Arrow


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The show has definitely had it's CW moments during the season, but what really struck me was how tightly crafted the finale felt. All the events and dialogue served a purpose, to further the story.

Also, I think the flashbacks were probably the best overall, in how they fit in with the present day timeline. It wasn't it's own story, it was there to highlight and illuminate what was going on.


This show was great this season.

I was certain I had posted in this thread before but it seems to have wiped my dot.

In any case, I was also very surprised by how well done the finale was. I was one of the ones who enjoyed the cornier moments of the show and enjoyed pretty much every episode (a couple/three were a bit too...soap-y for my taste. And I watch and enjoy True Blood so that's saying something.), but the last few episodes leading up to it and the finale were genuinely great entertainment, not just something I enjoyed despite its minor flaws, if that makes sense.

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Irontruth, while I am not usually a fan of the flashbacks, I think you are right in how they were used in the finale. It also served as a bit of foreshadowing, which was well done.

Rynjin, you do make sense, and I agree.

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Anyone else looking forward to season 2's premiere this coming Wednesday? I'm rather excited.

These are the things I've heard we should anticipate (and/or with my added speculation) (spoilered for people who don't want to know preview stuff---really, there is some potentially spoilery stuff so be warned):

Spoiler:

- Ollie retreated to Lian Yu after Tommy's death. Roy Harper has tried to replace "The Vigilante" in his absence, with Thea's help. When Ollie returns, he is starting the transition from being "the Hood" to being Green Arrow.

- Isabel Rochev (played by Summer Glau) is attempting a hostile takeover of Queen Consolidated, with Moira's arrest and Walter's departure. I don't know a lot about Isabel, but I understand Isabel in the comics is actually a past lover of Robert Queen's and sees herself as the rightful "heir" to Queen Consolidated. Given they've mentioned Robert did cheat on Moira, I wonder if they will do a twist on that.

- Caity Lotz is playing a blonde vigilante probably known as the Black Canary. Someone let it slip it may well be Sarah Lance, Laurel's sister. Whoever it is, according to interviews with the showrunners, she is no more the "real" Black Canary than the first guy in the Deathstroke mask we saw turn out to be really Deathstroke (i.e., he was not Slade Wilson, he showed up later), but instead will play a role to inspire Laurel who is beginning her journey toward joining team hero. I am really looking forward to this as I am hoping to see a lot stronger character development of Laurel. I am rewatching Season 1 on DVD and when Laurel is well-written, she is a really strong character; what undercuts her was rather inconsistent treatment, and I really hope if she's got her own, non-love interest sublot, that will go a long way to proper, consistent, and deep character development.

- In the meantime, since CNRI has been destroyed, Laurel has taken a job as District Attorney. She has decided to crack down on Starling City's new vigilante (Roy). Now, an interesting thing here.... it was almost a throwaway line, but I distinctly remember Laurel mentioning last season that the DA at the time was a woman named Kate Spencer. Those of you who recognize the name must wonder along with me if the reason why Ms. Spencer has left her position vacant is because she has gone off on her own Manhunt... :)

- China White will be back.

- Bronze Tiger will be making an appearance.

- Barry Allen will be coming (with hopes to spin him off into his own TV series). He will not have superpowers when he first appears, but events occur that will lead him to be "the first superpowered hero" the Arrow series sees. I've also read that the show will start featuring more superpowered characters (which I have mixed feelings about--I liked the "low power" feel of the Arrowverse, but if they handle things WELL, it of course opens up for appearances by more DCU characters. But then even that also makes me feel nervous, because I think they already push too hard at the "too many characters" issue---several of the weak episodes of last season was when Guest Character of the Day distracted from proper development of one or more of the series regulars. On another note, frankly, I really couldn't give a flying f~~@ about the Flash and have no interest in this storyline and wish they weren't so cheap to do a Poorly-Disguised Pilot. For people who are fans of the Flash, he deserves to have his own proper pilot, and for people like me who don't care, leave Arrow to be about Team Arrow.

- There is an episode called "The Crucible" which makes me think Helena Bertinelli is coming back, as "crucible" was her catchphrase of sorts. I hope they've gotten their best writers on this, and that Jessica DeGouw has taken acting lessons in the meantime, because Helena deserves so much better than what the show has given or depicted her so far.

- John Barrowman has been asked back. Whether this is in flashbacks or in another arrangement remains to be seen.


