Arrow


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DeathQuaker wrote:
Backfromthedeadguy wrote:
Sorry to wound your ego, but I wasn't even thinking of you when I wrote it. I was addressing a general view not you as an individual.

My ego's just fine, but thanks for your concern. I brought it up here and it was only Set and I who were discussing it that I noticed (and if I did miss someone else, I apologize for excluding them); I haven't seen it talked about a lot elsewhere. If you've got links to this "general view" that's been commonly expressed, please share them as I'd be very interested to hear what other people have to say about the issue. Thanks. :)

On a hopefully less contentious issue, what did you think of this week's episode?

I thought it was great! I have mixed feelings on seeing Count Vertigo die; but it was a pretty sweet death scene so it's hard to complain. But since Malcolm Merlyn is back from the grave I wouldn't be surprised if Vertigo is somehow brought back as well.

As to the specific issue, I've seen these arguments brought up with other shows as well, not just Arrow--Smallville and Buffy/Angel for example. I can understand a 'damsel in distress' complaint if it were the same character getting in trouble over and over again (especially a clueless character) but I don't believe Arrow has crossed that line. And sure there are other ways to be 'heroic' but saving lives is the ultimate form of that concept. That's what I want to see in my superhero stories.


If you don't spend time performing rescues, what are the alternatives? Preventing thefts/recovering stolen goods? Exposing corrupt politicians? Identifying a murderer and bringing him in? There are other things heroes can do, but rarely do they have the urgency and risk of rescuing a person in danger.

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Ok...The flash is created, and Deathstroke is there and probably Solomon Grundy. Although it's kinda bothersome that his origin story will not be a curse.

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I think overall the first season was strong, although for some reason, I didn't quite dig the mid-season "finale" as much as I liked prior episodes.

Spoilers and Speculation:

Spoiler:

I was certain Slade was alive somewhere, but it was interesting to see him revealed as the mover and shaker behind the current bad guy plot. I also like that his goal isn't simply to kill Ollie, he has a more complex vendetta.

Blood seems comparatively a cardboard villain, and it feels very cliched that he is trying to woo Laurel. Also, seriously, Laurel, WTF? Mind, I liked the way Laurel was written this episode otherwise -- she was competent, she was approached by the younger crew for help, she responded usefully. She also got introduced to Sin now, which puts her a step closer to Sara. Honestly, I think many of Laurel's best moments have been with Thea and other characters who are not Ollie (or Tommy) so if they tie her more to Team Speedy, that can only be a good thing.

Speaking of, I love Team Speedy. I love the way Thea and Roy and now Sin are becoming their own little Bloodhound Gang. It is feeling very natural and while Roy in particular does some dumb stuff (Sin should be going with him at least, she can fight) it is interesting to see where they are going to go with that group -- and if or when Ollie will reveal his secret to them and they become a larger team.

I felt the way Arrow's identity was revealed to Barry was ridiculously contrived. I dig that Felicity was trying to keep Oliver being revealed to the general public, but the whole "let's get the CSI assistant to save his life" just felt really really forced. That said, once they got past that ridiculous plot awkwardness, I like how things developed with the characters involved.

They are now doing the rest of Barry's story in his own pilot. I am glad for both Arrow's sake and the sake of a chance for a Flash show -- it means Arrow gets to develop its own characters and Flash isn't clinging to Arrow's coattails.

Random thoughts/speculation/blathering:

- Theory: so, this was "Three Ghosts" and it took place during Christmas. They were not anvilicious with the reference but if you want to draw a Christmas Carol parallel... Shado would be the Ghost of Christmas Past, Slade the Ghost of Christmas Present, and Tommy the Ghost of Christmas Future. Shado reveals the fears and doubts that have held Ollie back in the past. Slade makes him face his present guilt and doubt (plus a double "present"--he is actually alive in the present). Tommy gives him hope, shows him the future can be better if he tries.

- So this particle accelerator explosion appears to spread across much of Central City. Dinah Drake Lance lives in Central City. Alex Kingston is apparently filming with the Arrow crew again. I wonder if something happens to her or at least Laurel or Quentin or even Sara checks up on her and that's how she gets involved. I hope that her presence also means the Black Canary plotline will also develop further, and moreover that she will get a real part that doesn't feel like half of it ended up on the cutting room floor (there are some good deleted scenes on the DVD of season 1) -- otherwise it will be Waste of Alex Kingston's Talents Part II.

