I'm going to need to go back and rewatch that episode, because I can barely remember the scene in question.
I'm *amazed* this isn't here yet.
I'm amazed that a 2 1/2 minutes clip surpasses the whole of series 7 so far (despite the cheesy music).
Watched it last night (got cable for Game of Thrones, so reaping other benefits.
Anyone bothered by:
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Well, just because someone is clever, that doesn't mean they are into computers. She is maybe just that person who has never been bothered to care about computers.
minor spoilers ahead:
1. By the end of the episode, she has become a computer genius, since the bad guys added an "IT skills pack" to her the first time they attempted to download her mind.
2. Victorian Clara obviously didn't exhibit any computer skills, which is quite understandable. Asylum Clara was originally said to be a hacker even beyond the Doctor's abilities, but if you think about it, this wasn't really the case. She didn't HACK the Dalek web, she merely ACCESSED it...she was, after all, a Dalek at the time.
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ok, so any idea what the hell is wrong with the time matrix and the theme??
I assume you're talking about the opening?
I didn't really notice any change from the opening in The Snowmen. It's different than it was prior to that, however. Why? Why not? New companion, new TARDIS interior, new wardrobe for the Doctor...why not a tweak to the opening as well?
I teach a University class full of students only slightly younger from rural Wyoming. Every single one of them knows what Wi-fi is and how to connect to it. I see your point, but anyone from a first world nation of that age should know how to connect to the internet.
Well, just because someone is clever, that doesn't mean they are into computers. She is maybe just that person who has never been bothered to care about computers.
minor spoilers ahead:
** spoiler omitted **
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People see what they want to see.This. If someone wants to make a case for bias or insult or prejudice, and there is ALWAYS someone who does, there's always a way to piece things together to get the look you want. You just have to dig hard enough and interpret things the way you think they should be to get the reaction you want.
Me personally, I'm not looking for that sort of thing, and I haven't seen anything so blatantly or overtly so as to make itself noticeable without having someone with an obvious agenda list it out point by point for me (which I have deliberately avoided such lists for that very reason). And as I've enjoyed the show immensely more since the departure of Davies (minus only really the loss of Donna), I don't see that changing any time soon.
Thing is. You really, and I mean, REALLY don't have to dig overly deep into Doctor Who (since season 5 started) to see sexism. you REALLY don't. I actualy wasn't awere that there was a change of writers between season 4 and 5, and what I knew of Moffat initialy was that he created the amazing "Blink" and "The unearthley child". I only started watching Doctor Who last year and I caught up on everything in 3 short months. So it's not as if I had a bias.
Just try, for the sake of the argument, to justify this dialog:
"I don't get it, Doctor. One moment she seems to be in love with you, the next she wants to kill you."
"She was programmed to kill me. Besides, it makes sense to her, she's a woman".
Or the following one, from the most recent episode:
medival monk: "Is it an evil spirit?"
The Doctor: "No, it's a woman"
*monk marks himself with a crucifix as protection against evil*
(this one is sort of fine as a joke and frankly it makes sense for a medival monk to fear women, but as I said earlier this kind of thing piles up)
It's not horrible, of course. There are many ways in which worse sexism could have been expressed, and for example in the latest episode there is an older female villain who is not degraded in any way for lacking male genetilia. That's nice. Clara is also shaping up to be a much better companion than Amy, with more defined character traits (that wasn't at all evidant in the christmas special but a miss every now and then is acceptable).
Now I linked earlier in this thread to an article about sexism in the Moffat years of Doctor Who. If you could read it, that would smooth along the discussion, I think.
I am NOT biased, I was NOT digging around for signs of sexism, but I stumbled upon them and they bothered me too much. Also, I do not watch TV looking for equal gender representation, and thinking a story is sexist has nothing to do with my enjoyment of it (I still like Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom, of whcih sexism is a noteable flaw). The fact that you like what Moffat has done with the show does NOT mean he is not writing in a sexist way. On doctor who I am maybe putting more responsibility tham I usualy would to educate, because kids watch it across the world and I think it's wrong to see the doctor telling his companion to "shut up", as he is supposed to be a character kids can look up to and admire, and that's not the kind of behavior I want them to admire.
