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Good news, Superstar hopefuls! The judges have completed their initial pass through all the items in the submission folder. Everything is now sorted into its proper place...with a handful of promising items in the Keep pile and the others in the Reject pile. Now begins a process I like to term, "The Winnowing."
The Winnowing:
This basically boils down to the judges going back over the Keep pile to reaffirm their individual votes on each item. Those which garner a strong Keep vote from all the judges quickly find themselves placed in a unanimous grouping. These are almost always universally destined to make the Top 32. After that, we group those which get at least three Keep votes from the judges. Then, there's another grouping with only two Keep votes. And, lastly, there's a much smaller collection of any items a judge may have marked for possible "golden ticket" status even though they may be the only one championing it.
Once we've got everyone on record, we'll double-check the Keep votes to see how many might be Weak Keeps...a term the judges use to denote something they weren't overly enthusiastic about, but deemed the item still worthy of consideration during review time. So, for example, if an item collected two strong Keep votes and two Weak Keep votes, that means it still might not be as strong as another item where three judges had strong Keep votes, but one judge voted to Reject it.
It's all rather subjective. And that's really what "The Winnowing" process involves. There's a lot of hyper-analysis at this stage. We hold up a number of items to compare them one another. And, we do a lot of looking past just the item itself to try and determine what its design tells us about the designer. Because, honestly, we're not interested as much in the items. We're looking for designers here. There's no collection of wondrous items we're expecting to insert into Ultimate Equipment guide. Instead, we're looking for 32 designers (plus 4 alternates) which we can take through the paces of the actual contest, where--round by round--we'll be coaching them and watching to see how much they grow and learn. That's the real goal of the contest. And all of you who submitted have taken your shot at getting your foot in the door so you can take advantage of this opportunity. Where else can you get this kind of professional insight into your designs all in one multi-week crash course of tasks intended not just to test your skills, but hone them as well?
Only in RPG Superstar, of course!
So, buckle in and strap down people! The judges are about to get down to the serious business of assessing your items now. And, if you're one of the lucky few in the Keep folder, you can rest assured we'll be looking at all those elements which help it stand out. In other words, the elements which make it...Superstar!
Best of luck to everyone,
--Neil
.... and the crowd goes silent.....
Has anyone asked if this is fun for you judges? I'm sure you do some eye-rolling during the first round, but do you guys also enjoy the content you receive? Clark has a thread mentioning the growth of the collective effort in the contest, what else do you and the other judges really like about judging (besides ultimate power/itty bitty cubicle space)?
And a reiterative Thanks! for the panel's dedication to the contest!
Have the alternates ever been called upon to present round 2 material? In other words, are there any alternates with the (rpg superstar top 32) tag?
Have the alternates ever been called upon to present round 2 material? In other words, are there any alternates with the (rpg superstar top 32) tag?
I remember this at least happened in the first year. There was quite the kerfluffle too, since one of the items which was put into the top 32 was disqualified based on plagiarism. Honestly, I feel bad for the alternates. They are expected to do the same work, they have extra pressure on them with the 'will I won't I' situation, and in the end they probably won't get to proceed anyway.
I will totally take being an alternate, however!
Will preliminary emails be sent out for the complete and solid "reject" piles, so that they don't have to strain and sweat and freak out until the final 32 (+4) are chosen?
I don't mean all those temporarily in the "Keep" segment that you guys are now winnowing, I mean all those shed from the preliminary get-go that aren't even up for possible consideration.
I will totally take being an alternate, however!
Will preliminary emails be sent out for the complete and solid "reject" piles, so that they don't have to strain and sweat and freak out until the final 32 (+4) are chosen?
I don't mean all those temporarily in the "Keep" segment that you guys are now winnowing, I mean all those shed from the preliminary get-go that aren't even up for possible consideration.
I think that would be quite the undertaking given the ever increasing number of submitions.
Think of it like tryouts, you don't know whether you made the team or not until you see that sheet of names on the gym wall.
Speaking of coaching them- Ever think of doing an RPG Superstar contest like "The Voice"? Where each designer gets a couple of prospective designers and works with them through the competition, eventually winnowing the list down to the final one?
Probably Not
That's more of what I would figure, but I didn't know if there was some sort of automated "better luck next time" engine that if rejected would just send one out. Hence the question, though I'm expecting more or less what you said.
Also, I'm dyin' over hear! I want to know something! :)
EDIT: to clarify, as someone ninja'd me. :) Coaching sounds really neat, but really time-consuming. I'm not sure they'd be able to give that kind of effort to others. I'd love it if that was possible, though. It would be a great boon, I suspect, to the community at large.
