Dwarf in the Flask's page

Dwarf in the Flask wrote:

Really you only ban roll with it? Seriously? So you let in Sacred Geometry?

No one has used Sacred Geometry, yet, so I haven't seen how it acts in game. Many people have used Roll With It, which is why I eventually banned it.

Until I play a game with someone who actually uses Sacred Geometry, I wont know for sure if I should ban it or not. The people in my gaming groups do know that things can be banned after a session if I find them particularly egregious to the game's central designs, and therefore they don't have problems if things do get banned. They just know that they get a free complete rebuild.

On a side note: what about this obscure feat that you've probably never heard about—must try to deflect and obfuscate the argument at hand.—

For a while I had a guy who more or less tried to get things intentionally banned by taking them to the extremes. We found really cool things, like the Arcane Trickster Gun Using Rogue of Death and Despair, that can more or less kill anything after a certain level.

He was fun. We all played in each others games trying to find ways to get things banned, hence where the acrobatic goblin god of invincibility came from.

Yeah I am not seeing Roll with It doing anything close to what you have said it does which to me seems like you don't understand the feat.

At level 20 you can have 20 ranks in Acrobatics and lets assume you have I don't know a 20 in Dex so that is a +28 modifier on your Acrobatics roll. Now you roll a 1d20 for your check and roll a Nat 20. Awesome right. That gives you if you apply the +10 to the roll you get 58. The DC to avoid an attack that deals 60 damage is 65... if your max roll is 58 well you take the 60 dmg now don't you?

So how the hell did you build a goblin that could tank the blows of the Terrasque?

Really you only ban roll with it? Seriously? So you let in Sacred Geometry?

You more or less stop as far as I know.

I never have to deal with this, since I ban this trite at all of my tables, so, yeah, you're SOL.

If I was the GM, and I somehow let you use this feat, I'd tell you that it is uncontrolled movement and therefore you cannot make any checks in conjunction with the movement. You are the ball, your enemy's attack is the bat.

If you do decide to use this feat, be prepared for when every single enemy in the game that you will ever encounter starts having ranged weapons.

Well if that was the case I think that would make you a vindictive GM and the fact that you would punish all the players. Now if you have all ranged weapons, then the melee foes who get close will wreck you outright. What then? Ban their melee weapons?

My issue is that people really do feel like they need to justify their characters killing entire tribes down to the last creature so they do not have to feel bad.

Really? Yes killing newborn creatures who have not opened their eyes yet is EVIL, killing babies in their mothers arms is EVIL, butchering surrendering or fleeing foes is EVIL. Deal with it.

Why is someone bringing up the rules and reasoning of a game that is not PF as if we should abide by those ruling. GG was a tad crazy or hadn't you heard?

Unless PF publishes a 'Killing babies handbook' on how to fight and kill babies of various races then those rules and stat run ups do not matter here.

Dwarf in the Flask wrote:

These questions always make me want to ask "So your party of pure elves stumble upon a nursery of baby humans in the bandits hide out what do you do?"

Obviously these humans where evil and vile creatures and you swiftly dispatched them. So whats to say the babies before you are not already evil and vile and just unable to act upon their vile natures?

We have all heard the horrible things humans can do to one another? Do you really want one of THOSE running around your home?

The difference is that Humans don't have a biological predisposition to murder/pyromania despite being raised in a good environment. Monster races naturally gravitate to being monsters, as dumb as that is.

You can change that as a DM, but the standard assumption is pretty bleak.

Oh yes they do, humans can be killers from a very young age and if that does not show some biological predisposition then I do not know what does.

Also Goblin PCs are not 100% evil so kind of lose the biological predisposition argument on that.

These questions always make me want to ask "So your party of pure elves stumble upon a nursery of baby humans in the bandits hide out what do you do?"

Obviously these humans where evil and vile creatures and you swiftly dispatched them. So whats to say the babies before you are not already evil and vile and just unable to act upon their vile natures?

We have all heard the horrible things humans can do to one another? Do you really want one of THOSE running around your home?

I wonder how someone would write up a Namekian.

