Agents of Shield


Television

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You do realize he hasn't had his "Hyde juice" for awhile right. Besides it's not like he doesn't have "good" moments.

I have to say about the Inhuman/Shield, I did not see that coming.

Liberty's Edge

Notice the vials were empty and Cal started grinning all crazy-like.

I suppose part of it will come down to how spur of the moment things were. If this was the plan from the beginning of if Gonzales hit a trigger.

Liberty's Edge

Well, that's a thing that happened.

I mean, I expected things to end in tears, but not like that. Still, it sets up a very interesting end game for the season finale.

Spoiler:
I must admit to also having enjoyed Raina's 'boy who cried wolf' moment and her desperation to get people to believe her at the end there. That was amusing even suspecting she was right.


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Well being put back together like that would change anyone. But I wasn't expecting her to become there "Magneto".

Scarab Sages

First quick note: For those who still don't get it....Spoiler is your friend!

As for the episode.....

Spoiler:
They managed to surprise me, at least. I really thought they were going to do the expected and keep Raina as a manipulative b&+*&. Didn't think they'd put her on the side of trying to stop it. Still, this could lead to some interesting character development. In future, will Raina struggle to try and change the things she sees, only to finally just accept that you cannot change what will be? Or will continuously trying to change things, and failing, slowly drive her mad?

Skye's mom - well, she went from nice Zen Mom to full on psycho in about 2.3 seconds. Maybe her time with Zabo, searching for their daughter and doing bad things, changed her more than she ever was willing to let on. The personality shift was...weird. I wonder if she planned that all along, or if Cal slipped her some of his formula, knowing it might bring out a bad side of her? They did show him with a near empty vile and several empty ones. So either he drank them, and is getting ready to f~!$ some people up. Or, (not so) Zen Mom drank it (willingly or not) and...hilarity ensues. Or, maybe a bit of both.

I was actually sad to see Gonzales die. That scene, and his willingness to let Coulson continue as director of SHIELD (with guidance) had really made me start to like him.

It was awesome to see Theta Protocol as a Helicarrier!!

Lastly, good-bye Mack. I certainly won't miss you. You were kind of an a%*$&*#.

Liberty's Edge

Krensky wrote:


Except the MCU doesn't have the Fantastic Four, and the early Fantastic Four stories often were about being different and feared.

Which Marvel stopped doing then began focusing on how different mutants were. In a world where 50% or more of the population is different. It would make sense if it was a world where 89-90% of the population were normal and the remaining 10-20% were mutants and non-mutants. In a world where some of the most human looking villains accomplish some of the worst crimes. With no way for the average person to know who is a mutant and non-mutant. It makes no sense for mutants/Inhumans to be singled out and non-mutants given a free pass.

Krensky wrote:


The most outré poison known to the general public in the MCU is probably Emil Blonsky/the Abomination, with the Hulk or Red Skull being a close second.

I kind of agree at this point though in the MCU the public knows there some good mutants as well as bad mutants. Good non-mutants and bad ones. It's just Marvel clumsy and heavy handed way of pushing the racism angle in a world that's been different from day one. If anything given what happened with Civil War. Their should have been a backlash against anyone and everyone that had a super ability of any sort. Mutant and non-mutant imo.

Liberty's Edge

As for Skye mom personality transformation it fits the character. Yet at the same time I wonder if they are trying to rehash a female version of Magneto. Which has been done to death imo. It should be interesting to see if she can really start a war and/or if all her people will truly follow her. I'm also expecting Skye to be a version of Scarlet witch who was a supporter then fought against Magneto.

I do like Aberzombie theory about Sky mom. It would make for a better reason for the sudden personality shift. Or it could have been Gordon who fed her the vials as well. At one point in the show he walks in on the character and walks toward her. Loke he had a purpose in mind. Or it simply could have been Hal trying to stir the pot to cause trouble.


The more I think about it the more it annoys me that Skye's mom is turning into a psycho b#++*. It does not matter how powerful they are, they are outnumbered and outgunned. At worse case, Shield nukes them and goodbye local inhuman problem. No matter what, they would loose, so peace is the best chance they have of survivng.


Having said that, I abhor the list that Shield does for any metahuman. It is wrong. If the metahoman screws up, then yes put them on the list. But not until them. What happened to personal freedom and innocent until proven guilty?

