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Ruick wrote:
I say let Marvel have the box office and take over TV. its already happening The Avengers was awesome but agents of shield is sub par. We couldhave a diffrent DC show for every night of the week...

Heck yeah!

Particularly if they pick characters like Green Arrow who are kind of 'second-tier.' Not being one of the 'big seven' Leaguers, whoever they are this week (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern and some combination of Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, Aquaman and Black Canary, depending on who you ask...), there's more 'room to play' with Green Arrow, or other 'lesser lights' of the League, such as the Atom or Firestorm or the Phantom Stranger... (Or non-Leaguers, like Nightwing or Birds of Prey / Secret Six / Suicide Squad / Teen Titans / Young Justice / etc. peeps.)

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Gods.. A Secret six TV show. That would definitely be HBO/STARS/Showtime material. :-)

Even though I'm much older than my choice would indicate, my big seven will always be Batman (Bruce) Superman (Kal-el), Wonder Woman (Dianna) Flash (Wally, Damnit!) Green Lantern (John) Hawkgirl (Shayera) and Martian Manhunter (J'onn).

Though if they could make a fixed origin for Donna, give me a team of Dick, Vic, Gar, Raven, Kory and Donna any day (Roy and Garth optional). (And a kid team of Tim, Kon, Cassie, Bart M'gann, Virgil and Rose, please)


Perhaps they can use the current Justice League of America line up (which green arrow is a part of). that way we can leave the "A listers" like bats and superman for the box office.

Well lets see heres my sample show schedule
Mon: Katana
Tues: martian manhunter
Wed: Arrow
Thurs: Catwoman
Fri: hawkman
Sat: Green lantern (Simon) or Atom either or...
And finally for the primo sunday time slot a JLA show with the stars from the other series...

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Just curious. why Simon? I know of the character, but nothing about him. Thanks to the DCAU, John's my 'go to' Green Lantern.


Just because, if I'm not mistaken, Simon is the current green lantern in the JLA so it fits the theme.

After thinking a bit more I think Young Justice would fit the WBs style a bit better though.


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Sorry, but it will always be Hal and Barry for this codger...


In the new 52 the Justice League and the Justice League of America are seperate and Hal Jordan is the Green Lantern for the JL (and Barry is the Flash as well)

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QXL99 wrote:
Sorry, but it will always be Hal and Barry for this codger...

Levels of codger-ness may vary. Barry died the same year I graduated high school, when Wham's Careless Whisper was number one on the Hit Parade. He's been dead for most of my adult life, and I miss him about as much as the aforementioned song. (Actually, thanks to prom, I have fonder recollections of the song...)

Wally, Kyle and John have been 'my' Flash and Green Lantern(s) for a decent chunk of my life.

That said, I'm also an old-school JSA fan, and there's a cool poster I saw once of a grumpy Alan Scott muttering, "Original Green Lantern? Hal Jordan can kiss my ***."

If I ever had been a huge fan of Barry or Hal, I'd probably *hate* the new interpretations of them (with Barry being a huge joke that the rest of the League openly mocks to his face, and Hal being a colossal jerk that single-handedly wrecked the Leagues PR by picking fights with his teammates in public). I'm not a huge fan of resurrections, but even less when they seem to have been staged solely to assassinate the character of the one-time *heroes* they dug up...

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Ruick wrote:

Perhaps they can use the current Justice League of America line up (which green arrow is a part of). that way we can leave the "A listers" like bats and superman for the box office.

Well lets see heres my sample show schedule
Mon: Katana
Tues: martian manhunter
Wed: Arrow
Thurs: Catwoman
Fri: hawkman
Sat: Green lantern (Simon) or Atom either or...
And finally for the primo sunday time slot a JLA show with the stars from the other series...

I have yet to see feathery wings, either SFX or CGI, that didn't look terrible, so I'd be leery of a Hawkman/woman/girl show. Even with gold-plated super-tankers full of money to burn, the eagles wings in the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings looked a little dubious, and the less said about the Hawkman wings on Smallville, the better. On the other hand, the character is probably one ripe for TV development, as the origin for the Hawks is such a muddle that you could probably do anything with it, without worrying about canon. :) Alien space cops? Star crossed Egyptian lovers, endlessly reincarnating? Either could be cool (the second sounds way more WB, 'though, and could include a ton of Highlander: the Series style flashbacks of adventures of the Hawks throughout the last 3000 years).

