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Yes there were... Scott Summers as originally created had his moments of being stuffy, or not a cool person to be around, but for some reason, Marvel decided to rewrite the character to be a total asshat. His treatment of Madelyne Pryor was awful, he picks up women, establishes emotional bonds promises deep commitment, and then dumps them without much as a buy your leave. And then they started making him a real jerk.
Yeah, once upon a time Scott Summers was a bit of a stick in the mud, but not a bad person per se. That all came later.
The only conclusion that makes sense to me is that the folks who currently write the X-Men were hooligans who read the original stories has a kid, and decided when they actually got the chance, they'd destroy him as a character, because he was so "uncool" when they read him as kids.
This is surprisingly believable given the little I know about the comic book industry.
I guess we are not doing spoiler tags?
Um...I assume Simmons will be survive her experience in the Kree artifact, but will probably get altered/brainwashed into some sort of weapon for use against Inhumans.
Also I don't think the fish oil thing is going to play into Civil War. Marvel released a blurb about the movie a few days ago that implied that the "act" that inspires the legislation (which I still think will be less about registering superhumans and more about direct government oversight of the Avengers) will happen at the beginning of the movie.
One detail I liked...it's interesting that both Skye and Ward are both being put in positions where they are building teams. Could be some nice compare and contrast. Also man the showrunners must love secret wars, since that is also something that seems borrowed from the comic.
Son of Coul spoiler, very likely Ant-Man spoiler, & Netflix's Defenders speculation:
Spoiler:Coulson will get a new arm from Dr. Chow or whatever her name was (from Avengers 2).
Spoiler:Coulson... And what kind of cool new hand are you going to get?
Also, I just ran across an article which may explain what happened to Coulson:
So is this a spoiler for Ant-Man… not really. I’m obsessed with Star Wars. Who’s not? I’m 40 years old. I’m in the movie business. I went to USC. So I’m obsessed with Star Wars - and it didn’t start out as intentional, but it became intentional, including that beat that you referenced. It sort of happens in every Star Wars movie, but I was sort of looking at it, ‘Okay, is Phase Two our Empire Strikes Back?’ Not really, but tonally things are a little different. Somebody gets their arm cut off in every Phase Two movie. Every single one.
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Some possibilities for Simmons:
(a) The thing in the box was designed as a weapon against Inhumans; she's not an Inhuman and will be fine once it realizes that and releases her. Unlikely; seems too anticlimactic.
(b) The thing in the box was designed as a weapon against Inhumans; she's revealed to have been an untriggered Inhuman and has now had that potential neutralized. will be fine once it realizes that and releases her. Again, unlikely; it just leaves us with the Simmons we thought we had all along.
(c) It was never designed as a weapon against Inhumans, that was just someone's paranoia. It's a probe of some kind, and is "learning" about us Earth-types by doing a comprehensive physical and mental scan of Simmons. Maybe, but that seems pointless unless the information gets acted on by the object's builders, and AoS isn't a good place to stage a full scale alien invasion.
(d) The thing in the box was designed as a weapon, but not selectively against Inhumans. It will infect/alter Simmons in some way. I really wouldn't care for this. If she's compelled to do something afterward, it's too much like what happened to Coulson. If she's physically altered or gains powers, too much like what happened to Skye/Raina. If it changes her mental state or personality, too much like what happened to Fitz.
Anything else?
e) the thing in the box is a weapon against the Inhumans and sensed the surface level hatred we've been seeing in Simons all season, realizing that makes her an excellent subject to transform into an Inhuman killing thing. Simmons spends the first half of Season 3 secretly hunting and killing Inhumans until discovered by the rest of the team who must then find a way to save her, despite her own insistance that she is doing "good"
e) the thing in the box is a weapon against the Inhumans and sensed the surface level hatred we've been seeing in Simons all season, realizing that makes her an excellent subject to transform into an Inhuman killing thing. Simmons spends the first half of Season 3 secretly hunting and killing Inhumans until discovered by the rest of the team who must then find a way to save her, despite her own insistance that she is doing "good"Some possibilities for Simmons:
(a) The thing in the box was designed as a weapon against Inhumans; she's not an Inhuman and will be fine once it realizes that and releases her. Unlikely; seems too anticlimactic.
(b) The thing in the box was designed as a weapon against Inhumans; she's revealed to have been an untriggered Inhuman and has now had that potential neutralized. will be fine once it realizes that and releases her. Again, unlikely; it just leaves us with the Simmons we thought we had all along.
