At 20th level 21d6 damage isn't all that much, especially as a standard action with a limited number of uses... Granted 44/day is a lot of uses but a non-buffed single class (non-gestalt) two-handed fighter at 20th level can use that same standard action to deal 4d10+200 damage, and they can do that every round all day long if need be. Gestalt them with a bard for perfect saves and great skills, and bardic performance and your buffs will drive that up even higher...
edit: sorry, I didn't mean to rain on your parade... I'm all for people playing fun characters that they like even if they're not optimized. I was just surprised to see 21d6 mentioned as if it were a lot and thought I should point out that it wasn't all that high (disintegrate would deal almost twice that at 20th level). But if you'd have fun throwing around kamehame-ha blasts all day do it (just don't expect to blow up any planets, lol)
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I've always wondered how a 20/20 gestalt class stacks up against a 20th level class with 10 levels of mythic. Would they be comparable or would one blow the other out of the water?
I wonder how good an unchained monk//druid would be. Would love to see it paired with reincarnated druid. The monk that can shapeshift and never stays dead and needs no gear to be good.
Technically this breaks the OP guidelines but I am in a Gestalt campaign now that uses The Company of Dragons race Taninim, its class Dragon Exemplar and any PoW or SoP (Path of war, Spheres of Power) class.
As a grapple build Lung, my damage for one round equates to 12d8+101d6+322 and an almost unbeatable poison DC for 4 STR dmg for 6 rounds which averages to 729.5 dmg per round on a pinned opponent who is losing strength fast. It also gets poison acid breath for crippling hordes of enemies and the entirety of the miscellaneous combat maneuvers offered by Stalker.
I wonder how good an unchained monk//druid would be. Would love to see it paired with reincarnated druid. The monk that can shapeshift and never stays dead and needs no gear to be good.
I have been thinking of making this build. A Lawful Neutral badass who doesn't need your fancy smancy great sword to be boss.
If you can talk your GM into getting a Guided Weapon (3.5 I believe) you are never gonna need to worry about hitting a foe, and you are gonna hit like a mach truck.
And if you can get Dragonlance feats in get Lucky and take Fate's Favored for a +2 to all saves that makes Death Effect saves a +6 without counting your normal fort bonus. With a +4 to Fort at level 5 and not including your Con this can easily be a +10-+12 bonus against the one thing that can kill you.
Even if its not allowed, use a Half-Orc and the numbers continue along the same path.
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Step 1: Remove Alignment Restrictions
Step 2: Remove the "Alternate Class" Restrictions
Step 3: Paladin/Antipaladin
Unrelated, imagine if you could Gestalt different archetypes of the same together (Like Kitsune Trickster and Counterfeit Mage), or if you could Gestalt bloodlines for Sorcerers/Bloodragers and mysteries for Oracles. Or even Gestalting races together like Kitsune/Android or Kitsune/Nagaji.
Combine Gestalting with Variant Multiclassing (excluding the feat penalty), Mythic Tiers and Epic Levels? You are just asking for trouble, especially if you decide to multiclass into Spontaneous Arcane, Spontaneous Divine, Prepared Arcane/Divine, Psionics and Martial all at once...
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Alright, so obviously the book with the Occult Classes is ALLLLLMOSSST out, but I figure it's never too early to theorycraft. I wanna know what you guys think.
What is the best gestalt for a Kineticist? At first, the main one in my mind was Monk/Kineticist. Not for any sort of overpoweredness, I just liked it. But now I've been seriously wondering about the different combos. Something with Mutagen or Rage for extra HP to burn? Synthesist for the exact same reason? Unchained Rogue to go into melee, dual wielding light kinetic blades, while still maintaining ranged power?
Any other ideas anybody got? Maybe for the other classes too?
Now that it's actually out:
Kineticist: Scarred Witch Doctor (ignoring the godawful errata). Con and Dex is all you need. Blast with kineticist and if you're up against elemental resistance debuff with witch spells. And you have lots of utility slots on both sides.