Liberty's Edge

memorax wrote:
Krensky wrote:
The most outré poison known to the general public in the MCU is probably Emil Blonsky/the Abomination, with the Hulk or Red Skull being a close second.

I kind of agree at this point though in the MCU the public knows there some good mutants as well as bad mutants. Good non-mutants and bad ones. It's just Marvel clumsy and heavy handed way of pushing the racism angle in a world that's been different from day one. If anything given what happened with Civil War. Their should have been a backlash against anyone and everyone that had a super ability of any sort. Mutant and non-mutant imo.

My point was that the three people we've seen who don't look human are kind of big and scary. I mean, probably almost everyone in the world saw footage of the Abomination and the Hulk breaking Harlem. If they didn't, they certainly saw the Battle of New York, and yeah, the Hulk looks like a big green human, but that's still more normal than the inhumans, who were designed to look like alien species.

Just look at how people stare or react negatively to people with birth defects as 'mild' as a cleft palate or albinism. You honestly thing Gordon or Raina could live a normal open life? That it's just Marvel being heavy handed in discussing the struggles and problems of the other? The editors and writers have acknowledged that it doesn't make sense for the general public in the Marvel Universe to care about how a person got there powers, but that that's missing the point of anti-mutant bigotry in the MU. Plus consider that other than mutants people with powers (excluding aliens) are generally using technology and science (so in theory anyone could do the dame thing) or are one off freakish accidents. Mutants could be anyone. Even your kids.

The Inhumans aren't mutants. They're the remnants of a Kree supersoldier program. There are no mutants in the MCU, and until the incident in Puerto Rico every known person with powers was man-made or an accident of some sort.

Spoiler:
As for Jiaying's personality change, despite their claims otherwise, the Inhumans have always been shown to be essentially human, with the same virtues and flaws as the rest of us. So the question is did she plan on scuttling the talks or not. If she did then Cal may have been dosing her, or she's always been crazy ever since Skye was taken.

It's maybe more likely that she's never really dealt with the insanely extreme amount of mental and emotional trauma and the accompanying PTSD from her run in with Hydra and still emotionally blames SHIELD for her daughter disappearing despite the fact that it was Hydra. Then Gonzales set her off with the Index and mention of them having both been scared by Hydra.

There's also the possibility that she's filling the role of Maximus, which means she's as insane as Cal and there's no reason beyond her actions other then gaining and keeping power. She was calm and collected as long as she was indisputably the most powerful person in her society. Then Raina and later SHIELD showed up and endangered that.

Liberty's Edge

Sharoth wrote:
Having said that, I abhor the list that Shield does for any metahuman. It is wrong. If the metahoman screws up, then yes put them on the list. But not until them. What happened to personal freedom and innocent until proven guilty?

* Hands you your Team Rogers t-shirt.

Remember though that the Index started covering a very small amount of people who got their powers via accident or on purpose and SHIELD found out about them because they made a scene.

The introduction of the Inhumans changes that to registering people for who they are, not for what they can do. I'm curious if that's going to be an element in Cap's objection. I certainly expect Cap to mention WWII in CA3.


memorax wrote:
Krensky wrote:


Except the MCU doesn't have the Fantastic Four, and the early Fantastic Four stories often were about being different and feared.

Which Marvel stopped doing then began focusing on how different mutants were. In a world where 50% or more of the population is different. It would make sense if it was a world where 89-90% of the population were normal and the remaining 10-20% were mutants and non-mutants. In a world where some of the most human looking villains accomplish some of the worst crimes. With no way for the average person to know who is a mutant and non-mutant. It makes no sense for mutants/Inhumans to be singled out and non-mutants given a free pass.

Krensky wrote:


The most outré poison known to the general public in the MCU is probably Emil Blonsky/the Abomination, with the Hulk or Red Skull being a close second.

I kind of agree at this point though in the MCU the public knows there some good mutants as well as bad mutants. Good non-mutants and bad ones. It's just Marvel clumsy and heavy handed way of pushing the racism angle in a world that's been different from day one. If anything given what happened with Civil War. Their should have been a backlash against anyone and everyone that had a super ability of any sort. Mutant and non-mutant imo.

Marvel and MCU are not the same thing. At this point in the timeline, as far as the public knows there are a handful of enhanced people running around, almost all of which were the result of one-off science experiments. Shield knows of a bunch of others on their index, but these are not known to the public at large, and from what we have seen only a minority of those individuals are of a pretty minor power level.