(c) It was never designed as a weapon against Inhumans, that was just someone's paranoia. It's a probe of some kind, and is "learning" about us Earth-types by doing a comprehensive physical and mental scan of Simmons. Maybe, but that seems pointless unless the information gets acted on by the object's builders, and AoS isn't a good place to stage a full scale alien invasion.
(d) The thing in the box was designed as a weapon, but not selectively against Inhumans. It will infect/alter Simmons in some way. I really wouldn't care for this. If she's compelled to do something afterward, it's too much like what happened to Coulson. If she's physically altered or gains powers, too much like what happened to Skye/Raina. If it changes her mental state or personality, too much like what happened to Fitz.
Anything else?
her hatred towards super-powered folks has calmed a bit...she was very much pro-peace with the inhumans in the final few episodes. I do think otherwise your hypothesis is correct, only she will be doing it via blackouts and not realize it, or the device will mess her up mentally or install another personality.
her hatred towards super-powered folks has calmed a bit...she was very much pro-peace with the inhumans in the final few episodes. I do think otherwise your hypothesis is correct, , only she will be doing it via blackouts and not realize it, or the device will mess her up mentally or install another personality.e) the thing in the box is a weapon against the Inhumans and sensed the surface level hatred we've been seeing in Simons all season, realizing that makes her an excellent subject to transform into an Inhuman killing thing. Simmons spends the first half of Season 3 secretly hunting and killing Inhumans until discovered by the rest of the team who must then find a way to save her, despite her own insistance that she is doing "good"Some possibilities for Simmons:
(a) The thing in the box was designed as a weapon against Inhumans; she's not an Inhuman and will be fine once it realizes that and releases her. Unlikely; seems too anticlimactic.
(b) The thing in the box was designed as a weapon against Inhumans; she's revealed to have been an untriggered Inhuman and has now had that potential neutralized. will be fine once it realizes that and releases her. Again, unlikely; it just leaves us with the Simmons we thought we had all along.
(c) It was never designed as a weapon against Inhumans, that was just someone's paranoia. It's a probe of some kind, and is "learning" about us Earth-types by doing a comprehensive physical and mental scan of Simmons. Maybe, but that seems pointless unless the information gets acted on by the object's builders, and AoS isn't a good place to stage a full scale alien invasion.
(d) The thing in the box was designed as a weapon, but not selectively against Inhumans. It will infect/alter Simmons in some way. I really wouldn't care for this. If she's compelled to do something afterward, it's too much like what happened to Coulson. If she's physically altered or gains powers, too much like what happened to Skye/Raina. If it changes her mental state or personality, too much like what happened to Fitz.
Anything else?
Also remember that Simmons can read the Index. :)
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so Season 3 is "someone is mysteriously killing powered people" and then it turns out to be Simmons.
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There were such days?I miss the days when I could argue against that point.Scott Summers is the Captain DouchePlanet of the Marvel multiverse.On the other hand your average mutant is also less of a douche than Scott Summers.Thunderbolt Ross and Glenn Talbot together, are less of a douche than Summers.Yes there were... Scott Summers as originally created had his moments of being stuffy, or not a cool person to be around, but for some reason, Marvel decided to rewrite the character to be a total asshat. His treatment of Madelyne Pryor was awful, he picks up women, establishes emotional bonds promises deep commitment, and then dumps them without much as a buy your leave. And then they started making him a real jerk.
The only conclusion that makes sense to me is that the folks who currently write the X-Men were hooligans who read the original stories has a kid, and decided when they actually got the chance, they'd destroy him as a character, because he was so "uncool" when they read him as kids.
Got to agree with LazarX. They didn't really start screwing with Scott until that showdown with a powerless Storm for the leadership of the X-Men. By all rights, he should have won that contest. But it wasn't the fact that he was beaten. It was the manner in which he was beaten. She turned his fear of hurting someone else with his own power against him. That goes a long way to damaging a person's psyche. It was something that he never truly recovered from... on top of everything else he'd endured. Then came the business with Madelyne... and finding out there was a third Summers son... and his merging with Apocalypse (which could only make a damaged psyche worse). After that it became the goal of writers to kick the man while he was down, leading to the mess that he is now.
But yeah, Scott wasn't always the consummate jerk that he is now. He was for the longest time my favorite X-Man.
Got to agree with LazarX. They didn't really start screwing with Scott until that showdown with a powerless Storm for the leadership of the X-Men. By all rights, he should have won that contest. But it wasn't the fact that he was beaten. It was the manner in which he was beaten. She turned his fear of hurting someone else with his own power against him. That goes a long way to damaging a person's psyche. It was something that he never truly recovered from... on top of everything else he'd endured. Then came the business with Madelyne... and finding out there was a third Summers son... and his merging with Apocalypse (which could only make a damaged psyche worse). After that it became the goal of writers to kick the man while he was down, leading to the mess that he is now.But yeah, Scott wasn't always the consummate jerk that he...
