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stringburka:
The Daleks that converted Oswin are unsane, even by Dalek standards. The normal rules of genocidal insistance of Dalek purity don't necessarily apply to them because they've all been locked up on a planet where all the walls are padded.
And as I've said, the Doctor DID figure out that not everything was kosher. He didn't ask "Where did you get the milk?" because he wanted to have cookies later.
Oswin herself was, if not insane in the same way as the Daleks of the asylum, deeply delusional and in denial about her status. If she can manage to ignore the fact that she doesn't have arms or legs, etc, simply changing the voice output on the PA system to support her delusion is a rather minor thing.
As for Moffat vs RTD on the sexism issue, call me when Moffat reduces a character to blow-job machine / slab of pavement. Until then, nobody can even remotely claim that Moffat isn't a major improvement.
Continuity: The fact that RTD had Skaro involved in the Time War at all shows that he didn't have much use for continuity (again, Skaro was destroyed in the episode Rememberance of the Daleks).
Moffat's continuity is a lot more complicated, but that's because he's doing something fairly revolutionary with the show...he's actually examining time travel as more than a method of transport from point A to point B. This is something that both classic Who (with some exceptions) and RTD nuWho were both guilty of...time travel was very VERY rarely used interestingly. Moffat is very good with writing stories that later reveal themselvees to have non-linear elements (see season 5 throughout).
More later....
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I just want to be included in Spoiler Fest 2012! ;-)
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EXPLOSIVE RUNES! ;-)
As for the 'articles' to support your arguement - hardly an unbiased critique of the show. And the Bechdel seems a crude tool and the wrong one to apply to a show with a limited cast with a male central character. A failure is scored unless two women talk to each other about any thing other than a man. So a woman talking to a man about a non-male subject is a fail - isn't that also sexist? Implying that a woman talking talking to a man is about sex even when it isn't?
Following up, it has been pointed out to me several times that the Twilight franchise passes the Bechdel test.
the prequel is worth watching :)
Just watched it. Without spoiling it adds to the storyline and somehow should have been advertised/included in episode.
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As a side note, I don't think Moffat's scores aren't actually that bad. Bechdel test scores are often abysmal. RTD's were surprisingly good.
I'm not surprised that AotD fails....there were really only two female characters in the episode, and I don't remember them actually speaking directly to each other.
Anyone else think Dr. Who is just some schitzophrenic in a padded room somewhere?
The Bechdel test is a crude tool. It's intended to be. Passing it doesn't guaranteed the feminist seal of approval. Failing it doesn't mean it's sexist. It's a broad rule of thumb.
Oh, Paizo, thy name is irony...
Although he COULD be a mind lost in the Time Lords' Matrix....
Scary thing is, within the Doctor Who universe, that's actually plausible...
Although he COULD be a mind lost in the Time Lords' Matrix....
Scary thing is, within the Doctor Who universe, that's actually plausible...
Suddenly we find Colin Baker never left the Matrix and the past 25+ years never happened.
stringburka:
** spoiler omitted **
The Daleks that converted Oswin are unsane, even by Dalek standards. The normal rules of genocidal insistance of Dalek purity don't necessarily apply to them because they've all been locked up on a planet where all the walls are padded.
Wasn't the conversion made by the automated system like the others? They don't mention this. It is POSSIBLE, but do you see how many things we are to assume that goes against what they hint at?
Oswin herself was, if not insane in the same way as the Daleks of the asylum
About that... In what way where the Daleks insane? We're never told what makes them worse than normal Daleks, and they act like all other Daleks.
deeply delusional and in denial about her status. If she can manage to ignore the fact that she doesn't have arms or legs, etc, simply changing the voice output on the PA system to support her delusion is a rather minor thing.
Except there wouldn't be any reason for a dalek-only facility to have different voice outputs with her voice in it. Or did she unconsciously program something that reads her mind and how she remembers her own voice and recreates this digitally? Really?
The thing is... This could have made sense. This could actually have made an excellent episode, where they explore what a race such as the Dalek would consider mental illness, where a Dalek that believed it was human was put into intensive care but hacked the system and helped the Doctor.
I could've bought this whole thing storywise, if they had just EXPLAINED more. It wouldn't even have had to be an all-verbal explanation, just some hints around that meant we didn't have to make all these kinds of contrived explanations for stuff that really doesn't make sense.
And still... Converting humans? It _makes no sense_. Last time anyone tried it that led to an actual revolt among the otherwise so obedient Daleks (Daleks in Manhattan) - and here we have a whole planet with an automated system for it!
As for Moffat vs RTD on the sexism issue, call me when Moffat reduces a character to blow-job machine / slab of pavement. Until then, nobody can even remotely claim that Moffat isn't a major improvement.
Yeah, because that's where we should set our standard (Hint: No, it's not). And a major improvement from what?
