Characters from the upcoming Flash series that were sort of clumsily inserted into the episode. ** spoiler omitted **who were those two warehouse nerds that shot Slade with a ray gun? and what was that ray gun??Man Under the Hood
** spoiler omitted **
I would add that the dialogue pretty well explains who they are: they are people from STAR Labs, in Starling City to help close up a warehouse, and their dialogue with Felicity shows she met them when she went to visit Barry Allen, and they are thus friends of Barry Allen.
I do agree their presence was a little clunky. I liked seeing them fight with Deathstroke, actually, but their presence took up time that could have expanded some needed character development elsewhere (I felt the same about Barry Allen earlier--it was neat to see him, but I wish they had just done a separate pilot without using Arrow as a screen test for him... the plot gets complicated enough as it is).
Regarding Peter's spoilers:
I liked a lot of this episode. Roy coming back to haunt them was pretty obvious. Looks like next week it'll be worse judging by the preview.
How many times will Ollie say, "We can't think of [person] right now, we need to focus on Slade," before he realizes that Slade expects him to prioritize things that way and thus target [person] while Ollie is obsessing over the wrong person.
Isabel is sort of a weak character in my opinion, and gets weaker by the moment. I've really lost all interest in her arc.
I'm kind of looking forward to even-more-psycho Isabel once she wakes up from the Mirakuru. But I agree, she nor the story sold the "I am a woman scorned!" story very well.... even if it is very true to the comics, from what I understand.
The fight where Slade jumped them was pretty cool.
Props to Felicity for being smart enough to lay low.
Liked the evolution of Laurel in this episode.
Me too, and Quentin -- clearly, he is being willfully ignorant so he has plausible deniability.
Not sure about the reveal at the end regarding having had a chance to cure him.
The big wall-banger there is of course that if Ollie really knew about a possible cure and didn't seek it out for Roy's sake, it makes him to look waaaaay more selfish and idiotic than I think the writers intend. Or maybe the writers did intend that.
Laurel may have had her pills, but Ollie's a secret addict. Secret identity is one thing but there's so much he holds to his chest that is unnecessary. For example, I don't understand why Ollie didn't just warn Thea and Moira that he knew Slade when they all first met. He didn't have to say, "I'm the Arrow," he can just say, "I saw him on the island, and he was a bad man, look at this scar he gave me." ((I also have never understood why Sara and Sin pretended not to know each other. EVERYONE knew Sara came into town before revealing herself to her family, saying she met Sin and Sin helped her out is no big deal.))
Re the cure itself, I don't know if Deathstroke will be cured but my guess is Roy will be.
I liked Digg getting a bit of a moment in the sun.
He was awesome backup in this, really on point.
Really hoping Merlin comes back to help them against Slade.
John Barrowman and Willah Holland (Thea) have been recording randomness together on Twitter so I'm going to guess he'll be back.
Also Stephen Amell said something on Facebook or Twitter regarding the finale that said "EVERYBODY'S HERE." Which I take to mean... if they had a major role at some point in the series, they're gonna show up in the finale. The Suicide Squad, Nyssa, Merlyn, maybe even Huntress.
I anticipate the final kill shot will be delivered by Laurel's friend Joanna de la Vega. ;)
Characters from the upcoming Flash series that were sort of clumsily inserted into the episode.who were those two warehouse nerds that shot Slade with a ray gun? and what was that ray gun??Man Under the Hood
** spoiler omitted **
Not only that, but they're actually well-known DC names:
In March 2014, it was revealed that Gustin would not appear in a third episode of Arrow as originally planned. However, Danielle Panabaker and Carlos Valdes appear in the Arrow episode "The Man Under the Hood" in their roles as Caitlin Snow and Cisco Ramon, respectively. Arrow executive producer Marc Guggenheim stated, "This was something that really came about because obviously Barry is in a coma at the end of ["Three Ghosts"]. That pretty much made it impossible for Barry to appear in [the third episode, as originally planned]... The idea of bringing in [Caitlin Snow and Cisco Ramon] really, really appealed to us because it allowed us to honor our original intention [of] doing something Flash-related around episode 19 or 20 [of season two] without having comatose Barry and basically paying Grant Gustin a lot of money to sit around with his eyes closed just unconscious the whole episode... It allows us to further flesh out the Flash universe in Arrow."