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Russ Taylor was an alternate, I believe. And now he's everywhere.
Have the alternates ever been called upon to present round 2 material? In other words, are there any alternates with the (rpg superstar top 32) tag?I remember this at least happened in the first year. There was quite the kerfluffle too, since one of the items which was put into the top 32 was disqualified based on plagiarism. Honestly, I feel bad for the alternates. They are expected to do the same work, they have extra pressure on them with the 'will I won't I' situation, and in the end they probably won't get to proceed anyway.
Pedant time: just in the interests of historical accuracy, this is not 100% correct. Two entries were disqualified, yes, but not for plagiarism; both were accidentally allowed through in spite of being significantly over word count. (This being before there was an official word count tool in the submission form, and it was acknowledged that various word processing programs could have different word counts for the same text, so some leeway was given.)
There was one entry that... well, plagiarism is a strong word, I think, but it definitely did pretty much cut & paste it's mechanics from the SRD without rewriting them. The judges didn't recognize this until after the fact, though, so it was allowed through. It wasn't ever disqualified, though.
And for completeness' sake- that year there were six alternates, and altogether four of them advanced. The two aforementioned disqualifications, one guy chose to drop out, and another contestant failed to submit a round 2 entry on time.
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Has anyone asked if this is fun for you judges? I'm sure you do some eye-rolling during the first round, but do you guys also enjoy the content you receive?
It is an absolute blast. We are all designers--or at least Sean is, and Neil is a freelancer, and Ryan has historically done so, I am the lest impressive of the group from a resume standpoint and I appreciate they tolerate me--and being able to talk design with a serious group of true experts is a great joy. Plus, they just plain love this game and this contest and what it is about. The energy and excitement among the judges is tangible. It is really fun to be a part of, and we couldnt do it without the submissions. Yes, there is some occasional eye rolling but that is to be expected. I wouldnt do it if it wasn't fun. Plus it is supportive of Paizo, a company I very much care about.
Has anyone asked if this is fun for you judges? I'm sure you do some eye-rolling during the first round, but do you guys also enjoy the content you receive?It is an absolute blast. We are all designers--or at least Sean is, and Neil is a freelancer, and Ryan has historically done so, I am the lest impressive of the group from a resume standpoint and I appreciate they tolerate me--and being able to talk design with a serious group of true experts is a great joy. Plus, they just plain love this game and this contest and what it is about. The energy and excitement among the judges is tangible. It is really fun to be a part of, and we couldnt do it without the submissions. Yes, there is some occasional eye rolling but that is to be expected. I wouldnt do it if it wasn't fun. Plus it is supportive of Paizo, a company I very much care about.
Your resume includes demon lord, so it's not all that bad is it? Lol.
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Seeing the judges' enthusiasm has really opened my eyes to the potential in this contest and this community. Great ideas flourish best in a place where everyone is supportive and dedicated,
Seeing the judges' enthusiasm has really opened my eyes to the potential in this contest and this community. Great ideas flourish best in a place where everyone is supportive and dedicated,
Unquestionably correct sir, well put.
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Has anyone asked if this is fun for you judges? I'm sure you do some eye-rolling during the first round, but do you guys also enjoy the content you receive?
I certainly do! By staying involved with RPG Superstar, it's almost like the contest never ended for me. I get to go living vicariously through those who compete now. And, where possible, I hopefully get to give back to the contest and my fellow upcoming designers, some of whom I might get to work with...or become inspired by...once they too are writing for Paizo.
Clark has a thread mentioning the growth of the collective effort in the contest, what else do you and the other judges really like about judging (besides ultimate power/itty bitty cubicle space)?
I really like getting to analyze game design next to guys like Sean, Ryan, and Clark. We each view these wondrous items, along with the rules and tropes they touch upon, in different ways. And, as a result, I learn a lot from how the other judges approach their reviews. Sean especially is very good at breaking things down into why something is a bad idea...or why something is especially innovative. Where I may have a gut feeling that something is broken, he can usually cut straight to the heart of it and tell you why. And, learning those bits of insight have certainly helped me in my own designs.
Ryan too is an inspiration. It's a lot of fun to see his angle on things. He has a good eye not simply for what's broken mechanically, but also what's a downright marketable idea...and really, what's good or bad for the game.
Clark is in this same boat. He can sense "cool factor" and "mojo" better than just about anybody. He knows what will resonate with the gaming community. And he brings a level of enthusiasm to everything which I find very infectious.