- I am certain Merlyn did not just show up to be scared away by Moira threatening to sic Ra's al Ghul on his butt. Moira also now has a contact with the League of Assassins. This could go in all kinds of interesting directions. Right now I wonder at a team up, eventually, of Deathstroke and Merlyn.

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Sara is the Canary now.
Also, Slade is Deathstroke. He's mostly a villain, and sometimes an Antihero in the comics. I knew he was going to turn evil the first moment he said what his name was.
Sebastian Blood is Brother Blood. A pretty neat villain.

Wait, They're making a new Flash? Nice.


Ok, because I don't have access to cable or network television by any means, I watch things via Netflix (can't afford other things like Hulu Plus). I've just discovered Arrow, and have finished Season One on Netflix, and have watched Episodes 5 through the current season fall season ender on the CW website. Is there any place online where I can find the first 4 episodes of Season Two?


The Week: How Arrow became the best superhero show on television

I find I have to agree with most of these summations.

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This episode was a solid return, I thought, if not whoopee-wow the way some episodes from previous.

Spoiler:

- I like Laurel having her own storyline, and that she knew to start getting suspicious when the lead Team Speedy put her on ended up making her aware of this psychiatric clinic--which then suddenly and mysteriously burned down just as she started looking into it. I just REALLY hope this doesn't end up with her tied up and needing rescue. Looking at previews, it looks more like her career will be sabotaged and her substance abuse issues will come to light, which will be more interesting.

- I do not get why Roy is keeping his abilities a secret from Thea. I guess it's because she'd be mad if she knew he'd gotten himself captured and experimented on. But she's kind of mad anyway, Roy... it seems to be dumb to keep Thea in the dark, because she's the kind of person who's just going to keep trying to find ways in until she knows what she needs to know.

- Speaking of which -- did Sebastian see Roy at the rally? Does that mean that he now knows that Roy survived, and thus also is likely a successful Mirakuru Experimentee?

- If everyone seems to know it's dumb to show up at a rally with a mad bomber on the loose, why did everyone in the universe show up at a rally when they knew a mad bomber was on the loose?

- Gail Simone's "The Movement" got name-dropped -- awesome.

- Flashbacks continue to be more interesting as time goes by. I am actually surprised Shado really is dead. I kind of thought they might have done the "secretly alive" bit -- especially as in the comics she's the mother of Robert Queen Jr. and I thought they might have dumped a baby daddy story on him later. But as she's actually buried now, probably safeish to assume she's dead. I say "ish" because there clearly is something Lazarus-Pit-esque in this world, with both Malcolm and Sara working for Ra's al Ghul and having come back from the dead (and I am interested to see how Sara "dies" in the past. I'm going to hazard a guess that Slade kills her).

Now this said, I'm kind of glad Shado is dead. I found her very bland, and I think a baby daddy plot would not have the right feel for this show (it's just what I thought might happen given the character's name). Sara is much more interesting to see Ollie with on the island, as is whacko Slade.

- Where the heck is Isabel? We haven't seen her in awhile. She was kind of introduced, set up, and then dropped.

- Really looking forward to see things come to a head with Laurel, Sebastian, Arrow, etc. Blood seems like a very interesting villain.

- Note on the previews: we see Slade saying Laurel Lance needs to be gotten rid of. This is because of her investigation of course. However, I wonder if Slade knows Laurel is Sara's sister? While this may have no bearing on anything, I just wonder.

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Spoiler:
Holy crap, was that Simon Tam blowing stuff up? Neat

Also, is Laurel's actress sick? Because her face looks very gaunt. To the point of me being worried about her health.

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Re: the spoiler: Yes, yes it was. It's a shame Isabel Rochev wasn't in the episode. :)

Re: Katie Cassidy: I don't know what is up with her, and I've been trying to hope for the best, but I have to agree she looks very, unhealthily, thin -- I've got one of two theories, based on things I've read on the Internet (to be taken with appropriate boulders of salt):

- Theory 1 is the unfortunate one: I have seen people (idiots) say she looked too "round faced" in the last season/commented on her gaining weight (when she just looked perfectly lovely and healthy). So she might have done what a lot of young actresses do and gone on some kind of crazy crash diet or developed an eating disorder, and you're looking at the results: a once lovely girl now looking very ill.

