Contributor
|
I've not seen Last Night. Does he give her the screwdriver?
It's in the DVD set.
Yes, sorta. The Doctor and River run into River and the Doctor on the way to the Towers of Darillium, which is canonically, where he gives her the screwdriver. So it's all tangled up, but the definite implication is that River's timeline with the Doctor has almost wound down.
Still no discussion of the Xmas Special..OK..I can sort of understand that as I'm still trying to figure out how I felt about it..apart from very, very confused.
I don't think that "Last Night" really implies that their timelines won't cross again. After all, they've never been even remotely linear in their meetings. Plus, I believe she's already scheduled to be a part of Series 7 Part 2.
This.
Last night didn't show anything we didn't already know. Someday the Doctor will see her for the last time and give her the screwdriver.
That is still in the Doctor's future... since he saw a future version of himself off on that adventure. But he HIMSELF has not done it yet.
The only new information we get... is that it WILL be the 11th Doctor that gives her the screwdriver. Sooooo they're story will be wrapped up during Matt Smith's tenure.
Actually... that's not even true.
We really only see a FRACTION of the Doctor's adventures. He's aged 100's of years between episodes sometimes. River recognized Tennant as the Doctor and started asking him about various adventures that SHE remembered sharing with HIM... Not Smith... but HIM.
She stated that the last time SHE saw the doctor... the future doctor, he gave her that screwdriver... but that does not mean it was the last time that HE saw HER ;)
All HIS future escapades are just with a 'younger' River then the one he knows is dead...
I really don't think we'll see the 'end' of her... Really and truly, until Moffat is off the series. She's kind of a pet project of his.
|
So yeah, the xmas episode sucked on so many levels...
1) at the most basic level, the story was silly, even in Doctor Who standards. I was not for a split second convinced that an army of ice nannys can do anything to humanity. Seriously, how are snowmen with teeth a threat?
2)moronic pop culture references, like the bad guy saying "winter is coming" like 5 times during the episode
3)The Doctoe is NOT behaving like the Doctor ("I'm the smart one, you are the potato one!"? really? what happened to te Doctor who'll give anyone a chance, who fought to save as many as he could because he knew they are all brilliant in their own way?)
4) Clara is NOT a character. She dosen't behave like a human being, she seems to have no reason or motivation to anything she does (how is a 10 seconds long conversation with a stranger going to send her running after his carrige, jumping into it, allowing herself to be locked inside it without caring all that much, and seeing an alien try to look fir a worm that can eat memories without even wandering about it...). Why is she leading a double life? besides "witty" and "pretty" there's nothing much you can say about her.
5) Sexisem!
The Doctor: "This is a time travel spaceship! I can take you anywhere in time and space! ANYWEHRE!"
Clara: "Is there a kitchen?"
>_<
6) It looks like we are going to have a meta plot again, with The Doctor searching for Clara and something called te Great Intelligence doing stuff in the background. I miss the days when Doctor Who was about a brilliant man (and his companions) traveling to wonderful places out of a lust to see and know and feel the universe in the grandes way possible. Sure they'd go around saving the world each episode, and there usualy was a looming threat slowley building over the course of the season, but it was still not the focus of the show. These days nearly all the focus of the show is on personal, small case stuff hapening to the Doctor. I don't like that, but this is more of a personal issue.
|
|
3 and 4 were the whole point they were trying to get across. That's the "Something Wrong" for this series.
I personally thought it was a very good episode. Quite a lot better then a majority of the episodes of the past series. Plus no mention of River Song, that always improves an episode. I do hope that we have seen the last of that character.
|
|
Of course Doctor who has had some VERY weak episodes at the earlier seasons, it's just the in seasons 3 and 4 it was really awesome, and then in 5 and onward it got worse and worse until now, in season 7, there was not a single episode so far that had anything going for it(they managed to make an episode with DINSOAURS ON A SPACESHIP boering - that's one hack of an achievment). Hope is at the end of this season the Doctor will regenerate and so will the chief writer and editor, Steven Moffat, to be replaced by someone who is not a sexist and who is capable of writing convincing stories and characters that make something even remotley similat to sense.