Everything before the Apocolypse merging has blown completely out of perspective. He was a pretty awesome character before that.
Once he was demerged from the ultimate evil and given to Morrison to play with the character spiraled out of control to something I don't even recognize anymore.
But yeah, all the 'boy scout' 'jerk to maddie' reputations are remarkably biased. He was never as bad as people made him out to be.
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Did you notice that during the Dark Phoenix movie, that Scott is the first person killed by Jean Grey, and he practically dies off screen?
That's because the actor was cheating on Fox/Marvel with DC being in Superman Returns, so they decided to punish him by reducing his role significantly. He was meant to die on alcatraz island and give the Phoenix a moment of clarity she needed to let Wolverine kill her.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I am very happy with Cal's story arc.
I am content with Raina's story arc.
Ward is no more loyal to Hydra than he ever was to SHIELD. I'm expecting him to sell out his "team" as soon as it suits him.
I'm hoping to see Quake deal with Gravitron.
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Am I the only one that thinks what they did to Cal is f&+~ing horrifying?
Am I the only one that thinks what they did to Cal is f+~&ing horrifying?
** spoiler omitted **
Doubtful. I'm fine with it though.
Am I the only one that thinks what they did to Cal is f%%&ing horrifying?
** spoiler omitted **
I can see your point...and I think it is going to come back and bite them in the ass.
Am I the only one that thinks what they did to Cal is f#%~ing horrifying?
** spoiler omitted **
Very.
Who did he murder? A bunch of shield agents that were making off with his daughter. Hint: when you're a bunch of masked men with guns and you act like the bad guys, people are going to be justified in going hulk on your keister.
I did LOVE cals plan for getting out of the cell. A very good mix of smart, crazy , savy and mad doctor.
Am I the only one that thinks what they did to Cal is f#%~ing horrifying?
** spoiler omitted **
Very.
Who did he murder? A bunch of shield agents that were making off with his daughter. Hint: when you're a bunch of masked men with guns and you act like the bad guys, people are going to be justified in going hulk on your keister.
A lot of SHIELD guys... Hydra guys... A village of civilians...
And there really is a difference between 'making off with his daughter' and 'all his daughter's friends that she was hanging out with...' Especially when he climbed on the Quinjet with premeditated murder on his mind... and his daughter safe with mom.
Cal was crazy and at no time did they really try to go with the 'he's justified' defense.
And there really is a difference between 'making off with his daughter' and 'all his daughter's friends that she was hanging out with...'
I meant when she was a baby. Its been a while (i should go through the series again) but shield or hydra took sky when she was young protecting her from "the monster" aka.. her dad coming to get her. From his point of view thats kidnapping and he's going William Nelson on them.
Especially when he climbed on the Quinjet with premeditated murder on his mind... and his daughter safe with mom.
Her daughters friends that showed up with jets to, as far as he was told, take out his wife, and then probably her daughter when she'd outlived her usefulness.
Cal was crazy and at no time did they really try to go with the 'he's justified' defense.
Of course not, because shield can do no wrong. Even when they're kidnapping, doing illegal extraditions, sending people to prison without a trial, commiting grand theft auto, shooting innocent people at point blank with experimental puffer fish poison bullets...
And there really is a difference between 'making off with his daughter' and 'all his daughter's friends that she was hanging out with...'
I meant when she was a baby. Its been a while (i should go through the series again) but shield or hydra took sky when she was young protecting her from "the monster" aka.. her dad coming to get her. From his point of view thats kidnapping and he's going William Nelson on them.
Especially when he climbed on the Quinjet with premeditated murder on his mind... and his daughter safe with mom.Her daughters friends that showed up with jets to, as far as he was told, take out his wife, and then probably her daughter when she'd outlived her usefulness.
Blame's been shifted to HYDRA for that, though at the time they were hiding inside SHIELD at the time.
But still... wiping out a village?? REALLY tough to whitewash that one.
I'm pretty sure 'ma' had Cal in the loop about how this was all going down. Could be wrong, but he made a point about how he'd always do what she asked him to...
Technically speaking it was Jiaying(sp?) that killed the whole village, but he "fed" them to her, so semantics, almost.
Still, he was nutty as a Payday bar, so he didn't deserve to be executed. No man on the face of this earth has ever more deserved the insanity plea than Calvin "THIS IS THE BEST DAY EVER!" Zabo.
