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If you are going for a Nature theme, how about a Paladin (Divine Hunter) that follows Erastil. You would be lawful good, but there is nothing that says a Tiefling can't be Lawful Good. Then Sorcerer goes from there.

Just want to comment on my really old thread.
Read before commenting. This wasn't about how to MAKE dead pool. It was how to make a character LIKE dead pool without the healing.

This was a horrible title.
It sounds like I am at Level 6 and I want spell suggestions for that level
I have searched and found Pathfinder Bard Guide_Spells and I will take Brilliant Inspiration from that list.

But I am at a loss for other good spells. As above, we are nearing the end of Rise of the Rune Lords. We have a healer. My character is sword and board. I was hoping someone would would have some idea for good Spell Level 6 spells. Perhaps ones from other (non 3rd party) books.

How about the Sohei Monk? It says they are masters of the Horse, but everyone has already said to just change that part. The Sohei gets free Mount feats. You are starting at the ideal level. The monk gets to flurry with the chosen weapon.

We are nearing the end of Rise of the Rune Lords. In a few sessions My Arcane Duelist Bard will get to 16th level. I would like some ideas for favorite or new 6th level spells.

I have gotten my list of spells to look at from Perram, but I know new books have come out since I printed those spells.

Some spells are not going to do well against Giants (High Fortitude)

I have stayed away from SoS spells because of my 20 or so Will save.

I could read the guides, but they are not exactly new
I have searched the site but "bard spells" and Best Bard spells" either has spells for low level or 5 year old threads. That's why I labeled this thread the way I did.


How does the Stench affect the rest of the party. Can you turn it on and off?

There is always the possibility of a single level of Swashbuckler with the Inspired Blade Archetype. Then you take Fencing Grace at first level (along with another feat if human) Doesn't help much if you want Power Attack and STR isn't 13 as said. Unless you wait several levels to take it when you get a Belt of Giant STR.

Having played most of a module with an Arcane Duelist Bard, I would say it all depends on your style of play.

The newest I could find were 3 year old threads.
My post was going differently, until I reread something and I am still confused.

Grit And Panche wrote:
For the purposes of feat prerequisites, a character with the panache class feature satisfies the prerequisites as if she were a grit user, and vice versa. Swashbuckler levels stack with gunslinger levels for the purpose of satisfying Signature Deed’s level requirement.

So because of the above a Swashbuckler is effectively a "grit" user and at 11th level qualifies as a Gunslinger for the Signature Deed feat. Is this correct?

When it says it stacks for the deed, does that mean you could take, say 5 levels of Gunslinger and the rest in Swashbuckler to qualify for the Feat?

We are in Rise of the Rune Lords and have finished the Rune Forge.
The GM has handed out gold and I spent part of it.
I have 28,887 gold left.
My Character is a 14th level Arcane Duelist Bard.
The Character does a LOT of Inspire Courage but also gets into combat
Here is what the character has already:
Handy Haversack (had it since near the beginning)
Runestone of Power level 1 (not very effective anymore)
Amulet of Natural Armor +2
Ring of Protection +3
Belt of Giant Strength +4
Cloak of Resistance +3
Shirt of Alluring Charisma +4 (custom item that freed up headband slot)
Headband of Intellect +2
Gloves of Arcane Strikes
Boots of the Winterlands (came in handy in this area and in next)
Wand of Displacement (39 charges)
Katana +2 keen, shocking burst
Breastplate +3, Mithral, Light Fortification
+3 spiked light shield
+1 Short Composite Strength bow Icy Burst

Character Stats: (with Items) STR 22, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 14, CHA 23.

The character has a great will save because of a Nymph inspiration earlier in the game.

I have until next week April 6th to give the GM any ideas what to do with my gold. I thought about Ioun stone to Charisma but I just didn't know about a thing circling my head. I know everyone gets one, but I wanted to see if there were other things.

My character runs into combat even though he isn't the main damage dealer. We have a Fighter (TWF Sword and board trip shield bash) and the archer who does plenty of damage. The summoner is a walking damage shield.
There is the group and my stuff. Ideas on what to do with the rest of my gold?

Standard 4d6 drop lowest
however, to keep the group from having bad stats as some do, the GM came up with a system
After you roll the dice, look at your modifiers. Let's say I rolled 9, 11, 8, 15, 10 & 13. I add the modifiers up and get 1.
The system starts with 11 and you subtract your total modifiers from that. In my case it would be 10. I would have 10 points to spend on my stats.
What to do with those points:
4-13 is 1/2 pt.
14-16 is 1 pt.
17 is 2 pts.
18 is 4 pts.