There are people who will try to argue that Doctor Who is a racist show, or all sorts of the silly kinds of accusation about sexism that are pointless (I once saw a girl complain that none of the doctor who companions have "tough" jobs, like a police women or a soldier. I really don't get it - what will the doctor have to do with a soldier? besides, what's wrong with a woman working as a secertary or not really having a job, or studying to be a doctor?) but with only the SLIGHTEST bit of mental effort you can distinct the actual, solid argument from the moronic ones.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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[There are people who will try to argue that Doctor Who is a racist show, or all sorts of the silly kinds of accusation about sexism that are pointless (I once saw a girl complain that none of the doctor who companions have "tough" jobs, like a police women or a soldier. I really don't get it - what will the doctor have to do with a soldier? besides, what's wrong with a woman working as a secertary or not really having a job, or studying to be a doctor?) but with only the SLIGHTEST bit of mental effort you can distinct the actual, solid argument from the moronic ones.
Just wanted to hit this.
Jamie was a 'soldier' in that he was a Highlander. And Winnifred Bambera would have made an excellent foil/replacement to Sir Leftbridge Stewart. (Same thing goes for Katie Stewart).
Also, Martha = Harry = doctors (Bonus, Martha works for Unit, so they're both 'soldiers')
(might be stretching) Turlough = Rose = Student.
Yeah that argument is pretty flawed.
Edit: Now something that has gotten my dander up is we've had exactly one female companion in interviews with the first three Doctors. Carol Ann Ford didn't want to talk about working on the first Who? Katy Manning didn't want to talk about working with Jon Pertwee? Lis was very honest and kind about Pertwee and Baker's merits and flaws in her autobiography, so I'm sure she'd have been invaluable if she was still around. (R.I.P. Sarah Jane) Are we going to see Louise Jameson, Sarah Sutton, Lalla Ward or Janet Fiedling in a month? Or Nicola Byrant in three?
Hells I'm hoping to hear from the actual Doctors now that we've reached the actors who are still alive, but I want to hear from all the above, and Sophie Aldred. It's like seeing a special on 'the Companions' and not mentioning the 8 Doctors' worth that preceeded Rose Tyler.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The Snowmen Opening is the new opening. the new TARDIS interior debuted in that episode as well.ok, so any idea what the hell is wrong with the time matrix and the theme??I assume you're talking about the opening?
I didn't really notice any change from the opening in The Snowmen. It's different than it was prior to that, however. Why? Why not? New companion, new TARDIS interior, new wardrobe for the Doctor...why not a tweak to the opening as well?
Thank you, I somehow missed that. The new theme sounded 'ill' for lack of a better term, so I was wondering if there's a clue in it.
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[There are people who will try to argue that Doctor Who is a racist show, or all sorts of the silly kinds of accusation about sexism that are pointless (I once saw a girl complain that none of the doctor who companions have "tough" jobs, like a police women or a soldier. I really don't get it - what will the doctor have to do with a soldier? besides, what's wrong with a woman working as a secertary or not really having a job, or studying to be a doctor?) but with only the SLIGHTEST bit of mental effort you can distinct the actual, solid argument from the moronic ones.
Just wanted to hit this.
Jamie was a 'soldier' in that he was a Highlander. And Winnifred Bambera would have made an excellent foil/replacement to Sir Leftbridge Stewart. (Same thing goes for Katie Stewart).
Also, Martha = Harry = doctors (Bonus, Martha works for Unit, so they're both 'soldiers')
(might be stretching) Turlough = Rose = Student.Yeah that argument is pretty flawed.
Edit: Now something that has gotten my dander up is we've had exactly one female companion in interviews with the first three Doctors. Carol Ann Ford didn't want to talk about working on the first Who? Katy Manning didn't want to talk about working with Jon Pertwee? Lis was very honest and kind about Pertwee and Baker's merits and flaws in her autobiography, so I'm sure she'd have been invaluable if she was still around. (R.I.P. Sarah Jane) Are we going to see Louise Jameson, Sarah Sutton, Lalla Ward or Janet Fiedling in a month? Or Nicola Byrant in three?