Also, IIRC she's trying to do Arrow, be in a movie, and runs her own clothing line. So there could also be something less insidious but she is still doing too much and not taking the time to properly take care of herself.

- Theory 2 is that to an extent, there are camera angle/clothing/makeup games being played to underline the fact the character Laurel is abusing drugs, and thus would start looking thin. IIRC one of the drugs she (the character) is on is an anti-anxiety drug, which can also make you lose your appetite.

I hope it's theory 2 or something like it. No one deserves to be ill or "punish" themselves for their looks, especially not someone who is naturally as pretty as she is (when she looks a healthy weight). If it is something closer to theory 1, I can only hope she's got real friends who will support her and that she will get better.

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Yeah, she was perfectly gorgeous before season 2.

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Maybe they didn't want to have River and Simon in the same episode, for fear of an impromptu Firefly reunion. :)

When Ollie was giving Felicity grief about her interest in Barry, I was waiting for her to bring up his own record on that score, and how his relationship with Helena affected his work and judgment.

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But why wold that be wrong? It would be awesome!


Finally got caught up on Arrow. Seems like I stopped watching Season 1 right before it started getting good. I mainlined the rest of Season 1 via Netflix and then tore through the season 2 episodes on my DVR.

I have to say, this episode was kind of meh. Not bad, but not super-exciting. It'd be nice if Digg would get a chance to do something more than play Oliver's conscience. This episode he finally leaves the Arrow Cave and doesn't do much more than get shot. It also seemed odd that Felicity would be the one to try to disarm the detonator, not Digg.

I agree that Katie Cassidy looked really unhealthy in this episode. I really hope it's them playing up her character's addiction and not an actual sign of real-life concerns.

I also found Slade's appearance rather distracting in this episode. In addition to giving him super powers, the Mirakuru apparently also did some manscaping.

Speaking of the Mirakuru, the name makes me shake my head every time I hear it. I find it unlikely that the WWII-era Japanese would use an English word for their super-soldier program. (Seriously, the word "mirakuru" is just "miracle" spelled out in kanji.)

I am curious where they're going with the super-powered Roy thing, since his comic counterpart doesn't have them. (Then again, my understanding is Deathstroke is supposed to be "peak human" as opposed to truly super-powered himself.)

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Set wrote:


When Ollie was giving Felicity grief about her interest in Barry, I was waiting for her to bring up his own record on that score, and how his relationship with Helena affected his work and judgment.

Good point. And if Felicity didn't bring it up, Diggle should have (as he has done in the past, and it would be in character for him to do).

Kalshane wrote:


I have to say, this episode was kind of meh. Not bad, but not super-exciting.

I think the fact that it came after "Three Ghosts" which was pretty phenomenal makes it seem meh by comparison. It's an episode where they're trying to set stuff up for the second season arc, so it's not going to be mindblowing. But it needs to be there.

Quote:


It'd be nice if Digg would get a chance to do something more than play Oliver's conscience. This episode he finally leaves the Arrow Cave and doesn't do much more than get shot. It also seemed odd that Felicity would be the one to try to disarm the detonator, not Digg.

He did get his own episode a few eps back, which few other Arrow regulars can say besides the main character. He also was hanging back in the Cave because Felicity wasn't there and he was playing the role of mission handler.

Mind, I don't disagree with you, it seems like they kind of only ever let him out to get him hurt, but that also plays into the writers not always really knowing what to do with the supporting cast except hurt, kidnap, hold hostage, or kill them. At the same time, I think there was good reason in this particular episode why he wasn't doing a lot of field work until the rally.

I think Digg asked Felicity to disarm the bomb because of the type of digital device it was. Digg would have the knowledge of how explosives work--which is why he warns her of the dead man's switch--but Felicity would have the engineering and programming skill to disable that particular device.

Quote:


Speaking of the Mirakuru, the name makes me shake my head every time I hear it. I find it unlikely that the WWII-era Japanese would use an English word for their super-soldier program. (Seriously, the word "mirakuru" is just "miracle" spelled out in kanji.)

Perhaps if it had been an American program it would have been called "Project Kiseki." ;)

(A word I only know because of Revolutionary Girl Utena. *sigh* "Kiseki o shinjete omoi wa todoko to.")