Katana could be interesting, particularly if the spirit in the blade is a character in its own right (played by an actor whose character may never be visible to anyone not holding the sword). Even as a solitary hero, she'd have someone 'in on her secret' to converse with, and things could get funky if the spirit in the sword doesn't always (or ever...) share her specific agenda, and there are occasional battles of wills, or times when the sword can exert its will, either on her when she's injured or asleep or impaired somehow, or on some other weaker-willed person who gets their hands on it.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Tangentially, but I feel like if you're going to decide to farm out a superhero title to more than one character, you (by which I mean comic book developers) don't then get crazy about upholding the "One True" (Insert Superhero Title Here). And if you're worrying about pissing off a fanbase by killing someone off and replacing them, then don't do it to start with--or at least give the new character a new title that isn't the old one. Otherwise, accept that the title is a shared one, that people ARE going to have their favorites, but leave room for everyone to exist in the universe peaceably. (*wishful thinking, but one thing I have REALLY started to tire of in comic geekdom is people arguing over who is the One True (Insert Superhero Title Here)*)

And yes, I feel sorry for Alan Scott, no one ever seems to remember him.

Also, to conclude, the One True Huntress is Helena Bertinelli, not Helena Wayne. *sticks out tongue* (Yes, even though Wayne was my first.)

But all of the chat going on here is all the more why I like the idea of a TV verse y'all are talking about, where slates are far more cleanly wiped clean.

Spoiler:

Waiting for fights in the Arrow fandom about who is the better Black Canary, Sara or Laurel.

The Exchange

Set wrote:


If I ever had been a huge fan of Barry or Hal, I'd probably *hate* the new interpretations of them (with Barry being a huge joke that the rest of the League openly mocks to his face, and Hal being a colossal jerk that single-handedly wrecked the Leagues PR by picking fights with his teammates in public). I'm not a huge fan of resurrections, but even less when they seem to have been staged solely to assassinate the character of the one-time *heroes* they dug up...

Thats a bit unfair on the resurrections since they occured a long time before Nu52 (Felt they were somewhat uneeded myself since I'm a Wally, Kyle generation type myself, dislike Hal generally but Barry has a soft spot in my heart from the original TV show.)


You young whipper-snappers!

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Ok, last night was... interesting. We got more story of Ollie on the SS Amazo, Black Canary's back story, some nice interaction with Roy...

The ending though caught me flat footed, in part because I thought through out the episode it was just a mythology gag (they had a lot this episode).

Spoiler:
Bad Guy of the week sitting in a chair, realizes he's not in the police station. Guy in a vaugely Bane-like mask, doing the Bane-voice from DKR comes in lectures him about needing soldiers if they're strong enough and has him injected with something. I'm thinking "Crap, it's venom, and a DKR spin off."

The BGotW dies. Bad guy takes off his mask and does the "This one is broken, get me another," establishment of evil credentials. I start to hope. Then flunky clenches it.

"Yes, Brother Blood."

Holy crap! Brother Blood! My inner 80's Titans fan jumps for joy.

Now if only they'd named the guy 'Jason' as a bigger red herring.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I enjoyed this one.

Reactions and Speculation:

Spoiler:

I am glad we got to see Sara's story and not have it drawn out too long. Obviously there is more to be revealed--Ollie doesn't know about the League of Assassins or her part in it, and I still want to know if Sara knew Malcolm.

I do wish they had dragged out Laurel's descent a little longer. I can understand the events of last week especially triggering her need to escape, but she kind of went zero to alcoholic in the space of a few minutes, in a sense. But obviously they are setting stuff up for more of the Lance family. I also hope Sara's return means we are going to see Dinah again at some point--her prior appearance was a waste of Alex Kingston.

I am not sure why Roy feels so responsible for Sin, especially as he barely knows her and she hasn't been especially nice to him. Him saving her I get--that's part of his own desire to be helpful but him watching over her with the degree of emotional investment he is showing seems strange. I am glad however that Thea is supportive and not jealous, which is where they could easily take it and that is so cliched. I like the idea of Roy and Thea being their own dynamic duo and I am kind of hoping she, per her partial namesake (in both terms of "Speedy," a first name that rhymes with "Mia" and a middle name of Dearden), learns to fight alongside Roy, or at least begin to play more of a role than as largely messenger. Of course both "Speedy" and "Red Arrow" are being mostly errand-runners at this point, and I'm sure it'll take time for their stories to further develop.