Caitlin Snow
Cisco Ramon
Now, whether they'll eventually turn into these characters or remain non-super is another matter.
Wah, wah, wah, Thea. Quit regressing to your useless Season 1 self.
What really bugged me is that she proclaimed, "Do you think that I am just some jilted lover?" And for a moment, I was expecting some more powerful motivation or something genuinely serious... and instead, nope, jilted lover is it.
No idea why you'd expect something else... jilted lover as motivation is par for the course for the CW.
Lots of problems in the last episode or two, for sure.
But, with that said, Lance (Quentin, I guess) is (finally) getting more awesome.
Wow, there was some intense stuff.
Moira, oh Moira, I love you so...
But I knew you were a goner as soon as you gave that "I am so proud of you" speech.
And while I have wild fantasies about Moira getting injected with Mirakuru, and then tearing Blood and Slade new a@~%@~+s before ruling the city and her children with an iron fist, that sadly is probably not to be.
And she died still with at least two secrets! That Malcolm is alive (but hunted by the League), but also that she knows Ollie has a son. Well, baby, but I'm pretty sure son. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that nice young lady, while not seemingly half Black and Chinese (if I'm remembering that right), was indeed Sandra Hawke.
I am looking forward to watching Thea flip. Maybe she really will start the road to becoming Speedy.
Pretty sure Sara just went to go recruit Nyssa to help fight Slade. I'm glad she said goodbye to Sin this time.
Oh and thank god she dumped Ollie. That ship was going nowhere. I also love that she pulled an Ollie on Ollie, both in fleeing a proposal of deeper commitment, and in giving the "I have to leave you to protect you" line.
"New" villain coming up next week too.
Looks like Summer Glau's Isabel Rochev will be taking on the role of Ravager
"New" villain coming up next week too.
** spoiler omitted **
I saw that too! Very excited!
I will keep saying it...
I HATE EVERYTHING DC has been doing since they launched the New 52...
EXCEPT ARROW!
Arrow is the ONLY thing they are doing right!
I really hope that carries over to Flash, especially since I LOVE how they built up his origin story.
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I don't feel as vehemently about it, but I am largely with you, SeeDarkly_X. If I weren't into Arrow, my active fandom of DC would pretty much involve occasionally collecting some Wonder Woman merchandise. I was a DC girl from the age of three up to Flashpoint and the New 52. Then they either cancelled or made unrecognizable the titles I was reading at the time, and most of the titles they brought in anywhere from simply didn't interest me to outright annoyed me. I have occasionally opened up a few books to see if there's anything that grabs me or if things have changed for the better, but I find for me, that's not the case. Since the New52, I've bought two DC titles: Sword of Sorcery, which they barely marketed and then cancelled after 8 issues, and the Movement, which has been cancelled and its last issue (#12) is coming out this May. So there's nothing left to keep me there. I will on occasion pick something up to see what's up, but I imagine I will not be reading any DC material for a good long time--probably until there's several editorial changes.
I've pretty much accepted that the heroes of my childhood and adolescence are effectively dead, and have moved on. I read mostly indies and Marvel titles, something less than a decade ago I'd never imagine I'd be doing. I wrote an essay about it on my blog, deathquaker.blogspot.com
Arrow is in an interesting, low-power take on the DCU--it's an "Elseworld" I accept and hope will continue to thrive. I certainly don't agree with everything they've done (Helena Bertinelli is one of my favorite comic book characters so I hate how psycho they've made their version--although I think the end of the "Birds of Prey" episode shows hope for the character), but I find it largely fun and engaging, and the takes on the characters may be different from the DCU I grew up loving, but they have "souls" and I can relate to them and enjoy them. I like that they definitely pay homage to the source material but do their own thing with it -- it contains the right spirit, but tells its own story. Whereas New52 tells the same old stories in entirely the wrong spirit, I feel.
So I agree, I hope Arrow does and continues to do well. It doesn't have massive ratings, but it has good ratings for the CW. I am less personally interested in Flash, but I wish the showrunners every success with it.
