm confused here, how does Merisiel not have cover from the ogre?

Also, if Merisiel wanted to fire at Valeros (let's say the ogre wasn't there), would she be able to fire around the corner at him (from her current position) or does it provide any form of cover?


Thanks guys, I'm seeing some awesome suggestions here. I think I'll follow sabretooth's suggestion of printing out the area and uncovering it as the party explores, and then mapping out the relevant areas when combat commences as Elegos suggested on square paper (my buddy actually has the battlemat).

@Christopher Rowe, any suggestions on how to make the digital pages in the paizo pdfs sharper and larger? I'd take them to a xerox shop, but if they print out a large sheet from the original, the lines will be horribly blurred unless I can give them a sharpened image to work off of. I remember being highly impressed with carrion crown's first adventure with the prison (mansion?), but the thought of drawing out all those details was daunting. I have no experience in this matter, I don't even know what programs to use (although I keep hearing the word 'photoshop' thrown around a lot). Your suggestion sounds pretty awesome, but everything you just said sounds like I just jumped into the deep end of the pool.

(Also your awesomely built map is making me jealous)


I'll be most likely running the gallows of madness module for my players this Thursday and will be the first time I use a module. How do you guys recreate some of these maps? They're very detailed and while we do have access to a relatively big chessex map, they maps are also kind of on the big side regardless....POSSIBLY bigger than our chessex map (though not sure, our chessex map is thankfully pretty big). The module in particular has one place with two floors, how would one go about preparing for THAT?


Elegos wrote:

As for free 1 shot modules you could run, Master of the Fallen Fortress or Risen from the Sands are both level 1 adventures that are available free on Paizos website.

I've played Master and run Risen and both were enjoyable adventures that a 1st or 3rd level party (respectively) could enjoy, especially for new players

Thanks, I'll give them a read through and will probably try to see if the guys would be interested in a one shot.

I'm not saying 5e is badwrongfun (I'd say there's no kind of thing as the wrong kind of fun, but the internet is a terrifying place), so much so as.....I guess the rules light aspect is most likely just not my cup of tea.

One of the things I miss from PF is the customize-ability of the classes, which is a feature of there not being the bounded accuracy aspect integral to 5e (which pervades many aspects of the system, like feats and spells). Skills are easier to raise so that you can form your character to be a master of the one you're interested in, and the importance of lucky rolls can be minimized away. You can actually plan ahead and prepare, because the game doesn't work based on the advantage/disadvantage system, every last bit of effort, every extra little thing you think of, can be used to give you an ACTUAL advantage. Perhaps you have an important meeting with some noble: you can use knowledge (nobility? I haven't played PF in ages) to find out what dish he likes, knowledge history to know where his house stands on certain matters or other houses, you can use spells to make you more convincing, you can manufacture an event that might make him more amenable to your suggestions. All these raise the likelihood of getting the person to do what you want. In 5e? You can put in all the effort you want, best you'll get is advantage and maybe the other side gets disadvantage.

As I said, I don't hate 5e, or at least if I do, it's a love-hate relationship (and I don't mean I love to hate it, I mean I both love AND hate it). There are so many simple things about it that gets the matter done in moments without sitting there trying to calculate every little, last detail. The thing that does bother me the most, I would say is the bounded accuracy trait. Oh, also the way concentration works.

@Hawkmoon, thanks, I actually didn't know there was a 5e section.

@John Mechalas, it plays fine, but it fosters one of those feelings of....okay, this is to start, now on to some REAL DnD (I refer to PF as DnD as well to be honest). I will say though that given the choice between 5e and no DnD (pathfinder included), then definitely 5e; given the choice between -4e- and no DnD.....hellooooo netflix bingeing.


Oh, by the way, did I mention ability score increases (or taking a feat) is based on CLASS level, not character level? So if you multiclass, you better decide whether you'll invest four levels to get your ability score/feat's worth, or if you take less, you'll be accepting a loss of ability increase/feat selection.

I mean seriously?


Oh God.

Not looking to start a thread for flaming and all...even if it ultimately comes to it.

It's just....I mean....

Advantage? Disadvantage? Excuse me?

I don't want to start an editions war in this thread or anything but....

