Blueluck |
Currently on the front page of the rules forum there are three conversations about wielding oversize weapons, and that's not unusual. There seem to be a significant number of players with a strong desire to swing enormous weapons.
Why do so many people want oversize weapons so badly?
Understanding
There are lots of other recurring questions along the lines of "How can I make this work?" or "I wish this worked better." For most of them, even if I don't happen to want the same thing, I understand the motivation. (e.g. sword and shield fighters, direct damage casters, heal/buff pacifists, agility based combatants, throwing experts, etc.) The oversize weapon chasers, however, I don't understand.
Realism
A historical greatsword is a really big weapon! Up to six feet in length and made of solid steel. Likewise various polearms, axes, and clubs that appear in the Pathfinder weapons list are modeled after big real-world weapons that push the envelope of human ability to wield. It doesn't seem plausible that a character, especially a first level character, would wield a weapon larger than thousands of years of human history have produced.
Weapons of the gods?
There are myths and legends about weapons too big and heavy for mortals to wield, Thor's hammer Mjölnir is perhaps the most well known example, but even Mjölnir had the ability to change size and become "so small that it could be carried inside his tunic." If requests for oversize weapons were linked with high level characters, possibly as capstone (20th level) abilities for melee character of godlike power, perhaps I would understand. But, typically, requests for oversize weapons are for first level characters.
thejeff |
Final Fantasy
Anime
Warhammer (have you seen their armour designs?)
Rob Liefeld (esp in the 90's)
It's largely been a visual thing. Anime, cartoons, some movies, miniatures. They look cool, even if impractical. For miniatures, partly because big is easier to do and more distinctive.
I don't think written fantasy has really gone in that direction. Sometimes the cover art does, even though it doesn't match the descriptions in the story.
Mind you, the chainmail bikini has been around since Robert E. Howard wrote Conan, at least.
Source? It's possible, but I don't remember it. The archetypal Red Sonja chainmail bikini was a Marvel Comics creation of the 70s.
MacGurcules |
I'd reckon it's just another case of forum group mind. You'll have someone bring up a topic and that'll get other people thinking along similar lines. And now you've got a dozen people all thinking and talking about roughly the same topic but coming at it from slightly different angles. Those discussions will expand and spin off other sub-discussions. Then eventually, this cloud of conversation will reach enough of a critical mass that someone comes along and starts a thread that says, "Gee, a lot of people have been talking about X, lately. What's the deal with that?"
Give it a couple of weeks and it'll be different thing.
Blueluck |
The chainmail bikini is a different, if closely related issue. Here's my favorite article on the subject of The Chainmail Bikini
Albatoonoe |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
BECAUSE A MAN DOESN'T USE THE MOST PRACTICAL WEAPON, HE USES THE MOST AWESOME!
And these characters aren't conscripted soldiers or whatever. They're adventurers. They're oddballs that, rather than get a real job, throw themselves into unexplored ruins to gather ancient treasure and fight ancient evils. Adventurers (And PCs) are, by their very nature, unusual. Sometimes, this means wielding a gigantic sword while other times it means being a kung-fu monkey druid.
So, in short, it's because they can.
Kalshane |
I don't think written fantasy has really gone in that direction. Sometimes the cover art does, even though it doesn't match the descriptions in the story.
The Knights Terra in the Codex Alera books do, but they use earth magic to give themselves super-strength. Big and smashy is their whole schtick. (Though they're also pretty much background characters. Most of the characters in the books fight with a gladius or a bow.)
Mortuum |
Ok, here's why:
People like to ape iconic fantasy characters of every kind. Some of those have such weapons.
Foes have the weapons, so sometimes it fits your character's backstory to use them. There's stuff in the race entries about giants enslaving people, for example.
Wielding a bigger weapon than anybody else can is a symbol of your power and your party role. It's one of those things that marks you as being different from the faceless guards you mow down.
Pathfinder characters seem like they could probably wield bigger weapons than real people. They have an alarming tendency to be stronger than horses, magically enhanced on top of that and outrageously talented at waving chunks of metal.
In mechanical terms it gives a smashy character more of what they want most and it's not inherently overpowered if they pay somehow.
You can do damn near anything else and more options are good.
Blueluck |
People like to ape iconic fantasy characters of every kind. Some of those have such weapons.
There's my answer, I think. People want to mimic iconic characters I'm unfamiliar with. I've never played Final Fantasy, didn't know who Cloud was until I looked him up, watch little anime (and even that isn't fantasy anime), and rarely read comic books (never fantasy comics). So, I'm simply out of the loop on big-weapon role models.
Now I only wonder when the trend started.
Mortuum |
There's my answer, I think.
It's a significant part of it, to be sure, but really there is no one answer. It's important to understand that there are game mechanic reasons for wanting such a thing and that Cloud and his ilk were designed that way for reasons. People want the weapons for the same reason cloud has them, not only because he has them.
Rynjin |
Darkflame |
the apeal of wielding somthing difrent and more efective is great overall larger weapons should do more damage but even so would make it harder to hit so the overall efectiveness is not so good! this is why i turned away from it and became a strong magus.
it is david who won vs goliath because he was smarter!! :-) and a Magus is pritty smart!! but stil strong!!
P33J |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
the apeal of wielding somthing difrent and more efective is great overall larger weapons should do more damage but even so would make it harder to hit so the overall efectiveness is not so good! this is why i turned away from it and became a strong magus.
it is david who won vs goliath because he was smarter!! :-) and a Magus is pritty smart!! but stil strong!!
Don't forget, David took Goliath's sword and used it to chop his head off (1 Samuel 17:51).
My point? EVEN GOD APPROVES OF OVERSIZED WEAPONS!
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus |
I'd imagine a good number of people who play Pathfinder are Americans (hell, everything's in Feet and Pounds!).
And Americans have been raised on the concept of BIGGER IS BETTER.
Speaking as an American, that is a bit generalized. I agree the game is in feet and pounds, and that us stupid Americans should have switched to the metric a LONG time ago. But the idea of bigger is better isn't as universal as it may seem or at least as it was.
In a world where swords and great-swords are common, they lose their romantic/cool factor. In the media swords have always been cool. The more out of place in the future, the better; thus drawing attention, and thus the cool factor. Example: Highlander series; modern day sword use=very cool.
Bigger is to be noticed more. When everyone and their uncle can wield a sword it losses its romantic nature and ideology. So the simple solution is to just make it bigger. Keeps the same general form and method of use, probably requiring EVEN more skill and strength to use, but is different, thus cool. Another way to look at it is the old plays in Greece. They wore large masks/helmets to make their heads bigger so they would be noticed from further distances.
So in short bigger+ideal=noticeable=cool. That is how things just are.
Now others could make it where they don't care about the romance of the sword icon. In this case: unique=noticeable=cool
Lumiere Dawnbringer |
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the pathfinder Designers were also american
everything is in feet and pounds
excess of mass is an advantage, due to both reach, and strength bonuses, this is before you factor size bonuses.
in fact, the Dexterity and Attack bonuses of being smaller were deliberately staggered in comparison to the strength and natural armor bonuses of growing larger. specifically so that bigger meant better.
light weapons would actually be useful once we incorporate some kind of weapon speed rules.
where a dagger would get more attacks per round than a greatsword