The PFS DPR Olympics 12th level challenge reboot -- Squishies welcome!


Advice

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Wonderstell wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
That pteranodon is only going to hit half the time with an attack bonus of +19.
But absolutely nothing in those two builds is dependent on those attacks hitting.

Paired Opportunists? ...if you're not using it, it sounds like you have feat-slot room.

Aside from that, you're forfeiting a lot of potential DPR with a 50% miss rate from your animal companion.


Slim Jim wrote:

Paired Opportunists? ...if you're not using it, it sounds like you have feat-slot room.

Aside from that, you're forfeiting a lot of potential DPR with a 50% miss rate from your animal companion.

The feat plainly says that an opponent that provokes an AoO from me also provokes from my ally.

Nothing about succeeding on the attack roll.

Hell, my AC could even choose to not take the AoO and I would still get an AoO. That's what makes the feat so valuable.


I was referring to enjoying the use of the feat on the mount's turn, when and if it hits, triggering AoOs from you.


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Slim Jim wrote:
I was referring to enjoying the use of the feat on the mount's turn, when and if it hits, triggering AoOs from you.

Ooooh, yeah that makes sense.

I could have chosen Triceratops with the Beast Master feat, as it both has a gore attack and 10 ft reach.
But I felt that a fly speed would be preferable in the long run.

My Pteranodon has a 2.5% chance of critting (giving us both another AoO), which could be raised further.

Make it take Spirit Oni Master with the 5th feat, then buy MWK Tusk Blades and a Keen AoMF.

This would cost me 4,400 gp but will raise my AC's crit chance to 11%.


PFS GM: "Waitaminute... You're *flying* this thing on Combat Patrol, right? Not hopping around on the ground with its listed 10' move speed?"

Player: "Uh, yes?"

PFS GM: "I can put up with your noodly Longarms improbably being capable of delivering bull-rushes without you having to put your weight behind it like a real dwarf -- because magic is woo -- but regular physics also does exist in this world at the mundane level. If you Shield Slam and Bull Rush a target on the ground, guess what happens to you, up in the air, hovering around? I'm ruling you knock yourself backward by twice the amount you shove because the monster digs in its claws while you're unanchored."

Player: "But..."

PFS GM: "I might also audit your character's weight and delay the game while I refresh my memory as to what that does to an overly-encumbered flying mount's movement or Fly DCs. Most 'roid-raging half-orcs I personally know weigh considerably in excess of 133lbs, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because you're a little scrawny at only 24 strength."


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Slim Jim wrote:

PFS GM: "Waitaminute... You're *flying* this thing on Combat Patrol, right? Not hopping around on the ground with its listed 10' move speed?"

Player: "Uh, yes?"

PFS GM: "I can put up with your noodly Longarms improbably being capable of delivering bull-rushes without you having to put your weight behind it like a real dwarf -- because magic is woo -- but regular physics also does exist in this world at the mundane level. If you Shield Slam and Bull Rush a target on the ground, guess what happens to you, up in the air, hovering around? I'm ruling you knock yourself backward by twice the amount you shove because the monster digs in its claws while you're unanchored."

Player: "But..." Then it lands before I bull rush, flies in position, lands, and repeat.

And going by that logic, then all attacks while flying would result in being knocked back. So I'd ask you to refrain from implementing your houserules in this PFS legal game, thank you very much.

Slim Jim wrote:

PFS GM: "I might also audit your character's weight and delay the game while I refresh my memory as to what that does to an overly-encumbered flying mount's movement or Fly DCs. Most 'roid-raging half-orcs I personally know weigh considerably in excess of 133lbs, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because you're a little scrawny at only 24 strength."

Player: Please do, but keep in mind that my Pteranodon is large which means it can carry 266lbs.

I also just realized that since shields don't have reach, the Bull Rush build would require both Enlarge Person+Long Arm to get those AoO's. Or Construced Pugilist instead of Mutagenic Mauler for the Limb Extender modification.


Wonderstell wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
PFS GM: "I can put up with your noodly Longarms improbably being capable of delivering bull-rushes without you having to put your weight behind it like a real dwarf -- because magic is woo -- but regular physics also does exist in this world at the mundane level. If you Shield Slam and Bull Rush a target on the ground, guess what happens to you, up in the air, hovering around? I'm ruling you knock yourself backward by twice the amount you shove because the monster digs in its claws while you're unanchored."
Player: "But..." Then it lands before I bull rush, flies in position, lands, and repeat.
PFS GM: "Either it's your turn, or it's your mount's turn. You may interleave its attacks of opportunity from Combat Patrol or any other AoO trigger as normal, but it doesn't get free off-turn movement to pogostick in perfect synchronicity to set up your full-attack sequence without possessing feats or items granting that capacity...if any such exist."
Quote:
And going by that logic, then all attacks while flying would result in being knocked back. So I'd ask you to refrain from implementing your houserules in this PFS legal game, thank you very much.
PFS GM: "You're not a peregrine falcon stooping on a pigeon at 200mph, you're a hovering object imparting enough force to move an 800lbs opponent 5'. Newton's third law: 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction'."
Quote:
my Pteranodon is large which means it can carry 266lbs.