I mean look, I can see the benefits of 5e, heck, sometimes it just springs out at you, right? I mean it simplifies everything so that if you're in an advantageous position, you don't need to worry about knowing rules like +AC or -attack roll by a specific amount, +attack roll to those guys and such, you can just simplify it to 'you have advantage, he has disadvantage'.

But....I mean....are you saying maximizing my potential to hit the target is impossible....? So if I follow the target in the dead of night, while there's a parade, with maximized stealth, hiding behind the things sticking out of people's roofs....I'm looking at advantage and ultimately a very low stealth bonus due to no feats able to raise specific skills up even higher, and an enemy whose ability to perceive my character is at worst hindered by disadvantage, no reduction in perception due to a dark night, distance, objects and the massive distraction of a parade going full party mode all around him. 5e is heavily reliant on the luck of the dice as well, pathfinder also relies on the luck of the dice but you can actually build your character, actually work on making him less reliant on lucky rolls, actually working on minimizing away the need for good rolls.

All the possible DMs in the group only want to DM 5e, citing how complex pathfinder is. Pathfinder eases you into the complexity as you level up, it doesn't drop it all on you at once. Heck, it's not even complex, it's a robust system that's not reliant on little things that if they go wrong, junks the entire system. THAT'S why you can have so many archetypes for the classes, the classes in 5e have to be finely tailored because the base system is so fragile.

For a one-shot 5e is great, but spend just a little more time on it and you start finding yourself frustrated with how empty the whole system is. This bounded accuracy thing they've created, along with the advantage/disadvantage system are the primary weaknesses of the system. The other problem they created, that originated back in 4e, was the lack of number of attacks and enemies that have either more health than they need or a normal amount of health but last longer because you can only make one attack (for most classes).

3e started out with a great system that got solidified in 3.5 and made powerful in pathfinder.

I'm really tempted to run these guys through a pathfinder one shot, I'm sure they'd be open to it as long as they don't have to DM it. I don't suppose you guys have any free 1st level adventures you can recommend?

Reading through the 5e spell list was so depressing....I've never seen a system ruin itself so badly.


Thanks for the replies guys!

For some breakdowns:

Once I receive all the parts I'll go to a computer store nearby that can assemble the PC for a small fee. Also, I'm going to be using it for gaming and watching movies, but pretty much all through my VR headset (using apps that will allow me to watch my desktop through my VR set). I was originally gonna get a 100" TV to go with it, but with a VR headset, who needs a TV?

The thing as to why I'm buying the best parts I can is because I keep my PCs for roughly 7-10 years. My current PC would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that it can't play VR and....that I kinda mighta ruined my video card by having a game run in the background for 24 hours for about...what was it....a week? Two weeks (three even)? And ironically it wasn't even a great game, it was just a clicker game I was addicted to for a while there. The current one's been with me for 7 or 8 years now. I like to milk my PCs to the point that even the latest games I simply stick on lowest rez just to be able to play them, but nowadays however even on lowest setting I can't get some of the latest stuff to work anymore (nor VR for that matter).


Actually for that matter, on the page it says something about the 'EVGA SLI HB Bridge (1-slot spacing)' and that Nvidia calls it the 3-slot, so does that mean if I get the bridge from Nvidia I should choose the 3-slot version?

EDIT: Also it talks about the 4TB hard drive not being the normal mechanical version but SATA-based....I have no idea what that means. I mean, it's still a hard drive like any other right? (EDIT 2: Actually never mind, I think they mean it's SSD, the fastest hard drive type currently out)


So I'm buying PC parts individually to try and build a good gaming rig, right? But I don't know which parts I should get from the UK, and which the US.

For the most part, I'm getting the pieces from the US, but as the electricity in my country is akin to that in the UK, I don't know which parts MUST be bought from there instead of the states.

Here's the parts list:

http://techbuyersguru.com/supreme-dream-machine-pc-build

I'd be grateful for any help, thanks.

(My buddy tells me I ought to wait for a few months as better parts are coming out, but I think that's true every month)


Thanks for the help.


Monk with ANY feats or abilities that raise running speed. Villains can't kill your character if they can't catch him.

“All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.”


Hi, could you please cancel all my subs? I have boxes of materials I haven't even opened and I'm not sure I'll ever get to them, same applies to any further subscription material to be honest.