I'm psyched for Arrow's return! And I like introducing Barry Allen in a 'low power' universe--in comics he was (like so many silver age heroes) just too darn powerful.

The Exchange

I'm interested in this show. Would you suggest picking it up via Amazon Season Pass?


I don't know much about Amazon Season Pass, but I will say it's well worth your time to see the first season of Arrow (in order) ASAP, as the second season hit the ground running this week.

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OH MY GOD SO GOOD. SO SO GOOD. If this plays out the potential it's built in the first episode, AMAZING.

TheLoneCleric: I would suggest watching Season 1 by whatever legal means is easiest for you. It is out on DVD, but digital is fine too. I can say the deleted scenes that show up on the DVD are enlightening.

For Season 2, the episodes stream free on the CW website the day after they air (I am a crazy child who got up at 6:15 AM to watch it this morning, as I don't have a working antenna for my TV and no cable) and they also show on Hulu (although I don't know if Hulu is doing the week delay thing), so unless you plan to download the videos/get them in the Amazon Cloud, personally I would suggest getting free over paid.

About that season 2 premiere:

Spoiler:

- Ollie's brooding was a little irritating in the beginning, but I like the development that occurred and his decision to become Green Arrow at least felt organic.

- Felicity is awesome.

- Laurel got to kick ass. I also kind of like Ollie and Laurel best as sort of awkward friends than love interests; I hope they keep it that way. They had really good friend-chemistry, it's just when they try to push it farther it falls apart.

- OMG BLACK CANARY THAT WAS AWESOME.

- Really LOVE Thea's development. She has grown from being one of the characters I cared least about to one I am really rooting for.

- Harper on the other hand just feels vanilla as his bland CW actor-clone face. He is at least participating though.

- Diggle was in great form.

- Loved the scenes with Moira and both her kids.

- I actually am thinking Summer Glau is right for this part. I am not a big fan of her, but she does ice queen well, so it may well be cool to see how she keeps playing Isabel Rochev.

Silver Crusade

The season premiere was amazing! So much action packed into an hour! I have heard a lot about this season and can't wait to see more DC heroes and villains. Between this show and Tomorrow People my Weds will be booked in the evenings!

The Exchange

Smallville was a guilty pleasure there towards the end. I hope this does not suffer the bad guy of the week issue?

The Exchange

Ah. Good news. It just hit Netflix yesterday. Now to catch up.

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TheLoneCleric wrote:
Smallville was a guilty pleasure there towards the end. I hope this does not suffer the bad guy of the week issue?

No. While there's a episodes that feature a per episode character of interest (not always a villain), there is also clearly from the get-go a long range story arc that builds up over time, with your "big bad" showdown the end. Structured similarly in that way to Buffy (broadly speaking) in terms of strong season long arc, even if there are some focus episodes here and there. (And the big bad is one of the my favorite villains I have seen on TV in awhile.)

You'll understand once you start watching you might fear "oh no, this is going to be 'who does Oliver cross off on the list this week?'" but it breaks out of that seeming mold very quickly.


Just got through watching the 1st ep of S2. Amazing beginning. What I loved the most was how you see a logical transition from the "Hood" to Green Arrow. His decision to embrace a no kill approach makes sense given what happened in s1. I can't wait for Oliver to take Roy under his wing.

Grand Lodge

I am 100% with you on your comments DeathQuaker except not being a fan of Summer Glau. As River Tam she possessed a grace of movement I have seldom seen in an actor. Of course as a Browncoat, we have a soft spot for any that causes trouble for the Alliance.

Dark Archive

DeathQuaker wrote:
You'll understand once you start watching you might fear "oh no, this is going to be 'who does Oliver cross off on the list this week?'" but it breaks out of that seeming mold very quickly.

Yeah, I'm glad to see that formula being kept from taking over the show. I remember that being a frustration with the Highlander series. (Which immortal shows up, does something Mac doesn't like, and gets decapitated for it this week?)

The action for Black Canary was really good. I'm kind of hoping the suggestion that she might be the missing Lance sister is a red herring. ('Cause, otherwise, that was the least successfully attempt to murder someone by blowing up their boat, ever!)

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Set wrote:


The action for Black Canary was really good. I'm kind of hoping the suggestion that she might be the missing Lance sister is a red herring. ('Cause, otherwise, that was the least successfully attempt to murder someone by blowing up their boat, ever!)