Now, for the movieverse... I was part of the divided fanbase that liked Man of Steel... (this is not an invitation or expression of interest to discuss Man of Steel; there's another thread for that)... but I am very skeptical of the next movie since its sounds more like a fanwank clusterf#@!, trying to throw the Big Three in and see if they stick, and I'd rather just another good Superman movie (Batman has enough movies, and Wonder Woman needs her own, for f&!!'s sake).
my fantasies involve an unlimited suply of beer and episodes to watch... :(
Why would you want to simply watch the beer? ;-)
As far as Thea becoming Speedy, I don't think that's going to happen. With Moira dead, there's nothing stopping Malcom from coming back to claim his daughter. Remember, Moira threatened to tell the league he's still alive if he came near Thea. That threat has now been voided.
As far as Thea becoming Speedy, I don't think that's going to happen. With Moira dead, there's nothing stopping Malcom from coming back to claim his daughter. Remember, Moira threatened to tell the league he's still alive if he came near Thea. That threat has now been voided.
On the contrary, my sense is that for all the reasons you state, he has the opportunity to take Thea under his wing and will begin training her in archery--something Oliver doesn't have the balls to do, because his philosophy is that it's apparently safer to leave his loved ones in the dark rather than teach them to fight it, even though that's been proven wrong time and time again. She doesn't have to become Speedy as Oliver's protege, she may well join up with him later. Or she may just remain "Dark Speedy." (And technically she IS Speedy: that is her established nickname. Whether that remains or not I don't know, but she is the character named "Speedy" and that means whatever it will mean for the Arrowverse. And for the record, the EPs have said Roy will eventually get the Arsenal handle.)
Oh, Arrow, how you tease me!
TWO separate occasions to see Thea wiped out... and didn't come through. :(
Thea's middle name is Dearden and her nickname is Speedy--she is clearly the show's Mia Dearden expy. Like Dinah Laurel Lance and Roy Harper, I am certain she is not going to die anytime soon, no matter how much some of the audience would like any of the three to go--they represent the comics Arrow family in the Arrowverse and if they are ever going to be killed, it's going to be a long while yet and played up for maximum drama as possible --- and as Moira Queen I'm pretty sure is the big death of the season, they're not going to kill one of those folks as it will feel like an effective afterthought. As it is, Roy's probably the most expendable of those, he really has no role that can't be served by someone else. Some may find Thea irritating, but she is a good foil and antagonist (in the pure literary sense) to Ollie, and she calls him out on his bullshit in a way which he needs which the others don't quite manage to do (others do call him out on his BS, but not in the same way). Losing her would not serve the narrative very well.
Likewise, I'm pretty sure Felicity's here to stay as she serves a fairly crucial role, both as the tech expert and as comic relief.
I think these have a higher chance of dying but are unlikely to die yet:
Diggle: I don't think he will, and I certainly hope he won't, but killing him would throw Ollie off his game and force him to grow in other ways without having Diggle's guiding hand to keep him on an even keel. If he dies though, it probably won't be this season.
Sara: She's got her own story and I think it's a long way toward ending. But she is more a dark reflection of Ollie than a proper foil and at some point down the line I don't think she will serve Team Arrow as best as others possibly could (Roy if he grows up, Thea if she gets trained by daddy but then goes back to Ollie). So at some point I think she may die, or at least either leave or turn evil (White Canary, perhaps--she's never actually been given a color, and in the comics, it's the White Canary who is the member of the League of Assassins). And of course a large chunk of the fandom thinks she will be killed off so Laurel can take the Black Canary mantle. However, give so many fans think that, I honestly think it's unlikely--the EPs tend to veer away from mass fan predictions. In a way, the fact that a huge number of vocal fans think she'll get killed at some point is what makes it least likely that will happen. I think she and Laurel will either evolve side by side as continuing mirrors of each other, each playing an aspect of Black Canary, or they will veer off into their own evolutions without requiring one or the other to die.
People most likely on the chopping block, if anyone else is to die anytime soon:
Quentin: He may get to the point where he knows too much and he gets stuck in a lot of crosshairs. It would also put both Sara and Laurel into other directions.
Sin: She's a great character, but not crucial, and thus expendable.
Losing her would not serve the narrative very well.