Well, I enjoyed it, so it couldn't have sucked that much! I will admit that I make extra allowances for a 'Christmas Special' but I think you're being a bit harsh.
1. Ice is hard and sharp. Cold can kill. As for the snowmen...I'll explain later.
2. Since the majority of the British public have not sold their souls to the Murdoch empire or bought the DVD any Game of Thrones reference is probably a coincidence....I didn't spot it at the time and I wasn't counting the quotes anyway.
3. My problem with this stuff is the Sontaran as comic relief. But hey...Christmas Special.
4. Someone is throwing Claras and Oswins at the Doctor. So far the actress has had guest appearences...let's wait for the series proper.
5. Really?
6. Nothing wrong with a meta-plot. It's how good it is that matters.
The way I see things this is the start of a big push to the 50th anniversary. The re-worked title sequence seems a mix of all the ones that have gone before (including the addition of the Doctor's face, the diamond shaped tunnel and the TARDIS engine sound towards the end). The new TARDIS interior is starker, reminscent of the earlier series (I'm expecting a food machine to make an appearence - hmmm! souffle flavoured mars bars). The Doctor once again in a frock coat. And the return of an old enemy - a Great Intelligence with a penchant for snowmen who are scary, evil...abominable sounds like a good adjective. ;-)
My take on Clara is she is a lure, plant or whatever. Placed into the Doctor's timeline for some unknown purpose. The Guardians? The Master? Think Tank? Who knows, but to solve it will take more than one Doctor......
Cheers
Mark
Hope is at the end of this season the Doctor will regenerate and so will the chief writer and editor, Steven Moffat, to be replaced by someone who is not a sexist and who is capable of writing convincing stories and characters that make something even remotley similat to sense.
Really??
I'm surprised he can be called 'sexist'. River and Amy are two of the most overbearing 'power-women' I've seen on tv in YEARS. In fact... I wish Dr. who was a bit MORE sexist and have him put them in their place a bit more.
Heck even as far back as Donna it seems like this 900 year old immortal time lord is getting upstaged by the women in his life. He's ANCIENT... GENIUS... yet every time he says something the last few years, there's been some woman nearby to make him look stupid.
I really miss the days of Martha and Rose... back when he was this exotic god creature that dazzled everyone around him with his vast experience... Lately he's more the sidekick then they are...
I think it takes more than throwing a mini-skirt on a character to be called 'sexist'... The characters themselves are strong independent women.
6. Nothing wrong with a meta-plot. It's how good it is that matters.
In MOST shows... I love metaplot. Honestly in THIS show, I'm getting tired of it. I do NOT think it is handled very well.
In the early series every episode was an adventure. The series was about time-traveling space travling tour guide... You could end up ANYwhere, ANYwhen, and ANYTHING could happen...
Now it seems like one season is ONE adventure... and honestly I want more...
A LOT of it is the sickenly short seasons that Doctor who has... 12-13 episodes?? Rubbish!! I want a solid 22 episodes a year!!! That's what MOST of my favorite series do. But when you only get 12 episodes, and 3 of them are 2-parters... Your REALLY not getting a lot of adventure here...
And moffat has an annoying habit of 'cliff hangers' and 'loose threads'...
He's introducing too many ideas and doesn't have time to follow up with them. I'm STILL waiting to find out How the Tardis blew up. They ended season 5 with THAT mystery as their 'main concern'... 2 years for us, and 100-200 years for HIM... and it just hasn't come up since. And now I highly doubt it will :-/
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
|
So yeah, the xmas episode sucked on so many levels...
1) at the most basic level, the story was silly, even in Doctor Who standards. I was not for a split second convinced that an army of ice nannys can do anything to humanity. Seriously, how are snowmen with teeth a threat?