How are you getting 3 feats at first level, or is the proficiency just there to show that you can use it and not an actual feat.

Also, you can't take Combat Trick twice. per the book

A rogue cannot select an individual talent more than once.

And there isn't anything under Combat Trick saying that you can take it more than once.

Why not the Brawler. The Gauntlet is the Close Weapon group so you could use Brawler's Flurry with Gauntlets.

Just a note, there isn't much Sneak in sneak attack with a gunslinger. It's BOOM!! on the first attack. you will get that first sneak attack for surprise, but unless you are using some other method to get flat footed, don't depend on the gun. There is press to the wall, but you are getting up close to the enemy. The gunslinger wants to be away to reload.

So unless someone has an idea for a second sneak attack, I say you can only get one in.

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Shouldn't the Paladin be trying to help the Necromancer onto a Better path instead of every one being afraid there is going to be some horrible confrontation? The game can easily go smoothly.
This isn't one of those games where someone announces they are playing a CE character and someone else wants to play a Paladin.

I think it depends on your game. I got it for my Arcane Duelist Bard in Rise of the Rune Lords. I've been up against Dragons and wizards with mirror image. I just "walk up to them and poke em in the eyes" :) It's a great spell but not super since it only goes out to 40 feet. I still use it every chance I get. So it depends on you and your situation.

edit: Are you the healer of the group? If not then you can get ride of the Cure Critical Wounds. False Life is always useful. Technically you should be able to get a magic item for Freedom of Movement, but I think it's expensive.
If you have a fulltime healer in the group, get rid of the CCW.

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It sounds like the thread has more issues with Lawful Stupid Paladins than the OP. ;)

I know cleric was a fat no, but in our game our Oracle has Leadership and a Cleric follower. The Cleric is the primary healer with the Oracle player being secondary.

How about using the CRB monk as an example? It says right there in the KI pool: At 4th level, ki strike allows his unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

If they forget, refer to the book or online instead of you.

I have read through Inquisitor (may have missed something) and didn't see anything that was specific about a requirement for the Favored weapon.

The Paladin is very specific about the Divine Bond in what it can do for a weapon.

I thought Bane or Justice might do something with Favored Weapon, but I didn't see anything.

I haven't gone through spells. Is there a spell requirement?

My plan for the Inquisitor is a Level in Swashbuckler and the rest in Inquisitor. Someone in another thread suggested Cayden Cailean.
But I like the Luck Domain and only a couple of Gods have that.

For example, If I decide to take Shelyn as the character's god, do I have to carry around a Glaive? Sure it's great for reach attacks but I don't want it for my character. Where does it say that the Inquisitor needs to have that Favored weapon?

I think this has been asked before (probably a lot). Someone suggested the Summoner for what they can summon quickly (not their favorite Eidolon) and send it forward on command. If it's a trap that needs to be disarmed, I don't know if bashing it will do the trick. Sometimes having a rogue or a rogue type is the answer.

I would say that in general it is a bad idea unless you yourself are good at Multi Tasking. The whole thing is about everyone having fun. If the players are not having fun, the game falls apart. If the GM is not having fun, no GM and thus no game. If you really think you can run the NPCs and your own character then sure give it a try.

People here say that this is wrong and sometimes hated.

In all our games, the GM has his own Character. This character was made at the same time as the others and is not some snowflake. He is not overpowered. Our group is about 7 players. This is way over the norm.

What I would suggest is to give it a shot but be prepared to pull that character out of the game (even plan it). You would make the character an NPC for that 4th spot.

If you can do what our GM can do and what every one else insists CAN'T be done then GREAT, everyone is having fun.

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O Fortuna - Carmina Burana It's great battle music all around.

I remember when we were playing Second Darkness. The GM used this huge piece of Styrfoam that he paint to look like a cliff wall. Characters were pinned to the side where they were flying or climbing and we were attacked we were attack by Ropers and what not. I think there was even an illusion of a Glabrezu that he had a "mini" for.

For our group Second Darkness ended at 14th level technically. After killing the BBEG we got XP to go to 15 but that was moot.

Do like my GM would do, just have the player re-roll the stat. It saves trouble down the road.

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Beemdog has Neverwinter Night Enhanced Edition.
I have played NWN2 and it looks great but I have heard about how bad it is to create your own stuff compared to NWN1. The controls are funky too.