Well, my sense is there were several people on the boat, and many were actually killed. They were just killed.

Also, I think the idea is that Malcolm's people were not planning on the storm. The storm was already shaking the boat, and so the crew began to prepare life raft, etc. which is why Robert and nameless bodyguard made it, and then were able to pull Ollie into the boat before he drowned (had Robert not saved Ollie, he probably would have died). So there's some human action here that's raising the survival count.

Sara was yanked out in a rush of water early on. But at that point the boat itself was still fairly close to the surface. So if they needed her to be alive, I can see a somewhat plausible argument she was yanked out of the boat, pushed clean from the ship and then surfaced elsewhere (where Ollie was unable to see her and her him).

It may be contrived certainly, but if they go that way--I can see how it might work.

If they don't, I look forward to whomever this woman is. They call her Canary according to previews. Maybe she's the White Canary or....

Jade Canary. (*cue music sting*)

(I doubt the latter, but if Shiva doesn't show up on Arrow at some point, I will punch a wall.)


Thea and Laurel - especially Laurel - make this show painful to watch. (Though Thea has noticeably been improved from S1 - she actually does something now!) Laurel, though, did an almost-180.

Now, Laurel was fabulously dumb in S1 - but now she's a useless subhuman troglodyte. Emphasis on the "useless". Every scene with her is excruciating.

The writers need to be... replaced.

Ah well. *goes back to enjoying Agents of SHIELD*

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Yeah, I didn't much care for Thea at the beginning, but she's turned into a real character. I don't care for the Roy character much, but her being forced to be the responsible one of that pairing (and also no longer having her mom to be 'the responsible one' for her) is really putting her in a neat growing-up place.

Character development! Whodda thunk it? :)

That said, she's not as much a breakout character for me as Chloe Sullivan was on Smallville. (A role Felicity seems to be going for.)

Laurel, not so much. Yeah Laurel, if you get the Hood off the street, everybody in Starling City is just going to magically stop taking Vertigo, nobody is ever going to get mugged, and the Chinese triads are just going to get bored and go away. Good plan. Still, if someone has to have a death grip on the idiot ball, at least it's someone I didn't like anyway, and not Felicity or something!

The focus on how great Tommy was after a season of him being kind of neglected by both Oliver and Laurel (both of whom seemed to regard him as some sort of 'backup friend' who wasn't Diggle or Oliver, respectively), seems a bit jarring. It almost makes sense that the two would be guilting over that very thing, how they treated him like a doormat, and never got a chance to make it right, but it just feels weird from a storytelling aspect, since characters in serial TV that die tend to get a funeral episode (if that) and then forgotten as if they never existed, with all the focus being on the new actor that replaces them in whatever dynamic exists...

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Blast, forgot to record Wednesday's episode.

I'm rather happy to see Tommy mentioned. I likedhow he was trying to be the good guy. and how he was killed in a 'This isn't the old DC universe' kind of way (and thank the divine, it's not the DCnU).

I think it would be interesting if Roy took up the more lethal methods, even as Ollie was turning away from them.


Set wrote:
Laurel, not so much. Yeah Laurel, if you get the Hood off the street, everybody in Starling City is just going to magically stop taking Vertigo, nobody is ever going to get mugged, and the Chinese triads are just going to get bored and go away. Good plan. Still, if someone has to have a death grip on the idiot ball, at least it's someone I didn't like anyway, and not Felicity or something!

Worth repeating.

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Arnwyn wrote:

Thea and Laurel - especially Laurel - make this show painful to watch. (Though Thea has noticeably been improved from S1 - she actually does something now!) Laurel, though, did an almost-180.

Now, Laurel was fabulously dumb in S1 - but now she's a useless subhuman troglodyte. Emphasis on the "useless". Every scene with her is excruciating.

The writers need to be... replaced.

Ah well. *goes back to enjoying Agents of SHIELD*

*sigh* I was hoping this discussion would be hater free. Oh, well, it's the Internet.

Criticize characters, fine, but I just get really tired of straight up character bashing. I was just exiting the forum the other day because I was tired of people just talking about who they hated and jumping up and down on the opinions of anyone who disagreed with them (so my frustration is borne from other people). Where's the love??

Don't get me wrong, you don't like her, that's your right, I just... I just... your comment made me SAD, Arnwyn. That's all.