Also speaking of Thea, it would be really cool if it was Thea who ended up reaching Laurel. Besides Daddy Lance, Thea is the one with the most experience with substance abuse, and the one least likely to throw Laurel irritating platitudes about it but have a much better (in, I think, Laurel's case) "get real" attitude about addressing the issue. Thea and Laurel seemed to show a budding friendship in season 1, however rarely visited, and it would be a cool turnaround if rather than Laurel serving "in loco parentis" to Thea as in season 1, to have Thea be the one looking out for her (however less officially). Sadly I am not sure if that will be the case, as they seem to be wrapping Laurel's story tightly around the Lances and Ollie and I am not sure if there's room for Thea to get involved. Still Thea now has a connection to Sin who has a connection to Sara, let alone her past friendship with Laurel, so maybe.

I am not deeply familiar with Brother Blood (haven't read Teen Titans since I was about 7 years old and then only briefly--I have never really dug teen heroes as a child or as an adult) but his secret identity had been spoiled for me. I am intrigued as to where this will go, especially now as Sebastian purportedly seems to trust Ollie--although maybe this will mean he will try to recruit Ollie as test subject? Probably not but interesting.

I'm actually interested to see more of Ollie CEO-ing and dealing with Isabel Rochev. I was rewatching Season 1 and I noticed something.... her name is on The List. If I recall correctly, Ollie memorized the list so does he know this and just has not said something, or has he (or the writers, even) forgotten? I also wonder if, like in the comics, she will turn out to be his half-sister (IIRC she is daughter of Robert Queen in the comics, and the show has mentioned Robert slept around). Ollie also needs to work out better contingencies so he isn't always late to his own gigs. It's also getting to be a stupid coincidence that every time he needs to show up at an event, that is the exact moment something bad is going down in the Glades. Does every criminal time their actions to when the next charity ball is? A few times is an acceptable coincidence, but now it's just getting dumb.


Spoiler:
Liked the episode especially the ending...also noticed a bit of foreshadowing with the mention of the star labs partical accelerator.

I had almost the same thoughts as you Matthew...only mine went more like this..."ohh its scarecrow...no hes got venom...banes crew maybe...AHH I new he was too good to be true!" *runs to google "brother blood"* (I'm pretty new to the DC universe...started with the new 52)

And DQ I had pretty much the same reactions to the scenes that you did as well. As usual I like the speculation and the DCU education you provide lol.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Who knows, maybe Thea and Roy will have a little Liam...

Spoiler:
I assume that Blood will tie in with the Amazo, maybe they started working on the proto-venom (metagene activating?) stuff there. If Sara has 'super soldier serum' in her veins, that would be an interesting twist. She's not back to keep an eye on her sister, she's back because she needs X from her sister to save her life.

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Matthew Morris wrote:
Who knows, maybe Thea and Roy will have a little Liam...

I think if they ever go there (that is, to bringing in Lian Harper), they're going to bring in Cheshire.

Who actually would be a phenomenal villain for the Arrowverse anyway, since they already deal a lot of with special poisons and pharmaceuticals.


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Ruick wrote:
I'm pretty new to the DC universe...started with the new 52.

IMHO, if you started with the New 52 you have never seen the DC Universe. But then, I'm a crotchety old guy who still thinks of Kyle Rayner as an upstart new kid, and not the "real" Green Lantern. :)

(I'll save you the Google: Rayner first appeared in 1994.)

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Wednesday's Episode!

This season is continuing to be strong. And this brings out the potential of a lot of long term villainous players. At this point is my main concern is between Isabel Rochev, Brother Blood, and the League of Assassins, are they going to spread themselves too thin with antagonistic storylines? Probably no, and I hope the League is a longer term thing while we move to focus on Isabel and Brother Blood for awhile.

Really cool to see more of the Canary's story as well.

Further spoilery thoughts:

Spoiler:

I am GLAD Sara revealed herself to Daddy Lance, and they both performed the reunion very well.