PFS GM: "Duly noted. ...with a Dex of 12, I assume you're wearing full-plate? And the mount has double-weight light barding? Tell you what: Nevermind. Let's just skip it for now and finish this encounter so we can get out of here by 6. Mark any corrections later to your inventory and chronicle sheets."


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Quote:
PFS GM: "Duly noted. ...with a Dex of 12, I assume you're wearing full-plate? And the mount has double-weight light barding? Tell you what: Nevermind. Let's just skip it for now and finish this encounter so we can get out of here by 6. Mark any corrections later to your inventory and chronicle sheets."

I fly in the nude, and lost my legs in a horrific papercut accident some time ago.

Obviously.

***

Reposition Math:
Okay, so the Reposition build has harsh math since you have a 50.075% chance to critically hit and gain two AoO's with each hit.

This can chain, so with Mythic Combat Reflexes we'd literally have (theoretical) infinite damage.
But as it is, the expected damage of any strike is dependent on how many AoO's you have left on your turn.

The following calculations are treating my crit chance (and chance of normal damage) as 50% sharp, for easier math.

X is the number of Attack of Opportunities left during your turn.
Y is the expected damage of a critical hit in addition to the normal 2x damage multiplier.

X......Y

2 = 3
4 = 5.25
6 = 7.125
8 = 8.766
10 = 10.24
12 = 11.60
14 = 12.85

For every two additional AoO's after two, you add a value equal to [the last value added multiplied by (#-1/#)], where # is the total number of AoO's.

So for # = 4, that's [3 * (3/4)]
and for # = 6, that's [3 * (3/4) * (5/6)]
And so on.

I'm sure there's a formula to calculate the total value, but I can't remember it at the moment.

*********************

So if I make a standard action attack, and have all my fourteen AoO's, the expected damage multiplier is:

(AoO Value+2) * [Crit Chance] + 1 * [Normal dmg Chance]
=
(12.85+2) * 0.5 + 1 * 0.5
=
7.925

***

So in Round 1, my first AoO has an average damage of 260.
The second AoO has an average damage dependent on how many AoO's was used during the first, with 180 being the average of the two extremum.

So for the reposition build, the new average dmg during round 1+2 should be around 1450.

If we add in the 11% chance to crit from the AC's gore attack as described four posts above, this should rise to 1550~.


Quote:
"You're not a peregrine falcon stooping on a pigeon at 200mph, you're a hovering object imparting enough force to move an 800lbs opponent 5'. Newton's third law: 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction'."

You seem to have forgotten about Newton's little known Fourth Law. It states that D&D is an abstraction and there's a difference between scrutiny and outright houseruling things, and a PFS DM is meant to NOT House Rule but to run the game within the RAW.

If this was a home game thread, the laws of physics stuff would make more sense, but this is a thread concerning a PFS DPR race. It will be silly no matter what you do, because DPR races inevitably are showcases of extremism within builds, especially when minimum defensive benchmarks are thrown out the window for the sake of raw DPR.

-----

On the note of bull rush builds: I saw some really funny gloves the other day: these ones. Gauntlets of Giant Fist. Might they be used for some sort of shenanigans?

(Another forumgoer showed them to me in a Bull Rush related thread.)

Liberty's Edge

TheVillageIdiot wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
"You're not a peregrine falcon stooping on a pigeon at 200mph, you're a hovering object imparting enough force to move an 800lbs opponent 5'. Newton's third law: 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction'."
You seem to have forgotten about Newton's little known Fourth Law. It states that D&D is an abstraction and there's a difference between scrutiny and outright houseruling things, and a PFS DM is meant to NOT House Rule but to run the game within the RAW.

Judges enjoy considerable leeway in PFS when environmental conditions or other variables are a factor. I can envision the same judgment call occurring should the shield-slammer by standing on slippery ice without appropriate footwear for gaining traction on such surfaces.

* * * * *

This particular contest scenario has been going for some time, and we have at least a couple builds now demonstrating survival, as well as nearing or exceeding four digits worth of damage. I'll hand out the gold when somebody hits an arbitrarily big number that suits my fancy, then retire a mechanic and/or pose a new restriction - or devise an entirely new scenario.


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You know, that 35 total on every save isn't quite unbeatable. And if you can beat it then the double save on phantasmal killer doesn't hurt either. Here's a wizard who does all the hit points, 99% of the time.

Elly the Illusionist:
Half-orc exploiter wizard 10 / id rager bloodrager (Anger) 1 / mindchemist alchemist 1
Projection alternate racial trait
Str 10 + 2 enhancement + 4 bloodrage + 2 strength focus - 2 alchemical = 16
Int 17 + 2 racial + 3 level + 6 enhancement + 4 alchemical = 32
Cha 12 + 2 enhancement = 14
Feats: scribe scroll -> spell focus (illusion) (PFS), greater spell focus (illusion), arcane strike, riving strike, empowered spell, blooded arcane strike, quicken spell, encouraging spell, mad magic
Exploits: potent magic, familiar (peacock, figment archetype, skilled (intimidate) evolution), school understanding (conjuration/teleportation, shift)
Traits: magical knack (wizard), beaten, not broken

Relevant gear: headband of vast intelligence +6, belt of giant’s strength +2, +1 cruel bardiche, spellguard bracers, four-leaf clover (familiar), elixir of the thundering voice, monkey’s paw, dusty rose ioun stone, pink and green sphere ioun stone

Encouraging heroism cast in advance on wizard, shared w/familiar
Cognatogen drunk in advance by wizard
Familiar drinks elixir of the thundering voice in advance

Round 1
Cast quickened true strike
Rage
Ready attack vs. enemy
Familiar demoralizes enemy when it appears (shaken condition)
Deliver readied attack; total attack bonus 35 vs. AC of 35 with a reroll on the d20 if necessary. (sickened condition, riving strike)

Round 2:
Cast phantasmal killer w/potent magic, projection (DC 30, saves at -6). Enemy dies.