I like Laurel actually. I like the idea of her, anyway. I think the writers do need to get their act together with her--something they themselves have admitted--but I actually think they're on their way there. There's supposed to be some interesting stuff coming up and I'm willing to give the showrunners time to develop it properly.

And sure, it's foolish for her to have a mad-on for the Arrow. It's also an ENTIRELY believable thing for a grieving person to do. My sense is she probably blames herself for Tommy's death, but she can't lash out at herself, so she lashes out at the Arrow--a fairly faceless, nameless person, after all, and thus very easy to target. She doesn't actually think getting the vigilante will make things sunshine and rainbows in Starling City. She does think it will help remove an unstable element in the city (and he does have a kill count of about 28 or so), but a lot of it is about her grief. It's NOT reasonable or logical. Grief isn't reasonable or logical. And even highly skilled lawyers experience grief in all of its irrationality. I would be more critical of her and of other characters if they were all terribly rational about Tommy's death because it just doesn't work that way.

And even though it's going to probably cause a world of issues, I actually have to admire Laurel for anticipating the Arrow's return and being ready for it. That was DAMN smart and I am very interested in seeing what happens next. Credit where it's due. Heck, Laurel would make a great villain.

NOW, where I do find a faulty logic leap isn't in Laurel's--it's in everybody else going along with her. The DA, the police, all ready to jump to help her with this. Why THEY blame the vigilante for everything is a little incomprehensible, unless the DA and the entire SWAT team also slept with Oliver after Tommy dumped them too. Why is everyone joining the witch hunt? Why isn't there someone to say, "Laurel, honey, you're grieving and you're getting a bit f@@+nuts about it," that's what I want to know.

I am really hoping as they get into the Canary storyline she will get a not-Oliver focus. The less she is a damsel in distress or "the love interest" the more likely they'll be able to develop her into a decent character.

Really there's very few people I dislike on this show. I think Roy is a little vanilla but that's about it, and even he's hopefully getting some growth potential. Love what they're doing with Thea, it is amazing to see her so much more self-reliant and confident than the mess she was at the beginning of the season. She WAS irritating at the start but needed to be to see how her arc evolved.

It's season two now and so far I feel like the stories are pretty tight, so I'm going to trust that a lot of the mistakes in Season 1 are going to be ironed out in this one. I just want to wait and see before I cast a lot of damning judgments on anyone.

Dark Archive

DeathQuaker wrote:
I am really hoping as they get into the Canary storyline she will get a not-Oliver focus. The less she is a damsel in distress or "the love interest" the more likely they'll be able to develop her into a decent character.

Laurel discovering that there is a woman out there doing the same thing (plus the possible red herring, or stone cold fact, that this second vigilante could be her sister!) might soften her current anti-vigilante stance quite a bit, true. Or she might wrong-headedly think that the Hood has inspired yet more delusional even-more-dangerous copycats, like the Hood Gang from Ep 1. Depends on how tightly she holds on to her choice to blame the Hood for her own grief and guilt-feeling for Tommy having died in an attempt to save her. (That the only reason she was in the Glades and people did come to save her is her own bull-headedness, the same bull-headedness she's displaying even still, is a cool sort of irony. And yet, I'd prefer her, like Thea, growing past repeating the same mistakes, even if the second episode since Tommy's death is perhaps a bit too soon to expect her to 'get over it.' There's always a weird disconnect between viewing a show, with a week, between episodes, or months between seasons, and our expectations of how the characters should react, when they might have had only hours and no reason at all to have gotten over something, just because the viewers have practically forgotten it!)

It might be an interesting twist, adding in some Golden Age potential, if Laurel's research into the city's legal precedents reveals that the city has had masked or hooded vigilantes before, perhaps during WW2, or just after, and that 'this all didn't start with the Hood.'

A key part of her stance is that everything went to hell when the Hood appeared, and finding out that these sorts of people have existed in the city before, and that previous DA's and police chiefs and what not have dealt with them in various ways, some confrontational and some even cooperative, might open her eyes to a less black and white world that she didn't know about (and set the stage for this being a DCU type place, where superheroing isn't limited to one dude in one city, just now, but has happened before, in many places).