As you can imagine, I could not possibly disagree with this more.
Losing Thea would immediately improve the writing and narrative by orders of magnitude. The only reason the others don't call him out on his BS "in the same way" is because of a failure in writing. (And whether it's even necessary or not is questionable.)\
I agree about the most likely (and unlikely) deaths. I have no expectation Thea is going anywhere - she is so much CW fodder that she's going to be around for a long, long, time. (Especially after Moira - she and her angst is going to be milked heavily for a while.) As much as a detriment to the show as that will be.
I think the "one more" that Slade mentions is actually Ollie's illegitimate child. Otherwise why mention it now?
I doubt they're killing of Roy, especially any time soon.
I wouldn't be surprised if Slade "disarmed" him though.
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** spoiler omitted **
While that is indeed possible...
But...
When Slade said, "There's one more person to die," Ollie said "No..." like he knew who that person probably was....
And Ollie does not know about the child, and I doubt his... hell, let's just call her Sandra... I doubt Sandra would be the first person to come to mind, he hasn't seen her in 7 years.
I also doubt Ollie told Slade about Sandra on the island. Slade has a lot of resources but I'm trying to picture Slade's information gathering versus Moira's sneakypants abilities and thinking despite Slade's considerable abilities, Moira has a fair chance of being able to keep what she wants secret a secret. So I'd be surprised if somehow Slade knows about Sandra.
To make that whole threat work as relates to the kid, you'd have to explain to Ollie that Sandra did have a baby, that the baby is fine, and drag them out from Central City to Starling City and THEN threaten his life.... and that involves both an unwieldy amount of exposition (to Ollie) and lots of other contrivance to work. Sure, Arrow has done ridiculous contrivance before, but I'm not sure this is a case where they'd try.
So I have a feeling it's not the kid. I think the purpose of the flashback was, for now, to give Moira some extra screentime and to show she still died with a number of secrets untold. (The EPs have said the child will play a role (whether it's simply being mentioned or something else, I don't know) in Season 3, so it will come back, I just don't know if it will come back that soon.)
Most likely the person in question is either Laurel, as Slade knows she was important to Ollie--he even tried to contact her from the island--or Sara, of course because she was the one Oliver "chose" instead of Shado, and Slade no doubt feels the need to punish her almost as much for Ollie for her role on the island. Sara's probably the most likely target of that pair, because Slade could have of course done horrible things to Laurel when he first showed up at her apartment.
Other candidates would include Felicity or Diggle, who have been invaluable to Ollie since his return and have been seen enough with him--including in the fight in the Foundry--for him to know they are important to him. Dig's actually a decent target because Dig is in a way, Ollie's new Slade--the older soldier who acts as a mentor and "big brother" to Ollie. Slade killing him would have a lot of symbolic meaning. Felicity of course is valuable for her abilities, and Slade likely saw Ollie dive to protect her during the fight in the Foundry (and he knows she has minimal fighting skills, as she was smart enough to hang back during same fight).
Anyone else has already either been targeted or just isn't important/known enough to Ollie.
My thoughts on the one more...
I think Felicity's death would be a heartbreaker, and given that Slade has as yet not touched her, but saw Oliver dive off to protect her...
My thoughts on the one more...
** spoiler omitted **
Sarah or Felicity, and it would not shock me if one of the two were killed off. So long as Felicity hangs around you are really mucking with Oliver's romantic chemistry, and as long as Sarah is around it is hard to grow Laurel into he BC role.
I know I am in the minority here, but I think Sara can enable Laurel building her fighting skills, she is not preventing her. Laurel has some self-defense abilities and she has surely seen by now she needs to improve them if she wants to survive. She knows Sara is the Canary now... IF Sara doesn't leave with the LOA by the end of the season (which is my prediction as to what Sara will do provided she survives to the end of the last episode), it seems sensible Laurel might ask her for her help. Otherwise if Sara leaves with the LOA (as publicity shots show her returning with Nyssa, and it's likely she's told Nyssa she will return to her if the LOA help fight Slade and his Mirakuru Mooks) and those who think Sara does need to be absent to push Laurel into a crimefighting role, that creates her absence without actually having to kill her.