It would also be nice to have a Pathfinder version of the game though that would be a LOT of Archetypes. Such a game might have to stick to the core rule book and maybe one other (APG for traits?).

I haven't played a muliplayer NWN game or a Persistent World, but I believe there are all kinds of setting the GM can set up.

I am in Rise of the Rune Lords with an Arcane Duelist.
We are 14th level. I have Master Performer and Grand Master Performer. My Inspire Courage for the group is +5. The character is Strength based. Mithral Breastplate. I have noticed in my game that the "anti-mage" feats have not worked well when I have gotten in the face of actual casters. It might just be the module.

I have enjoyed playing this character. It reminds me of the Magus. It is like playing a Gish.

If you are one of the Occult classes, you can cast spells mentally.

The common method I have seen on here is 5 levels of Gunslinger and the rest into something else. Fighter would work. It would get the most feats, thought not the best saves. One feat chain to go for is Gun Twirl so you can put away your gun as a free action.

I don't do point buy, so I may get this wrong. If you plan on using that sword, you may want to beef up that STR. Taking one point off of DEX gives back 3 points right? you put all three into STR. Then take two out of CHA. put one into STR for a total of 12. Put the other into INT for an 11.
I always value skills. At 4th you put a point into INT.

This is just a suggestion. After all, that sword is going to be almost useless if you dump strength.

Is your GM giving you free ammo?

I don’t have all the facts about all these books. I didn’t want to dig them out.
D&D Deities and Demigods (non Cthulu)
D&D PHB 1st ED
D&D (original red basic book and original blue expert book)
D&D PHB 2nd ED
D&D DMG 2nd ED
D&D PHB 5th ED
Core book
Ultimate Combat
Ultimate Magic
Inner Sea World Guide
Inner Sea Magic
Big Eyes Small Mouth 2nd ED
Champions 5th ED
Dark Champions (I think this goes with 3rd ED)
Ultimate Metalist (same time period as Dark Champions)
Bubble Gum Crisis Source Book (Fuzion)
Champions: New Milenium
GURPS Basic set 3rd ED
GURPS Magic 2nd ED
GURPS Psionics (1st ED?)
Hunter Planet (Australian RPG)
Defenders of the Faith (3.5 supplement)
Masters of the Wild (3.5 supplement)
Song and Silence (3.5 supplement)
Tome and Blood (3.5 supplement)
Sword and Fist (3.5 supplement)
The Complete Fighter’s Handbook
Star Trek The Next Generation RPG
Vampire Player’s Guide
D&D Supplement Dragen Kings
Villains and Vigilanties
Dragon Riders of Pern
Larry Niven’s Ringworld
Buffy the Vampire Slayer RPG

I forgot Traveller, the one in the little black box. It's the one where you can die on character creation.

I'd rather have Echolocation. I read up on scent. You have to Zero In on your target if you can't see them. If it is pitch black out (or you are taking the place of the drug hound). You still have a general area. It's like that game of 'getting warm' 'getting cold' kind of thing.
Sadly only the two were given. If this was IN GAME, I would take Darkvision & Echolocation. Scent is not trustworthing in my mind.

Just curious, where is Weapon of Choice coming from. I see it is under Unchained Rogue, but I don't see that ability or rogue talent.

Another choice for the cavalier that I like (halflings) is Order of the Paw (Advanced Races). However the best ability happens at 12th level. If this is PFS, then Order of the Paw may not be the best idea.

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In Rise of the Rune Lords, I play a Bard where I use Echolocation a lot. I have used it against a Dragon that cast a blinding storm on the group. With Echolocation up, my normal vision was useless. Still, I was able to get in the 40 foot range and hit the dragon with Deafing Sound Burst several times.

I have used the same spell against a Lich who had Mirror Image and Dispacement. The Echolocation was fooled by neither.

We divide by committee. Generally there are obvious things that will go to certain players. (the only player in the group that uses a Katana for example) But then we get something that NO ONE wants, a Trident of fish command. Things like that go into party loot. Recently our Oracle got the feat or ability to break magic items down into component parts so we do that or we sell the items. Having bags of holding for party loot is better.

Apple Tablet, Polaris Office. The spreadsheet program was a lot cheaper than getting Hero Labs and from what I have read, more reliable.
I keep my spreadsheet at home up to date and update the charactersheet on the tablet regularly. I can even email the character sheet to the GM when they want the update after I level.