They don't have to 'go there' and mention Gotham or anything, but name-dropping golden age 'masked vigilantes' like Dr. Midnite or the Sandman or Wildcat, non-powered 'gimmick heroes' who took a two-fisted approach to crimefighting, could provide some 'evidence' that might help lawyer-ly Laurel find a reason to step away from the prosecution and consider playing defense.

Then again, Laurel as vigilante-hating villain would be an interesting twist, making her the Lex to Oliver's Superman, particularly the more modern-day interpretation of Lex who sublimates his jealousy of Superman's power and popularity with the excuse that he's just fighting for the common man against some all-powerful alien demigod who thinks the rules don't apply to him.

That could provide the funky possibility that her father ends up trying to talk her down, since he's seen first hand what obsessing over the vigilante and perhaps even being willing to cut corners, ignore orders and go outside the law to bring him in did to his career...


It would help if Cassidy wouldn't be so damned incompetent.


DeathQuaker wrote:
*sigh* I was hoping this discussion would be hater free. Oh, well, it's the Internet.

*shrug* Arrow is not immune to criticism.

Though I suppose I should have expected a response like that from you, given your previous rather... 'enthusiastic'... quote:

DeathQuaker wrote:
OH MY GOD SO GOOD. SO SO GOOD.

(Though, to be honest, I was hoping that you would just ignore my post.)

Quote:
I was just exiting the forum the other day because I was tired of people just talking about who they hated and jumping up and down on the opinions of anyone who disagreed with them (so my frustration is borne from other people). Where's the love??

Well, you can like Laurel as much as you like. And believe me - I have little intention of responding to any of your posts in this thread. I get that you really like this show. Yay for you, I suppose. It could be, though, that my posts here really aren't for you, DeathQuaker. I am much much more critical of this show than you are (though I can see potential - and I like the DC universe, in general - at least from what little I know, since I'm a non-comicbook-fan), so I can imagine you won't like what I have to say about this show. And I absolutely reject that the thread should be some kind of weird love-in, so I'm afraid you won't get that from me.

If it's within you, could you ignore my posts? I'm doing the same for yours right now (only responding if I see a quote of me).

Quote:
Don't get me wrong, you don't like her, that's your right, I just... I just... your comment made me SAD, Arnwyn. That's all.

It's just a TV show - and it's Laurel - so I'm not really sure I'm capable of understanding. /sheepish/

(And if you don't like my posts, be thankful my wife isn't here. My comments are tempered compared to hers.)

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It's about tone, Arnwyn. "Useless subhuman troglodyte" is hateful, and discourages evenhanded discussion and puts those who disagree on the defensive.

"Her actions are illogical and unreasonable because she was fighting corruption in Starling City well before the Hood showed up, so she has to know it didn't start with him," would be criticism, and invites further analysis and points of view.

Also while I don't need to see a lot of blind fangirling, I'd just love to see in general people on the internet talk more frequently about the stuff they like and with equal passion as to what they dislike. That isn't directed toward you, specifically, that's just my feeling sad and jsded about the state if the world I live in. No one can ever say whst they are happy about, it just seems like everyone's sad and angry all the time and it just makes me wonder what the f!%+ were all doing here if we're all so g#~%#!n miserable all the time.

The Exchange

I do like seeing Ollie out of his murderous depth. Nice twist for this season.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

I just lament my DVR didn't co-operate and record last Wednesday's episode.


DeathQuaker wrote:
It's about tone, Arnwyn. "Useless subhuman troglodyte" is hateful, and discourages evenhanded discussion and puts those who disagree on the defensive.

I do agree, in theory. However, my tone was purposeful. I find her so awful and detrimental/damaging to the show that I (just me, personally) have zero interest in any discussion (evenhanded or otherwise) about her. (Other people certainly can - just not me, and not stemming from my post.)

I'm not really (and by not really, I mean not all all) inviting 'further analysis' about Laurel. If people disagree with how I feel about her character, my post is probably not for them. (I am very much okay if people don't respond to my posts.)

I can't really relate to the rest of your post. I assume that if people don't say much about something (while participating in a certain topic), then they otherwise like everything else. I assume happiness and satisfaction is the base state of affairs.

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Set wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
I am really hoping as they get into the Canary storyline she will get a not-Oliver focus. The less she is a damsel in distress or "the love interest" the more likely they'll be able to develop her into a decent character.
Laurel discovering that there is a woman out there doing the same thing (plus the possible red herring, or stone cold fact, that this second vigilante could be her sister!) might soften her current anti-vigilante stance quite a bit, true.