Hells I'm hoping to hear from the actual Doctors now that we've reached the actors who are still alive, but I want to hear from all the above, and Sophie Aldred. It's like seeing a special on 'the Companions' and not mentioning the 8 Doctors' worth that preceeded Rose Tyler.
Never watched the old show, can't comment about it. I am only awere of the doctor as he was these past 7 years.
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@Lord Snow
IF you have Amazon Prime, they have a fair sampling from the different Doctors. I recommend The Aztecs (Hartnell) Tomb of the Cybermen (Troughton) either Spearhead from Space or the Three Doctors (Pertwee) City of Death (Tom Baker, with bonus that it was written by Douglass Adams) or the whole Key to Time series. Caves of Androzani (Davidson) Not much to recommend about Collin Baker's run, and Curse of Fenric for McCoy's run. There might be better examples, but those are the ones on Prime.
Netflix has some too, IIRC.
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@Lord Snow
IF you have Amazon Prime, they have a fair sampling from the different Doctors. I recommend The Aztecs (Hartnell) Tomb of the Cybermen (Troughton) either Spearhead from Space or the Three Doctors (Pertwee) City of Death (Tom Baker, with bonus that it was written by Douglass Adams) or the whole Key to Time series. Caves of Androzani (Davidson) Not much to recommend about Collin Baker's run, and Curse of Fenric for McCoy's run. There might be better examples, but those are the ones on Prime.
Netflix has some too, IIRC.
I wish I did, but I am not a U.S citizen so that option is unavilable to me.
I wish I did, but I am not a U.S citizen so that option is unavilable to me.@Lord Snow
IF you have Amazon Prime, they have a fair sampling from the different Doctors. I recommend The Aztecs (Hartnell) Tomb of the Cybermen (Troughton) either Spearhead from Space or the Three Doctors (Pertwee) City of Death (Tom Baker, with bonus that it was written by Douglass Adams) or the whole Key to Time series. Caves of Androzani (Davidson) Not much to recommend about Collin Baker's run, and Curse of Fenric for McCoy's run. There might be better examples, but those are the ones on Prime.
Netflix has some too, IIRC.
Good to know, I'll have to search Prime for some older episodes.
Slightly off topic, what's the deal with these longer Doctor Who specials revisiting earlier Doctors? Saw there was a Pertwee 3rd Doctor one yesterday but unfortunately had a DVR conflict and lack of space. Have there been ones for Doctor #1 or #2 so far? Are more planned for the future and if so, when?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The bright side is that so far all the episodes they've been showing are on Amazon. :-)
Moffit made an interesting comment about the beginning of the Pertwee era. It really was a radical change in format. The Doctor is now stuck on Earth, in a set time frame, dealing with the same people over and over. What they didn't mention is while the first two gave us iconic enemies, the Pertwee era gave us so much iconic Dcotor (Sonic screwdriver, the Master, more detail on Galifrey, etc)
I'm eagerly waiting for April's special, since Tom Baker is MY Doctor, and he's still alive, so hopefully it will be less talking about him, and more talking to him.
How's everyone liking the second half of season 7 so far? I am largely enjoying it. The only dislike is a general dislike of something Moffat tends to do--I am really, really, really getting sick of the timey wimey stuff. I do NOT need a large number of episodes dealing with rewriting time and why you can't rewrite time and why you can but just this once, especially since they are never consistent about any of it, and it just makes keeping track of what's "really" happened in the Whoniverse ridiculous. I am of course ranting about this because of the most recent episode...
I loved it until it was "fixed" by "we'll go back in time!" and all the cool character development was lost, and I really wanted the monsters in the TARDIS to be something other than they were (such as creatures that got simply got lost, sentient time monsters that evolved aboard the TARDIS, more echoes of memory and pain or hallucinations like those in Edge of Destruction, or POWs from the Time War). And I feel sorry for the young man who now once again thinks he's an android.