In contrast, the Inhumans are the first group of "natural" enhanced people, many of which have powers far in excess to anything currently on the Index. Shield was almost completely unaware of their existence, and has no ideas of their full capability or numbers. Shield has always been nervous about the enhanced/aliens (See the first Avengers movie). Why wouldn't they be extremely paranoid about a large faction of enhanced with incredible powers which Shield knows JACK about.


Krensky wrote:
Sharoth wrote:
Having said that, I abhor the list that Shield does for any metahuman. It is wrong. If the metahoman screws up, then yes put them on the list. But not until them. What happened to personal freedom and innocent until proven guilty?

* Hands you your Team Rogers t-shirt.

Remember though that the Index started covering a very small amount of people who got their powers via accident or on purpose and SHIELD found out about them because they made a scene.

The introduction of the Inhumans changes that to registering people for who they are, not for what they can do. I'm curious if that's going to be an element in Cap's objection. I certainly expect Cap to mention WWII in CA3.

SWEET!!! ~puts on my Team Rogers t-shirt~ I always wanted one of these.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Sharoth wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Sharoth wrote:
Having said that, I abhor the list that Shield does for any metahuman. It is wrong. If the metahoman screws up, then yes put them on the list. But not until them. What happened to personal freedom and innocent until proven guilty?

* Hands you your Team Rogers t-shirt.

Remember though that the Index started covering a very small amount of people who got their powers via accident or on purpose and SHIELD found out about them because they made a scene.

The introduction of the Inhumans changes that to registering people for who they are, not for what they can do. I'm curious if that's going to be an element in Cap's objection. I certainly expect Cap to mention WWII in CA3.

SWEET!!! ~puts on my Team Rogers t-shirt~ I always wanted one of these.

p.s. - I will have to get a t-shirt made with that on it. The shield on the front with Team Rogers over it, then on the back something about personal freedom and liberty or the quote that Steve gave Fury in Cap 2.

Liberty's Edge

I keep forgetting the univeres in the show and the comics are different. The whole mutant problem in comics has been done to death and IMO just unrealistic with a world filled of superhumans. The show and movies are still relatively empty if netahumans at least at this time. I hope that Skye mom personality change is not a attempt to make the character in a female version of Magneto. That character as well forgot that despite mutants being powerful they are outnumbered. So I agree with Sharoth that peace or at least a cold war style of peace is the only viable option. If Shield does not nuke them. Then it's Hydra, Kree or other world governments IMO. Magneto colony of zgenosha only lasted as long as it did because it was protected by writers grace in the comics.

@ Krensky

I get your point about the average person and mutant racism. I still maintain that in comics it makes no sense for mutants and only mutants to be singled out IMO. The Thing a giant tall talking orange rock gets a free pass on racism because he received his powers from cosmic radiation. Yet Cyclops is to be feared because he received his from nuclear fallout. While looking human to boot. If mutants had a tattoo or some kind of mark that made them stand out. They don't. Put Firestar, hlHumzn Torch and Toro in the same room and no one really knows the difference. Now if they had racism and bigotry against any and all mutants and non- mutants it would make more sense. At this point Marvel is forcing the mutant issue,

Liberty's Edge

4 people marked this as a favorite.

In Ben Grimm's defense: he is smarter, better spoken, more cultured and generally less of an a*!%@!* that Scott Summers.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

3 people marked this as a favorite.
memorax wrote:
I keep forgetting the univeres in the show and the comics are different. The whole mutant problem in comics has been done to death and IMO just unrealistic with a world filled of superhumans. The show and movies are still relatively empty if netahumans at least at this time. I hope that Skye mom personality change is not a attempt to make the character in a female version of Magneto. That character as well forgot that despite mutants being powerful they are outnumbered. So I agree with Sharoth that peace or at least a cold war style of peace is the only viable option. If Shield does not nuke them. Then it's Hydra, Kree or other world governments IMO. Magneto colony of zgenosha only lasted as long as it did because it was protected by writers grace in the comics.

Doubtful. Jiaying's personality did not change.

After being tortured by Whitehall, she fears all humans. When Commander Gonzoles/Agent Skye/Dr. Zabo talked about the Index, it hit on her fears of Inhumans being persecuted. Watch the actions and dialog of "the Real S.H.I.E.L.D.", and Agent May, and you will see just how valid her fear is.