IMDB seems to have spoilered "The Canary's" true identity btw. And I think it will certainly spin her head around several times, though how she reacts I don't know.

Quote:
Or she might wrong-headedly think that the Hood has inspired yet more delusional even-more-dangerous copycats, like the Hood Gang from Ep 1. Depends on how tightly she holds on to her choice to blame the Hood for her own grief and guilt-feeling for Tommy having died in an attempt to save her.

Could be both. If we trust that she is ultimately going to take on the Canary's identity, obviously at some point she is going to accept some form of vigilantism or crimefighteryness. Or become an employee of an organization that makes her at least feel like her work is legit. But she may cycle HARD toward vigilante hate before she spins back around.

Ooh, ooh, that reminds me... (spoiler/speculation follows that is utterly tangential and largely unimportant)

Spoiler:

I cannot remember where I saw it, but there's been chatter from the showrunners about eventually having an Arrowverse take on the Birds of Prey. One of the rumors was that "we're adding a location to Starling City that would make it perfect." So there may be a Starling City Clocktower....

Quote:


(That the only reason she was in the Glades and people did come to save her is her own bull-headedness, the same bull-headedness she's displaying even still, is a cool sort of irony.

Good observation.

I wish they did have a line of dialogue explaining WHY she wanted to grab those papers. I'm sure they were something like important notarized files of which copies would have no value or something but if she had said "But this is the paperwork that will save the orphanage" or something it would make her insistence on staying behind make a little more sesne.

Quote:
And yet, I'd prefer her, like Thea, growing past repeating the same mistakes, even if the second episode since Tommy's death is perhaps a bit too soon to expect her to 'get over it.'

This I totally agree with. All of the interviews has said is she is going on a seriously hard and difficult arc so I HOPE this is the case---her character development was on a hamster wheel for the first season and she still is struggling to break out of it, I acknowledge.

Quote:


There's always a weird disconnect between viewing a show, with a week, between episodes, or months between seasons, and our expectations of how the characters should react, when they might have had only hours and no reason at all to have gotten over something, just because the viewers have practically forgotten it!)

Well, in show time she's had the same amount of time we have, about 5 months. But having been through some difficult grieving processes myself, five months isn't that long. She'd known Tommy a long time and it was an unexpected death. And apparently she's working with people who are encouraging her vengeance wish rather than the opposite, which doesn't help.

Quote:


It might be an interesting twist, adding in some Golden Age potential, if Laurel's research into the city's legal precedents reveals that the city has had masked or hooded vigilantes before, perhaps during WW2, or just after, and that 'this all didn't start with the Hood.'

That would be AWESOME.

If at some point it involves her meeting an aging ex-boxer-vigilante who teaches her a few moves, all the better.

TheLoneCleric wrote:
I do like seeing Ollie out of his murderous depth. Nice twist for this season.

I think they're mapping an interesting journey for him. I wonder though if they are also going to have something that causes him to snap and then kill someone. I don't expect given the stakes they've established that he will just never kill again--it's just going to have more consequences.

Matthew Morris wrote:
I just lament my DVR didn't co-operate and record last Wednesday's episode.

Should be free on the CW's website if you can stream.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Thanks on the CW's site.

I thought I read that eventually Oliver-the-Hood becoming Ollie-the-Green-Arrow, the more swashbucklery version, was a possible goal of the series.

And since I won't be catching last week's episode until tomorrow at the earliest... Are people saying I did hear a Canary Cry in the 'next episdoe' bit?

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Matthew Morris wrote:

Thanks on the CW's site.

I thought I read that eventually Oliver-the-Hood becoming Ollie-the-Green-Arrow, the more swashbucklery version, was a possible goal of the series.

And since I won't be catching last week's episode until tomorrow at the earliest... Are people saying I did hear a Canary Cry in the 'next episdoe' bit?

We're already seeing some trick arrows (well done ones too).

I didn't see anything in the next episode bit about a canary cry, but I've heard rumors that she may have an electronic sonic device (akin to what Black Canary had in the early days of Birds of Prey, when Dixon penned it).

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Well I remember seeing a brief view of a blond woman (who I honestly thought was Kelly Hu's character) and thought I heard a pulsing high pitched sound.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I enjoyed the kinda grim feel of last season. There isn't a lot of stuff like that on television. That said, I'm ok with seeing where the new no-kill Ollie goes.