2)moronic pop culture references, like the bad guy saying "winter is coming" like 5 times during the episode
3)The Doctoe is NOT behaving like the Doctor ("I'm the smart one, you are the potato one!"? really? what happened to te Doctor who'll give anyone a chance, who fought to save as many as he could because he knew they are all brilliant in their own way?)
4) Clara is NOT a character. She dosen't behave like a human being, she seems to have no reason or motivation to anything she does (how is a 10 seconds long conversation with a stranger going to send her running after his carrige, jumping into it, allowing herself to be locked inside it without caring all that much, and seeing an alien try to look fir a worm that can eat memories without even wandering about it...). Why is she leading a double life? besides "witty" and "pretty" there's nothing much you can say about her.
5) Sexisem!
The Doctor: "This is a time travel spaceship! I can take you anywhere in time and space! ANYWEHRE!"
Clara: "Is there a kitchen?"
>_<6) It looks like we are going to have a meta plot again, with The Doctor searching for Clara and something called te Great Intelligence doing stuff in the background. I miss the days when Doctor Who was about a brilliant man (and his companions) traveling to wonderful places out of a lust to see and know and feel the universe in the grandes way possible. Sure they'd go around saving the world each episode, and there usualy was a looming threat slowley building over the course of the season, but it was still not the focus of the show. These days nearly all the focus of the show is on personal, small case stuff hapening to the Doctor. I don't like that, but this is more of a personal issue.
1) I think the problem with the snowmen was that with one brief exception, we didn't really seem them do much but stand around looking spooky. They never really established them as a credible threat.
I too thought the ice-nanny was a bit silly (mostly because she was talking an acting like an angry nanny, rather than a monstrous ice creature), but you have to remember she was essentially indestructible.2) I chuckled at the first one, but after that I hardly noticed.
3) The doctor is always a bit out of sorts when he loses a companion. I think it would have been more jarring to see him acting like nothing ever happened.
4) As the great American impostor Stanley Clifford Weyman once said, "One man's life is a boring thing. I lived many lives. I'm never bored.".
5) Really? It's sexist for a woman to enjoy cooking? Or are you saying its sexist because she's didn't get all googly eyed over his space/timeship? She wants a kitchen because she likes cooking for herself, that doesn't strike me as demeaning to women in any way.
6) From what I've read, the Great Intelligence is a reference to a villain from Classic Who, so in this case the metaplot is a callback to the very days of Doctor Who you miss :)
The 'whassup with Clara' plot does have potential to last the season though, but I'm willing to bet it'll go on the back burner after this next episode.
He's introducing too many ideas and doesn't have time to follow up with them. I'm STILL waiting to find out How the Tardis blew up. They ended season 5 with THAT mystery as their 'main concern'... 2 years for us, and 100-200 years for HIM... and it just hasn't come up since. And now I highly doubt it will :-/
I agree with you there....we'll probably find out when we see the Doctor's skeleton holding the Sonic Screwdriver on an empty battlefield....
Sexism in Who: Zoe's catsuits, Jo's skirts, Mel's screaming (well, everyone's screaming). Peri. We never had so good....
Cheers
Mark
Sexism in Who: Zoe's catsuits, Jo's skirts, Mel's screaming (well, everyone's screaming). Peri. We never had so good....Cheers
Mark
....
I'll confess, it's 5:30 hear and i'm coming off a 12 hour shift, so these references are REALLY not connecting with me right now... Are referencing characters? Actresses? I'm probably gonna kick myself when I figure this out....
Amy wore short skirts as a power/manipulative thing. She was hot and she knew it. She enjoyed having the men folk melt around her.
I haven't seen this christmas episode yet, that should be happening in a few days... hard to get the normal crew together around the holidays :(
But why is asking for a kitchen considered 'sexist'? I know TWO women just off the top of my head that LOVE cooking and trying out new things. ALien spaceship?? NEW RECIPES!!!