Round 3:
Use shift supernatural ability to get out from under enemy (swift action)
Cast empowered force punch for a modest amount of damage.


I can't see how to get the DC high enough on round 3 without an attack with cruel and riving strike wearing down the saves, but there's probably a way. Heighten spell and tenebrous spell could help a little if you went that way.


Approximated math ahead, enter at own risk.

Even More Reposition Math:
Alright, so if we use the table from the previous post we might approximate the damage.

2 = 3
4 = 5.25
6 = 7.125
8 = 8.766
10 = 10.24
12 = 11.60
14 = 12.85

Since the chance for crit is equal to chance to hit, we can simplify the previous formula.

[AoO Value+2] * [Crit Chance] + 1 * [Normal dmg Chance]
=
[AoO Value+3] * 0.5

===============

Round 1:
First AoO uses the value for 12 AoO's from the table. [11.6+3]*0.5*35.5
= 260~

If we divide this number by the average damage for a hit, we can get an idea of how many AoO's were used.
260/(1.5 * 35.5) = 4.9~

So about 4 were used. (Since the 1st attack in the chain is already accounted for)

Second AoO uses the value for 8 AoO's from the table. [8.766+3]*0.5*35.5
= 210~

Round 1 Average Damage: 470

===============

Round 2:
The first attack uses the value for 14 AoO's from the table. [12.85+3]*0.5*39.5
= 310~

310/(1.5 * 39.5) = 5.2~

4 used.

The second attack uses the value for 10 AoO's from the table. [10.24+3]*0.5*39.5
= 260~

260/(1.5 * 39.5) = 4.4~

We rounded down last time, so let's say 4 used.

The third attack uses the value for 6 AoO's from the table. [7.125+3]*0.5*39.5
= 200~

200/(1.5 * 39.5) = 3.4~

Let's err on the side of caution, and say 3 used.

The fourth attack uses a value between the value of 2 and 4 AoO's. [4.125+3]*0.5*39.5
= 140

Round 2 Average Damage: 880 (800, see below)

===============

The chance of getting the Reposition AoO and Crit AoO is lower on the first attacks of the chains in Round 2.

1st/2nd Attack, round 2:
Chance to confirm a critical hit: 50.075%
Chance to confirm a critical hit and reposition: 48.96%

3rd Attack, round 2:
Chance to confirm a critical hit: 48.96%
Chance to confirm a critical hit and reposition: 39.04%

4th Attack, round 2:
Chance to confirm a critical hit: 39.04%
Chance to confirm a critical hit and reposition: 19.91%

This will undoubtedly lower the average damage, but luckily it has a very low effect on the highest BAB attacks.

The following are approximations

The average dmg of the 1st and 2nd attack is lowered by around 3.1 and 2.6, respectively.

The average dmg of the 3rd and 4th attack is lowered by around 20 and 56, respectively.

===============

Animal Companion (with 17-20 Gore attack, 0.55 to hit.)

Then we add all those estimated AoO's together, and see what my AC is up to. The total over round 1 and 2 is twenty AoO's (21 with Fortitous), but the AC has only eight per turn.

Straight damage:
16 x [(7.7)+(1.54)]
= 150~

And then we have to consider that every critical hit also provokes another AoO from both the AC and me, further improving the total damage.

If we assume that those extra AoO's can only chain once (because the math is terrible), we have an additional 270 damage.

20 * [Crit-%] * ( [Avg AC dmg] + [Avg player dmg] )

Crit-% = 0.11
Avg AC dmg = 9.24

Avg player dmg = ([AoO Value+3] * 0.5) * 35.5 (<-39.5 in the 2nd round)

Number of estimated AoO's in round 1 = 8
Number of estimated AoO's in round 2 = 12 (AC have a maximum of 8 AoO's per turn)

8 * [0.11] * ( [9.24] + [106.5] ) <- Round 1
+
8 * [0.11] * ( [9.24] + [118.5] ) <- Round 2

= 215~

Animal Companion average damage: 365

===============

Total damage in round 1+2: 1635

***

My previous guess was pretty close.

Lowballing 1635 average damage if we include the Animal Companion with a 17-20 Gore Attack.

Mazon the Lucky Bastard, finishing touches:
Magic Items:

I buy a Keen AoMF (and mwk Tusk Blades) instead of the +2 Wis Ioun Stone.

96/110 k used.

Then we add in an Aegis of Recovery (1,500) to heal when we drop below 0 HP.
We'll do a Salve of Slipperiness/Wisdom in the Flesh/Corset of the Vishkanya
combo to escape the pinned condition.