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Matthew Morris wrote:
Well I remember seeing a brief view of a blond woman (who I honestly thought was Kelly Hu's character) and thought I heard a pulsing high pitched sound.

Yeah, they have made the Canary and China White look a little too much alike from some angles/in certain lights. Fortunately the Canary has a mask.

In the soundtrack when the Canary first appears there is a little "chirp" but that is a soundtrack effect.

MeanDM, I think it's still gonna be grim, I just think it's also going to address the difficult journey of what it takes to be more merciful/heroic in a world that IS very grim.


Serious does not necessarily equal dramatic does not necessarily equal grim (at least for me)...

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Holy crap the preview out for tonight's episode is serious nightmare fuel. I'm sure others won't mind it and might even find it hokey but stuff like that scares the hell out of me. Actually had trouble sleeping.

I'll have to watch this one with my eyes shut half the time. Also they're apparently damseling Laurel again so meh. (Not seen in preview, just wad in ad text.) I mostly want to see how the Canary gets involved and will have to ignore the rest.

Liberty's Edge

I have to say I'm loving this show. Went on a binge and Watched the entire 1st season and then started on the 2nd and now will be watching it every Weds night to support the show. Between Arrow or SHIELD, being a Marvel guy ... I'd watch Arrow over SHIELD every day. I love the story as it unfolds and perhaps its hopeless but I would love for Ollie and Felicity to get a chance at a relationship despite the Black Canary existing. She's adorable around him ...

And the fight scenes in this show ... ugggh. I'm barely a guy at times but that stuff just makes me happy everytime Ollie gets into a scrap. I can't think of any action/fight scenes on TV that makes me as happy as when I watch this show. I've often wondered how much of it is actually the main actor.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I have less love for Felicity now that she's dissed my profession. (Which, by the way Felicity, as an administrative assistant, I have seniority over and better pay than our IT techs, and good skills and a graduate degree to boot.) ;)

But I actually think it would be interesting for the show to pursue "Olicity." I've noticed a lot of fans want to assume Oliver and Laurel must be "endgame" because Ollie and Dinah Laurel romanced each other in the comics at several points. But I would note that their relationship was always tumultuous, and their happy marriage IIRC ended with Dinah shoving an arrow through a possessed Ollie's neck. (I think he was possessed. Or an impostor. Still, the marriage was over anyway.) Last I checked "endgame" doesn't mean "ended in separation post various complicated issues involving death, resurrection, divorce, etc."

And in the nDCU, Dinah Laurel is nonexistent, and Dinah Drake Lance, married to Detective Lance (IIRC; I don't actually read the nDCU comics but that's what I've seen in summaries online), is a contemporary of Oliver Queen. So I wouldn't trust comics to dictate ANYTHING as to what will happen with Ollie and Laurel in Arrow (and if they are endgame, ending in a happy stable relationship, that will in fact be a change of pace from the comics, AFAIK).

And yeah, Misery, the fight scenes are awesome. I think a lot of it is Stephen Amell, although I would assume a lot of the jumpy stunts and the like would be a double.

The Exchange

I don't know alot of what I like about Amell as an actor is he managed to get the body language and movement shifts pretty spot on in season 1.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

A couple notes.

Metamorpho Chemicals. Heh.

Well looks like we got a Clocktower and a mysterious stranger in Canary.

And did anyone else catch the name of the boat? I chuckled.

Liberty's Edge

Spoilering all of this as I'm speculating of what we've seen so far!

Spoiler:

Well the very ending of last night's episode put EVERYTHING into perspective. We have a guy dressed EXACTLY like Malcolm Merlyn (in his black archer outfit) show up and tell Black Canary Raz' Al Ghul (sp) wants her to return.

That means when Malcom disappeared many years ago and found " a purpose" he found the League of Shadows. Just like in the first Batman movie, Malcom was sent to Starling City to try and save it, thinking he could do so by purging the Glades, perhaps at the behest of the Shadow group but he probably didn't need much encouragement given what happened to his wife.

Malcom's dead so they send in the Black Canary (is why she shows up just now perhaps) to see how the city is fairing after the Glades were destroyed to see how the city is doing and if that "fixed" it and made it worth saving.

Black Canary is Sarah Lance it seems and she was ALSO taken in by the League of Shadows and is why she's so well trained.

