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So, in my last campaign one of our players had a 6 Wisdom score. I offered to let him reroll the stat, but since he was playing a Sorcerer it was an (arguably) unimportant ability, and he thought it would be fun to play the negative.
But he was also quite intelligent. It was his second highest stat (after Charisma, of course) so the character wouldn't outwardly appear stupid.
Now, low intelligence to me seems pretty easy to play. Act dumb as a box of rocks. Low Charisma? There's a couple of different ways to go with it, but it's easy enough to accomplish when you have the character design down.
But Wisdom is so much more subtle. So, how would you properly play a character with a high Intelligence yet low Wisdom score? What would be different in their interactions?
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I play them as naive and romantic. Have a bard and sorceress both in the same boat. Good characters, smart, just... have a little softer view of the world. Have problems recognizing moral gray, and going out of their comfort zones in terms of actions.
For example, big turning point for my bard just last session was accepting that to do good, evil people are going to have to die. And evil people dying is okay, killing evil people is okay, even, if it means you and yours survive to continue to struggle with being good above all else.
You've met people with low wisdom. they tend to be VERY trusting and naive. They lack "common sense."
Extreme examples:
High Int/Low wis=Very smart, but has no idea how to tie their shoes.
Low Int/High Wis= Doesnt really understand how stuff works, but has a preverbal sixth sense about stuff. "I have a bad feeling about putting this fork into a light socket, but I'm not sure why."
High Charisma/Low Wis and low Int: Supermodels or the pretty, but dumb girl from "Mean Girls." (her name escapes me).
...A character with high Intelligence but low Wisdom may be smart but absentminded, or knowledgeable but lacking in common sense... A character with a low Wisdom score may be rash, imprudent, irresponsible, or "out of it.
The rundown on pg 10 is one I use as a guideline. It has a decent write up of high and low mental stats all together.
I personally might play the High Int low Wis as a very book smart but naive person. Maybe very trusting or gullible, but that's just how I see it, and I might do it differently based on the character.
I go with trusting, willing to take people at face value. And a great lack of impulse control. They think of something to do ~ and do it. It's the Wisdom that lets you think through your course of action.
I play a wizard with high intelligence and charisma but low wisdom (Wis 9 but I like to play it as lower than that).
He is an excitable, teenage, know-it-all. Rash enough to put up an Adventurers Wanted Advertisement, to 'borrow' his father's things, and head off looking for adventure.
Smart enough to know that one of his father's acquittance has shady dealings, low enough in wisdom to think he can seek him out for 'job', high enough charisma to attract a group of adventurers to work with him.
Not enough wisdom to realise he has created a nice scenario for mutiny.
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Absent-minded professor is one high INT low WIS archetype. This is the person who is brilliant but struggles in the real world because of lack of savvy or common sense. The kind of person about whom people say,"He's so smart, I can't believe he puts his pants on backwards." Or perhaps the intellectual who is oblivious to the world around him because his head is always buried in a book. Or perhaps someone who is mildly or moderately autistic, extremely intelligent but imperceptive because he is lives in his own insular world. Another might be an arrogant intellectual who is oblivious to the world around him because he is so self-absorbed and caught up in his feelings of superiority. Religious or political fanatic is another possibility, someone highly intelligent but extremely pig-headed and narrow-minded, too small-minded to see any points of view but his own.
one thing I found works is I'n any given situation do the first thing that occurs to you wether its a good idea or not.
one thing I found works is I'n any given situation do the first thing that occurs to you wether its a good idea or not.
Yup. This exactly. Don't think things through = low wisdom.
I played a low Wisdom character once, and by low, I think his Wisdom clocked in around a 6 or a 7. We were doing the Tomb of Horrors.
I doubt I will ever live that character death down.
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There are at least two ways to go about this, I think.
One way is to consider the meaning of "wisdom" and play the character as foolish. (After all, being foolish is quite compatible with lacking wisdom.) There are many ways to do this: be overzealous in the face of danger, be trusting of those whom one should not trust, fail to accumulate one's experiences into a whole (i.e. not learn from your own past), be utterly naive.
The other way, and this accords well with the existing in-game rules, is to be unobservant. Since Wisdom is associated with Perception, it seems that the character with a low Wisdom will tend to be oblivious to things that others readily notice.
I've always had a problem with one stat serving to fulfill both the role of the description of a sage and the description of the highly observant, as I don't understand the two to be connected. Alas, that is the system we have.