I actually think what happened to Cal was way darker than if they'd just executed him.
Why?
OR....
He gets locked in an asylum and pumped full of even MORE chemicals forever... or until he gets filled with something that inevitably internalizes his potion and breaks out killing people...
OR...
He gets to be happy. Help people and pets when they need a friendly face the most. Be a useful member of society and NOT remember all the horrible things he's done...
Until he is inevitably woken up and brought back for some reason or other...
Really a very humane (if not overly SMART) way of dealing with someone of his power and crimes.
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But HE doesn't get to be happy. He is not him any more. He is someone else. His identical twin is happy, not Cal.
But HE doesn't get to be happy. He is not him any more. He is someone else. His identical twin is happy, not Cal.
Added bonus :)
'HE' doesn't get to be happy, because he made poor life decisions and became a super-villain.
Had they locked him up. Coma'ed him, Killed him, Cyrogenically frozen him... 'HE' wouldn't have been happy then either.
The quick and easy way would have been to execute him. This way is better because A) He's not a threat (until something inevitably goes wrong) and B) his knowledge and wisdom isn't lost to the ages.
There could come some dark day where the world needs Cal's expertise on some chemical something or other, or some knowledge of what 'Mommy' did...
on that day they'll be glad they hadn't killed him.
Project Tahiti: the thesus's ship speed construction crew
This way is not better than simply locking him up.
I am at best tentatively pro-execution anyway. I find "death of personality" to be FAR worse.
He was resigned to his fate of being locked up for the rest of his life in some SHIELD prison. He'd made peace with that. It would have been a fitting punishment (he seemed to HATE being confined), and affords a chance to properly rehabilitate him and fix some of the psychological damage he'd suffered due to trauma and his undead wife mind f#%&ing him for 25 years, combined with a cocktail of drugs that included "gorilla testosterone and peppermint".
That chance is gone. If they ever need him again and reverse the mind wipe (if it's even possible, which is unclear), he'll be the same old Cal. Erratic, trustworthy only as long as his daughter is on hand, and possibly with a full-on murder-hate boner for the people who violated his mind.
Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere
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That was awesome season finale. Really glad that Cal/Hyde paid off in the end. I hope they bring him back some day in the future, maybe Mr Hyde- persona starts leaking trough and they need help to deal with him.
Speaking of which...
This way is not better than simply locking him up.
I am at best tentatively pro-execution anyway. I find "death of personality" to be FAR worse.
He was resigned to his fate of being locked up for the rest of his life in some SHIELD prison. He'd made peace with that. It would have been a fitting punishment (he seemed to HATE being confined), and affords a chance to properly rehabilitate him and fix some of the psychological damage he'd suffered due to trauma and his undead wife mind f!~@ing him for 25 years, combined with a cocktail of drugs that included "gorilla testosterone and peppermint".
That chance is gone. If they ever need him again and reverse the mind wipe (if it's even possible, which is unclear), he'll be the same old Cal. Erratic, trustworthy only as long as his daughter is on hand, and possibly with a full-on murder-hate boner for the people who violated his mind.
It's difficult to really justify much of anything in comic book universes.
Locking up never seems to work. Didn't work on SHIELDs other secret prisons... Didn't work in Iron Man 2... didn't even work in Asgard. Jailbreaks are disturbingly common.
Asylums are arguably worse. The success rate of De-crazying people is abysmal.
SHIELDS #1 goal above all else is 'end the threat to civilians'. Batman is proof that locking up the crazies in the hopes that they 'won't kill everyone' is a disaster. Even Spidey's had more then his share of Carnage's.
Step one: End the threat.
Step two: do it as humanely as possible.
But yeah, ya gotta guarantee that step one :-/ Just locking up a guy who is already able to break down doors gets tricky at best. Add in the fact that he cracked (at least a part of) a super-soldier serum? He could well be high on someone's 'Break of jail' list.
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Its not like the grave has a better retention rate than arkham.
You know what has an even worse retention rate than the grave or a prison?
A Veterinary Clinic in Hoboken or wherever the hell he is.
If somebody wants to capture him, un-wipe his memory, and figure out his secret ape semen recipe, they'd have a hell of a lot harder time doing it if they had to go through a bunch of SHIELD agents and a force field cage.
Especially since he didn't WANT to break out (since that would mean no longer being able to see his daughter when she came to visit)...so would have been likely to fight his "rescuers".
You know what has an even worse retention rate than the grave or a prison?
A Veterinary Clinic in Hoboken or wherever the hell he is.
If somebody wants to capture him, un-wipe his memory, and figure out his secret ape semen recipe, they'd have a hell of a lot harder time doing it if they had to go through a bunch of SHIELD agents and a force field cage.