I think probably the MOST sexist of the companions was martha... her whole mission statement was to wander around a gaze adoringly at the doctor... who promptly ignored her.
But even then she was played like and ACTUAL person could/would/and HAS... SOME women get rejected... SOME women use their looks to manipulate people... SOME women like to cook...
Unless there is some mandate presented that says this is ALL THEY ARE GOOD FOR... then I don't think 'Sexism' is present. These are common aspects of many women... and it's only a single facet in strong multidimensional characters...
at least as multi-dimensional as 13 episodes can GET ;)
I'm on your side here....a female character asking about a kitchen is not neccesarily sexist, but you could argue that assuming it is, is (if you follow).
Even Martha (a brave, intelligent, professional, caring woman) just had a thin motivation of being in love with the Doctor...or maybe the theme was unrequited love?
Get some sleep.....
Cheers
Mark
|
|
to all those who claim there is no sexism in Steven Moffats writing, here is an EXCELLENT (though a bit long) article that explains exactly why there is, and quite a lot of it, too:
http://ofdiceandpenblog.blogspot.co.il/2012/12/sexism-in-steven-moffats-doc tor-who.html
And by the way... yes it is sexist to show Clara only caring about the possibility of a kitchen. Seriously, try to imagine a single human being who will act like that. She is a victorian woman - even the concept of an airplane should seem outlandish. Yet she climbs a stirway to the sky, walks on a cloud, enters a machine that's "smaller on the outside" (nice touch there), the god who runs that machine explains he can take her anywhere and anywhen in existance... and she asks about a KITCHEN. dosen't that imply that a kitchen is where she wants to be most?
"I can take you anywhere"
"can you take me to a kitchen?"
if you would have replaced "kitchen" with, say, "living room" that would just be odd - but given that the trope of the woman who desires nothing more than cooking for her family and raising children and loving a husband is a very common one, a TV show should take extra care to present woman as something more than that.
Anyway, read the article.
edit: for some reason I can't make the link work... if it dosen't work for you either, just type the following in google and choose the first result:
"of dice and pen Sexism in Steven Moffat's Doctor Who?"
|
|
A LOT of it is the sickenly short seasons that Doctor who has... 12-13 episodes?? Rubbish!! I want a solid 22 episodes a year!!! That's what MOST of my favorite series do. But when you only get 12 episodes, and 3 of them are 2-parters... Your REALLY not getting a lot of adventure here...
Maybe you don't know much about British TV, but Doctor Who is getting more than double the amount of episodes per series than most other comparable shows. Hell, Moffat's other show, Sherlock, gets 3 episodes per series. As for two-partners, Moffat has said that they are going to be cutting them down.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Or her asking about a kitchen is to lead to her mentioning she likes making souffles so the Doctor realizes who she is.
Or just go ahead and assume the worst. Either way.
A LOT of it is the sickenly short seasons that Doctor who has... 12-13 episodes?? Rubbish!! I want a solid 22 episodes a year!!! That's what MOST of my favorite series do. But when you only get 12 episodes, and 3 of them are 2-parters... Your REALLY not getting a lot of adventure here...Maybe you don't know much about British TV, but Doctor Who is getting more than double the amount of episodes per series than most other comparable shows. Hell, Moffat's other show, Sherlock, gets 3 episodes per series. As for two-partners, Moffat has said that they are going to be cutting them down.
Sherlock episodes are 90 minutes long, though. But this year's series "The Good Cop" had only 4 one hour long episodes. That's very short.
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
|
I never claimed there was no sexism in Moffat's writing, merely that in this case, I think it's a stretch.
I don't think Clara's comment implies that she wants nothing more than to work in a kitchen. If that's what she wanted, she wouldn't be chasing strangers up impossible stairways into their magic rooms that travel in space and time. Instead, she'd be back at the inn, working in a kitchen.