So, her reaction to S.H.I.E.L.D. may be extreme, but I can see where she is coming from.

Liberty's Edge

Sharoth wrote:
Sharoth wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Sharoth wrote:
Having said that, I abhor the list that Shield does for any metahuman. It is wrong. If the metahoman screws up, then yes put them on the list. But not until them. What happened to personal freedom and innocent until proven guilty?

* Hands you your Team Rogers t-shirt.

Remember though that the Index started covering a very small amount of people who got their powers via accident or on purpose and SHIELD found out about them because they made a scene.

The introduction of the Inhumans changes that to registering people for who they are, not for what they can do. I'm curious if that's going to be an element in Cap's objection. I certainly expect Cap to mention WWII in CA3.

SWEET!!! ~puts on my Team Rogers t-shirt~ I always wanted one of these.
p.s. - I will have to get a t-shirt made with that on it. The shield on the front with Team Rogers over it, then on the back something about personal freedom and liberty or the quote that Steve gave Fury in Cap 2.

I fully expect Disney to be all over that come next year.

Liberty's Edge

Lord Fyre wrote:
memorax wrote:
I keep forgetting the univeres in the show and the comics are different. The whole mutant problem in comics has been done to death and IMO just unrealistic with a world filled of superhumans. The show and movies are still relatively empty if netahumans at least at this time. I hope that Skye mom personality change is not a attempt to make the character in a female version of Magneto. That character as well forgot that despite mutants being powerful they are outnumbered. So I agree with Sharoth that peace or at least a cold war style of peace is the only viable option. If Shield does not nuke them. Then it's Hydra, Kree or other world governments IMO. Magneto colony of zgenosha only lasted as long as it did because it was protected by writers grace in the comics.

Doubtful. Jiaying's personality did not change.

After being tortured by Whitehall, she fears all humans. When Commander Gonzoles/Agent Skye/Dr. Zabo talked about the Index, it hit on her fears of Inhumans being persecuted. Watch the actions and dialog of "the Real S.H.I.E.L.D.", and Agent May, and you will see just how valid her fear is.

So, her reaction to S.H.I.E.L.D. may be extreme, but I can see where she is coming from.

There may be a bit of Maximus style megalomaniac crazy involved as well. I mean the red-head in the background and escorting people around looks a lot like I'd expect Medusa to. Gordon is obviously a non-dog version of Lockjaw. Lincoln's underlying electron manipulating power is largely the same as Black Bolt's without the link to his voice and control issues. Etc.

I don't really want to draw direct links since at the moment it seems the Inhumans are equal parts X-Men style mutants as they are Kree-engineered super soldiers at this point, but we've got four years until the Inhumans movie so there's lots of time to shake it all up.


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Sharoth wrote:
Having said that, I abhor the list that Shield does for any metahuman. It is wrong. If the metahoman screws up, then yes put them on the list. But not until them. What happened to personal freedom and innocent until proven guilty?

Disagree. Besides the tired old debate of 'you need to register guns and get licenses to drive'... Metahumans are way more deadly then that, and not even to just 'some people.'

From SHIELD's point of view... if they 'wait till something happens'... the world is destroyed. That's been the point of both Avengers movies after all... One person/place/thing gets out of line and humanity looks at extinction.

'Wait and see' is REALLY a stupid idea when there are so many world-killers walking the street.

One thing I really like about MCU's 'Index'... is that it sounds all big and scary, but it's really not. Agents go in, talk to the person a bit... and If they are not meglamaniacs out to kill everyone, they send them home.

Now the comic civil war, where they wanted everyone who was long established to unmask and register their names and families in a computer that is constantly hacked by bad guys.... When Fury had already established that he KNEW who all those heroes were anyway... Yeah, that was stupid story from beginning to end.

Coulson in charge of the index? Yeah. I have no problem with that. Gonzales' kill em all and sift through the ashes mentality?? Yeah... that's not what the SHIELD index is supposed to be about.

I know some people are fond of the actor from something before..... but I never liked Gonzales. Wanted to punch him in the face everytime he opened his mouth.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sharoth wrote:
Having said that, I abhor the list that Shield does for any metahuman. It is wrong. If the metahoman screws up, then yes put them on the list. But not until them. What happened to personal freedom and innocent until proven guilty?