Especially since he didn't WANT to break out (since that would mean no longer being able to see his daughter when she came to visit)...so would have been likely to fight his "rescuers".
First they'd have to know that he's in a vet clinic in hoboken. Much easier to hide a name on a file than someone being in the cube.
SHIELD files are easier to break into than an elementary school principal's if history is any indicator.
SHIELD files are easier to break into than an elementary school principal's if history is any indicator.
Depends on who knows... Most of this season has been about how frustrated people get when only ONE person knows SHIELD's Secrets...
If only Coulson and Skye know... it probably hasn't even been written down.
OR he's been put on the index... who knows with some of these directions ;)
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Am I the only one that thinks what they did to Cal is f!!~ing horrifying?
** spoiler omitted **
The way I understood that they didn't change anything about his personality, they simply wiped away the painful memories that drove him insane. The Cal we see at the end of the episode is the version of him that would have happened naturally had his choice of wife been more fortunate.
I'm not sure how I feel about that. On the one hand I have to agree with you, Rynjin. His fate is somewhat terrifying on a conceptual level. Understanding if it is the same of killing him or not requires all sort of messy questions like what does "him" mean - are you a sum of your memories?
But even though philosophically the power to wipe minds like that could be extremely problematic... I think Cal is better off for what they did to him. His life since the run in with Whitehall has been one very long nightmare. In affect, what SHIELD did to him is more like putting someone under for a painful surgery than it is like killing the man he was. They just deleted the trauma and the long years of suffering from it from his brain, and let him carry on as he would have otherwise.
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Am I the only one that thinks what they did to Cal is f@*&ing horrifying?
I'd find it equally horrifying if it worked how you seem to think it does. That doesn't seem to be the case. When we saw the rest of the TAHITI something really stuck out at me:
They were the same people. We saw them before and after and they were the same people in almost all meaningful ways.
They didn't remember being SHIELD agents, but aside from that? They believed in the same things, had the same principles and most of the same issues (except those directly related to the removed memories). Cal is still himself, mostly, just without the memories of the last few decades and a name change.
Now, why that is could be a subject for debate, with people being more than the sum of their memories, and TAHITI only changing memories very selectively (most of our personality is actually determined by the time we're four years old...I doubt TAHITI messes too much with early childhood memories), being the two most obvious theories...but whatever way you look at it, it's not meaningfully the death of personality or identity, since while the name might change, who the person is does not.
This way is not better than simply locking him up.
I am at best tentatively pro-execution anyway.
I disagree, because you're misinterpreting what the process in question does.
I find "death of personality" to be FAR worse.
Agreed, but this isn't that.
He was resigned to his fate of being locked up for the rest of his life in some SHIELD prison. He'd made peace with that. It would have been a fitting punishment (he seemed to HATE being confined), and affords a chance to properly rehabilitate him and fix some of the psychological damage he'd suffered due to trauma and his undead wife mind f*!*ing him for 25 years, combined with a cocktail of drugs that included "gorilla testosterone and peppermint".
That chance is gone. If they ever need him again and reverse the mind wipe (if it's even possible, which is unclear), he'll be the same old Cal. Erratic, trustworthy only as long as his daughter is on hand, and possibly with a full-on murder-hate boner for the people who violated his mind.
What makes you think he didn't know?
The conversation he had with Skye very intentionally (on the writers part) hinted that they would lock him up...but they never actually said that, and looking back on it, every word said makes just as much sense if it's regarding what actually happened. Only the assumption we had that they'd lock him up makes the conversation about that.
He never makes any references about being locked up, only 'Going away forever'...that strikes me as him knowing exactly what's to come, in retrospect. Which likely means he won't be especially upset with SHIELD for doing it if he ever does snap out of it.
I think that Cal himself requested it.
Knowing what he's been focused on all this time, you think he'd ask to forget his daughter just for the sake of his own peace of mind? I cannot agree.
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I think that Cal himself requested it.
He requested that we stop using spoiler tags?
I'm expecting Skye to have a puppy next season.
... or a kitten.
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Skye can only have a pet if she promises to name it Lockheed.
No. Lockjaw
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Skye can only have a pet if she promises to name it Lockheed.No. Lockjaw
Lockjaw needs to show up in the Inhumans movie, so I think he's out. If I'm honest, I'm not sure they could even use Lockheed, since he's tied to a mutant. Come to think of it, with the exception of Lockheed and Lockjaw, I can't think of any other Marvel pets. Apparently, Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends had a dog named Ms. Lion, so I guess that would work as a continuity joke.