Or just a Ring of Return if we want to teleport away.

102/110 k used.

=====

Domains

(Halcamora):
Luck Domain
Plant: Growth Subdomain

Swift action Enlarge, will be useful if we can't get off the Enlarge Person spell often.

or

(Desna):
Luck Domain
Liberation: Freedom Subdomain

Condition removal several times per day. Say goodbye to Negative Levels, Disease and Curses.

=====

Class changes:

Add Bloodrider to the Bloodrager level. (+10 movement to mount)

Ulfen Guard: Rage Power Guard Dedication: Quick Reflexes

=====

Saves (while raging):
Fortitude +24, Reflex +10, Will +14

=====

Animal Companion

Dodge
Mobility
Combat Reflexes
Combat Patrol
Spirit Oni Master

60 ft flying speed.

***

So since we now have fifteen AoO's per turn, I can confidently say that the average damage of round 1+2 should be close to 1700.


@avr

Did you find a way to beat the SR reliably?
Force Punch and Phantasmal Killer seem to (normally) be negated by the CR 24 spell resistance, but your CL is rather high, isn't it?

==========

Made a mistake while editing my post previously.

I forgot my AC only has 8 AoO's the first time I calculated the dmg, and when I fixed it forgot to chance this sentence.

Quote:
If we assume that those extra AoO's can only chain once (because the math is terrible), we have an additional 270 damage.

So if anyone actually bothered to read through that jumbled mess, that's why it doesn't add up.


“Ping Pong” — a double-barreled glass-cannon!

Ping (and) Pong are a Mammoth Rider and mount tag-team whose assortment of Greater maneuvers and shared teamwork feats enable them to unleash a reverberating barrage of fissioning AoO carnage with high-threat weaponry using big base dice and beefy numeric bonuses. The concept of Ping Pong was first explored here, and is a DPR-maximizing extrapolation of the more sensibly realistic “Lone Wolf Rider”.

Should you attempt to play your own Ping Pong in PFS? Absolutely not. Assuming you could even make a will save beyond low-level, the build’s emphasis makes an utter mockery and shambles of “Animal Companion Etiquette” from 7th onward. This is a legal build, not a viable or ethical one in that campaign.

Build & equipment:
“Ping”: half-orc (of Tian Xia human ancestry)

Attributes at 1st:
STR+ 17 (15+racial)
DEX: 16
CON: 14 (16,15,14,12,10,7 20pt array))
INT: 10
WIS: 12
CHA: 7

Character traits: Called, Dirty Fighter*
01 Barbarian1 [Drunken Brute/Savage Technologist]**, Combat Reflexes
02 Hunter1 [Primal Companion]
03 Barbarian2 [rage power:Ferocious Beast], Boon Companion
04 Hunter2 [precise companion:Outflank], STR>18
05 Hunter3 [hunter tactics][Paired Opportunists], Amplified Rage
06 Cavalier1 [Beast Rider/Gendarme][Power Attack][Order of the Seal]
07 Brawler1 [Wild Child][Martial Flexibility]***, Dirty Fighting
08 Fighter1 [Drill Sergeant][Improved Trip], STR>19
09 Fighter2 [Pack Flanking][Greater Trip], Improved Reposition
10 Mammoth Rider1 [Gigantic Steed]
11 Mammoth Rider2 [Colossus Hunter][Iron Will], Greater Reposition
12 Cavalier2 [Keeper of the Seal], STR>20

* Dirty Fighter grants +1 dmg on flanks; could do Group Fighter for +1 flank attacks, but Pack Flanking provides more than enough for our purposes here.

** The feat Extreme Mood Swings would be phenomenal in a Good Hope potion-guzzling drunk fighter (where it would result in a +4 Morale bonus to virtually any check you could think of), however the additional move-action of alcohol consumption represents action-economy allotment we have no time for in this contest. There’s also no room for the feat, and an additional +2/+2 actually contributes less damage than any other in the build; e.g., Amplified Rage represents +2/+2 to both rider and mount as well as two more AoOs for both.

*** A Brawler[Mutagenic Warrior/Wild Child] archetype stack yields higher potential DPR, but the contest leaves us no action-economy room for additional mutagen deployment beyond existing potion consumption, whereas the Martial Flexibility class ability (forfeited by Mutagenic Warrior) provides a needed feat slot. If this were a 13th-level contest with extra buff time, we’d train in the archetype.