Dave
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Read these boards for a week straight. In that period of time you'll have accumulated enough Wisdom damage to do it properly.
But Wisdom is so much more subtle. So, how would you properly play a character with a high Intelligence yet low Wisdom score? What would be different in their interactions?
See ? The wisdom damage already begins !
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Just go with the absolute first idea you get. DOn't think about it, don't consider it, the first thing that pops in your head just go with i
shiney
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Make him an optimist.
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Thing about Int, Wis, and Cha is that, in real life, they can help boost each other up. For instance, a smart person can use his understanding of physics to make better decisions about touching hot water, etc. An experienced, intuitive person can quickly catch on to matters of intellect as they are being explained to him (can "get it" without knowing the science).
Same is sort of true in the game, though there you have the opportunity to exaggerate it all.
We had a player in the game who for a long time treated Wisdom as the crap stat. No matter what else his build; rogue, fighter, whatever; he always took a low Wisdom. Sometimes his character was of average intelligence, sometimes low. Often, he just dumped all three intellectual stats.
He played it to the hilt: grabbed things he ought not grab, ran ahead of the party into dark dungeon rooms, said the wrong thing at the wrong time, smacked city officials in the face. I think what was key when his character had average Int with the low Wis, was that he was impulsive. If given the time, he could make a good decision. He could reason it out. But he often did not take that time; instead acting without thinking.
So I think that's the trick: a dichotomy; good decisions in calm moments, but rash, impulsive actions in the heat of the moment.
'Buys lots of lottery tickets'. I would have thought that it was INT that made you good at understanding the odds...
There's no one right answer for high-INT-low-WIS. For example, you could try playing him as an autistic savant. Good with numbers, but no Sense Motive because he doesn't understand other people. Though that would probably imply low charisma as well, which isn't very Sorceror.
'Buys lots of lottery tickets'. I would have thought that it was INT that made you good at understanding the odds...
There's no one right answer for high-INT-low-WIS. For example, you could try playing him as an autistic savant. Good with numbers, but no Sense Motive because he doesn't understand other people. Though that would probably imply low charisma as well, which isn't very Sorceror.
Yes, but as some of us have been saying, low Wisdom can be a cause of impulsiveness. Even gambling addicts can begin as great statisticians. Their ability to calculate does not necessarily mitigate their desire to feel the thrill of gambling. Low Wisdom causes them to give in to the impulse. So can a weak personality (Cha), but either way is just as explainable as the other.
There's no ONE right answer for high-INT-low-WIS, because there are plenty of good, acceptable answers to go around.
A low wisdom character is oblivious to the world. They have no common sense, or if they do its very misguided. Think Mr Magoo. -6 to perception checks will do that to you.
Edit - another possibility to is play someone who has no sense of self preservation, such as a thief who can't help but steal even when the cards are stacked against him/her.
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There are at least two ways to go about this, I think.
One way is to consider the meaning of "wisdom" and play the character as foolish. (After all, being foolish is quite compatible with lacking wisdom.) There are many ways to do this: be overzealous in the face of danger, be trusting of those whom one should not trust, fail to accumulate one's experiences into a whole (i.e. not learn from your own past), be utterly naive.
The other way, and this accords well with the existing in-game rules, is to be unobservant. Since Wisdom is associated with Perception, it seems that the character with a low Wisdom will tend to be oblivious to things that others readily notice.
I've always had a problem with one stat serving to fulfill both the role of the description of a sage and the description of the highly observant, as I don't understand the two to be connected. Alas, that is the system we have.
Dave
My favorite answer.
Wisdom is the ability to learn from your mistakes and experiences in the world (thus the perception connection). An unwise character is one who will ignore reality or be oblivious to it, and be similarly oblivious to consequences.
Paired with a high INT, this obliviousness is likely to manifest as a preoccupation with working out some problem, and when reality comes knocking, it is perceived as an interruption. The most expedient method of stopping the interruption will be taken so he can get back to his thoughts.
Paired with a high CHA, this obliviousness is probably due to a preoccupation with one's self-image, presenting as vanity, arrogance or pride (depending on how the CHA is being roleplayed). He may suffer from a belief that since he's so great reality doesn't apply to him.
Think Napoleon. A calculating, charismatic leader with tunnelvision.
Playing a sorcerer you use the scroll of sunburst to take out the vampire... with your whole party within range of the spell too.