Ok so we all know Roll With it is a Goblin feat that lets you convert damage into distance moved should you make the required check.

And we all know if you roll into an object or creature your size or larger (Small and up) you take only 1d4 points of damage. So you could convert 25 dmg into a 1d4 dmg. Fair trade

But could you maybe make use of the rolling into a creature larger then you if you had Limb Climber from Rogue's Vexing Dodger Archetype.
What I mean to ask if, is there anything allowing or stopping you from making a climb check when you roll into a person that would allow or prevent you from basically rolling up their body using a climb check? For that matter could you make a climb check on the roll to roll up the wall?

I am trying to imagine this goblin build that is just very annoyingly scrappy

Make a ring of Constant Duration for 45K

No, it takes them an hour to originally reform at which point they have 1 hp. You can't throw the acid flask for "instant skeletons".

I know that. I meant like you could throw them out and just say "Hey we wait for them to form." or have them released in an area of negative energy 1 hour later they would be healed up to be worth fighting.

I used it once, I retired the character after. I got the Keep, a Free Leve, and a major magical itm. Which my GM rolled for on a random generator online.

I sold the item, I can't recall what it was but I gained like 90-100K in gold and my guy was like.. you know what screw this adventuring crap I'm out and left.

I rolled up a new character because I honestly had no idea why the guy would still be in the group.

Carl is fine haha.

Except that idea doesn't work because it takes them an hour to reform.

If you are crafting the dungeon you could easily make that take an hour. Also you could say this area is being filled with negative energy used to heal undead not harm the living. So when they are given that 1 HP they would be healed up.

Jeraa wrote:

One little problem.

Quote:

Skeletons: A skeleton can be created only from a mostly intact corpse or skeleton. The corpse must have bones. If a skeleton is made from a corpse, the flesh falls off the bones.

A pile of bone dust is not an intact skeleton.

I am sorry if I was unclear (althought I thought I wasn't since the post is named after the ability that makes them return to unlife), but what I mean is:

-You make a Bloody Skeleton

-Bloody Skeletons return to unlife after being slained.

-My idea is to slain them myself, and keep the remains inside a little cage with acid inside.

-One hour later they will return to unlife at 1 hit point. The acid will kill them on the first round. One hour later will happen the same thing.

-This way I can have little boxes with my (previously animated and already under my controll) skeleton remains. Each box, one corpse.

-I can now go into towns without caring about my undead pissing off the villagers, or keeping them outside and coming back for them later.

-Whenever I pressume I might be needing an undead, I can spill the acid into another jar and let the remains with the box open. In one hour time he will be mine to controll again.

Jeraa wrote:

The post isn't clear, and is wrong either way (can't animate bone dust, no onyx needed to bring bloody skeletons back after they are killed).

The onyx thing is a houserule that Carl (May I call you Carl?) uses on his games. I beleive it is appealing and adds some flavour. It adds even more flavour after I saw somewhere that someone had her onyx stones carved in little skulls. the bigger the onyx skull, the bigger its price.

It is not like you can reuse it later (the stone I mean), but instead of beeing consumed when the spell is casted, it stays with the skeleton until it dies.

----

The reason I mentioned this on the Rules Questions section, is because I don't know if the skeleton is reborn from its remains, or wherever he was slained.

I...

I would say they return from their remains. The idea of burning a BS to charred ash and sticking it into a 1lbs Acid Flask is a good idea, 1 lbs of acid is a large vial of acid and could keep the ash from reforming. Till you pour out the acid or toss the flask and break it. Heck might be good for a baddie at the entrance of his lair. The BBEG has vials of acid overhead and the PCs think they are so cool they dodged them all... only to be flanked later by the BS they didn't know where reforming behind them.

I think this would allow you to have them without spooking the villagers and what not. For the Acid I could see you throwing the vial of acid and it breaking, the acid drips off and they begin to reform.

Of course reducing them to powder or bits of bones would be the hard part.

Hmm does that mean Gentle Repose cannot be used on Undead?
Do we have a FAQ or ruling on Corpse being different then Undead, as most mention them being corpses.