Level and feat highlights:
01 AoO rage/reach build with Combat Reflexes out of the gate
02 anything-goes ‘roided druid companion; access to Lead Blades
03 AC rages with us even if not adjacent; is full-level henceforth
04 a dull level is sweetened by reaching an even number in strength
05 rage bonus jumps to +8 for both of us, and share all teamwork feats
06 free maneuver when full-attacking Challenged; grab Power Attack now
07 access to any qualified Combat feat as a move action; animal gets big
08 Drill Sergeant archetype will grant three feats over two class levels
09 regain Tactician feature forfeited by Cavalier archetype choices
10 an Enlarged rider needs a huge mount, and we now have one
11 +1 untyped attack and damage versus large+ sized opponents
12 gain 3rd iterative and an extra Challenge per day

Equipment:
10 wrist-sheaths (spring-loaded) x2
50 potion of Enlarge Person
750 potion of Good Hope
750 potion of Haste
1000 Shawl of Life-keeping (shoulders)
000 Wayfinder (free as member of the Pathfinder Society)
000 second Wayfinder, purchased with two Prestige Points
1500 Opalescent White Pyramid ioun stone (cracked: Fauchard)
1800 Scabbard of Vigor
3000 Ring of Ferocious Action (ring #1)
8000 Champion’s Banner (slotless)
8000 Vambraces of the Tactician (wrists)
10000 Quick Action Slippers (feet)
10000 Commander’s Helm (Teamwork: Precise Strike) (head)
16000 Belt of Giant Strength +4 (belt)
18014 Fauchard (+1/Fortuitous/Keen)
=78,874

Animal companion equipment:
50 Masterwork stirrups (MW tool: +2 to fast-mount/dismount checks)
64 saddle (exotic/military) and saddlebags
1000 Gold Nodule ioun stone (flawed, Comprehend Languages: Orc)*
1800 Scabbard of Vigor
10000 Belt of Physical Might (+2 Strength, +2 dexterity)
18050 Tusk Blades (+1/Fortuitous/Keen)
=30,964

* Unnecessary but had 1k left, and it’s a little-known fact that rhinos groove to orcish power-chords. (Now if only we had time to learn to play.)

(Note: animal companions can have both a saddle and a belt item.)

Player equipment: PRGP Character Folio for free reroll 1/session: ~ $10 new. (I would prefer the awesome “Goblin w/d20” shirts, but they are sadly out-of-print.)

Total: 109,838gp + $10 (approximately 15sp)

- - -

Ping attributes at 12th with items activated and raging while enlarged:
str 34 +12 (17->20, +8 amplified rage, +2 enlarge, +4 belt)
dex 22 +6 (16, +8 amplified rage, -2 enlarge)
con 14 +2
int 10
wis 12 +1
cha 7 -2

Relevant skills: Ride +21, +24 while large/raging, +26 fast-mount/dismount

Attack bonus:
11 BAB
12 strength 34
+3 enhancement (Scabbard of Vigor)
+1 competence (Pale Green Prism)
+2 morale (Good Hope)
+1 Colossus Hunter
+1 Haste
-1 size large
= +30

conditionals:
+5 tripping or repositioning (Improved, Greater, +1 large size)
+4 Paired Opportunists AoO circumstance bonus
+4 Pack Flanking
+1 higher ground bonus (riding mount larger than opponent)
-3 Power Attack
-4 prone
-2 shaken
-2 sickened
-5 2nd full-attack iterative
-5 Fortuitous penalty (only -1 including Paired Opportunists)
-10 3rd full-attack iterative

Damage, enlarged Lead Blades fauchard:
3d8+18(1.5xStr)
+3 enhancement (Scabbard of Vigor)
+2 morale (Good Hope)
+1 Dirty Fighter trait (all attacks are flanks)
+1 Colossus Hunter
= 38.5 (critable)
+9 (Power Attack)
= 47.5 (critable)
+8 (Challenge)
= 55.5 (critable)
+1d6 Precise Strike (non-critable)
= 59…

Keen fauchard crit confirmation probability: (.3)(.95) = .285
[.95(47.5)=45.125]+[.285(45.125)=12.860625]+3.5[Precise] = 58.485625 (Power Attack / non-Challenged)
[.95(55.5)=52.725]+[.285(52.725)=15.026625]+3.5[Precise] = 71.251625 (Power Attack + Challenged)
Every attack made during the encounter is a flank, and all but one (and the impossibly unlikely 3rd iterative Fortuitous AoO) are 95% to hit.

Ping AoO probabilities (extra die-roll required, so further .95 reduction…)
… Power Attack / non-Challenged: (.95)(58.485625) = 55.08634375
… Power Attack + Challenged: (.95)(71.251625) = 67.68904375

Available attacks of opportunity per round: 7 when raging. (I do not assume that Fortuitous weaponry increases the total number of AoOs allotted per round as that is not explicitly stated in its RAW text. Otherwise add approximately ~110 damage to the total each round.)

- - -

“Pong”: Ping’s arsinoitherium megafauna animal companion

str 14 > 22 (enlargement at 7th)
dex 12 > 10 (enlargement at 7th)
con 15 > 19 (enlargement at 7th)
int 2
wis 13
cha 3

Companion: huge arsinoitherium (12th)
str 26 (+2 gigantic steed, +2 belt)
dex 14 (-2 gigantic steed penalty, +4 Dex increase, +2 belt)
con 22 (+2 gigantic steed, +1 ability score increase)
int 3 (+1 ability score increase)

Companion: huge arsinoitherium (with items and sharing a bad mood)
str 34 (+8 Ferocious Beast, Amplified Rage, Hunter Tactics)
dex 22 (+8 Ferocious Beast, Amplified Rage, Hunter Tactics)

Companion feats at 12th (5): Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Greater Bull Rush, Quick Bull Rush

Teamwork feats shared by Hunter Tactics: Amplified Rage, Outflank, Pack Flanking, Paired Opportunists, Precise Strike