That does not exist in the spook mindset. Keep in mind that SHIELD is not an American organisation.


Lord Fyre wrote:

Doubtful. Jiaying's personality did not change.

After being tortured by Whitehall, she fears all humans. When Commander Gonzoles/Agent Skye/Dr. Zabo talked about the Index, it hit on her fears of Inhumans being persecuted. Watch the actions and dialog of "the Real S.H.I.E.L.D.", and Agent May, and you will see just how valid her fear is.

So, her reaction to S.H.I.E.L.D. may be extreme, but I can see where she is coming from.

Yeah, that was the part I was most impressed by. The scene took me by surprise... but the more I thought about it, the more understandable it was.

Spoiler:

The other big thing to realize - her people have lived peacefully, in secret isolation, for decades? Longer?

Suddenly SHIELD discovers them and their headquarters. This is every fear they have, all coming true at once. (Plus the concern about the mystery cargo in SHIELD's possession.) SHIELD's current role in the world is pretty undefined. You effectively have this unsanctioned private army flying up to threaten their home, and telling them: "Your people are under our authority now."

Now, intentionally instigating a war seems dangerous to her people. But - especially by painting SHIELD as the aggressor - it also might drive her people to fight, despite their nature having been shown as peaceful thus far. And she retains her moral authority while also inspiring her people to use their full power against this enemy.

Makes sense. Especially given all she has undergone. Especially given her confession to Cal about how her ordeals have changed her.

It doesn't mean that what she did was a good thing, or was 'right'. But you can understand her position. And it makes for awfully good tv.

Dark Archive

Spoiler:
Words that don't matter don't tend to make it into an episode with limited time to run, so I wonder why time was spent describing the terrigen crystal and it's metal impurities from the Diviner case. She could have just said 'synthesized terrigen crystal' and been done with it, and not explained to us about the metal, which suggests that there might be some relevance to it, such as that the crystal might have different or unpredictable effects (also suggested by her 'requires experimentation' line).

Might not be the last we see of Gonzalez.

Might also be a lead in to Civil War, if she detonates a larger synthesized crystal in a city somewhere, and causes dozens, or perhaps even hundreds, of new Inhumans to sprout up (and tons of deaths!), inciting a call for metahuman roundup and registration and whatnot...

Liberty's Edge

Set wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Remember that the mists didn't do anything to Trip. It was him kicking the Diviner and causing to to break and embedding a shard of the metal in his stomach that killed him, not the mists themselves.

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Well, that's a thing that happened.

I mean, I expected things to end in tears, but not like that. Still, it sets up a very interesting end game for the season finale.

** spoiler omitted **

Its more complicated than that. EVERY time she's cried wolf there's been one running around. By making a suggestion she knows the leader of the inhumans wouldn't take she set the course of history onto her vision, which makes the current presidente for immortal life of the terrigan gas republic look like a war mongerer. The plan still works even with fearless leaders deception: now it looks like she was trying to take her place as the assassination victim in a noble sacrifice.


Shield really did hold the idiot ball there. Very realistic one for military though, which can't tell a show of strength from a threat showing up at someone's secret home.


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Krensky wrote:
Set wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Jing explained that.

Spoiler:
The new crystals are from melting down a Diviner so they have veins of the same deadly stuff throughout them. So the new crystals are simply Teragen Mist, it's Teragen mist laced with Diviner fragments. Transformations for Inhumans, Death for Humans.

which brings up an interesting point. The current gen of Inhumans are created with this diviner laced mist, while Skye and Raina were created with a pure terragen mist. I wonder if that has an impact on things.

Liberty's Edge

Greylurker wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Set wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Jing explained that.

** spoiler omitted **

Yes, I know. I was responding to a question and speculation about why she explained it by Set.


The list is pretty minor when you think about just how restrictive most governments are about weapons in the hands of civilians. A super that can throw fire is functionally no different than a normal person equipped with a flame thrower... NO government would let some civilian wander around with a flame thrower. And Skye/Quake has the power of a mobile artillery cannon... I can see why people fear her. The list is a pretty tame response, most governments would lock people up who have powers they wouldn't bother with good or bad.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Aranna wrote:
The list is pretty minor when you think about just how restrictive most governments are about weapons in the hands of civilians. A super that can throw fire is functionally no different than a normal person equipped with a flame thrower... NO government would let some civilian wander around with a flame thrower. And Skye/Quake has the power of a mobile artillery cannon... I can see why people fear her. The list is a pretty tame response, most governments would lock people up who have powers they wouldn't bother with good or bad.