I still love a really good "inside the TARDIS" episode though, and we've been long overdue one. I loved the sets, I loved seeing the different bits and pieces. I really, REALLY hope Clara finds the library again.
But apart from that complaint, which I know is just something I'm going to have to put up with for as long as Moffatt is showrunner (and he otherwise is a decent writer so I'll suck it up), I've been enjoying it. The relationship between Clara and the Doctor is interesting, especially as they both seem to be friends and fascinated by each other and yet they both are a little afraid of each other, which is really interesting to see in a Doctor-companion relationship.
My favorite so far I think is the Akhaten episode. The sacrifice the Doctor is willing to make there is amazing; I also liked Clara's trying to befriend a little girl, and I LOVED the notion of sentiment as currency.
I've also been enjoying the brief callbacks to old Who in each episode...
The Doctor mentioning his granddaughter in the Akhaten episode (1st Doctor), the Ice Warriors in the submarine episode (2nd Doctor), the use of the meditation crystal from Metebelis 3 in the haunted house episode (3rd). I didn't notice an overt four reference in this one, but then the Cloister Bell was introduced in Four's time, as were the ideas of multiple console rooms (the tertiary console room used through part of the Sarah Jane and Leela eras) and people invading the TARDIS (Invasion of Time).
The nice thing about them is they are nice continuity nods without being distracting or requiring prior knowledge of the series---the people who get the references will get them, but the people who don't still miss nothing that is important to the story, which is a hard balance to maintain.
With the 50th anniversary a few things I'd like to see are:
I would be interested in seeing a multiple Master episode, in the way we've seen multiple Doctors in the past (possibly requiring some new actors to play older versions).
I'd like to see Romana 2 (original actress at her current age) show up back from e-space and then regenerate into Romana 3.
It would be good to see Susan return. Same with older versions of several other companions from the past.
More K-9 is never a bad thing.
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Contributor
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DQ: I'm very sad for the android, too.
I hope things got better for him. Does anyone have any suitably earthshaking ideas for the Doctor's name?
Or perhaps he really is John Smith or Mr. Foreman, an ex-human who became a timelord through exposure to the matrix... What does the key marked "Smiths" mean on the console, anyway?
Neither are likely, but would be pretty interesting.
The Doctor mentioning his granddaughter in the Akhaten episode (1st Doctor), the Ice Warriors in the submarine episode (2nd Doctor), the use of the meditation crystal from Metebelis 3 in the haunted house episode (3rd). I didn't notice an overt four reference in this one, but then the Cloister Bell was introduced in Four's time, as were the ideas of multiple console rooms (the tertiary console room used through part of the Sarah Jane and Leela eras) and people invading the TARDIS (Invasion of Time).
The Eye of Harmony was first mentioned in the Fourth Doctor's era as well (although it was arguably mentioned in THE THREE DOCTORS in the Third's, but only as a generic black hole). Also, in addition to the Ice Warriors, the Hostile Activity Displacement System was introduced in the Second Doctor's era as well, and the whole episode was a 'base under siege' story, a format that was widely used in the Second Doctor's era (though arguably introduced in the final First Doctor story).
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This half of 7th season is the best Iv'e seen from Moffat ever since he became the producer of the show. The doctor is showing more compassion than ever, most of the stories are at least decent, and the sexism seemed to have been tuned down a bit. It's not perfect - I have not the slightest clue what was going on in the "Rings of Akhatan" episode (why is the girl shooting psychic attacks at people? who are the Vigil and why do THEY have psychic attacks? has the singing actualy been helpful, or does it have nothing to do with the slumbering "god"? what is the monster thing in the glass cage? why, after offering his memories to the planet-parasite thing, Does the Doctor still remember everything? did the planet not want his memories? what does the planet even do? in which way is it capable of destroying anything?). And the "Journey to the heart of the Tardis" was probably the weakest episode of this second half of season 7 - I'm really disappointed that an episode which should have been about the Tardis turned out to be about lava monsters things. Kind of took the edge when monsters were stealing the show from the environment, which was much more interesting.