I don't know, if it's a secret project, naming it in a foreign language may well make sense if they're trying to hide it from their own people? It didn't seem like the U.S. knew about it at all so maybe they were confident they would either keep it from Americans or they would not get its significance.

Meta-wise, it's a callback to a substance called "Miraclo" in the comics.

Quote:
I am curious where they're going with the super-powered Roy thing, since his comic counterpart doesn't have them. (Then again, my understanding is Deathstroke is supposed to be "peak human" as opposed to truly super-powered himself.)

I do too. I wonder if it, or aspects of it, wears off after a time. Deathstroke mentioned the stuff is still in his blood and perhaps is keeping him alive--but his eye didn't grow back or anything...

On a somewhat separate note, the stuff reminds me a little bit of adrenalizine in the old Bionic Woman TV show. Basically makes your body act under the effects of adrenaline, giving you enhanced strength, endurance, pain resistance, and a sense of fearlessness.... but also makes you a bit crazy. The difference was this stuff was a drug you kept needing to take to maintain its effects, and it eventually wreaked havoc on your liver, which released toxins that made you even more crazy.


kalshane said wrote:
my understanding is Deathstroke is supposed to be "peak human" as opposed to truly super-powered himself.)
wikipedia said wrote:
Chosen for a secret experiment, the Army imbued him with enhanced physical powers in an attempt to create metahuman supersoldiers for the U.S. military. Deathstroke also possesses a healing factor in his blood that enables him to heal from physical injury much faster than a normal person; however, it does have limitations, as he could not heal his missing eye and cannot regenerate entire limbs. This enables him to recover from what would otherwise be fatal injuries, though recovering from such injuries renders him insane and animalistic for a short period.

If wikipedia can be trusted looks like the powers are canon.


Ok. I haven't read any recent stuff on him. I know back in the old Teen Titans comics they pulled the old "humans only use 10% of their brain" myth and had him be the subject of an experiment that let him use 90% of his, brain but that was the extent of it.

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Ruick wrote:
kalshane said wrote:
my understanding is Deathstroke is supposed to be "peak human" as opposed to truly super-powered himself.)
wikipedia said wrote:
Chosen for a secret experiment, the Army imbued him with enhanced physical powers in an attempt to create metahuman supersoldiers for the U.S. military. Deathstroke also possesses a healing factor in his blood that enables him to heal from physical injury much faster than a normal person; however, it does have limitations, as he could not heal his missing eye and cannot regenerate entire limbs. This enables him to recover from what would otherwise be fatal injuries, though recovering from such injuries renders him insane and animalistic for a short period.
If wikipedia can be trusted looks like the powers are canon.

His original powers were the 'uses 90% of his brain' nonsense that I already got ninja'd on. It made him a pretty awesome fighter, enough that Nightwing, no slouch in a fight thanks to being Batman Jr., knew that his only chance against him in a fight was to run away. I think Marvel's Taskmaster was an attempt to riff on Deathstroke, and, later, DC's Prometheus was a riff on Taskmaster, making him a 3rd generation incestuous inter-company knock-off. :)

His regeneration / immortality is a more recent addition, and, presumably, he can't regenerate his eye because his wife shot him in the face back in the eighties (go Adeline!), and he only gained regeneration this last decade.

The utter twaddle about Wintergreen recognizing his newly introduced daughter Rose because she had the same white hair as Slade (who Wintergreen knew back when he was blonde, before *he got old and his hair turned white*) is just another fine example of how the character's past (back in the ancient prehistory of *the 80s*) has been forgotten even by the people who are writing him.

Unless Slade has some sort of Lamarkian inheritance thing going on, and any future kids are going to be born with one eye as well. :)


Deadpool was also meant as riff of Deathstroke (which is why his real name ended up being Wade Wilson) but then got taken in a much different direction, thankfully.


Episode was aight. I more enjoyed the preview for the next one, which teases Slade's new mask (much better than the old foam one from before).

Looks like an awesome combo between the one from Arkham Origins and the one from Teen Titans. I like it.

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Action is definitely amping up. I think this was a strong episode although I feel like a few things were left out. I'm also wondering what Moira and Isabel are up to and hope we get a chance to catch up with both of them at some point (but I can also understand not including them).