So, what I really like about judging the contest is the interaction with the judges, the competitors, and the gaming community-at-large. It's an interesting platform from which to view the industry. And my own education as a designer gets to continue as a result of this unique opportunity.
Tis is the first time I have entered this contest, if you can't say/reveal that the item you entered is yours, how do you prove it is yours if it wins? How you know if it wins? When can you talk about it? Is there anyway to find out if the item got rejected by now?
Your questions in order, as I know the answers:
For the first: once the item is accepted in the top 32 (+6), I believe it's revealed who created it (with their picture published and everything, if I understand correctly from the old threads). This is possibly not shown until after you get into the top eight, however. Reading the old archives wasn't completely clear on that.
For the second: email happens. If you don't have email, I'd say keep a sharp eye on these forums.
For the third: after the decision making is done, I think (possibly after the final voting, as with the first question). Basically after you can't sway someone by being known to be you.
For the fourth: I'd like to know that myself, but I believe that we're just going to have to wait until the 24th to know if we pass/failed this puppy.
Tis is the first time I have entered this contest, if you can't say/reveal that the item you entered is yours, how do you prove it is yours if it wins?
You Paizo account indicates that the item belongs to you. While, the judges don't get to see that information, rest assured that the powers-that-be at Paizo (namely, Gary, Ross, Vic, etc.) have insight into that information.
How you know if it wins?
The Paizo technical team will use the email address in your Paizo account to notify you if you make the Top 32. If you need to update your email address (because it's changed or something), now would be a good time to do that. You should also make sure you Paizo account was opened using your real name. I'm not talking about your avatar name. You can make that whatever you want. But, last year, there were a couple of folks who made the Top 32 who didn't have this information up-to-date and it caused some costernation, because Paizo couldn't identify/notify them. Eventually, they put out a call reminding everyone to update their account info. And, both individuals did so.
Additionally, another way to to know if you've made it, is to check the main RPG Superstar page on Jan. 24th. Once the Top 32 "goes live," there'll be a massive update that lists everyone's real names/locations and their items. Each item will also have its own discussion thread and they become open to the public so everyone can share their reactions/commentary/feedback for the designer.
When can you talk about it?
As soon as the Top 32 are announced, you can talk about your item. You can even do so directly in the thread where your item appears and everyone else is commenting there on it. You can also discuss your item if didn't make the Top 32. There's always a "Critique My Item" thread that gets started where folks share their item and request feedback, both from the judges and the community-at-large.
Is there anyway to find out if the item got rejected by now?
No. All items remain anonymous until the judges have selected the Top 32. You'll have to wait until Jan. 24th when the announcement goes up.
The items are linked with the creators' (real) names when the top 32 are revealed. While they're anonymous for the judges at this point, the folks behind the scenes can see who submitted them.
I believe you can talk about the item as soon as it's published, though there may be some rules about that that I'm not aware of (I believe the creators will also furiously be working on the next round).
I know in subsequent rounds, you're not allowed to lobby for votes, so they STRONGLY recommend using a template that basically thanks people for voting and saying you'll discuss it after voting is finished (if you look at some of last year's votes, you'll see the designers often went back and talked about their process later). Looking at items (and then later rounds) from previous years, you can see how the creators respond.
I don't believe there's any way to know an item's status until you see the top 32 (and the alternates) posted. Only they will get an email telling them they've moved on in the contest.
I seem to recall that if you are in the top 32, you could post in your item thread a simple wow, thanks, etc, i.e. some sort of limitation on what you could or couldn't say.
So, if you make top 32, I would be very careful and clarify before posting anything more than a "gee thanks".
There's no restriction on commenting for the initial selection round. Obviously, you can't talk about your next round's assignment. And, if you make the Top 32, you should be focused on that, rather than hamming it up overly much with all the well-wishers.
In later rounds, we lock it down a lot more. That's because 1) we want to test designers on how well they can keep quiet as if working under a non-disclosure agreement (NDA), and 2) we want to make sure designers can't sway voters by explaining all the nuances to their design or their intentions (i.e., their work needs to speak for itself, exactly like it would if it appeared in a product someone bought off the shelf).
Once the voting for each round is over, contestants can generally circle back and comment on their prior round's work, if they want to. For many however, you'll find that time better spent focusing on your work for the next round. Also, keep in mind that everything you say and post during this competition will shape everyone's perception of you. And, that can sometimes be a boon or a bane as far as the voting goes. As in life, it all depends on how you conduct yourself.