Thanks for everyone's help.
Our group uses Perception a lot. Everyone gets a chance to make the check and it can be hearing or vision.
We also use Knowledge local a lot. So I will put a couple of points in there too.

My last two characters have been ones with plenty of skills so this one will be a first with very few.

I don't expect the Paladin to be the chief at Diplomacy. With so few skill points to spread around, I may have a good CHA, but that may not be enough. Just like my current bard (rune lords game) I am the Diplomacy helper for the Oracle who has Charisma through the roof. :D

My group knows how to keep it together in a fight. The pally won't go running off. "Don't split up the Party" I can't remember if that line comes from Knights of the Dinner Table or Scooby Doo. In any case, if the caster wants to cast haste, we try to keep it together.

Anyway, thanks

I think the build I got out of this thread was this:

Paladin Archetype Oath of Vengeance
Human: Fey Foundling
1. Power Attack
3. Extra LoH
5. Unsanctioned Knowledge
7. Lunge
9. Improved Critical
11. Divine Interference
13. Critical Focus
15. Staggering Critical

I'm not sure about the Critical Focus. feats.

Any ideas for feast at levels 13 and 15?

It seems to me if I get Pearls of Power I should be okay for Bless Weapon.

Critical Focus becomes like Combat Expertise (useless until you get what is attached to it). It's just a bonus to Improved Critical. Most monsters will be Evil by that time.

I guessed at the follow-up critical. But I don't know what feats to put in there that would be good. They SEEM okay.

For Traits, I know that the UMD trait has been suggested.
I normally take Reactionary. My character will likely have a low DEX.

Armor Expert came to mind if only to help the ACP.

I am not expecting to put a lot of points into skills though Perception (not a Pally skill) will get points anyway.

So the build above is generally done.

The character is going 2-hander, not VMC and not multiclass.

Hell, I might even go for Great sword even though people here go for the Falchion.

As above, I am not planning on a Healing Paladin. I am planning on an Oath of Vengeance archetype.

What our group does is hand out healing potions. That way if someone is in dire need of healing, they can do it without a wand. We can resupply with Party funds.

The character won't be a partial party healer.

But thanks for the build.

These are rolled stats not point buy.
This character won't have a dump stat.
I'll consider the trait for UMD.

One thing, can Bless Weapon be put onto a wand? I only see it as a Paladin spell. It would be a lot easier to cast more often with a wand.

Our group tends to stick to the core races.

Also, I have had the issue of pulling out a wand to cast a spell from it and then put it away (even from a handy haversack) and by the time I am done, half the fight is over.

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I like the idea of going Sword and Board early on.
It gives some options. Though eventually I might find a magic one handed sword along the way.
Though UMD is a good thing, for a class with so few skill points, (assuming I roll well with INT, I will still have low skill points to work with) there won't be a lot to spread around. Besides, the wands that might be used would be for cure and I KNOW someone will be playing a Cleric or Oracle. A class with more skill points available, definitely, but not this one. This is my opinion.

I am definitely going with Unsanctioned Knowledge. Wait until 5th level for that one since that is when I get my first spells?

I like Divine Interference, but that won't be until 11th level.

Here is what I have

Paladin Archetype Oath of Vengeance
Human: Fey Foundling
1. Power Attack
3. Extra LoH
5. Unsanctioned Knowledge
7. Lunge
9. Improved Critical
11. Divine Interference
13. Critical Focus
15. Staggering Critical
Normally I take Reactionary.
I might take Armor Expert

Eventually I would get Mithral Armor, but that wouldn't reduce the Armor Check penalty by much.

Ultimate Intrigue Uses Verbal Duels. I only skimmed the text, but it is possible. There is the Bard Archetype, the Wit that deals with these Social Duels.

I want to be clear on something with fewer words. No Rise of the Rune Lords. Character is for Future game.
I apologize if this sounds condescending.

The Archetype for this Character is Oath of Vengeance.
The paladin will not be the healer of the group. As with the current Rune Lords game we have 8 players including myself.
Someone in that group WILL play a cleric or Oracle. I am assuming I will be saving up the Lay on Hands for Smite Evil. That means Mercy won't be used all that much.

I put in Lung mostly to placate the people that love Reach so much. Thus I took it at a later level instead sooner.

One feat I was thinking of is NOT a combat feat is Unsanctioned Knowledge.
Having played 14 levels of Bard, I know a few good spells that I wouldn't mind the paladin to have.