Spoileriffic thoughts:

Spoiler:

- So Laurel is being Cassandraed because she has a drug problem. (Also, in good news, I am hoping Quentin's line about Laurel "looking awful" is an explanation for why KC has looked off--that they have been deliberately making her up that way.) I can buy this and think it's an interesting plot twist except....
---- Ollie knows the key file went missing.
---- I also don't get why Ollie thinks Blood is such an upstanding guy when Blood went out of his way to discredit him earlier in the season. I also feel like I missed when they properly became allies.

Team Speedy were also the ones who originally turned Laurel onto Blood possibly being bad news because of Max disappearing after the blood drive, so I am wondering if or when they tie this issue back together. I am especially hoping Thea gets some time with Laurel, as she'd be the best person to reality-check Laurel about drugs, given Laurel was acting in loco parentis for Thea when Thea was convicted. And Team Speedy might be the only people in town who might believe Laurel. I realize Laurel might not reach out to them because she doesn't want to get "the kids" in trouble, but again, this started because she was investigating what happened to Max for them.

- I really hope Sin gets Roy to tell Thea or tells Thea herself about Roy.

- "... when you tortured people FOR SCIENCE!" is my new favorite terrible dialogue from this show. There were also some other terrible clunkers despite this being a decent episode, such as Laurel naming the case number before identifying the file. I feel sorry for KC and others for being handed such crap to try and deliver believably.

- So glad after all the kidnapping nonsense to see Laurel save the day by shooting the bad guy. Although everyone seems to be ignoring/glossing over/handwaving away the fact that Laurel just killed somebody. I mean lots and lots of bullets killed somebody--in a show where they generally tend to make a big deal of what it's like to kill for your first time. Ollie didn't even seem surprised.

- I am looking more and more forward to Blood getting his ass kicked at some point--and also to more Slade.

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I had not known that bit of stupidity about Rose. (alwayshad a soft spot for her. Read the last Teen Titans issue before the reboot and tell me you don't want to root for her.)


DeathQuaker wrote:

Action is definitely amping up. I think this was a strong episode although I feel like a few things were left out. I'm also wondering what Moira and Isabel are up to and hope we get a chance to catch up with both of them at some point (but I can also understand not including them).

Spoileriffic thoughts:

** spoiler omitted **...

Concerning Oliver and Sebastian Blood: since Oliver kinda agreed with him why would Oliver hold a grudge? If anything Oliver has been trying to impress the guy since day 1. That's why he's been reluctant to believe Laural's story and was relieved when Sebastian wasn't under the mask.

Concerning the shooting: Laurel's boss specifically said that they knew it was in "self defense" so no charges would be pressed.

I loved the episode overall but the scene when the swat guy came in guns blazing was a little over the top. I hope the guy gets reprimanded for all the city files he destroyed.

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Backfromthedeadguy wrote:
I loved the episode overall but the scene when the swat guy came in guns blazing was a little over the top. I hope the guy gets reprimanded for all the city files he destroyed.

I know, right, isn't there some sort of rule about not pulling the trigger unless you have a target?

He's all Cyril Figus there, "Suppressing fire!!!!" <bullets fly in random directions, endangering everyone *but* the bad-guys...>


[NCO]Actually suppressing fire is kind of exactly that...firing innaccurate shots in the general direction of the enemy to keep the enemy behind cover and not firing back so that the other members of your squad can move into better position to put accurate fires on your target.[/NCO]

But, I havnet seen the scene (the episode is in my queue to watch this weekend) but firing suppressing fire into a room of hostages/non-combatants is generally agianst Rules of Engagement (which is what it sounds like is happening)

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Actually, The SWAT team does not know that Laurel is in the room. One of the officers catches a glimpse of The Arrow dodging behind a rack of files and opens fire, which starts everybody else.

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Backfromthedeadguy wrote:


Concerning the shooting: Laurel's boss specifically said that they knew it was in "self defense" so no charges would be pressed.