I am more ambivalent about Laurel continuing to be left out of the loop. My increasing opinion is coming to be that, even with her current PTSD storyline, her growth and development is going to stutter and stagnate until she comes into the know about a bunch of things related to Sara, Ollie, and the city's underworld. On the other hand, of course I can understand Sara's (and Quentin's) reasons for not wanting to include her. Also, reading some old recaps reminded me of something I had completely forgotten about---when Laurel was trying to prove that the "girl in the hat" Dinah found was not in fact Sara, she actually got a call suggesting that there WAS a chance that Sara was alive. Laurel never told her parents so as not to reopen old wounds. I hope they have not forgotten like I have and actually DO something with this, maybe causing Laurel, in her desperation, to pick up the dropped lead and find Sara on her own, for example.

And "not telling mom" seems to be a recipe for disaster as well. This, of course, may be intentional. But Dinah is away in Central City, far from Sara, Laurel, and Quentin, and that makes her an OBVIOUS target for the League, where no one can get to rescue her in time (and it would suck if they just killed her off, even if what little we've seen of her was largely a waste of both the character and the actress). Of course, if Dinah Lance Sr. lives up to her own namesake, perhaps she'll prove more of a match for the assassins than anybody expects.

(Especially since in the Arrowverse, Dinah is really River Song. ;) )

On the other hand, the worst case scenario is that the issue of "what might the assassins do to Dinah?" is handwaved away, and I really don't want them to just assume she's safe, ignorant, a thousand miles away. Especially since her storyline seemed so unfinished last time she showed up.

Anyway, even though Sara has left, I doubt her story is done. After all, we're obviously going to see more of what's happened to her in the flashbacks, and I'm sure it doesn't end there. So I should probably leave both my anticipation and dread on simmer and wait to see what happens.

Other stuff--I liked what little interaction Felicity and Sara had and it made me realize that outside of Thea and Moira, we see most of the female characters in the series interact very little with each other. This season, only Sara and Sin in brief scenes, and VERY briefly Sin and Thea. Last season, Laurel and Thea had some stuff that seems to have been left aside, despite an apparent friendship. Laurel talked to her mom, but even there it was a lot more about Dinah and Quentin than Dinah and Laurel, which seems an egregious oversight. This is entirely just me, but I'd like to see some more friendships and family relationships explored between the female characters--there's plenty of bromance to go around, but what about sisterhood?

Speaking of Sin, how come we didn't see her this episode? Does she know what happened to Sara? Is SHE safe from the League? Her namesake after all was a young League trainee...

I am also expecting that with all the references to Malcom this season we are going to see or learn more of him...

Next episode we meet a woman who is Amanda Waller in name only (boo, you should have cast CCH Pounder) and Deadshot is back (yay).


I hope they don't kill Deadshot, but Diggle does need some kind of resolution. Maybe Deadshot will get sent to a super-max prison? Or since they're introducing Waller maybe we'll see the first recruit for the Suicide Squad.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Agree on the CCH Pounder.

Re: DEadshot. Since it seems they're plucking from all over (Deadshot was a batman villian, Brother Blood from the Teen Titans...) I'd love to see Thomas Blake make an appearance.

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Backfromthedeadguy wrote:
I hope they don't kill Deadshot, but Diggle does need some kind of resolution. Maybe Deadshot will get sent to a super-max prison? Or since they're introducing Waller maybe we'll see the first recruit for the Suicide Squad.

Based on promo pics they've put out, I think your second guess has some merit. Which would be really cool.

Matthew Morris wrote:
Re: DEadshot. Since it seems they're plucking from all over (Deadshot was a batman villian, Brother Blood from the Teen Titans...) I'd love to see Thomas Blake make an appearance.

I can think of nearly all of the Secret Six being awesome in the Arrowverse, and fairly easy to come up with how they might come to be. IIRC a lot of what they have in common are some fairly crazy family relationships (and in particular daddy issues) that would feed well into character themes in the series. I agree Catman would be a particularly good choice for a number of reasons.


Matthew Morris wrote:

Agree on the CCH Pounder.

Re: DEadshot. Since it seems they're plucking from all over (Deadshot was a batman villian, Brother Blood from the Teen Titans...) I'd love to see Thomas Blake make an appearance.

I never really got that whole "rogues gallery" thing. Sure a villain might make a first appearance in a certain tittle, but that doesn't mean that's the only guy that they'll tangle with. For example, we associate Sabretooth with Wolverine, but his first appearance was in Captain America. And Mystique's 1st appearance was in Captain Marvel. And guys like Lex Luthor, Darkseid and Doctor Doom have fought everyone in their respective U's at one time or another. To me it makes it a more realistic world without the concept of villains and heroes being joined at the hip.