I think Felicity's death would be a heartbreaker, and given that Slade has as yet not touched her, but saw Oliver dive off to protect her...
Technically she was in the line of fire as much as anyone else there--Oliver of course had to dive to protect her BECAUSE he was firing bullets in their direction. So on one hand, he may have considered her expendable but on the other, Slade may since have recognized her value... in other words, I agree with you, but I'm nitpicking because I'm a nerd. :)
This show is turning into a soap opera. I only watch it reluctantly while playing facebook games... :P
"Turning into"...? :D
It's following the fine history of 'quality' CW program content. If there's no teen/young adult angst, unrequited love, family strife, completely wacky motivations, and the inexplicable withholding of information, they wouldn't be doing their jobs.
Those of us who suffered through Smallville know what to expect... except Arrow has way more and better action scenes and combat, surprisingly enough; Felicity is at least as funny as Lois Lane was, and Diggle beats every sidekick character ever shown on Smallville. (And I'd say it also has no Lana Lang, but it has Laurel/Thea, so it's a wash there.)
This show is turning into a soap opera. I only watch it reluctantly while playing facebook games... :P
A soap opera-like drama on the CW? GOSH! Say it ain't so!
Fortunately for me, I LOVE soap operas with lots of fight scenes in it.
And for that matter... comic books pretty much ARE printed versions of soap operas. The key features of a soap opera is that they're 1) serial in nature with an open-ended narrative and 2) frequently melodramatic. They also often feature implausible events or abilities, and bizarre coincidences like "I'm you're long lost child you never knew about!" (See: Connor Hawke, Damian Wayne, Lian Harper). Themes of rich people using resources to do either amazingly helpful or ridiculously evil things abound (See: Bruce Wayne, Oliver Queen, Lex Luthor). There's a lot of crime, hospital, and legal drama thrown in there. Superhero genre comic books just add to the existing stew ridiculous costumes, vigilantism themes, and superpowers to the mix.
So just think: whenever you read a comic book, you're basically reading sequential art's answer to soap operas.
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I still don't get why someone would "suffer" through a show only to complain about it afterwards. Just stop watching it if it's that bad in your opinion.
I still don't get why someone would "suffer" through a show only to complain about it afterwards. Just stop watching it if it's that bad in your opinion.
You honestly don't get why? I find that hard to believe. Guess you haven't thought about it hard enough.
Usually because there's just enough good stuff to see what comes next; that Superman is one's favorite superhero; and/or maybe there may be a decent payoff at the end. (For the record, there was. The last 10 minutes of Smallville is among the greatest moments in TV AFAIC.)
Thought this episode was pretty weak overall. Lots of pieces moving, but the entire thing felt like a set up for next week. On the other hand, the teaser for next week and the return of you-know-who is worth it. Hopefully the climax of this season is as good as I hope it will be.
Agreed.
Also my first thought upon the episode ending was "Well, that was abrupt". Anybody else feel that way?
It just kinda...ended. Not even in a real cliff hanger-y way, it just stopped.
Also my first thought upon the episode ending was "Well, that was abrupt". Anybody else feel that way?
I felt that way.
Thinking on it a bit more, that may be because of how the episode was just then ramping up like it was going to do so after a whole episode of meandering.
Kinda like a race where everyone is just starting to get into their stride...and then the finish line pops up.
The episode really felt like "Act II" of a several act play. Which in some ways I think is what they're going for but yes, it seemed to just stop and start. The "to be continued" was clearly implied at the end.
I did like some of the stuff that happened here... I liked the developments with Thea and Ollie's conversation with her. I liked the Intervention with Ollie. I liked the advancement of Laurel's plot, even if she (as she unfortunately often is) was handed some awfully hamfisted dialogue. I'm getting tired of the "I know you better than anyone" speech--we get it, and got it after she said it the first 3,000 times. Laurel believes she knows Ollie really well. (Whether her belief is grounded in reality is subject for debate.) Isabel is scarier out of costume than in. Dig and Felicity were awesome throughout. And oh my freaking lord, the interrogation scene.
THAT SCENE.
"You're going to wish I beat you..."
That was hilarious. Felicity interrogating that guy, loved it.