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Drejk wrote:


*sends two squads of gremlin-thieves to Nobody's Home just to be sure to get his present*

To get....nobody's present? That sounds like a toss up between the gremlins never getting anywhere and forever traveling cause they're always going to nobody's place of residence or an infinite number of presents as there is no actual numerical representation of nobody and yet the acknowledgement of the existence of gifts leads to an infinite number of presents.

Did anyone else just see that? I think my brain temporarily blue screened.


I would argue that at that point we were watching JUST for those dragged out combat sequences. At this point in the book, I remember the novel just essentially wrapped the battle up in a few pages with little to no descriptions. At this point they could have just wrapped everything up in about 25-30 minutes or throw out all the stops and just go crazy.

They chose to go crazy.


Will way of kings include a HUD? I'm still fuzzy on how much stormlight energy each of Szeth's abilities cost, and just how much he regenerates by absorbing more. They should certainly show all upgrade windows too.


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Aw, I wanted to participate in NaNo but forgot all about it.

I suppose I now at least have another reason to pointlessly excuse my lack of writing.

Old age and regrets, here I come!


I actually thought the third hobbit movie was by far the best of the three. At that point they were done destroying the story and we were under no illusion that any of this was canon. We could just literally sit back, switch off our brains and enjoy the action.

I found the first movie boring me to tears, and the second one as being pretty unimpressive (save for Bilbo's meeting with Smaug). When the third movie rolled out, the facade of following the story was over, and it was just a fantasy action fest.


Khudzlin wrote:

There's still the problem of Improved critical itself explicitly not stacking with anything else that increases threat range.

Improved Critical wrote:

Attacks made with your chosen weapon are quite deadly.

Prerequisite: Proficient with weapon, base attack bonus +8.

Benefit: When using the weapon you selected, your threat range is doubled.

Special: You can gain Improved Critical multiple times. The effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.

This effect doesn't stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon.

Emphasis mine.

True, but the text in the original book most likely doesn't take 3PP into account and only speaks of what's available within the core material.


Jaçinto wrote:

I don't think you are using the word "undemocratic" correctly.

I meant attempting to intimidate your opponent with threats of jailing them should you win is not in the spirit of democracy. The reasons he cites are nonsense as all investigations against her have found nothing, if he jails her he'll be no different than democratically elected dictator.

I'm not American, but if I was I would've voted for Sanders.


Isn't threatening to jail your opposition if you win undemocratic?

Or threatening not to accept the results if you lose for that matter....

This election has devolved into a game show.


Hmm, what about the number of undead controlled per caster? You'd need a number of dedicated casters to maintain them on a day to day basis, though if it's a mageocracy I suppose you'd have plenty (though remember the whole no. of undead per caster level plus the higher the caster level, the more powerful the mage).

You'd also probably want to be careful you don't have enemy clerics sneaking in and mass destroying them by channeling positive energy (as it affects areas).


Ummm....don't these spells have time limits?


Rysky wrote:
Or maybe it's because most GMs don't allow evil characters? Also the outcast part would explain why a Gnoll is outside of their normal areas.

I agree, I suppose there isn't an easy way to incorporate an evil character into a group, even though gnolls have a 'pack' mentality that could explain why a gnoll wouldn't mess with group cohesion. Even murder hobo groups of good characters would still frown up corpse eating (demon worship isn't necessarily a deal breaker for groups provided the gnoll doesn't make it harm the team).

Maybe non-lawful good characters in a ravenloft setting could look the other way?

One of the benefits of playing THIS evil creature is the fact that they're team players DESPITE being chaotic.


Starglim wrote:

There are more in the Monster Codex. I'm not sure if they're on the PRD.

DrDeth wrote:
Where are the rules for doing a gnoll PC??
Mostly in the Gnoll entry in the Bestiary, I expect. First ask your GM if a PC whose race worships demons and eats people will fit into the campaign.

My first intention was to post this as side info, then as a funny FYI, then as a sad realization of current affairs with playing evil races:

Most folks who play gnoll choose to go the goodly route, playing instead outcasts from their people or simply those who eschew the dark nature of their people, or instead essentially a more bestial version of elves.

It's.....yeah.....it's dogfaced drizzt.

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