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I'm with you on that, backfromthedeadguy. I'll allow exceptions for archnemeses.... Joker is primarily Batman's enemy, Merlyn is Green Arrow's, but I think otherwise you do not need to super glue shared universe characters to a certain hero.

I don't remember where I first saw Dead shot, but it was nowhere near Batman, so I always suffer a disconnect when people call him a "Batman character."


Finally got caught up (I'd DVR'd but hadn't watched all 5 episodes so far).

Second season is pretty great so far, better than the first I think.

Laurel gets on my nerves a little bit, the writers have made her a bit too flip-floppy and seem to want to "balance" her character by pairing every smart or sympathetic action she takes with an immediate stupid or "b$*!* moment" one, but she's tolerable.

I like Thea's development so far.

Spoiler:
Sarah/Canary is a solid character too. Looking forward to seeing her more in the flashbacks.

Also interested to see where they're going to take all these superpower adjacent things like the Venom looking serum Blood was testing and Ivo.


I recently caught up on season 2 after devouring season 1 via netflix. Overall I really liked season 1, and I like season 2 much less.

Spoiler:

They seem intent on driving the Green Arrow towards his comic norms - not killing, losing all his money, ect - which I think is to the determent of the series and the character. His character motivation in the show for no longer killing seemed extremely thin - and frankly implausible in the normal world (within which this seems to exist). While I'm ok with his company going under the commentary on his trust fund seemed a little ridiculous.

On a related note, I'm really tired of a complete lack of understanding of how trusts work, how police procedure works, and how the law as a whole functions administratively. It annoyed me in the first season with 'freezing / locking out / cleaning out' of Tommy's trust fund. It is getting beyond that here.

Back to my original point, a bow is an inherently lethal weapon. The use of it towards another end just strikes me as ridiculous.


Peter Stewart wrote:

I recently caught up on season 2 after devouring season 1 via netflix. Overall I really liked season 1, and I like season 2 much less.

** spoiler omitted **

Couldn't disagree with you more. The show just keeps getting better and better. And why wouldn't Tommy's death cause Oliver to evaluate and change his style? The guy was a brother to Oliver and one of the last things Tommy called him was a murderer. And as for the bow, he's demonstrated many times already (in the comics and the show) that it's a very effective non-lethal weapon. I for one am greatly enjoying the transformation from a killer vigilante to a true hero from the comics.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Peter, with the regards to the not killing, I agree with backfrom, his wanting to become something Tommy would have been proud of is a fine motivation. I also think that his goal isn't for a second going to mean he will just never ever ever kill. We've been shown he can hit a point where he just snaps. So for him it's about him constantly fighting part of himself, which makes for excellent character growth. And at some point if he does snap (IMO when) it means deeper emotional consequences, which is also good for storytelling.

As regards his money, I do not believe Oliver is out of money. He is clearly able to bankroll his own operations. Very notably, Isabel assumes he has no money, because she assumes all of his assets were lost or tied up in the company's problems or squandered. Oliver simply lets her believe it, because it's useful for him to have her underestimate him. I think the show shows he has plenty of capital, likely not only whatever he can draw from his trust, but likely investments he's made on his own and money earned via his Bratva connections, etc.

So I'd suggest giving a little more benefit of the doubt on both counts.

Rynjin, I think your criticism is fair. And I agree, the Arrowverse seems full of pseudoscience experiments that are going to result in some interesting stuff.

The Exchange

I like the little background news stories on the Particle Accelerator,

Grand Lodge

I haven't watched the last ep but when the Black Canary (or whoever the mysterious arse whomping woman is in the Glades) turned out to be the dead sister who more or less has been hanging over his head for all of season 1... AND he knew it... for me, that was a 'Jump the Shark' moment.

Grand Lodge

I'm guessing the particle accelerator will tie directly into the Barry Allen intro.

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Helaman wrote:
I haven't watched the last ep but when the Black Canary (or whoever the mysterious arse whomping woman is in the Glades) turned out to be the dead sister who more or less has been hanging over his head for all of season 1... AND he knew it... for me, that was a 'Jump the Shark' moment.