That's not what I mean. What I am getting at is that the show as frequently made reference to how the act of killing affects the human psyche--even when justified, even for survival and/or self defense, the act of killing is its own form of trauma (despite all the horrors we see on the news, psychological studies have shown that most people have an innate aversion to killing, which usually needs to be actively trained away in soldiers and certain kinds of agents and enforcement officers; ergo when a normal person finds themselves forced to kill, it is a traumatic experience for them). There's a big deal made of Ollie's first kill, and Ollie in particular seems reluctant to let others fight who aren't already seasoned warriors because he doesn't want to see them go down that road. But he almost seems to shrug off the fact that Laurel killed someone--again, yes, justified, self-defense, non-chargable, but the issue isn't why she did, it's that she did, and that has emotional consequences.

I wonder if they are going to handwave that away as they seemed to this episode, or if this is something she's also going to struggle coping with as we see her spiral downwards in the next episode or so.

Ruick wrote:

[NCO]Actually suppressing fire is kind of exactly that...firing innaccurate shots in the general direction of the enemy to keep the enemy behind cover and not firing back so that the other members of your squad can move into better position to put accurate fires on your target.[/NCO]

But, I havnet seen the scene (the episode is in my queue to watch this weekend) but firing suppressing fire into a room of hostages/non-combatants is generally agianst Rules of Engagement (which is what it sounds like is happening)

To me, the ridiculousness of the scene was that what appeared to be a SWAT team reacted--within a ridiculously quick amount of time--to a security guard's emergency call that their cameras weren't working at the local city archives, and that they spotted someone who may or may not have been the vigilante (given they only glimpsed him for a second). A team of heavily armed and armored officers charged to engage a single person invading a file room, and, though no hostile action had been taken at them that I can recall, began spraying burst fire--through a shelf-crowded room full of paper--at one the intruder with little warning.

If we had half that kind of police reaction to shootings and drug trade in East Baltimore, the city wouldn't have a crime problem. Possibly a guerrilla war in the ghetto, but not a crime problem. But that's what Starling City gets when it looks like some old paper files might be stolen.


deathquaker wrote:
or if this is something she's also going to struggle coping with as we see her spiral downwards in the next episode or so.

I would not be surprised if the next episode or the one after didnt have a scene where Laurel has a bad dream involving the killing followed by her waking up startled. If nothing else just o show that she was affected.

Also you are most likely right about the scene, I haven't seen it yet, I was just pointing out that spraying bullets is sometimes tactically viable.

EDIT-edited due to poor wording.


Ruick wrote:
deathquaker wrote:
or if this is something she's also going to struggle coping with as we see her spiral downwards in the next episode or so.

I would not be surprised if the next episode or the one after didnt have a scene where Laurel has a bad dream involving the killing followed by her waking up startled. If nothing else just o show that she was affected.

Also you are most likely right about the scene, I haven't seen it yet, I was just pointing out that spraying bullets is sometimes tactically viable.

EDIT-edited due to poor wording.

If the killing was 100% justified why feel bad about it? Killing a psycho trying to kill you and your friends would be empowering. I would get annoyed if they found yet another excuse for Laurel to "break down". She's supposed to be Black Canary material so I want to see backbone, not tears.

In contrast Roy Harper's reaction to putting that guy in the hospital was realistic. I believe his reaction was due mostly to losing control and almost hurting Sin. Feeling overly guilty for putting a serial killer in the hospital is ridiculous.

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Killing should never be empowering. No matter what for it is done, it's still taking a life.


Hama wrote:
Killing should never be empowering. No matter what for it is done, it's still taking a life.

That's just being self righteous. Some dude in a leather mask (or anyone) tries to murder me, my friends or my family I wouldn't waste a tear on them. Their life would mean zero to me.


Backfromthedeadguy wrote:
Hama wrote:
Killing should never be empowering. No matter what for it is done, it's still taking a life.
That's just being self righteous. Some dude in a leather mask (or anyone) tries to murder me, my friends or my family I wouldn't waste a tear on them. Their life would mean zero to me.

Easy to say on a message board. You might feel differently if you actually had to do it.


GentleGiant wrote:
Backfromthedeadguy wrote:
Hama wrote:
Killing should never be empowering. No matter what for it is done, it's still taking a life.
That's just being self righteous. Some dude in a leather mask (or anyone) tries to murder me, my friends or my family I wouldn't waste a tear on them. Their life would mean zero to me.
Easy to say on a message board. You might feel differently if you actually had to do it.