Neil,
Thanks for taking so much time to explain so many facets of this competition; as a first time participant (with no exposure to the contest until two weeks ago...) I have found your frequent, in-depth comments invaluable.
Thanks, too, to all the veterans who have been so supportive of us noobs. It's really cool to be part of a contest where people are actively trying to help their competition- I think its really a testament to the quality of the Paizo community.
here's the honest truth--most of us are already gone but don't know it yet.
Yes, but hope springs eternal.
here's the honest truth--most of us are already gone but don't know it yet.
Like Bruce Willis in The Sixth Sense. D:
Like Bruce Willis in The Sixth Sense. D:
DUDE SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! SPOILER ALERT?!?!?!?!?!onequestionmarkone!?!?!?!
(nah, I'm just kiddin' ;D)
Like Bruce Willis in The Sixth Sense. D:DUDE SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! SPOILER ALERT?!?!?!?!?!onequestionmarkone!?!?!?!
(nah, I'm just kiddin' ;D)
My friend made this reference last night, and I hadn't seen the movie yet. I guess that's my fault it's been out forever.
here's the honest truth--most of us are already gone but don't know it yet.
Heheheh. It's Superstar of the Living Dead.
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My friend made this reference last night, and I hadn't seen the movie yet. I guess that's my fault it's been out forever.Like Bruce Willis in The Sixth Sense. D:DUDE SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! SPOILER ALERT?!?!?!?!?!onequestionmarkone!?!?!?!
(nah, I'm just kiddin' ;D)
Rosebud was his sled.
My friend made this reference last night, and I hadn't seen the movie yet. I guess that's my fault it's been out forever.Like Bruce Willis in The Sixth Sense. D:DUDE SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! SPOILER ALERT?!?!?!?!?!onequestionmarkone!?!?!?!
(nah, I'm just kiddin' ;D)Rosebud was his sled.
There goes another movie spoiled.
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Question on voting?
Uh, I have a few friends I know are new to the forums or are hoping to join soon (because I am convincing them to join a Pathfinder Society game). If I by some chance made it to a voting round could they vote too or is it limited somehow? How new is too new for potential voters? I know asking for votes and so on is obviously not allowed but if someone has friends through social network or somesuch following them in the contest and they create an account simply to vote is this controlled somehow?
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
,
Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8
aka WalterGM
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There goes another movie spoiled.My friend made this reference last night, and I hadn't seen the movie yet. I guess that's my fault it's been out forever.Like Bruce Willis in The Sixth Sense. D:DUDE SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! SPOILER ALERT?!?!?!?!?!onequestionmarkone!?!?!?!
(nah, I'm just kiddin' ;D)Rosebud was his sled.
Penny Arcade has some thoughts on this...
Question on voting?
Uh, I have a few friends I know are new to the forums or are hoping to join soon (because I am convincing them to join a Pathfinder Society game). If I by some chance made it to a voting round could they vote too or is it limited somehow? How new is too new for potential voters? I know asking for votes and so on is obviously not allowed but if someone has friends through social network or somesuch following them in the contest and they create an account simply to vote is this controlled somehow?
I have a large family. All of my sibs are married. Some of the nieces and nephews have their own email account. I plan to ask all of them too join Paizo's boards to vote. :)
To be fair I have asked most of them to join previously, but few of them game so I doubt they did. :)
EDIT (see Sean's post): My fam could almost fall into that 50 slot... Funny I think shenanigans is how my parents refer to gaming :)
Aislian, as long as it's one vote per person, we're pretty tolerant about the "newness" of someone's Paizo.com account. But if it looks like there are shenanigans going on (as in, "how strange, 50 people all signed up in the past 3 days to vote for Bob"), we'll investigate and take appropriate action.
Have the alternates ever been called upon to present round 2 material? In other words, are there any alternates with the (rpg superstar top 32) tag?I remember this at least happened in the first year. There was quite the kerfluffle too, since one of the items which was put into the top 32 was disqualified based on plagiarism. Honestly, I feel bad for the alternates. They are expected to do the same work, they have extra pressure on them with the 'will I won't I' situation, and in the end they probably won't get to proceed anyway.Pedant time: just in the interests of historical accuracy, this is not 100% correct. Two entries were disqualified, yes, but not for plagiarism; both were accidentally allowed through in spite of being significantly over word count. (This being before there was an official word count tool in the submission form, and it was acknowledged that various word processing programs could have different word counts for the same text, so some leeway was given.)