About two sessions ago. My Barbarian was subject to a poisonous gas in a coffined in a air tight room which kept hitting his wisdom which normally was actually pretty high and his Int wasn't to shabby either but got reduce down to 1. The way that we handled it was that my character was easily suggestible and would make more brash choices.
I like to think of it as very 'Doctor Who-ish' EXTREMELY intelligent... Knows just about everything... Doesn't always put the pieces together to quickly. Misses the 'big picture' pretty easily.
Looking at the AMAZING scenery and not recognizing the actual 'danger' that they're in :)
The kind of guy that will get the BBEG monologing and then be genuinely suprised whenhe draws a weapon...
I like to think of it as very 'Doctor Who-ish' EXTREMELY intelligent... Knows just about everything... Doesn't always put the pieces together to quickly. Misses the 'big picture' pretty easily.
Looking at the AMAZING scenery and not recognizing the actual 'danger' that they're in :)
The kind of guy that will get the BBEG monologing and then be genuinely suprised whenhe draws a weapon...
mmmmmm. I've never known The Doctor to miss "the big picture". He's so big picture, that he seems to not notice anything. Also, a lot of what he does is an act, to make people underestimate him. Matt Smith's version of the character is incredibly alien, and has perhaps a lower charisma than some of the previous incarnations, but he's capable of picking out minute details on an object he looked at for maybe a split second from memory. That to me implies an absurdly high perception check.
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Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. Do what seems smart without understanding the consequences. I would keep it to a minimum so you don't wipe out the party with foolish ideas.
Thanks everyone. This was very helpful and entertaining. I will be setting out on my first Pathfinder adventure. I so appreciate your wisdom! ha!
Look, we really do need to go get the McGuffin from the castle, because if we don't, Sylvia Sorceress is going to summon a high level dem... oooh, cinabons!! I haven't had Cinabons in MONTHS! Let's go in! Please please?!?!
No, I don't want to get going, I want CInabons! Now quit trying to talk me out of them, you're just jealous that I can eat them without gaining an ounce and you can't! It's because I have a high metabolism!
Ooh, these are really really good! This was such a good idea. Ok, so we really should get going, we really need to get after Sylvia, and we're behind schedule thanks to you arguing with me earlier. So, I was thinking, Sylvia's biggest weakness is that she's overconfident, I should know, she's my sister, and I grew up with her. I know absolutely how we can thwart her plans, and there won't even need to be a fight. All we have to do is go get her... oooh! Look at that robe! It's so absolutely perfect for me! It shows off my legs too! Let's go! I have to have it now!
So, like I was saying, all we have to do to stop Sylvia is.. hey, what's that demon shaped shadow on the ground? EEK!
Look, we really do need to go get the McGuffin from the castle, because if we don't, Sylvia Sorceress is going to summon a high level dem... oooh, cinabons!! I haven't had Cinabons in MONTHS! Let's go in! Please please?!?! [/ooc]
That is practically the exact way I play my low wisdom sorcerers. Perfectly normal, until some different stimuli presents itself, then its off track for a little bit.
The best term I can think of for how one is supposed to play a low wisdom character is how naive they are. The best way explained to me was that Intelligence was your book smarts and how things work according to theories. Your wisdom is the experience you have actually gained when dealing people, places, and things.
Hey! I'm playing a low wisdom and decent int character! I play him as he is smart, but he isn't good at remembering things so he only has 12 int. He got 7 wisdom because he is still young, only 16. The past 11 years of his live was nothing but learn about bar-tending as he was going to take over the bar industry of his family, and train with polearm because he likes it and it was the deal between him and his rich parents. Every morning, he train with the soldiers that work under his family's private arms, which his older brother was going to take over. Every night, he learn how to manage the bar, work as bartender, and visit different tavern, bar, inn, brothel and restaurant that is belong to his family. He had been doing the same thing over and over again for the pass 11 years, so he understand so little about the world and doesn't understand how others are thinking. Polearm tactics and bar management was all he knew.
Up until his older brother died, that's when his wisdom dropped even lower. He started to have problem control his emotions sometimes, he hate to lose people he cares for so much he sometime would even kill them himself if they risk their lives for stupidity like try to ride a bull after shooting it and hope don't get charged straight into the head. He doesn't have awareness of his surrounding and what's going on as much as others, and he has problem expressing himself. He sometime still takes like a kid when he can't piece his words together, which was due to the fact that he spend all his youth focusing on polearm and working for parents. He hates working for parents, but he did it because he had to, so he only has low ranks in profession bartending.