3pp: Mystic from Amora Games Liber Influx Communis. You start with two elements, and eventually get a third and fourth. You are the Avatar.
Medium: Dunno, I don't like the medium, the spirits feel very bland.
3pp: Whatever gestalt you think of doig with the Medium can be done with more power and better flavor with Radiance Houses Occultist. If the Harrow Medium ever gets released, then you could gestalt Harrow Medium with Occultist and house nearly ten spirits at the same time. Just for lulz.
Mesmerist: Fighter or Cavalier. Psychic spells can be used with heavy armor, the stares work well with melee combat, bravery becomes actually semi useful, being a frontliner helps with implanting tricks mid combat if you need and mesmerist covers the fighters lack of outside combat abilities.
3pp: Anything with full BAB heavy armor and can use charisma. Warlords, Daevas, Battle Lords, etc.
Alternatively, Taskshaper. Consumate Liar + Glib Lie + Shapeshifting = best infiltrator ever.
Occultist: Wizard, Arcanist or any other Int full caster, because being int SAD is always powerful. Battle Host//Fighter or any other full BAB that can spare points for int without getting MAD. Occultist/Investigator//Wizard makes for a perfect Harry Dresden.
3pp: Same thing, really, with the addition of craft focused classes. Occultist//Artisan, Occultist//Vizier or Occultist//Machinesmith make for great item focused characters.
Psychic: You can use the psychiic instead of the wizard in any gestalt that uses wizard, except now you have an easier time wearing armor. Psychedelia Mutation Mind Psychic//Alchemist is astonishigly flavorful.
3pp: Same thing, anything you can gestalt with psion you can gestalt with psychic. Of special mention is the Mnemonic from Liber Influx Communis, a monk type class that uses int instead of wis and and specializes in memory theft, memory manipulation and punching poeplein the mind.
Spiritualit: Monk. Punch people while yor standphantom punches people. Get an Anger or Dedication Focus Phantom, put points in performance dance or acting so you pose with skill, say ORA ORA ORA, and name your standphantom after a song. Bonus points if the first and last names of your character start with Jo, Gio or a similar sound, no matter their race. Double jeopardy points if you choose your touch spells known inside a theme as your standsphantoms power.
Or you can be a boring person and go with cleric with the phantom of a champion of your deity. Better armor, nine level spells, wis focus. Or Druid if your DM allows you to have a Phantom and an Animal Companion at the same time. Gunslinger can work with you shooting and a Jealousy Phantom (your dead lover that you want to avenge, maybe?) protecting you in the frontlines.
3pp: Different monk type classes, for different JoJos! Gurus, Stalkers, Deadly Fist Soulknifes.
Or other wisdom using classes. If you're a boring non-JoJo person.
I really want to find a way to make Vexing Dodger work well into a character especially gestalt.
Because I think Unchained Rogue//Kensai Magus would be a bit of fun but Rogue is not that good. I considered going 1 level rogue to get Vexing Dodger and then adding something like Alchemist or something to add bombs and such onto the Magus's enhancement (And 8+Int on a Int focused character is sick)
Step 1: Remove Alignment Restrictions
Step 2: Remove the "Alternate Class" Restrictions
Step 3: Paladin/Antipaladin
If you are playing a Mythic game you can do this by taking the Beyond Morality Mythic Power
If you are playing a Mythic game you can do this by taking the Beyond Morality Mythic PowerStep 1: Remove Alignment Restrictions
Step 2: Remove the "Alternate Class" Restrictions
Step 3: Paladin/Antipaladin
Paladin of neutrality, he steals from the rich and murders the poor.
I have been wanting to try a Kungfu Genius Unchained Monk gestalted with Arcanist. Kungfu Genius was a 3.5 Feat that switched the monk to Int focus.
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Paladin of neutrality, he steals from the rich and murders the poor.If you are playing a Mythic game you can do this by taking the Beyond Morality Mythic PowerStep 1: Remove Alignment Restrictions
Step 2: Remove the "Alternate Class" Restrictions
Step 3: Paladin/Antipaladin
No, he specifically steals from the rich to give to the poor, and then tells the poor to buy booze, drugs and tobacco.