Gore base die: medium:d8, large:2d8, huge:3d8, evolution(Improved Damage):4d8

Pong attack bonus:
10 hit dice
12 strength 34
+3 enhancement (Scabbard of Vigor)
-1 gigantic steed penalty (Huge size)
= +24

conditionals:
+6 Bull Rush (+2 each from Improved, Greater, huge size)
+4 Paired Opportunists AoO circumstance bonus
+4 Pack Flanking
-3 Power Attack
+2 charge
-5 2nd full-attack iterative
-5 Fortuitous penalty (only -1 including Paired Opportunists)

Damage, gore:
4d8+18(1.5xStr)
+3(enhancement)
=39
+9(Power Attack)
=48
+4d8+18(Powerful Charge)
=84
+1d6 Precise Strike (non-critable)

Keen tusk blade crit confirmation probability: (.2)(.95) = .19
[.95(39)=37.05]+[.19(51)=7.0395]+3.5[Precise] = 47.5895 (no Power Attack)
[.95(48)=45.6]+[.19(51)=8.664]+3.5[Precise] = 57.764 (Power Attack)
[.95(84)=79.8]+[.19(69)=15.162]+3.5[Precise] = 98.462 (Powerful Charge)*

Pong AoO probabilities (extra die-roll set up, so further .95 reduction…)
… no Power Attack: (.95)(47.5895) = 45.210025
… Power Attack: (.95)(57.764) = 54.8758

Attacks of opportunity per round: 7 when raging.

Prep & Crunch:
DPR Challenge:

Last night:
- Ping puts 10hp into Shawl of Life-Keeping before bedtime.
- Gets a good night’s sleep (heals back all ten).

Start of day:
- Prepare spells (Lead Blades).
- Eat a hearty breakfast.
- Gel & twirl “Brutas The Badass” pompadour.
- Dress in cool trench coat to conceal that girly shawl.
- Prepare animal companion; assist activating ioun stone.
- Place ioun stones in Wayfinders and safely tuck away.

Active buffs and abilities:
- Enlarge Person
- Lead Blades
- Good Hope
~ Martial Flexibility (Quick Reposition)

Exploit: Under the “If you think a scenario is likely, make a note of it” clause, I will assert that, if other PCs have at least two rounds for drinking potions pre-combat to acquire their two 1min/level buffs, then characters with the Accelerated Drinker trait or Drunken Brute archetypes (among other possibilities) and/or Martial Flexibility are capable of deploying up to four buffs in the same amount of time provided that those in excess of two are activated as move actions and do not need further action-economy to place in the hand. In our case, Enlarge Person (50gp potion), Lead Blades (memorized spell, scroll, or 2pp PFS wand), and Martial Flexibility (class ability) will be up routinely as they’re cheap enough at 12th to pop in any questionable circumstance, leaving the much more expensive consumables (Good Hope, Haste) to be slammed only when combat is imminent or ongoing.)

Stance prior to first round:
- Size Large with a 20’ polearm astride a huge, long-orientation mount with 10’ reach.
- Polearm blade secured in Scabbard of Vigor strapped to lower leg.*
- Haft of polearm extends up our side and under the armpit of our reins hand.*
- Champion’s Banner attached to back frame or polearm (either seems currently legal).

(* Strapping the scabbard to our mount’s tack might be a more convenient option, but doing it the listed way prevents any problems related to it being an unattended object vis-a-vis Enlarge Person.)

1st round action-economy:
- Swift: Primal Transformation 2 evolutions into companion (1. increased damage, 2. reach +5’).
- Free: activate spring-loaded wrist-sheath to pop a potion into free hand.
- Move: …chug potion of Haste (via Drunken Brute)
- Free: …drop reins* and draw weapon as part of that move action with other hand.
- No action: set Scabbard of Vigor enhancement bonus at +3 (will last three rounds).
- Free: drop empty potion bottle and grip polearm in both hands.
- Free: Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount (Ride skill, auto-success)
- Free: rage (shared through Ferocious Beast then Amplified for both by Hunter Tactics).
- Rage: 8-2=6 rounds left.
- …Ready-action to reposition enemy.
- Pong: move-action shakes head to remove Scabbard of Vigor from tusk blades; sets +3.
- …Ready-action to bull-rush enemy on Ping’s command.

(* Reins are for show; companion guided w/knees and commanded verbally via Golden Nodule ioun.)

Crit Calcs ( Props to Adjoint; thanks, buddy!)

Let's assume you have N attacks, and Pk is the probability of a critical hit on the k-th attack. Let Xk=Pk/(1-Pk).