I'm no advocate of violence but I know 100% that I wouldn't feel bad about it. Besides, my whole adult life has either been in the military or doing some kind of security work, and though I've never killed anyone I have had guns drawn on me. My simple philosophy is to never start trouble but if someone tries to victimize you they deserve whatever you have to dish out. I save my sympathies for the victims not the victimizers.

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Oh, don't get me wrong, someone threatens my life, or the life of someone close to me, and I will put them down in a second. I will feel terrible about it though.


Hama wrote:
Oh, don't get me wrong, someone threatens my life, or the life of someone close to me, and I will put them down in a second. I will feel terrible about it though.

I believe they make cops go through therapy whenever they have to put someone down. I would talk to someone as well just to vent. Though any emotions still wouldn't be sadness.

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Backfromthedeadguy wrote:
Ruick wrote:
deathquaker wrote:
or if this is something she's also going to struggle coping with as we see her spiral downwards in the next episode or so.

I would not be surprised if the next episode or the one after didnt have a scene where Laurel has a bad dream involving the killing followed by her waking up startled. If nothing else just o show that she was affected.

Also you are most likely right about the scene, I haven't seen it yet, I was just pointing out that spraying bullets is sometimes tactically viable.

EDIT-edited due to poor wording.

If the killing was 100% justified why feel bad about it? Killing a psycho trying to kill you and your friends would be empowering. I would get annoyed if they found yet another excuse for Laurel to "break down". She's supposed to be Black Canary material so I want to see backbone, not tears.

In contrast Roy Harper's reaction to putting that guy in the hospital was realistic. I believe his reaction was due mostly to losing control and almost hurting Sin. Feeling overly guilty for putting a serial killer in the hospital is ridiculous.

Because again, it is about the brain's wiring--there are psychological studies that show that most people want to avoid killing another person, even when most would see it as justifiable. (here is one example; I suggest Googling if you want more examples.)

Therefore when the killing act happens, your brain breaks a little. It takes awhile to recover. People who DON'T have that reaction are usually psychopaths. Military and enforcement officers receive training to fight that aversion, but they often still have to deal with the results (as you yourself note that's why cops enter therapy after having to kill someone).

It doesn't matter how illogical it may seem, your psyche gets damaged when you kill another human being. The brain is, in fact, often very illogical. :) I'm just reporting the facts as I know them. If you wish to argue it, take it up with a psychologist or neuroscientist.

Now how about that episode of Arrow? I was just commenting on something I'd hope they'd follow up on, I'd personally see people's reactions than be responsible for an unintended derail based on a a comment expressing my opinion about what I'd like to personally see come up on the show.


Well, judging from the preview things are going to get very interesting next episode.

Spoiler:
Bronze Tiger is back, released by Amanda Waller, and we might see the start of or the continuation of the Suicide Squad being built.
Oliver will train Roy and it looks like he'll reveal himself to him too. So there's the real start of Red Arrow/Arsenal.

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Spoiler:
Ooh, thanks for that, I'd seen some previews but not the one including Bronze Tiger.

I am really interested in seeing what they're doing with ARGUS and Waller and this potential Suicide Squad--especially as apparently Diggle has some connection with Waller/ARGUS.

Diggle also apparently worked with the Blackhawks -- this is mentioned in last year's tie-in comic and of course there was an episode where one of his past buddies ran a "Blackhawk"-labeled agency, so I hope to see more of them too. Especially one particular Lady.

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I wanna see Solomon Grundy.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Hama wrote:
I wanna see Solomon Grundy.

He was in the "Three Ghosts" episode.


Hama wrote:
I wanna see Solomon Grundy.

They keep mentioning him in the Brother Blood flashbacks so I'd say there's a good chance that he'll show up again.

Episode 12 extended trailer

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DeathQuaker wrote:
Hama wrote:
I wanna see Solomon Grundy.
He was in the "Three Ghosts" episode.

I mean as Solomon Grundy. A zombie who doesn't remember anything but that nursery rime.

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Hama wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
Hama wrote:
I wanna see Solomon Grundy.
He was in the "Three Ghosts" episode.
I mean as Solomon Grundy. A zombie who doesn't remember anything but that nursery rime.

With the acid damaging his face in the last episode he was in, making him look appropriately more zombie-like, I think we're on our way there. Everyone thinks he's dead but I'm fairly certain he's not. I agree with Gentle Giant--they keep mentioning him too often for him to be dead. Actually dead characters tend to get forgotten on TV.