And saying that "nobody can even remotely claim" is kind of an obnoxious attitude towards critical analysis -Continuity: The fact that RTD had Skaro involved in the Time War at all shows that he didn't have much use for continuity (again, Skaro was destroyed in the episode Rememberance of the Daleks).
Eeeexcept Skaro was swapped with Antalin (War of the Daleks) so that the original Skaro survived - this is something that is explained in the series. I'd be fine with Skaro surviving again _if they mentioned it happening_.
Moffat's continuity is a lot more complicated, but that's because he's doing something fairly revolutionary with the show...he's actually examining time travel as more than a method of transport from point A to point B.
He's basically completely ignoring the rules we're told over and over again earlier in the series, which where only rarely broken (don't cross your own timeline) which in itself opens up to a lot of stupid stuff like teaching yourself stuff so you can teach yourself stuff. Yes, that also happened during the 10th doctor in the episodes Blink and Time Crash, but both of those where also written by Moffat.
There's an in-universe REASON that time travel is mainly used for transportation. Because you don't want to get eaten by reapers.
I'm not surprised that AotD fails....there were really only two female characters in the episode, and I don't remember them actually speaking directly to each other.
Yeah, but you know why there's only two female characters and why they don't talk to each other? Because _somebody wrote it like that_.
And while the bechdel test is a crude tool to measure a single movie or a single episode, it's a very valid tool to measure the existence and relevance of females in a series (or a genre, or anything that's more than just an episode or two). If a series manages less that 75% or so, then there's usually something wrong. Now, many shows suffer from this - because it's a sexist industry - but others.
Note: Others include doctor who reboot series 1-4, where about 80% of episodes passed, compared to now where less than 1/3 of episodes pass.
Of course, passing is no guarantee for not being sexist, and there are issues with sexism in the reboot 1-4 too, but there's a huge difference between now and then.
Just saw the latest episode though, which was far better. There were issues, but not nearly as much as AotD. One could do a full comparision, but I'll just list a few things I thought where big differences:
- The story made (mostly) sense. There weren't any huge plotholes and the Doctor actually tried to find out what was going on.
- The females of the story where an active part of the action instead of being constantly saved.
- There where sexist characters, but the sexism was confronted. This is what I was talking about with the difference of a show with a sexist world and a sexist show (not to say there were no issues, but not in the same ballpark as AotD)
- There was a named non-white person there. That didn't die. That's like the first time in a looong while.
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If the conversion were made by the nanocloud, then Oswin would look like Jenna-Louise Coleman, only with a Dalek eyestalk sticking out of her forehead. They specifically made a point of saying that the Daleks chose her to perform a full conversion on because she was a genius. Hell, it even showed a flashback of them capturing her.
It's hard for me to take the rest of your complaints seriously when you didn't pick up fairly obvious plot points.
They DID tell us that Skaro was back....in this episode. RE: War of the Daleks, spin-off media isn't really considered canon.
"Converting humans? It _makes no sense_."
Neither does banging your own head against a wall continuously, but some insane people do that.
Would you rather they wrote extraneous female characters that are pointless to the story just so that Amy will have someone to talk to about something that isn't the Doctor or Rory. Maybe we can call them the Bledsel extras.
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship was fun little romp, but it was definitely no Asylum of the Daleks.
Doesn't the Betchdel test make all silent movies fail it. So if I made a silent movie about women getting the right to vote it would be sexist?
Suddenly we find Colin Baker never left the Matrix and the past 25+ years never happened.Although he COULD be a mind lost in the Time Lords' Matrix....
Scary thing is, within the Doctor Who universe, that's actually plausible...
It would explain Mel's lack of backstory at least...
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And the show forced me to take back my "oh no Daleks" whining earlier--they actually made that episode good. Now if we can be without them for a little while still, though....In my opinon, Asylum is the best Dalek story of nuWho yet.
I think that the Moffat/Smith era has finally found it's stride...
Cheers
Mark
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I have liked the first two episodes of the new season. The overall story arch does not seem as purposeful as in the prior Matt Smith seasons. In the first season we had the "Crack in Amy's Wall" that lead to a climax of the Pandorica. And last season we had the "Death of the Doctor" to keep our attention. The first two episodes, IMHO were simply that, episodes. There are hints of a over-arching theme, but it is not as central to the stories as it was in the first two Matt Smith seasons. We know we are heading toward the departure of Amy Pond. But instead of making this a primary theme, we are having good quality episodes where Amy and Roy are along for the ride. And where is River Song?
Cheers,
Mazra
In prison I presume, or at a point in her timeline that doesn't cross the Doctor's. I don't mind her absence, she's best in small, very separate doses IMO. Have her around too long and she starts to grate on me.
I'm pretty sure she's mostly done with, anyhow, now that her story's mostly played out. And with the Ponds on the exit, she might be pretty much fully out of future plots.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Mazra,
I think the arc of this series is the passing of the Doctor from the remembrance of the universe. Hatred of the Doctor had strengthened the daleks, and now that's gone. Something similar happens with Solomon. I think we'll see that theme develop.