Nor does she confirm the trope of the woman wanting nothing more than to settle down and care for her family and children. In fact, by going off with the Doctor she's doing the exact opposite of that. She had good prospects for marriage with Captain Fancypants, and was raising two nice kids who she clearly cared for. She was leaving them behind to go with the Doctor.
Granted, Clara was far less impressed with the miraculous stuff going on around her than an average Victorian woman would have been, but I don't see how that's a poor reflection on her gender in any way, nor does it seem to confirm any sort of stereotype I'm aware of. I suspect it has something to do with the weird stuff going on with her.
|
|
Or her asking about a kitchen is to lead to her mentioning she likes making souffles so the Doctor realizes who she is.
Or just go ahead and assume the worst. Either way.
I normally don't assume the worst... except when the man writing the script to the show I'm now watching once said,
"There’s this issue you’re not allowed to discuss: that women are needy. Men can go for longer, more happily, without women. That’s the truth. We don’t, as little boys, play at being married—we try to avoid it for as long as possible. Meanwhile women are out there hunting for husbands."
or, at another oppertunity, when he described the relationship between Rose and the Doctor,
“You have to hand it to the Doctor for dumping a slightly needy girlfriend by palming her off on a copy of himself. He tried leaving her in a parallel universe, and that didn’t work.”
That, plus everything mentioned in the article lead me to the strighforward conclusion that yes, Moffat is a sexist.
So when I know a man is a sexist... and I see the patterns he creates in his writing... and I see a woman presented with the option to go anywhere in the universe asking about a kitchen... you bet I assume the worst.
Oh, and recognizing Carla by her affection to souffles is also kinda silly - but that has nothing to do with sexism. If it were up to me, the Doctor should have been brilliant enough to figure out who she was without that "hint", but meh.
|
|
Also,
Moffat went over the "women can't drive" trope, too
having a female character who is a bad driver and got a license by seducing the tester... ok, y'know, whatever. Acceptable. don't assume that it's sexist, it's just about that specific character.
And now the next character has a completley unproportional love of being in a kitchen. Yeah...
Yeah, this conversion has drifted way off topic. So I'll just say that I find the female characters to have many positive qualities and enjoy the show....YMMV
Cheers
Mark
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Any thories on Who Clara is? Any chance shes a timelord? Is the Sontaran butler the same one from the Tenant series and why is he currently with the Doctor right now? Can someone explain what the tardis/staircase in the clouds was. I couldnt hear the explanation?
Why wouldn't you want a kitchen in your tardis? As I guy I want one what if you get hungry. Also why didn't Clara have the doctor cook her something.
|
|
Why wouldn't you want a kitchen in your tardis? As I guy I want one what if you get hungry. Also why didn't Clara have the doctor cook her something.
You would also want a toilet in the Tardis, and probably a shower as well, and a trash can and it would also be nice if you could get maybe a newspaper to keep track of what's going on earth (or even, in the special case of the Tardis, to keep track of what WILL be going on on earth). There are a hunderd little details that the show dosen't bother itself with, and a kitchen is certainly one of them.
She didn't have the Doctor cook her something because not only were they busy saving the world at the time (before she died 100 seconds after seeing the Tardis for the first time from the inside and managing to ask about a kitchen in that time frame), but she LOVES cooking. Of course she does. And Amy Pond can't drive. And River Song only ever became an archeolegist so that she could meet The Doctor. Seriously, those things are fine individualy but they stack up intp something ugly.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
She didn't have the Doctor cook her something because not only were they busy saving the world at the time (before she died 100 seconds after seeing the Tardis for the first time from the inside and managing to ask about a kitchen in that time frame), but she LOVES cooking. Of course she does. And Amy Pond can't drive. And River Song only ever became an archeolegist so that she could meet The Doctor. Seriously, those things are fine individualy but they stack up intp something ugly.
Meh....
People see what they want to see. EVERY companion has their flaws... Mickey was a whiny needy idiot. Needier then Rose ever was. Capt. Jack wanted to sleep with EVERYTHING... as off course all 'bi' people would... Rory?!? He's technicley got more than 2000 years of memory/life... but is STILL treated like a moron half the time. Not even counting all the 'male nurse' comments...