Very obvious that it was a stunt double when Ravager first appeared to beat Diggle.
smallville was better than arrow... I blame Lex Luther... when Rosembaum left the show, I was pretty lukewarm about it
That's completely delusional, and I watched every single episode of Smallville. Loved it, even when it was ridiculous and campy. Rosembaum was easily the best part about it, but Smallville never approached Arrow levels of goodness within its first three seasons, let alone two. If we start seeing a "Freak of the Week" from Mirakuru pop up, then we can talk.
Arrow has been awesome. I'm even willing to give Flash's terrible costume a chance based on its say-so.
I would say which show is better than which is a matter of personal taste, and I'd hope we could respect each other's opinions on that. Personally I definitely prefer Arrow to Smallville, but I largely watched Smallville for Chloe and the occasional interesting guest star or some such. But they are very different flavor shows, even if they are both superhero shows on the CW, and are likely to be the favorites of different folks.
IMO, I would agree Arrow's early seasons are much stronger than Smallville's in terms of having more complex arc narratives.
Did you just dis Deathstroke?
Furthermore, did you just insinuate Aquaman was cooler than Deathstroke?
*carefully moves away from Purple Dragon Knight*
aquaman, flash, cyborg, supergirl, brainiac, zod...
vs.
slade?
Flash was in both, bro, don't even play.
You're also forgetting Deadshot, and a cameo by Harley Quinn (<---Arrow wins 5evr for that so neener neener boo boo), and a bunch more so I dun even know what the point of your post there was.
Again, I loved Smallville.
First two seasons though?
Clark, Lex, Lana, Pete Ross, The Kents, and Jor-El
vs
Arrow, Black Canary, Merlyn, Deadshot, Shrapnel, Arsenal, Bronze Tiger, Deathstoke, Eddie Fryers, Dr. Ivo, Huntress, Shado, Brother Blood, Amanda Waller, Doll Maker, Flash, Clock King, Vertigo, Ras al Ghul, Jean Loring, Cyrus Gold, Firefly, Wintergreen, Drakon, Blackhawk....
There's really no comparison. The number of characters, both obscure and popular, is incredible for a series that's not even two full seasons old.
You can like Smallville more than Arrow. But I question the objective criteria by which one determines that it is better.
Did you just dis Deathstroke?
Furthermore, did you just insinuate Aquaman was cooler than Deathstroke?
*carefully moves away from Purple Dragon Knight*
I thought for a moment he was postulating some battle royale scenario. I don't know about Slade dealing with two Kryptonians, but the rest... I wouldn't assume there is much beyond Deathstroke's abilities.
Especially this particular version of Slade who is less "only slightly above peak human but has off the charts combat prowess in terms of pure skill" and more "still has that same combat prowess, or nearly so, and can punch through concrete and take small arms fire without feeling it".
Again, I loved Smallville.
First two seasons though?
Clark, Lex, Lana, Pete Ross, The Kents, and Jor-El
vs
Arrow, Black Canary, Merlyn, Deadshot, Shrapnel, Arsenal, Bronze Tiger, Deathstoke, Eddie Fryers, Dr. Ivo, Huntress, Shado, Brother Blood, Amanda Waller, Doll Maker, Flash, Clock King, Vertigo, Ras al Ghul, Jean Loring, Cyrus Gold, Firefly, Wintergreen, Drakon, Blackhawk....
There's really no comparison. The number of characters, both obscure and popular, is incredible for a series that's not even two full seasons old.
You can like Smallville more than Arrow. But I question the objective criteria by which one determines that it is better.
Hmm, that should mean that if Arrow ever hits 10 seasons, we'll have several Justice Leagues, the Suicide Squad, the Birds of Prey, the Secret Six, and Villains United at least.... possibly with cameos from Apokalips. ;)
I thought for a moment he was postulating some battle royale scenario. I don't know about Slade dealing with two Kryptonians, but the rest... I wouldn't assume there is much beyond Deathstroke's abilities.Did you just dis Deathstroke?
Furthermore, did you just insinuate Aquaman was cooler than Deathstroke?
*carefully moves away from Purple Dragon Knight*
I'd watch that.
Slade would find some way to trick Zod back into the Phantom Zone if he couldn't figure out how to kill him.