No, he specifically steals from the rich to give to the poor, and then tells the poor to buy booze, drugs and tobacco.Paladin of neutrality, he steals from the rich and murders the poor.If you are playing a Mythic game you can do this by taking the Beyond Morality Mythic PowerStep 1: Remove Alignment Restrictions
Step 2: Remove the "Alternate Class" Restrictions
Step 3: Paladin/Antipaladin
then he kicks orphan babies into the open windows of homes of loving parents who will care for them.
then he kicks orphan babies into the open windows of homes of loving parents who will care for them.No, he specifically steals from the rich to give to the poor, and then tells the poor to buy booze, drugs and tobacco.Paladin of neutrality, he steals from the rich and murders the poor.If you are playing a Mythic game you can do this by taking the Beyond Morality Mythic PowerStep 1: Remove Alignment Restrictions
Step 2: Remove the "Alternate Class" Restrictions
Step 3: Paladin/Antipaladin
But the parents only understand negative feedback shaping.
I am curious what Gestalt would work best with
Moss Lich
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Taking an Adlet and Gestalting it's racial hit dice with Oracle, Druid or Barbarian.
Alternatively, create a Druicle (Druid/Oracle) for any other character (which might fit for a Moss Lich)
Enjoy your sleep tonight~
Medium: Dunno, I don't like the medium, the spirits feel very bland.
3pp: Whatever gestalt you think of doig with the Medium can be done with more power and better flavor with Radiance Houses Occultist. If the Harrow Medium ever gets released, then you could gestalt Harrow Medium with Occultist and house nearly ten spirits at the same time. Just for lulz.
We're playing an 8th level gestalt, mythic tier 3 game and I set out to make a non-warrior fighter type using a champion focused medium (relic channeler)//oracle (warsighted, wood mystery)
With an elven branched spear +2 my 8th level character (thanks to spirit focus, racial heritage: halfling for fcb, wood bond, weapon finesse, and spirit bonus) has +19/+19/+14 for attack, and 1d8+14 to damage (again, spirit focus, seance bonus, spirit bonus, fcb, and mythic weapon finesse).
The character can switch their combat feats when necessary (they wear armor, so Arcane Armor Training may come in handy when channeling Archmage), uses a spear typically but can switch to club & shield or bow and still be pretty good in combat, can switch to trickster some days and be useful as a scout...
I always wanted to play a factotum or a changeling in 3.5 but we switched to Pathfinder before I got a chance to.
I don't know about the Occultist class you mentioned (we don't use 3pp so I don't ever look into it), but I think the Medium can work in gestalt :) Granted, I just made the character so I haven't had a chance to try it out.
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A Dwarven Bloodrager/Barbarian, using two of those steel hands from Giantslayer that let you use weapons one size category larger, and using the feats "Ambidextrous" and "Greater Two-Weapon Fighting," and he is wearing Adamantine Powered Armor from the technology guide. He is equipped with two Final Fantasy Swords Large Mithral Impact Greatswords.
Using my house rule where Mithral Weapons can be wielded without penalty as if they were one size category smaller (so a medium two-handed weapon would count as a medium one-handed weapon in the hands of a medium creature, or as a small two-handed weapon in the hands of a small creature), he would be able to effectively wield those two gigantic swords with one in each hand! In fact, he might even be able to use them as stilts! And since they are Impact, they would do damage as Huge weapons.
Whenever he saw an enemy worth clobbering, he would just go into a Rage and then use Charge, and then the enemy is just a bloodstain.
Because he is a Dwarf wearing powered armor, which increases his move speed by 10 feet, and he is both a Barbarian and a Bloodrager and thus gets Fast Movement twice, he would have a total move speed of 50 feet, or 100 whole charging!
Two Barbarians trapped in one tiny body. That is a lot of pent-up anger that needs to be vented.
A 3.5 changling slayer 10 is evil. Take the assassination talent and shapeshift into the big bads most trusted minion.