For every 'sexist' thing that happens with a female character... there is an equal 'insult' to a male character. IF you wish to look for them.
Capt. Jack wanted to sleep with EVERYTHING... as off course all 'bi' people would...
Jack isn't "bi," he's omnisexual. Pretty much every taboo seems to have gone out the window by whatever century it is that Jack's originally from. Heck, his former partner, played by James Marsters on Torchwood, got turned on seeing a poodle.
|
Any thories on Who Clara is?
The new companion. ;)
Any chance shes a timelord?
Sure. But personally I doubt it.
Is the Sontaran butler the same one from the Tenant series and why is he currently with the Doctor right now?
The actor played a different Sontaran in the Tennant series. It was the same Sontaran from A Good Man Goes to War.
Can someone explain what the tardis/staircase in the clouds was. I couldnt hear the explanation?
I missed that too.
There was an explanation for the cloud platform? I missed that. I guess it was to hide away the police box, which probably didn't exist at that time.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
RE: sexist Kitchen....
Its not sexist you knob...its a direct reference to the fact that all the Oswin's like to cook, especially soufle'.
I swear the internet has an over affection with applying a women's studies class to every nook and crany of pop culture. You can twist anything to suit your needs. Skirt to short? they had to oversex the female lead...female lead who kicks ass is wearing pants? Well they had to de-feminize her in order to establish that a female lead cant be strong and feminine at the same time.
People see what they want to see.
This. If someone wants to make a case for bias or insult or prejudice, and there is ALWAYS someone who does, there's always a way to piece things together to get the look you want. You just have to dig hard enough and interpret things the way you think they should be to get the reaction you want.
Me personally, I'm not looking for that sort of thing, and I haven't seen anything so blatantly or overtly so as to make itself noticeable without having someone with an obvious agenda list it out point by point for me (which I have deliberately avoided such lists for that very reason). And as I've enjoyed the show immensely more since the departure of Davies (minus only really the loss of Donna), I don't see that changing any time soon.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
RE: sexist Kitchen....
Its not sexist you knob...its a direct reference to the fact that all the Oswin's like to cook, especially soufle'.
I swear the internet has an over affection with applying a women's studies class to every nook and crany of pop culture. You can twist anything to suit your needs. Skirt to short? they had to oversex the female lead...female lead who kicks ass is wearing pants? Well they had to de-feminize her in order to establish that a female lead cant be strong and feminine at the same time.
While I will admit that there is a problem with sexism, I'm also firmly a believer that if you go into something determined to find something sexist/racist/classist/etc about it, you WILL find it, even if you have to pound a square peg into a round hole to do so.
Moffat's female characters do tend to be somewhat similar, in that they are strong, smart, witty, and gorgeous. Personally, I've never had a problem with women with those qualities. :)
[damn you, Orthos, you sneaky ninja]
When should we expect to see new episodes?
Also i bet the Tardis has a kitchen. There are some episodes from the 70's in which theres a changing room (Romana episode)and i believe a swimming pool. Lots of staircases as well. Hopefully at some point we get to see these again.
Quick question on Tennants last episode? Was that Romana as one of the timelords. Wilfred asks the Doctor who she is but the Dr never answers.
|
|
AFAIK it's one of the great unanswered questions. It could be Romana, or even Susan for all we know. From the Doctor's point of view, no other Time Lord besides the Master who had hidden himself literally at the End of the Universe, survived the Time War.
According to RTD, it was the Doctor's mother. Not a fan of that concept, since the Doctor has never even mentioned his parents before in 50 years of the show. Romana or Susan are really the only ones that make any sense, at least from the perspective of the audience.
Wasn't there also a villainous female Time Lord running around for the while? Rani or something? Though I doubt it'd be her, but then I don't remember the scene in question in that last Tennant episode very well.