I don't think I need Toughness on the Paladin, because I typically make sure to have a CON of 14 on ALL my characters. This one has a d10 so it's one of those classes that can do without.

If I build my Paladin like I did my Arcane Duelist, then I will get KEEN on my sword. That will free up the Improved Critical Feat. (as far as money goes, we usually have someone with Craft arms and armor feats.

So you guys think of Lunge as a need. I see it as an option.
Vital Strike is a Filler because I assume I will be doing a full attack all the time.
It looks like Combat reflexes is an option not a need.

Okay, we are in Runelords and I have no CLUE what the next one is. I have to agree that other than with Thistle Top we haven't had much in the way of a bunch of monsters all at once. There have been a few though. Our fighter with the Sword and board trip build wished he had cleave several times but kept saying he was planned out for other feats. My arcane duelist Bard could have too I suppose but was also planned out.

I took those because that is generally what you take. Also they were in that Bodhi guide for the Castigator.

1: Power Attack, Fey Foundling
3: ?
5: ?
7: Combat reflexes now or earlier?
9: Improved Critical / if I get Keen then Improved Initiative?
11: Lunge or Critical Focus?
13: Strike Back any good?

I tried looking at a Fighter build, but they get way too many feats.

Thanks for the help so far.
I know people love Reach Weapons, but for this build, I don’t want to use them.

I like the idea of Fey Foundling. I am sure I can work that into the background
1st level, Power Attack and Fey Foundling
3rd Cleave
5th Great Cleave
7th Combat Reflexes ?
9th Improved Critical
11th Lunge (I know what I said above)
13th Strike Back
15th Critical Focus
17th Vital Strike

I left Cunning out because of the Villain Codex. The GM allows what books he has. I am sure I can make a good character with one less skill point per level.

I am not sure about Strike Back. It seems odd that you can hit an incoming arm or weapon as a normal attack. Normally without this feat, it's a combat maneuver (I think).

Critical Focus seems a little late to be useful. Since I am not putting Lunge at the top of my list, I could swap it with that.
Vital Strike was a shot in the dark. I have no clue for this "game ending" feat.

How does this look? How about Trait Suggestion?

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Depending on your game Chuthulu Cleric

I haven't actually build a character.
I have looked through Bodhi's guide and the list of feats for the Two hander

(I initially thought of Sword and board, but people seem to think TWF with that so I am now thinking Two-hander)

I am more looking for a build.
The character will be Human
I like skills. In my current game I am playing a Bard and the last game it was a Monk. I was used to having them.
1st Level will probably be Power Attack and Fast Learner
3rd level ?
5th level?
7th level This could be Improved Critical, but I am hoping to have Keen
I spent money for my bard to have Keen on his sword. So it seems easier to have an empty feat slot.

Bodhi Has Cleave and Great Cleave.

Everyone suggests the Falchion for that Twohander.
BTW, what god's weapon is a Falchion?


Never mind the last part. I could worship Sarenrae but USE a two handed sword.

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Gunslinger: Whiskey In The Jar, Metallica
Synthesist Summoner: Still Your Ghost, Rondo Brothers
Dawnflower Dancer Bard: Sabre Dance, Gayne
Slayer: Am I Evil?, Metallica
Druid: Changes, David Bowie
Ranger: Fred Bear, Ted Nugent
Bard: Thank You For The Music, ABBA
Monk(any): Burly Brawl), Matrix Reloaded

I know the mechanics are the same. It's kind of like "Who's line is it Anyway?" Except the points do matter and the words are made up.

I am just curious how the words got off track?

In Inner Sea Magic, The Archetype is Dawnflower Dervish and this is used through out.

On D20PFSRD, it is Dervish of Dawn and at the bottom it points to the book that I have.

So why don't they just use Dawnflower Dervish?

The only good answer I can come up with is Dervish of Dawn works well on your spellchecker.

I just want to clarify something, chiefly because I am an idiot.
(There is a thread in the rules section called Magus - Is spellstrike reliant on Spell Combat I downloaded that back in March(ish) of last year and forgot that I could waste your time!)

So here's the thing. Spell Strike can be used by itself. But Gallant Armor said:

Gallant Armor wrote:
RAW you have it right, you can spellstrike without doing spell combat but you would miss out on full attacks.

So in my own thread, I am right and I am wrong. Spell Strike can be used by itself just not with a full attack. If I want to have a full attack (and at a -2) I need Spell Combat

Is what Gallant Armor said (or me) wrong?

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