I love that this thread refuses to die.
I was kind of underwhelmed with the occult book, but a kineticist/scarred witch doctor does seem like an interesting combo. It's not full BAB and the skills are somewhat lacking but the control/debuffing of a witch seems like a good compliment to the kineticist's blasting and the Con synergy is awesome.
That is if you use the Pre-Errata Scarred Witch Doctor. After its Int based. Honestly I would use the post errata version and then toss on Lost Tradition from 3.0 to give them back their Con casting if I was the DM. It makes them pay a feat to synch back up.
Hmm Unchained Monk//Warpriest (Focused on Quarterstaff) with a Vanara (Advanced Template) with a Staff of Surprise would be loads of fun to play as the Monkey King.
I forgot that 'errata' (nerf*) was even a thing. It's such a worthless archetype if you use the new version.
Nah your new Max Casting stat is treated as +2 higher so you can get a Int of 22. Which is pretty nice.
Seems they are looking at Dragonlance for all things Half-Orc. They gave them Lucky (Adds a +1 luck bonus to all saves) and Spellcasting Prodigy (Treat casting stat as +2 higher for purposes of how many bonus spells per day you can cast.)
I guess it's not completely worthless for a half-Orc... It's pretty craptastic for actual orcs though (which is ironic since it's an Orc archetype not a half-Orc one)
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An Android Rogue/Bard.
Androids may be emotionless, but that gives them the best poker faces, making them excellent at bluffing. They are also really good at math, so that would make them good musicians (I am using Data from Star Trek as an example for both cases)
With a Rogue/Bard, you could have a mechanical music box in one corner playing a lute to distract the Half-Orc guard, and then you could Sneak Attack him from the shadows, and everybody knows that androids can be incredibly precise.
Advanced Vanara
Unchained Monk 4/Fist of the Forest 1/Shiba Protector 1//Warpriest 6
Flaw Feat: Great Fortitude
Flaw Feat: Iron Will
1rst: Power Attack
Monk: Dodge
Monk: Improved Grapple
3rd: Alertness
4th: Bonus: Combat Expertise
5th: Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff)
Monk: Mobility
Bonus: Weapon Spec (Quarterstaff)
Base Stats
Str: 14 +4 (18) +4
Dex: 18 +2 +4 (24) +7
Con: 16 +4 (20) +5
Int: 16 +4 (20) +5
Wis: 18 +2 +4 (24) +7
Cha: 14 -2 +4 (16) +3
AC 10+7+7+5+1 = 30 [Touch] +2(NA) = 32 Total
Speed 40
Climb 30 (Post Errata)
To Hit: +5(BAB)+4(Str)+1(WF)+7(Wis)= +17
To Dmg: +4(Str)+7(Wis)+2(WS)= +13 Dmg (1d8+13 Quarterstaff)
Just a rough build I threw together, seems like it would be fun.
Note: Shiba Protector is not needed if you can get a Guided AoMF for like 5K. Which frees up 3 feat slots.
If u applied PA to that it would be +15 to hit and 1d8+17 to dmg and with unchained monk you get two hits a round at +15 so long as their unarmed attacks.
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Race: Tengu
Primary Class: Swashbuckler/Samurai (Sword Saint archetype)
Secondary Class: Rogue (see PF Unchained's Variant Multiclassing Rules)
Weapons: Adamantine Wakizashi, Adamantine Elven Curved Blade, Mighty Composite Longbow, Gauntlets, +1 Chakram w/ Returning, Adamantine Dagger
Armor: Adamantine Haramaki, Masterwork Buckler, Barbed Vest
Magic Items: Wand of Mage Armor, Wand of Cure Light Wounds, Wand of Magic Missile, Wand of Entropic Shield
The Sword Saint archetype for the Samurai replaces all Mount-related abilities (and the mount) with Sword abilities. The Swashbuckler grants Panache maneuvers as well as an improved version of Weapon Finesse, which functions with all One-Handed piercing melee weapons.