Also, there is a notable increase in the Doctor's ruthlessness. "A good man doesn't need rules." The Doctor has a lot of them, but he seems to be finding loopholes this series.
Also, there is a notable increase in the Doctor's ruthlessness. "A good man doesn't need rules." The Doctor has a lot of them, but he seems to be finding loopholes this series.
Which, in the past, has been a constant reason for his picking up Companions - they keep him grounded and more or less sane. But now he's not actively traveling with anyone (much like Tennant was between Martha and Donna) and only picks up his friends on occasional, months-between visits... meaning he's likely slipping back into old bad habits.
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Have her around too long and she starts to grate on me.
To each their own. For me, many of my favorite episodes had one thing in common, and that was River Song. Maybe her time has past. But I sure hope not. YMMV.
The overall theme is far more subtle this season than in the previous two seasons. Maybe it will be the kind that will give us a thread here and there to really wow us in the end. I guess we will see. All I am certain is that the previous two season of Dr. Who IMHO has been some of the best ever made. I am looking forward to see where we go with the Daleks and Dinosaurs on a spaceship. ;)
Cheers,
Mazra
It's problematic. Being a Companion is a much more risky business these days...Tell that to Katrina, Sara Kingdom, Adric, Kamelion, and Peri.
nuWho has yet to actually kill a companion. It made a lot of noise about both Rose and Donna, but their "deaths" were symbolic.
Kerney
This gets messy and timey wimey as to what really did happen in Classic Who and what can be remembered, but as to Skaro--it's possible they managed it so that the Hand was diverted somehow from Skaro and destroyed something else, so the events of the episode as seen happened, except that what the Doctor thinks of as Skaro being destroyed is another planet or something.
Chief Technical Officer
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"On the fields of Trensalore, at the fall of the 11th, when no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer, a question will be asked. A question that must never, ever be answered."
I just wonder how far we are away from this? I hope it will be a long while. And I wonder if this is something planned for this season, or a foreshadowing of the eventual end of the Matt Smith era as Dr. Who?
Tonight: Ben Browder, and a cyborg gunslinger.
-laughter- Rory is my favorite companion right after the Brigader
Not to do with the current series, but as an FYI to fans:
Janet Fielding has cancer. In order to help keep her spirits up, Peter Davison recently organized a Doctor Who convention, "Project MotorMouth," to raise money for Project MotorHouse, a project Fielding has been devoted to (it's a plan to renovate a museum/concert hall to revitalize and bring jobs to a town in the UK). While the convention has already sold out just wanted you guys to know what was going on. Per a recent Twitter from Fielding, there should be other opportunities to contribute to Project MotorHouse as well.
Sucks to hear =/ Hope the charity works out well.
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Next week is Amy and Rory's final episode
On the upside it looks like they're back to warping people into the past as in "Blink" and not just randomly killing folks like they were in "Time of the Angels".
Also the crouching baby angel statue at the very beginning of the previews looks exactly like a statue my neighbors have in their yard. So yeah.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Not to do with the current series, but as an FYI to fans:
Janet Fielding has cancer. In order to help keep her spirits up, Peter Davison recently organized a Doctor Who convention, "Project MotorMouth," to raise money for Project MotorHouse, a project Fielding has been devoted to (it's a plan to renovate a museum/concert hall to revitalize and bring jobs to a town in the UK). While the convention has already sold out just wanted you guys to know what was going on. Per a recent Twitter from Fielding, there should be other opportunities to contribute to Project MotorHouse as well.
Thank you for the info. I'll have to find some cash to send, if nothing else to thank Ms. Fielding for the enjoyment she gave me in my childhood.
Aside, Lis Sladden, Mary Tamm, and now Janet Fielding. I think we've just found another hazzard of travelling with the Doctor. It may cause cancer.
Thank you for the info. I'll have to find some cash to send, if nothing else to thank Ms. Fielding for the enjoyment she gave me in my childhood.Aside, Lis Sladden, Mary Tamm, and now Janet Fielding. I think we've just found another hazzard of travelling with the Doctor. It may cause cancer.
Per her Twitter she's been very touched by the outpourings of support, and I'm sure she'd appreciate it.
I wouldn't list her amongst those we've lost just yet. :) But it is confounding and saddening to think of the recent deaths--Caroline John died of cancer as well--I hope that awful disease will some day be a thing easily treated and deaths from cancer largely a thing of the past.
i was disapointed with last weeks episode compared to the first 2 episodes this year but it was nice to see a mention of a classic.
Next week is Amy and Rory's final episode** spoiler omitted **I've seen a pic that made me *squee*....
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OH FFFFFFFFFFF
She's made of bronze, not stone, fortunately. Plus, she's French.
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