I am not sure what you mean. He didn't know it was Sara until she took off the mask. As was clearly revealed in a subsequent dialogue with Diggle and Felicity, he said he had SEEN her after the wreck, but really truly believed she was dead. He had no idea Sara was alive let alone in town until she revealed herself to him.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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I like this show, but I am officially tired of every other plot being "rescue the damsel."

Please give the women something to do other than be objects to be rescued, and please give the men feelings and motivations other than "girl mine, save girl."

Dark Archive

DeathQuaker wrote:

I like this show, but I am officially tired of every other plot being "rescue the damsel."

Please give the women something to do other than be objects to be rescued, and please give the men feelings and motivations other than "girl mine, save girl."

I've also noticed that. I wouldn't mind so much if it was Thea or Moira or Felicity or Laurel, but when Shado or Sara or otherwise butt-kicking non-damsel-y ladies need to be rescued (like the military / agent woman from this last one), it gets annoying.

Shado, recently, having to be rescued by Ollie, just annoyed me, because even after his toughening up, she still seems to be above his level, and the one who should be rescuing him.

Then again, Roy and (last season) Tommy seem to have been 'the damsel' a fair bit of the time as well (so much so that Tommy even got to play the traditional female role of being the one who dies to set the hero on a new course, so that their characters death is reduced to 'how did it affect the main characters arc?'). :)

Still, regardless of gender. Too many damsels. I don't care if it's Tommy or Laurel or Shado or Willow and Xander, I don't really like anyone bumbling into danger and needing to be rescued, as if 'hostage' is tattooed on their bum.

Silver Crusade

I really like this show and it's getting better every week, but I am sick of Deadshot and Vertigo popping up. Need to give them a break. I figured that Diggle's wife went to Russia to get Deadshot out and have him join Waller's new team Suicide Squad.


Danubus wrote:
I really like this show and it's getting better every week, but I am sick of Deadshot and Vertigo popping up. Need to give them a break. I figured that Diggle's wife went to Russia to get Deadshot out and have him join Waller's new team Suicide Squad.

I'd like to see more Deadshot. I would love to see a spin off Suicide Squad show with all the recurring villains from Arrow.


Shado's fighting skills took a heavy drop since she miraculously became not Chinese, it's the only explanation. =)

Well, after checking IMDB she seems to be the same actress but she looks distinctly less Asian this season for some reason.

Maybe it's that they're getting her face full on more often, I dunno.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I've really been digging this show. I binge-watched Season 1 in a week when it showed up in Netflix, and have been watching the current season on Hulu.

Re: Shado's appearance: I don't know for sure, but the actress who plays Shado may have had that cosmetic surgery that many Asian women get to make their eyes look less Asian.

Going back to something DQ said earlier, I've also been bothered by the general lack of interaction between the female characters. This show only barely passes the Bechdel test!
And the writers are definitely relying too heavily on the "rescue the dependent NPC trope.

Another minor beef is the Felicity character. I mostly like her, but she's playing the part of the character with lots of ranks in the SCIENCE! skill. (Which you have to pronounce in a louder voice while pointing up.)

Still, I'm having fun watching it

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Felicity going all Watchman on a bag guy would be funny with SCIENCE!

"See, you're holding my friends hostage in a cell that's computer controlled. All I have to do is type in some code and they're out."

"What makes you think I'll let you do that?"

"Let me do that? I did it 5 minutes ago."

As to Shadow, it might also be just make up. One thing I've always found facinating about Cheryl Burke (dancer from Dances with the Stars) is how her enthicity seems to be emphasized or de-emphasized by the style of make-up/hair she's wearing. (She's Filipino-Scottish, IIRC, and she can look more or less 'stereotypicaly asian' depending on various factors.)

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Set wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:

I like this show, but I am officially tired of every other plot being "rescue the damsel."

Please give the women something to do other than be objects to be rescued, and please give the men feelings and motivations other than "girl mine, save girl."

I've also noticed that. I wouldn't mind so much if it was Thea or Moira or Felicity or Laurel, but when Shado or Sara or otherwise butt-kicking non-damsel-y ladies need to be rescued (like the military / agent woman from this last one), it gets annoying.

Shado, recently, having to be rescued by Ollie, just annoyed me, because even after his toughening up, she still seems to be above his level, and the one who should be rescuing him.