Is this the all poodles are dogs but not all dogs are poodles thing?

What happens if you use Restore Corpse on a Bloody Skeleton?

That would be an interesting idea, a flask of acid is 1 lbs and costs 10 GP at higher levels 10 GP is nothing.

Did they ever get an FAQ on the Beast Bond Witch at level 10 and its Twin Souls ability?

Also if you really want to screw with a party throw smart Nilbogs at them and watch them flee.

I am fond of the Goblins, I like giving a dip into Rogue for Vexing Dodger Archetype and get the Limb Climber. And have them use stealth and drop down onto a foe. If you have three goblins jump on you which is at least 96 lbs suddenly jumping on you.

I would just guy a Jealous Runeforged Weapon which eats three negative levels when drawn.
18,000 GP vs 3 levels and 3 weeks.

They can persist in this state indefinitely, or the guest can return to its own body (if available) by touch, transfer into a suitable vessel (such as a clone), or take over another body as if using magic jar (with no receptacle).

^ If there is no soul in the body, why would you ever need to leave the body? And if the soul is extracted without a receptacle it dies and moves on.

Since when does negative energy drain life from you? I thought Energy Drain and Negative Energy where two separate things

But as pointed out before. Which of the two planes can you live on? Negative or Positive Planes?

Indeed but they are deemed evil because they have 'cheated' death. Most living things want to cheat death.

Dwarf in the Flask wrote:

Which is not immortality in the same way as a Lich or Vampire or other things.

That is literally just renewed life. Not the continuation of the same life.

You retain all your memories and abilities, does it matter?

A lich becomes a bunch of bones after all

True enough, so why is it evil? Take five levels of Druid and you get the best part of being a lich. Just get some permanent item of Death Ward, since you can continue to track your items for 7 days after you revive just go and get the Death Ward item and you are good.

So why is that fine but all other forms of immortality considered evil?

Which is not immortality in the same way as a Lich or Vampire or other things.
That is literally just renewed life. Not the continuation of the same life.

Yes as Capstones at 20th level. Which is so unrealistic as not to matter. How many games have you played in or heard played go to level 20 or beyond?

I am noticing a pattern here. Why do all these immortal creatures have to be evil? I mean literally every immortal template says they have to be evil. Why is it evil to want to stay alive?

Well then the 10th level witch is even better. Not only do you jump bodies, but you can jump into more powerful bodies. What can kill a level 10 witch? Whatever it is now is possessed by the witch.

I agree I like Green Ronin and Dreamscarred Press much more sometimes.

I want to point out Reincarnated Druid and Beast Bond Witch are just evil if used correctly. A witch at level 10 can never die if there is a foe or ally near by. Druids just reincarnating unless killed by a Death effect, and if you pick Samsaran not only do you get awesome stolen spells but also +2 Racial bonus on top of your class +4 against death effects oh and a good Fort save.

Ok so I was thinking of rolling up an Android for a upcoming campaign. So I was gonna look and take a few templates to empower my character.

One was gonna be the Clockwork Construct, as it adds 0 CR and gives Lightning Reflexes and Improved Initiative and a +2 Dodge bonus for the low price of needing to be winded up each day (I am in a party after all) and taking 150% of Electrical damage.

And the next is obviously the +1 Champ Advanced.

I was thinking of taking the Iron Priest Archetype for the Cleric, using the channel energy to heal himself and spontaneously casting Repair spells would keep him up on his feet at all times.

I was also considering the Monk class, giving the Android a very physical power house, think the Handy Men from the new Alien game, a android who can lift a man with ease and has no problem punching through foes.

Would a gestalt of the two work well?

See that makes sense.

Thank you for the information. I would hope this is very late in the AP and the PCs have a ton of abilities to throw at this. As the Summon Monster IX alone could cause issues.

Haunted Construct
I have to say this seems extremely good for a +2. This is the Advanced of the +2 CR range.

Now if someone stripped out the Spell-Likes I might range this as +1 CR but those Spell-likes are insane. I mean I would rate this much much higher.