If P1 = .285(Ping), then X1 = .285/(1-.285) = 0.203775
If P1 = .19(Pong), then X1 = .285/(1-.285) = 0.1539
Values for P(Nth) do not decline from P1 unless attack probabilities decline
(X1+X2+...+XN) = 0.8151 + 0.6156 = 1.4307

It can be proven the probability of getting exactly 2 critical hits (no more, no less) is equal to
((X1+...+XN)^2-(X1^2+...+XN^2)) / 2 * (1-P1)(1-P2)*...*(1-PN)
For exactly 3 critical hits the probability is
((X1+...+XN)^3-3*(X1^2+...+XN^2)(X1+...+XN)+2*(X1^3+...+XN^3))/6 * (1-P1)(1-P2)*...*(1-PN)

{Probability of 2 or more crits}=1-{Probability of exactly 1 crit}-{Probability of no crits}
where
{Probability of no crits}=(1-P1)*(1-P2)*...*(1-PN)
and
{Probability of exactly 1 crit} = (X1+X2+...+XN)*(1-P1)*(1-P2)*...*(1-PN)
so
{Probability of 2 or more crits} = 1-(1+X1+X2+...+XN)*(1-P1)*(1-P2)*...*(1-PN)
1-[(1+0.815+0.6156)x(0.08043967078987)] = 0.80448333617814

The Big Fight:
1st Round: Monster Mash

Rerolls available (to be used by Ping): Called trait, will be used this round since there are fewer main attacks to uncork AoO chain-reaction.

The order of operations listed below is only one of many different ways we can chain-reaction during monster move, as any missed Greater maneuvers can be tried again later, with any successes each triggering two AoOs which are then devoted to remaining uncompleted maneuver types until all are unloaded. Given four initially available attacks (two readies and two movement AoOs), the probability of successful maneuver deployments is virtually 100% (159,999/160,000 = 99.999375%), and only in the case of four back-to-back 1s are we shut-down cold and forced to resort to using one of our rerolls. Given this, will not bother with tallying multiplications by .99999375 due to resultant DPR differences being only a minuscule fraction of one point.

Enemy move:
- Enemy moves from 20’ to 15’ away; Ping ignores his movement-granted AoO for now.
- At 15’, Greater Reposition attempt as Ping’s ready goes off; budge monster sideways.
- CAoO1: Pong takes Greater Reposition AoO (no Power Attack): 45.210025
- AoO1: take AoO granted by Paired Opportunists by adjacent ally’s AoO: 55.08634375
- Pong’s original readied attack goes off (no Power Attacking): 47.5895
- Enemy attempts moving from 15’ to 10’, triggering AoOs for leaving threatened square.
- AoO2: take AoO, declare Greater Trip attempt.
- AoO3: Greater Trip-granted AoO if trip attempt successful: 58.485625
- CAoO2: Pong takes AoO from Paired Opportunists (Power Attacks prone foe): 54.8758
- CAoO3: Pong now takes its AoO granted by enemy movement, and Greater Bull Rushes.
- AoO4: take AoO granted to ally by Greater Bull Rush if rush successful: 55.08634375
- CAoO4: Pong takes AoO from Paired Opportunists if rush successful: 54.8758
- AoO5: take AoO granted by Fortuitous at first eligible point: 58.485625
- CAoO5: Pong takes AoO granted by Fortuitous at first eligible point: 57.764

Of the eight attacks for damage, there is a [Ping:(.715)^4]x[Pong:(.81)^4)] = 0.08043967078987% chance there will be no confirmed crits by either of them, or a 91.956032921013% chance that there will be, in which case Outflank is triggered by the partner of the critter, which then triggers Paired Opportunists in the other. 0.91956032921013 x (56.785984375+43.38585416666667) (calculated using averaged damage of both added once) = 92.11404882695899

Ping and Pong will then each have one AoO left, which will be triggered and consumed by another Outflank + Paired Opportunists combo (henceforth “Of+PO”) if the team achieves a second crit which does not occur as the result of the first crit’s Of+PO follow-up. There is an .80448333617814% chance of two or more crits, and a 7/9ths chance that at least one of those additional crits is not one of the two die rolls involved in the Of+PO pair containing the first crit already accounted for. (0.80448333617814) x (7/9) x 92.11404882695899 = 46.36769508448393

Total damage Round 1: 625.94080641144292

- - -

2nd round: Shufflepuck Café

- Rage: expend 2 rounds for barbarian and Ferocious Beast; 4 rounds left.
- Swift action: Challenge opponent.
- full attacks: Ping…four available, Pong…two available, all Power Attacks.
- Available maneuvers: Trip (done first), Reposition, Bull Rush.
- Take shared AoOs from Paired Opportunists each maneuver.
- Take Fortuitous AoOs at first eligible point.
- Take Outflank+Opportunist critical-hit-granted AoOs at any point

- Ping: trip (free via Order of the Seal) > (CAoO1 +PO AoO1 > chains)
- Ping and Pong: Fortuitous: (AoO2 > Reposition chain, CAoO2 > Bull Rush)
- Ping and Pong: Outflank: (AoO3 > chain, CAoO3 > chain)
- Ping: main attack: Reposition > (CAoO~ +PO AoO~)
- Ping: Haste attack: (AoOs likely depleted here or very soon)
- Ping: -5 iterative:
- Ping: -10 iterative:
- Pong: main attack:
- Pong: -5 iterative:

Each maneuver-granted AoO will be used to trigger another AoO maneuver type that has not been done yet in that sequence until both have tagteamed Paired Opportunists off any particular trigger, at which point AoOs will be taken for damage. With seven total possible full-attack actions to initiate chains, the probability of either Ping or Pong having an unfilled AoO by the end of the round is an infinitesimal.