Then again, Roy and (last season) Tommy seem to have been 'the damsel' a fair bit of the time as well (so much so that Tommy even got to play the traditional female role of being the one who dies to set the hero on a new course, so that their characters death is reduced to 'how did it affect the main characters arc?'). :)

Still, regardless of gender. Too many damsels. I don't care if it's Tommy or Laurel or Shado or Willow and Xander, I don't really like anyone bumbling into danger and needing to be rescued, as if 'hostage' is tattooed on their bum.

Yes. And while the damsel trope is in part annoying because it frequently has an effect of disempowering female characters and undermining their growth, it ultimately is irritating and potentially character-assassinating regardless of the gender of either hero or damsel. Same goes for the refrigerator syndrome. That Tommy was a guy instead of a girl doesn't make it much better that he died for Oliver's character development, just as Laurel was made inexplicably stubborn and foolish so she could be the damsel for Tommy to rescue before he died, and thus her character was assassinated to prop Tommy up. Both characters we're misused ( mind, I'm kind of glad Tommy died, and I think it helps the story, but they handled it very kludgily).

Compare other media/stories -- in Buffy, Tara Maclay deserved far more than being the first woman on TV tossed into the fridge for another woman. And Steve Trevor is officially the most boring character in comics because he has no purpose or personality save that of doting damsel.

Back to Arrow, all of Oliver's character development is external. He fights to avenge his father. He protects only those he cares about. Her reforms for Tommy's sake. Its not wrong for him to want to protect friends and family, but that's all there is to him. I cannot tell you what is important to Oliver that isn't connected to avenging, protecting, or proving himself to someone else. What are his hopes, what are his dreams? If he had sudden and total amnesia, but the same personality, would he fight and what personal values, dreams, and motivations would cause him to do so--or not? Without a person to react to, he seems to have no soul, no personal drive. Compare to comics Ollie, who I believe at least at some point had a strong, progressive sense of justice that was about fighting corruption to make the world a better place ( not to avenge daddy or do it because Digg and Felicity say it's right).

Beyond how useless and incompetent it makes characters like Laurel and Shado and Lyla look, the damsel plot is also just being used so so so much. The writers have thrown themselves in a rut and it's very frustrating because I am sure they could do better. At this point it's just lazy.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

DeathQuaker wrote:

Compare other media/stories -- in Buffy, Tara Maclay deserved far more than being the first woman on TV tossed into the fridge for another woman. And Steve Trevor is officially the most boring character in comics because he has no purpose or personality save that of doting damsel.

To Whedon's defense, he's said several times whether it be Oz or Tara or anyone else, whomever was dating Willow would die there.

THat said, I loved Tara, and enjoyed seeing a 'non-standard beauty' of Amber Benson playing a major role.

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Matthew Morris wrote:
THat said, I loved Tara, and enjoyed seeing a 'non-standard beauty' of Amber Benson playing a major role.

It was joked that the wardrobe department hated her.

They made a woman who could look like this, look like this.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

People are thinking too much into the supposed "damsel in distress" thing and people dieing. Seriously, at what point would it be safe for anyone to die in these shows without it automatically being branded such? The fact the Ollie is a superhero means that everyone close to him will somehow get caught up in his world (whether they know it or not) and get injured or killed because of it. So yeah, this type of thing should weigh heavily on our hero, and thus cause for character development. And Ollie has rescued men and woman, because--he's a HERO. He has to rescue SOMEBODY right? And the show is about him so it would make sense that he do most of the rescuing.

Liberty's Edge

Arrow was amazing again last night with a lot of surprises in the last minute of the show. Awesome times were had!

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Backfromthedeadguy wrote:
People are thinking too much into the supposed "damsel in distress" thing and people dieing. Seriously, at what point would it be safe for anyone to die in these shows without it automatically being branded such? The fact the Ollie is a superhero means that everyone close to him will somehow get caught up in his world (whether they know it or not) and get injured or killed because of it. So yeah, this type of thing should weigh heavily on our hero, and thus cause for character development. And Ollie has rescued men and woman, because--he's a HERO. He has to rescue SOMEBODY right? And the show is about him so it would make sense that he do most of the rescuing.

Since I am the one who was complaining about it most, I would appreciate it if you had the spine to refer to me by name rather than as "people."