So I was thinking of the fact that Androids count as Constructs and can thus take Construct templates and seeing this I was floored because for a simple +2 you gain insane amounts of power.

How would you rate this? Would you allow someone to take this with their Android?

Dwarf in the Flask wrote:

Thought that was flavor text given their mechanic of them not getting morale bonuses.

If its mechanics based it then Androids should be immune to mind-effects and other effects like that. But they only have a +4 Race bonus to it. So I would argue that they can.

Mind-affecting =/= emotions.

Then they are capable of having emotions because they only have a bonus against mind-effecting spells. So if they are not immune they should be able to produce emotions enough, just not be very emotional.

Thought that was flavor text given their mechanic of them not getting morale bonuses.

If its mechanics based it then Androids should be immune to mind-effects and other effects like that. But they only have a +4 Race bonus to it. So I would argue that they can.

Paladin//Swashbuckler of Cayden Cailean would be pretty awesome.

I like the Daring Cavelier//Bard for that swashbuckler feel and level to damage as well as the force multiplier of the Bard.

Your right, also its 33 because of the +1 from Monk's AC bonus increase,
But yeah they would be dealing +15 to both melee attacks with the staff and dealing 1d8+17 on each shot. 2d8+34 is nice for a level 5 build.

Sorry I just realized I got this and This mixed up. Was more asking how it would work for Arcanist.

Advanced Vanara
Unchained Monk 4/Fist of the Forest 1/Shiba Protector 1//Warpriest 6
Flaw Feat: Great Fortitude
Flaw Feat: Iron Will
1rst: Power Attack
Monk: Dodge
Monk: Improved Grapple
3rd: Alertness
4th: Bonus: Combat Expertise
5th: Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff)
Monk: Mobility
Bonus: Weapon Spec (Quarterstaff)

Base Stats
Str: 14 +4 (18) +4
Dex: 18 +2 +4 (24) +7
Con: 16 +4 (20) +5
Int: 16 +4 (20) +5
Wis: 18 +2 +4 (24) +7
Cha: 14 -2 +4 (16) +3

AC 10+7+7+5+1 = 30 [Touch] +2(NA) = 32 Total
Speed 40
Climb 30 (Post Errata)

To Hit: +5(BAB)+4(Str)+1(WF)+7(Wis)= +17
To Dmg: +4(Str)+7(Wis)+2(WS)= +13 Dmg (1d8+13 Quarterstaff)

Just a rough build I threw together, seems like it would be fun.
Note: Shiba Protector is not needed if you can get a Guided AoMF for like 5K. Which frees up 3 feat slots.

I was curious about the Book of Infinite Spells, how does it work for Arcanist?

Nah your new Max Casting stat is treated as +2 higher so you can get a Int of 22. Which is pretty nice.

Seems they are looking at Dragonlance for all things Half-Orc. They gave them Lucky (Adds a +1 luck bonus to all saves) and Spellcasting Prodigy (Treat casting stat as +2 higher for purposes of how many bonus spells per day you can cast.)

That is if you use the Pre-Errata Scarred Witch Doctor. After its Int based. Honestly I would use the post errata version and then toss on Lost Tradition from 3.0 to give them back their Con casting if I was the DM. It makes them pay a feat to synch back up.

Hmm Unchained Monk//Warpriest (Focused on Quarterstaff) with a Vanara (Advanced Template) with a Staff of Surprise would be loads of fun to play as the Monkey King.

I am curious what Gestalt would work best with
Moss Lich

Most of us are following this thread to get a chuckle over "Murphy's Rules, Pathfinder Edition." Others are combing over it looking for wording loopholes they haven't tried to exploit yet. Have you found yourself going "Ha!" or "Hmmm..."?

^ Pretty much the reason I am here.

Bolt Ace is awesome, playing one with a level 1 dip into Cavern Sniper on my Drow Noble and he just wrecks.

So is 5 levels worth the 3 levels of Trench Fighter?

I have been wanting to try a Kungfu Genius Unchained Monk gestalted with Arcanist. Kungfu Genius was a 3.5 Feat that switched the monk to Int focus.