Unless, of course, S.H.I.E.L.D. might be concerned that doing so would cause a unified response from the meta-humans.

And that humans would lose - badly.


Meh.

That seems unlikely. 1st you'd have to get meta-humans to agree on something... anything, and at their hearts they're still human. Sooooo unified isn't likely.

Secondly, the mob would need a target. if they were really afraid of that kind of reaction the dangerous meta's would just 'disappear.' Could be SHIELD... Could be HYDRA... could be Xavier. But they just don't show up for their job one day and don't leave a note.

Meanwhile they're locked up in one of the underground prisons somewhere.

I REALLY can't picture Fury or the rest sitting back and saying that they would have protected the world better, but they were afraid of what someone would say....


memorax wrote:

I keep forgetting the univeres in the show and the comics are different. The whole mutant problem in comics has been done to death and IMO just unrealistic with a world filled of superhumans. The show and movies are still relatively empty if netahumans at least at this time. I hope that Skye mom personality change is not a attempt to make the character in a female version of Magneto. That character as well forgot that despite mutants being powerful they are outnumbered. So I agree with Sharoth that peace or at least a cold war style of peace is the only viable option. If Shield does not nuke them. Then it's Hydra, Kree or other world governments IMO. Magneto colony of zgenosha only lasted as long as it did because it was protected by writers grace in the comics.

Well you might be in luck then...Rumor has it that after the 616 Universe ends and we get a "new" Marvel Universe, X-men/mutants in general are going to get there own "setting", and will no longer interact with the rest of the Marvel universe. I don't know if that really means "Mutants are no longer part of the main Marvel timeline/universe" or if it's just wanting to make sure their stories don't cross over into any other properties (which muddles the rights)


Aranna wrote:

The list is pretty minor when you think about just how restrictive most governments are about weapons in the hands of civilians. A super that can throw fire is functionally no different than a normal person equipped with a flame thrower... NO government would let some civilian wander around with a flame thrower.

The restrictions on them are pretty lax in most states, especially if you make them yourself.


Why every mutant in the marvel universe doesn't just wander into new jersey and splash around in a random puddle screaming "help help this toxic waste has given me the ability to fly! I must now become a crime fighter!" is beyond me.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

Why every mutant in the marvel universe doesn't just wander into new jersey and splash around in a random puddle screaming "help help this toxic waste has given me the ability to fly! I must now become a crime fighter!" is beyond me.

Followed by suing someone. For all the 'accidents' in the Marvel U, there sure are a lot of poor superheroes.

If Iron Man and Batman taught us anything... You can get away with a lot if you're rich! Angel did pretty well even AS a mutant.


Your genes have been altered by monsanto brand mutagen. You are now the intellectual property of monsanto corporation.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Your genes have been altered by monsanto brand mutagen. You are now the intellectual property of monsanto corporation.

Didn't they do that in the 2099 line??


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Your genes have been altered by monsanto brand mutagen. You are now the intellectual property of monsanto corporation.

I think they already do this. If a company does anything with your genes even just map them then they own the rights to them in the Law. Although I do vaguely remember a person suing to get those rights back... I wonder how that turned out.

Sovereign Court

Yeah, because GMOs can actually alter your genetic makeup if you eat them. Cause that's how genetic therapy works.

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

^Not sure if serious.....

Sovereign Court

I'm sorry, sarcasm vessels must not be installed on your monitor, because it should be dripping with it right now.

The Exchange

Sharoth wrote:
Having said that, I abhor the list that Shield does for any metahuman. It is wrong. If the metahoman screws up, then yes put them on the list. But not until them. What happened to personal freedom and innocent until proven guilty?

Poofed away when Gordon poofed his way into the most secure base SHIELD have and got out with no apparent difficulty.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

phantom1592 wrote:
That seems unlikely. 1st you'd have to get meta-humans to agree on something... anything, and at their hearts they're still human. Sooooo unified isn't likely.

Actually, throwing them into underground prisons makes it very likely that the metahumans would agree on something.