There was one entry that... well, plagiarism is a strong word, I think, but it definitely did pretty much cut & paste it's mechanics from the SRD without rewriting them. The judges didn't recognize this until after the fact, though, so it was allowed through. It wasn't ever disqualified, though.
And for completeness' sake- that year there were six alternates, and altogether four of them advanced. The two aforementioned disqualifications, one guy chose to drop out, and another contestant failed to submit a round 2 entry on time.
I dinnae think we knew what the contest was about the first year. Since then everyone who has entered has at least some expectation of getting a writing gig. Since the first year, no alternates have been required.
I can tell you the 'extra work' was worth it just to have a Ed Greenwood and Clark say 'I recommend this villain' continue :) I still have the email :)|
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Aislian, as long as it's one vote per person, we're pretty tolerant about the "newness" of someone's Paizo.com account. But if it looks like there are shenanigans going on (as in, "how strange, 50 people all signed up in the past 3 days to vote for Bob"), we'll investigate and take appropriate action.
Good to know! If I make it to the next round I will have to get my friends to sign up!
Penny Arcade has some thoughts on this...There goes another movie spoiled.My friend made this reference last night, and I hadn't seen the movie yet. I guess that's my fault it's been out forever.Like Bruce Willis in The Sixth Sense. D:DUDE SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! SPOILER ALERT?!?!?!?!?!onequestionmarkone!?!?!?!
(nah, I'm just kiddin' ;D)Rosebud was his sled.
. . . Wait. Jesus dies?!?! Three in a row.
I should probably be up to date on movies, but I'm just not.
Hmm, PMG was testing out the polling code a few weeks ago. Coincidence?
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Thanks, Clark and Neil, your vitality and excitement for the process does shine through; I must say I appreciate the transparency of the contest and the access the community has to the panel. I think Sean's thread is a great tool for anyone trying their hand at game design, even beyond the RPGSS.
Oh, and
Finkel is Einhorn- and Einhorn is Finkel. :)
Chief Technical Officer
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Hmm, PMG was testing out the polling code a few weeks ago. Coincidence?
Yep. That was for this.
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Two entries were disqualified, yes, but not for plagiarism; both were accidentally allowed through in spite of being significantly over word count. (This being before there was an official word count tool in the submission form, and it was acknowledged that various word processing programs could have different word counts for the same text, so some leeway was given.)
Hmm, fwiw, I don't remember seeing it display a word count when I entered, but maybe I just missed it in my excitement.
But, for next time, where is it on the submission form*?
(in case Word somehow miscalculated it for all of the 3567 times I checked and re-checked it in my paranoia of going over...)
You have to enter a title for your post in the submission form. Then, hit the Preview button. Then, look up at the header for your post...not the body text...the header. Your word count will appear right beside the title of your item submission.
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You have to enter a title for your post in the submission form. Then, hit the Preview button. Then, look up at the header for your post...not the body text...the header. Your word count will appear right beside the title of your item submission.
Thanks Neil, I never noticed it, but I'll look next time (either next round--hopefully, or next year...)
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here's the honest truth--most of us are already gone but don't know it yet.Like Bruce Willis in The Sixth Sense. D:
...Bruce Willis' character was an aspiring game designer? Crap! Now it ALL makes sense! The red door led to the basement gaming room, undoubtedly with some kind of epic gaming table. His wife WASN'T a gamer, so she was getting pissed that he was spending so much time writing up dungeons. And Donnie Wahlberg was obviously an emotionally unstable ex-player who'd lost it when his character got killed off, a la Black Leaf from 'Dark Dungeons'!
...Bruce Willis' character was an aspiring game designer? Crap! Now it ALL makes sense! The red door led to the basement gaming room, undoubtedly with some kind of epic gaming table. His wife WASN'T a gamer, so she was getting pissed that he was spending so much time writing up dungeons. And Donnie Wahlberg was obviously an emotionally unstable ex-player who'd lost it when his character got killed off, a la Black Leaf from 'Dark Dungeons'!here's the honest truth--most of us are already gone but don't know it yet.Like Bruce Willis in The Sixth Sense. D:
lol :)
Out of curiosity - roughly how many submissions were there this year?
The judges don't divulge the actual numbers. More than last year, we know that much.
I wonder if as you guys "winnowed" if you ever got a submission whose prose or concept was so distinct that you thought to yourselves, "I bet user X submitted this one!"
Of course, it's no danger to anonymity, but I imagine it would be satisfying to guess at the author of an item and end up being right!