And since she's home, she's not sure she wants to go back ... perhaps?

Well thats what I think anyway.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Good episode. I had to shut my eyes through the scary part though. *is five*

I didn't catch the boat name. The one by the Island?

Regarding Misery's spoiler...

Spoiler:

Well, Malcolm revealed last season he had gone to Nanda Parbat to train, but it's now official with the name drop of both Ra's and the League.

It does make you wonder if there is some technological version of a "Lazarus Pit" in the Arrowverse, and Sara was perhaps saved by it (which is also a nod to the comics in fact, as Dinah Laurel was tossed into the Lazarus Pit once). And if it exists..... well, we did hear John Barrowman is on the cast list for this season.... could still be for flashbacks, but it really causes one to speculate.

I also wonder if Sin has some ties to the League or some other group--while older, she seems to be a nod to the little girl Black Canary adopted in the comics, who was an assassin trainee. I.e., she is someone she brought with her to the city.

What is exciting is it looks like both Sara and Ollie will reveal their identities to each other next episode.

Quote:
And since she's home, she's not sure she wants to go back ... perhaps?

I'm wondering why she came to Starling City in the first place. Was it simply to check up on Laurel and Quentin after the earthquake (and was that with al Ghul's approval?) or was she sent BY the League to do something, and she's taken awhile to get back, which is why she has now been sent for?

How does the focus on protecting women fit in?

And likewise, was she planning to leave once she was done and was it Laurel and Quentin being in danger that made her decide she needed to stay? Or was she just planning to move in? Obviously her hideout is pretty rough so it doesn't look like she was setting to move in permanently but maybe that will change. (Also, yay Clocktower.)

Dark Archive

This is really getting good, with the League of Shadows tie-in.

I'm very pleased with how things are tying together.

Liberty's Edge

DeathQuaker wrote:

Good episode. I had to shut my eyes through the scary part though. *is five*

I didn't catch the boat name. The one by the Island?

Regarding Misery's spoiler...

** spoiler omitted **

I have to know, whats the scary part for you? Just curious. If you don't want to share, that's cool of course. No judgments.

As for Black Canary

Spoiler:

I think she was sent there by the League to check up on the city after the Earthquake since their previous member, Malcolm Merlyn, is dead and they need a new one. They seem to be VERY happy with the 'you're from this city so we'll send you' kind of thing if Batman Begins says anything (I'm not a big DC person so I'm clueless on comics. I know it's not the same universe but still.

So if Malcolm is dead, and he was from the city, send the OTHER person who was from the city there ...

All WILD speculation of course and I might be totally off base.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Misery wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:

Good episode. I had to shut my eyes through the scary part though. *is five*

I have to know, whats the scary part for you? Just curious. If you don't want to share, that's cool of course. No judgments.

I'm not going to spoiler this since it was in a preview:

The same part they previewed Tuesday, where the Dollmaker is on the phone with Lance while he kills the girl. There's a level of torture and body horror there that really gets to me.

Quote:


As for Black Canary

Spoiler:

Quote:

I think she was sent there by the League to check up on the city after the Earthquake since their previous member, Malcolm Merlyn, is dead and they need a new one. They seem to be VERY happy with the 'you're from this city so we'll send you' kind of thing if Batman Begins says anything (I'm not a big DC person so I'm clueless on comics. I know it's not the same universe but still.

So if Malcolm is dead, and he was from the city, send the OTHER person who was from the city there ...

Actually your speculation leads me to another question -- if both Malcolm and Sara were trained by the League... did Malcolm know Sara was alive?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Re the boat's name

Spoiler:
If I read it right, it's Amazo
The Canary bit is interesting could DC finally be buying a clue from Marvel and trying to build a cinematic universe prior to a JLA movie?

The Exchange

We already know their moving in that direction with Barry showing up later in the season.

Liberty's Edge

I hope against hope that they keep these characters as canon for their Movie verse.


Spoiler:

Yes, the name of the boat is the Amazo. There has been talk about Professor Ivo making an appearance on the island earlier this year.


I read that they were putting Barry into the show as a psudeopilot for a "the flash" show rather than a Justice League movie...whihc I am totally fine with especially if the shows are all as awesome as this one.

I say let Marvel have the box office and take over TV. its already happening The Avengers was awesome but agents of shield is sub par. We couldhave a diffrent DC show for every night of the week...

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