Still though, Iv'e been enjoying most of the newest episodes, which is a thing that cannot be said about seasons 5,6.
Um, they weren't "lava monsters." They were
I want a time war movie
I have been okay with Moffat's episode, but so far this season has been a bit dissapointing. There are some episodes I like, but a lot of episodes recently have had plot holes large enough to drive a truck through. Didn't much care for the last episode...the ashed creatures didn't make much sense (yes...I got they were the characters future selfs), I didn't see the need for the salvage crew in helping the doctor, and the whole thing was undone by a reset button at the end...making the purpose of the episode pointless.
Of the newer episodes, I have really only like Cold War, parts of the wireless episode and most of Hide (hated the ending).
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I have enjoyed the episodes with Clara, but they do not live up to some of Moffats work from the prior two seasons:
"The Eleventh Hour"
"The Beast Below"
"The Time of Angels" and "Flesh and Stone"
"The Pandorica Opens" and "The Big Band"
"The Impossible Astronaut" and "The Day of the Moon"
"A Good Man Goes to War"
"Let's Kill Hitler"
"The Wedding of River Song"
To me these are some of the best of Doctor Who. YMMV
Damn, I don't know how I managed to bork those spoiler tags and not notice. Apparently was channeling River Song ("Spoilers"). Sorry, guys.
DQ: I'm very sad for the android, too.
I hope things got better for him. Does anyone have any suitably earthshaking ideas for the Doctor's name?
** spoiler omitted **
No. I don't want to know the Doctor's name or even think of it. To me that misses the entire point. The question posed in the title is never supposed to be answered, in my personal opinion, and I feel it would ruin it if it ever was.
That seems unlikely. Omega is of Rassilon's generation, the first generation of the "current" society of Time Lords, predating the Doctor by far. The Cartmel Masterplan suggested there was "Another" with Omega and Rassilon who was implied to be a being who was later transformed into the Doctor, but that would still make the Doctor not-Omega. And when Omega and the Doctor have fought, there's been no suggestion they were merely fighting different incarnations of the same person, even with Omega in the form of Peter Davison with rice krispies and peanut butter smeared on his face. The Doctor always talks of Omega as a distinctly different entity--one he admired as a historical figure even.
I too have no desire to learn the Doctor's name. The suggestion that we get the word 'Doctor' from him was bad enough....
I enjoyed the TARDIS episode. Seeing those locations makes up for the timey-wimey get out at the end. The liquid Encyclopedia Gallifrey was a very nice touch. Ring of Akhanten I didn't enjoy so much. Precious momentos as currency. So no-one who lives there has a picture of mum, their engagement ring, their VHS copy of The Ice Warriors?.
Cheers
Mark
That's his nickname, Jeff. :)
Precious momentos as currency. So no-one who lives there has a picture of mum, their engagement ring, their VHS copy of The Ice Warriors?.
Not if there's something they consider more valuable. But they might hold onto something like that because it's either not worth trading, or it's part of their eventual downpayment on a house or whatever. ;) I would say the trick would be always being sure you kept something of value for dire situations--or opt to be "poor" and keep those things to yourself. It's actually why I love the concept. Some people don't care about pieces of paper or soft metal. Everyone really has to think about their "money" not just in terms of what it's worth to someone else, but what it's worth to them as something other than money--what's really worth giving up on an emotional level. Would really encourage fiscal responsibility. :)
Plus can you imagine buying on credit there...?
No. I don't want to know the Doctor's name or even think of it. To me that misses the entire point. The question posed in the title is never supposed to be answered, in my personal opinion, and I feel it would ruin it if it ever was.
I agree ENTIRELY. Has anyone ever thought that maybe this was the intent? They are preparing to end the series again?
I agree ENTIRELY. Has anyone ever thought that maybe this was the intent? They are preparing to end the series again?
No. I don't want to know the Doctor's name or even think of it. To me that misses the entire point. The question posed in the title is never supposed to be answered, in my personal opinion, and I feel it would ruin it if it ever was.
Seems like it's entirely too profitable a franchise for them to fold now.