The problem is nearly EVERY EPISODE (including last night's) has someone needing to be rescued. It's getting old and boring. It is a tired trope the writers are relying upon too much. There is more than one trope you can use to prove someone is a hero. That is not how heroism is defined. And I need a protagonist has an actual personality, other than AM HERO.

This episode at least had the twist that Ollie (in the flashbacks) was himself a damsel. But it's still getting old.

But I stand by my statement, that the show needs to address the following issue:

DeathQuaker wrote:
I cannot tell you what is important to Oliver that isn't connected to avenging, protecting, or proving himself to someone else. What are his hopes, what are his dreams? If he had sudden and total amnesia, but the same personality, would he fight and what personal values, dreams, and motivations would cause him to do so--or not? Without a person to react to, he seems to have no soul, no personal drive.

I think they need to work on that more.

Misery wrote:


Arrow was amazing again last night with a lot of surprises in the last minute of the show. Awesome times were had!

I have to say I nearly pissed myself at the end. I kind of expected it, but still, not exactly this way.

It was amazing how, as Laurel had a plotline that was largely nothing to do with Oliver, suddenly became a far more interesting, sympathetic character.

And the DA is "Miss Spencer." Hee.

I'm actually also finally kind of getting interested in the flashbacks. And I think we've seen a glimpse of what might happen to Slade.

I am starting to see the "Olicity" chemistry I've heard others talk about.

Next new episode in 2 weeks, can't wait.


Yeah, last night episode was pretty awesome (damsel in distrees trope not withstanding). Like DQ I expected all of the relevations at the end but figured at least the last one* would come later in the season or beginning of the next season.

*:
That Merlyn is alive and Thea's father

next episode:
Barry Allen!

Dark Archive

'Count Vertigo' veered from almost entertaining me this episode with his hamming it up to going over the top for me. Looks like Ollie will be facing his first superhuman-ish threats, if Brother Blood's 'strong' recruits are any indication.

And perhaps the first hints of Thea's 'Speedy' nickname being more than a shout out begin, with her starting to get her punch on.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Indeed. I actually kind of like the idea of "Speedy" and "Arsenal" sort of having their own little superhero team.


DeathQuaker wrote:
Backfromthedeadguy wrote:
People are thinking too much into the supposed "damsel in distress" thing and people dieing. Seriously, at what point would it be safe for anyone to die in these shows without it automatically being branded such? The fact the Ollie is a superhero means that everyone close to him will somehow get caught up in his world (whether they know it or not) and get injured or killed because of it. So yeah, this type of thing should weigh heavily on our hero, and thus cause for character development. And Ollie has rescued men and woman, because--he's a HERO. He has to rescue SOMEBODY right? And the show is about him so it would make sense that he do most of the rescuing.

Since I am the one who was complaining about it most, I would appreciate it if you had the spine to refer to me by name rather than as "people."

The problem is nearly EVERY EPISODE (including last night's) has someone needing to be rescued. It's getting old and boring. It is a tired trope the writers are relying upon too much. There is more than one trope you can use to prove someone is a hero. That is not how heroism is defined. And I need a protagonist has an actual personality, other than AM HERO.

This episode at least had the twist that Ollie (in the flashbacks) was himself a damsel. But it's still getting old.

But I stand by my statement, that the show needs to address the following issue:

DeathQuaker wrote:
I cannot tell you what is important to Oliver that isn't connected to avenging, protecting, or proving himself to someone else. What are his hopes, what are his dreams? If he had sudden and total amnesia, but the same personality, would he fight and what personal values, dreams, and motivations would cause him to do so--or not? Without a person to react to, he seems to have no soul, no personal drive.

I think they need to work on that more.

Misery wrote:


Arrow was amazing again last night with a lot of surprises in the last minute of the show. Awesome times
...

Sorry to wound your ego, but I wasn't even thinking of you when I wrote it. I was addressing a general view not you as an individual.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Backfromthedeadguy wrote:
Sorry to wound your ego, but I wasn't even thinking of you when I wrote it. I was addressing a general view not you as an individual.

My ego's just fine, but thanks for your concern. I brought it up here and it was only Set and I who were discussing it that I noticed (and if I did miss someone else, I apologize for excluding them); I haven't seen it talked about a lot elsewhere. If you've got links to this "general view" that's been commonly expressed, please share them as I'd be very interested to hear what other people have to say about the issue. Thanks. :)

On a hopefully less contentious issue, what did you think of this week's episode?

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