By taking a secondary class, in this case Rogue, I trade half of my feats for the ability to use Sneak Attacks and other slightly weakened Rogue abilities.
Tengus, as a race, are automatically proficient with all bladed melee weapons.
The gauntlets are to protect me from cutting myself when I use the Chakram, and the Adamantine Haramaki grants me DR 1/- and +1 AC without imposing any check penalty or spell failure chance (which of course is irrelevant as this character cannot use spells)
The masterwork buckler? No check penalty, because masterwork.
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If only I could gestalt two Secondary classes... It would make the loss of feats less punishing overall.
Your right, also its 33 because of the +1 from Monk's AC bonus increase,
But yeah they would be dealing +15 to both melee attacks with the staff and dealing 1d8+17 on each shot. 2d8+34 is nice for a level 5 build.
the swashbuckler/samurai is an interesting concept but you end up with only 4 skill points (which isn't a dealbreaker but is kind of low for gestalt), a poor will save (which you should always try to avoid), and no casting ability...
you might be better off going swashbuckler/kensai or swordsaint/arcane duelist- both could give you a lot of the same feel but with all good saves and 6 level casting (though if you want a Dex build the swordsaint/arcane duelist would either need a 1 level dip in swashbuckler or a dueling sword and weapon finesse/slashing grace).
a swashbuckler/paladin could be pretty great too, though that might change the feel too much... only a 4 level caster but all amazing saves, LoH to self heal when something manages to hit you, and smite (when you get to use it) is a sweet buff to damage and defenses.
Paladin//Swashbuckler of Cayden Cailean would be pretty awesome.
I like the Daring Cavelier//Bard for that swashbuckler feel and level to damage as well as the force multiplier of the Bard.
I love that this thread refuses to die.
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me too, my baby is growing so big and strong.
me too, my baby is growing so big and strong.I love that this thread refuses to die.
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It will only die when paizo makes the stupid mistake of buffing casters and nerfing martials to the point that casters have decent BAB and HD, because only then will gestalt stop being fun.
Mutation mind(psychic) with monk and the self perfection discipline seems very worthy. Psychic bloodline will be big for my sorcerer gestalts what with the whole casting in armor thing.
Someone pointed out Unchained Monk VMC Cleric can flurry with their deity's weapon kind of easily. So I suppose UC Monk/Scout Rogue, and VMC Cleric is now my go to choice for Ruby Rose from RWBY. Moving Flurry at full BAB, attacks get Sneak Attack.
I'll have more later. Probably.
Dirty tactics toolbox also has a UC monk compatible archetype that exchanges bonus feats for sneak attack. Just throwing that out there.
Magus (Kensai-Bladebound) 20 // Warblade 2/Factotum 8/Swiftblade 10
Bab: + 18
Caster level : 20 magus
martial adept level: 11 warblade
mythic tier 10 (why not?) - champion/archmage
Special abilities: int to AC twice, auto confirm criticals, int to init twice, always takes 20 on initiative, 50% miss chance against melee, ranged attacks and targeted spells, can use haste to time stop, inspiration points, arcana points
Highlights:
Almost guaranteed to always go first. Initiative will about around 70.
Almost guaranteed to get a critical every single round. Crits on a 15, with no confirmation roll required.
Critical hits do hundreds of points of damage, and apply various debilitating status effects, like stun or exhaustion, due to critical feats.
Superior time economy. Gets one additional standard action a round due to swiftblade. Can gain additional standard actions with Factotum and another using a mythic point.
Can cast haste as a free action. Can cast a 1 round time stop as a 6th due to swift blade. Gets an additional swift action due to coupled arcana. Gains another additional swift action due to Borrow Future, which can also be couple again for a 4th swift action. Gains an additional move action from mythic haste.
My one regret is not being able to find a way to squeeze Swashbuckler precise strike - int to damage, into the build.
My one regret is not being able to find a way to squeeze Swashbuckler precise strike - int to damage, into the build.
weaponmasters toolbox has an elven style that lets you use int to damage with elven weapon familiarity weapons.