I hope my character would be a decent example of a low wis character.
Oh, another example. My character was trying to talk to things under the water by putting his head in it, he thought it would work because his int tells him sound travels through water. But he did have the common sense of we blow air out as we speak, so he ended up blowing bubbles.
Hope that one helps too.
So, in my last campaign one of our players had a 6 Wisdom score. I offered to let him reroll the stat, but since he was playing a Sorcerer it was an (arguably) unimportant ability, and he thought it would be fun to play the negative.
But he was also quite intelligent. It was his second highest stat (after Charisma, of course) so the character wouldn't outwardly appear stupid.
Now, low intelligence to me seems pretty easy to play. Act dumb as a box of rocks. Low Charisma? There's a couple of different ways to go with it, but it's easy enough to accomplish when you have the character design down.
But Wisdom is so much more subtle. So, how would you properly play a character with a high Intelligence yet low Wisdom score? What would be different in their interactions?
Penny-wise and pound-foolish.
Mad scientist. Brilliant but aloof.
Socially impaired. Not low charisma, but an inability to sense the motives of others.
Gullible.
There are a ton of ways to do this.
It's actually one of the most fun high-low mental combos in the game, I think.
Make him an addict of some substance or other. Maybe something that makes him smarter temporarily, or more charismatic like elven absnthe. He could just be thinking he's smart enough to control his usage, and charismatic enough to get others to partake.
Exercise poor impulse control.
I have an archaeologist bard with high int and cha, but low wis. He's great at getting ideas and making plans (int), but terrible at figuring out the consequences (wis). He's very sure of himself and his plans (cha), so he tries to force them upon others or just starts without asking. Great fun.
Ultimate low wisdom, a lady Sorcerer that walked up to the city gate as we approached it and said, "Where is the nearest Castle that we can rape, pillage, and plunder?" Utter inability to understand the meaning of consequences. Walked into a bar, on the run, and needing to decompress, and when some random noble made a pass at her, she nailed him with an acid arrow, and then told the bartender that he needed to clean up the mess, because the guy was stinking up the place.
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Any way you want.
The ability scores, especially the mental ones, are aggregate numbers attempting to quantify the unquantifiable. As such, it is impossible to make any real benchmarks for 'appropriate' behavior based on them.
I'd probably just go with the not so perceptive type. Doesn't even have to be accidental imperceptive type either. They could just be focusing on something not really important such as rolling a coin on the knuckles, reading a book, studying nearby moths.
Although, this might be best mixed with the occasional not-so-wise decision making mentioned above as well.
Zhayne makes a good point though. Perhaps just let the player try his hand (unless he asked you for suggestions on how to RP it) and see if how he decides to play it.
For instance, a really low INT doesn't necessarily mean in game mechanics terms that they can't make intelligent decisions, read or speak well. It more means that they'll have a really hard time with INT related rolls. I don't see why one has to be compelled to play the character as a mindless oaf. Same goes for WIS really. Yeah, he'll have really rough WIS rolls and any saves connected to it, but it doesn't mean he can't make wise decisions.
That being said, I offered some ideas and there are loads of good ones above as well if they truly want to RP the low WIS.
I would consider myself a high int low wis person in real life, so I prefer to play characters of that sort. I was a cliche knowledge hungry wizard who encountered a Chuul. My intelligence told me that it would probably speak Aklo, maybe some related language, so I asked if it could understand me in Aklo, then Aquan, then Draconic, then Infernal and Abyssal... I kept prattling off languages to the GM. One of my fellow players walked up and said, "could you please let us pass?" The chuul said something along the lines of "mmk." I forgot to try asking in common (the common sense answer). THAT is high int low wis playing.
Personally, I would RP a high INT/low WIS character as someone who is arrogant, naive, impulsive, and somewhat oblivious. Really play up the angle that this is someone who believes that they are always correct and struggles with even the notion that their judgments could be erroneous.
After all Socrates tells us that Wisdom begins with admitting ones own ignorance, so a high intelligence/low wisdom character should be largely blind to his or her own ignorance.
I'd play a low wis character as a naive, stubborn, brash person--they leap before they look and tend to jump to conclusions prematurely, always assuming the best (or worst) of those they meet until forced to acknowledge otherwise (and even then).