Seems like it's entirely too profitable a franchise for them to fold now.I agree ENTIRELY. Has anyone ever thought that maybe this was the intent? They are preparing to end the series again?
No. I don't want to know the Doctor's name or even think of it. To me that misses the entire point. The question posed in the title is never supposed to be answered, in my personal opinion, and I feel it would ruin it if it ever was.
Agreed. However I have sort of a sixth sense for this sort of thing at times. Just call it a gut feeling. The same sort of feeling I had with DnD 3.5 and City of Heroes. Perhaps they are having trouble finding a new actor for the Doctor?
Agreed. However I have sort of a sixth sense for this sort of thing at times. Just call it a gut feeling. The same sort of feeling I had with DnD 3.5 and City of Heroes. Perhaps they are having trouble finding a new actor for the Doctor?Seems like it's entirely too profitable a franchise for them to fold now.I agree ENTIRELY. Has anyone ever thought that maybe this was the intent? They are preparing to end the series again?
No. I don't want to know the Doctor's name or even think of it. To me that misses the entire point. The question posed in the title is never supposed to be answered, in my personal opinion, and I feel it would ruin it if it ever was.
Then they should throw all their money at Benedict Cumberbatch. (Yes, I know, he's already Sherlock and Moffat has debunked rumors concerning him, but after watching Sherlock I think he'd make a fine pick.)
Then they should throw all their money at Benedict Cumberbatch. (Yes, I know, he's already Sherlock and Moffat has debunked rumors concerning him, but after watching Sherlock I think he'd make a fine pick.)Agreed. However I have sort of a sixth sense for this sort of thing at times. Just call it a gut feeling. The same sort of feeling I had with DnD 3.5 and City of Heroes. Perhaps they are having trouble finding a new actor for the Doctor?Seems like it's entirely too profitable a franchise for them to fold now.I agree ENTIRELY. Has anyone ever thought that maybe this was the intent? They are preparing to end the series again?
No. I don't want to know the Doctor's name or even think of it. To me that misses the entire point. The question posed in the title is never supposed to be answered, in my personal opinion, and I feel it would ruin it if it ever was.
Fire Moffat and cast Helen Mirren.
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To me, although it would be cool to have someone of Helen Mirren's status take on the role, it'd really be nothing more than burning away a regeneration, since the chances of her actually signing on for even a full series, much less multiple, would be exceedingly slim. She would play the role in an episode or two, mark "Play the Doctor" off her bucket list, and go back to making Hollywood movies.
... and what I knew of Moffat initialy was that he created the amazing "Blink" and "The unearthley child".Damn, he was one talented two-year-old!
Don't be silly, obviously Moffat is a Time Lord and traveled back to 1963 to write the first episode ever of Doctor Who. That he pretended at the time to be an Australian named Anthony Coburn just proves how clever he is.
;)
As to next Doctor... well, my favorite Doctor has always been the one played by Joanna Lumley. Maybe they can get her back. ;)
I don't think they are planning to end the series, it would be a major joykill, not to mention royally stupid, to have a huge 50th Anniversary Celebration and then say, "And that's all. The end."
And they're not going to "have trouble" finding a new Doctor. There are a massive number of actors who would kill, quite possibly actually kill, for that opportunity, and at least one of them has got to have the right Doctor-ness about them to handle it.
I don't know if Doctor Who will go on forever but I think it's got a few more years in it at least.
Has there been an official announcement at this point ending Matt Smith's tenure as Doctor #11? Is this supposed to be his last season?
i second Legendarius. Is Matt Smith leaving? I cant see Who ending anytime soon. Its very popular and they seem to be spending money on it. Plus they just brought in a new producer to help out Moffat (Brian Minchin)
Over the weekend i watched the retospective shows on the first 4 Dr's and there seems to be a stronger interest in bringing back more classic villians such as the Ice Warriors.
Lalla Ward also stated recently they want her back. Wondering if thats a 1 time spot for a special or a regeneration scene?
Any chance that Clara is Romana or Susan?
Not sure why they couldnt have a Time War movie and have the DR recast. It was done before with the tv special and the Peter cushing movie