Yes, their hearts are still human - and forming an Us against them mentality is a very human reaction. (This is why Humans fight so many wars.) Rounding up Metahumans and throwing them into prisons -as you suggested- would be the most likely (possibly the only) thing that would unify them.

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Hama wrote:
I'm sorry, sarcasm vessels must not be installed on your monitor, because it should be dripping with it right now.

Ok, good. I can appreciate sarcasm.

Sovereign Court

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I'll start whining about chemtrails next :D

Dark Archive

Hama wrote:
I'll start whining about chemtrails next :D

Flouride in my water! Corrupting my precious bodily fluids!

Rainbow colored chemtrails making the chiddren gay!

Vaccines cause autism!

GMO crops will spread killer pollen / seeds that murder any non GMO crops on nearby farms!

It would, of course, be hilarious if one of these things was true in the Agents of SHIELD-verse, because Hydra actually *is* using a vaccination program to inject people with mind-altering chemicals to make them suggestible, and the agents have to deal with it, without publicizing the threat and feeding the paranoia...

Shadow Lodge

Aranna wrote:
The list is pretty minor when you think about just how restrictive most governments are about weapons in the hands of civilians. A super that can throw fire is functionally no different than a normal person equipped with a flame thrower... NO government would let some civilian wander around with a flame thrower.

The difference is that you have the option to put down a flamethrower and walk away from it.

Inhumans can't "put down" being an inhuman.


Kthulhu wrote:
Aranna wrote:
The list is pretty minor when you think about just how restrictive most governments are about weapons in the hands of civilians. A super that can throw fire is functionally no different than a normal person equipped with a flame thrower... NO government would let some civilian wander around with a flame thrower.

The difference is that you have the option to put down a flamethrower and walk away from it.

Inhumans can't "put down" being an inhuman.

Except when they can.

In the comics they have discovered multiple way to inhibit/restrict/remove mutant powers. It's really why I constantly rolled my eyes when Rogue whined about not being able to kiss people. Two issues earlier she was clamped with an inhibiter band. Amazing the things that they 'forget' once it's inconvient to the angst...

But yeah, if you have the power to breathe water or climb walls and are a decent member of society... no problem. If you are a walking nuclear bomb like Nitro or Someone who has used these super-powers to kill and maime innocent people...

You get them taken away.

Nothing wrong with the SHIELD guys learning about the powers in a way to protect the world from them.

The Exchange

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Kthulhu wrote:
Aranna wrote:
The list is pretty minor when you think about just how restrictive most governments are about weapons in the hands of civilians. A super that can throw fire is functionally no different than a normal person equipped with a flame thrower... NO government would let some civilian wander around with a flame thrower.

The difference is that you have the option to put down a flamethrower and walk away from it.

Inhumans can't "put down" being an inhuman.

A better real world analogy would be mentally sick/damaged/whatever people. Once a government learns somebody has some sort of mental issue that *might* make them a risk to people around them, steps are taken. Sometimes as drastic is putting people in mental institutions which are not always good for them, simply because allowing them freedom is too risky. They can't control who they are or the genes they were born with, but they are still a risk.

It makes *sense* that people would want to keep tabs on somebody who can hurl fireballs around on a whim. Some measure of privacy in that persons' life is traded away for increased safety for himself and everyone else.

It's a complicated issue, but despite (or because?) of my liberal views, I am more inclined to agree that a list is needed. That, actually, a list is a pretty gentle solution given other alternatives. It is unfortunate, but compromises have to be made from ideals sometimes. Humanism wasn't invented with human flamethrowers in the equation.

The Exchange

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I mean the concept that all men are born equal relies on the fact that all men are born equal. If some of them are born with the potential to do incredible things (I'm not talking about something ephemeral and hard to measure such as intelligence but about the simplified case of the Inhumans who have supernatural powers) or to bring incredible devestation, the core concepts of equality have to be somewhat revised.

One of the least damaging changes you can make is to monitor people with power more carefully. For example, from what we have seen so far in the show, Gordon is capable of teleporting anywhere on earth with ease, ignoring laws about crossing borders and such. Why should he, unlike all other citizens, be able to do so? What makes him stand out above the law?

His very nature does. You can't really stop him from doing that. Or many other things that would be downright impossible for normal humans. So for every other person on the planet, governments will always know in which country that person is since borders are being monitored. It makes sense for somebody in charge to be able to tell where Gordon is, too.

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