Well don't forget, Slade died for a little bit after the injection, so I think it stands to reason the acid to the face and electrocution aren't quite enough to kill him.


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Hear that sound?

That's the sound of the last shred of Laurel's likeability being flushed down the toilet.

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Starting with her looking like she is not eating at all...at least other characters are likable. Roy is annoying but hey, he's cool now.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Interesting episode. Liked it except for one thing....

WHY oh WHY are they wasting Alex Kingston's talents and Dinah Drake Lance's name on this useless simpering victim plot device TV mom? What the ever loving hell????

Other thoughts (spoilers):

Spoiler:

Nyssa was fascinating. Loved the actress. I liked that she was a sympathetic psycho b+*$+. And badass as hell.

Speaking of psycho b%+!&es... I actually feel sorry for Laurel, a little. DON'T TAKE THIS AS A DEFENSE OF HER ACTIONS. I am not defending her. Girl needs several quick shots of reality to the face, and stat. But I also try to see things from the character's point of view, and this is what I see: Girl has been nearly killed, kidnapped, invaded all too often. Most people check on her once to see if she's okay, but then leave her alone. Lance tries but he will still quickly ditch her for a phone call from work. She seeks solace in drugs and alcohol in lieu of friends and family. This makes her jumpy, paranoid, and even more isolated (addicts tend to go out of their way to isolate themselves, including behaving terribly to people they care about). Friends of hers turn her onto the fact that another friend of hers seems shady, and she starts to suspect him of terrible things. She's actually right, but her other behaviors have destroyed her credibility. Whole thing makes her more jumpy, paranoid, isolated. She's forced to kill a man, which nobody checks in on her about even though that in itself is traumatic. Dad tries to trick her into going to an AA meeting which is the most moronic thing you can do--those don't work unless the addict wants to go, which is something Lance himself should know. (What's scary is the writers are very good at writing how addicts behave but suck at writing anything to do with recovery, which may be darkly telling.) Plus I think Laurel was really looking forward to personal time with dad--where maybe she would have opened up--an instead was made to feel fooled and betrayed. She goes on a bender. Gets poisoned hallucinates Sara. Mom comes to see her. Then disappears. Dad almost tells her what's going on, but then ditches her and basically tells her to literally and figuratively stay in the dark, alone. She follows. In the end what she sees is Dad and Mom doting over Sara--and at this point she is the only one who didn't know Sara was alive. She feels left out, betrayed, again made to feel a fool. She lashes out at the easiest target, Sara.

Again, this is not to defend Laurel's actions-she massively needs to learn to take responsibility for her own issues--its just to draw out the line of where she's going. I understand why she's acting the way she's acting. And I look forward to seeing her either slowly crawl out from the bottom and come to grips with things, or just go totally psycho b$%~% evil. Either would be entertaining. if she can't be the Black Canary, why not the White Canary?

Also on b+&&*es: Moira for evil overlord of Starling City. Helllsssss yessss. I love Felicity but I still loved Moira's smooth smack down of her more. F%*& Slade, forget Merlyn, who al Ghul? Fyers, Rochev, Ivo, whatever. Moira Queen is THE best villain on this show hands down and I love her and I want to be her minion.

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Moira a villain? Really.

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Spoiler:
I used an oversimplified term but yes, a villain. she is not a protagonist. And she is not nice. Forced or not, she was on the bad guys' side before. And she is clearly not above dark and dangerous things. Forget bribes, she's the kind of person who can get Ra's al Ghul on the phone. (eta: autocorrect, stop trying to "fix" that name!)

And in this past episode she threatened probably the very most morally upright character on this show, enough that Felicity felt her family was in danger. All because Felicity felt ethically compelled to come clean with what she had learned. That's villainy right there .

Moira may have justifications for what she does. She has people she loves and protects them. The best villains do. No I don't think Moira is going to sit in her chair and twirl her moustache and try to take over the world. Her villainy is subtle and nuanced and always a little defendable. That's why she is such a beautifully amazing character.

If replying in detail, please reply in a spoiler out of respect for other readers.

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Ok, and officially, after watching episode 13, Laurel has lost the last shred of any kind of relatability to her. Now I just wish she goes away and ODs on something.

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