Between rounds 1 and 2, Ping will make up to 19 d20 rolls, with there being a 1-(.95)^19 = (1 - 0.6226463974647 chance of rolling at least one “1”. The Called trait’s daily reroll will be used, either salvaging a lost attack or preserving an AoO chain that ends in an attack. The reroll will save an average of [0.6226463974647 x .95 x (58.485625+55.08634375+71.251625+67.68904375)/4=63.128159375] = 37.34119496275012 damage. There is a 0.3773536025353 chance the reroll remains available for Round 3.

Ping: 9 x [(71.251625)+(67.68904375)]/2 = 625.233009375
Pong: 8 x [(57.764)+(54.8758)]/2 = 450.5592
Reroll salvage (rounds 1 & 2 combined: 37.34119496275012

Total damage Round 2: 1113.13340433775012

- - -

3rd round: Beat Death at Twister

Rerolls available (to be used by Pong, else either): RPGA Character Folio displayed at PFS event. Residual chance that Called trait reroll still unused.

Success here hinges on Pong barging the monster off Ping, and without this happening the whole round is a bust. The monster's CMD is 35, and with it perfectly overlapping Ping's own large prone footprint, Pong cannot come adjacent to his master without suffering a monster AoO even though he could otherwise attack the monster with the 15' reach of his horns. This means that the Pack Flanking bonus is shut off. Pong can combine a bull rush with a charge, however, which brings attack-bonus up to +32. (Regrettably, there is no room in Pong's shorter animal companion feat list for Forceful Charge, which would unleash a solid 100+ points worth of Powerful Charge gore damage in a single hit before unloading the bull rush for free.) Given this importance, we have saved the Character Folio reroll for this round. Pong must roll at least a "3" for a successful bull rush, so 10% chance of bust. With the reroll available, the 10% bust chance drops to 1%.

- Rage: expend 3 rounds of rage for self and nonadjacent Ferocious Beast; 1 left.
- Ignore Staggered condition for 5 rounds (Ring of Ferocious Action); automatic.
- Ping delays to let Pong go first.
- Pong: AoO “counter” resets. Greater Bull Rush monster.
- Pong: move along with pushed opponent’, stopping when standing over and adjacent “above” Ping (or between Ping and monster), providing soft-cover.

With the monster removed, Ping is no longer pinned. He remains prone, sickened, shaken, dismounted, and subject to the previous round’s Power Attack penalty, but with Pong adjacent again reacquires Pack Flanking bonus.

With Pong finished, Ping comes out of delay.

- AoO counter “resets”; Power Attack penalty turns off.
- Explain to GM that we deliberately intend to take “strenuous actions” while disabled without regard for consequences, because we are an enraged half-orc, and that's how we roll.
- Pong’s soft-cover thwarts monster AoO granted by standing up from prone.
- Free action: stand up from prone in Quick Action Slippers.
- GM: “The magic item is doing the work, so not strenuous.”
- Free action: fast-mount (DC20 Ride check; succeeds on a “1” despite -4 penalty).
- GM: “Hauling your Enlarged butt up a huge meatwall at double-time? Sounds strenuous.”
- For taking strenuous actions while disabled at 0hp, Ping slips to -1, and is…
- …immediately healed to 9hp by the Shawl of Life-Keeping and no longer disabled.
- Orc Ferocity heads off any arguments about falling unconscious and losing rage.

(A cheesier, metagamier method of acquiring a full-attack in Round 3 is to reserve an AoO from Round 2 for taking when Pong bull-rushes, said AoO being strenuous activity. But you’re not supposed to read the module before play, you wascally wabbit.)

- No longer disabled and not having used a move action, Ping can full-attack.
- Swift action: Challenge new opponent (2/day with Vambraces of the Tactician).
- Penalties linger from Shaken and Sickened, but Pack Flanking and elevation bonuses are reacquired (+39-4 = +35).
- Back in the saddle, Ping’s large reach weapon can attack foes 15-20’ from the mount. If Pong rolled poor and doesn't shove the monster that far, and the GM rules that Ping, choosing to attack from rearward hexes of his huge mount, still does not have sufficient vertical-diagonal distance to strike a target smaller than the mount that is adjacent to the "front" of the mount, Ping can still attempt a maneuver with the haft of the polearm (+35 +5/Greater -7/Improvised-enhancement )= +33 vs CMD+35, meaning he still hits on a 2), which is what he was probably going to do anyway to initiate an AoO chain. He will Quick Reposition and scoot the monster 5-feet farther away.
- Remainder of Round 3 similar to Round 2 (although Pong only receives AoOs.)

Ping: 9 x [(71.251625)+(67.68904375)]/2 = 625.233009375
Pong: 6 x [(57.764)+(54.8758)]/2 = 337.9194
Ping reroll salvage: 0.3773536025353 x [1-(0.95^12)] x [(71.251625)+(67.68904375)]/2 = 12.04940557983341

Subtotal Round 3: 975.20181495483341, ... x.99 (avoid “bust” probability) = 965.44979680528508

Pong's reroll salvage, after "bust" accounted for: 0.9 x [1-(0.95^6)] x [[(57.764)+(54.8758)]/2 = 13.42763840627016

Total Damage Round 3: 978.87743521155524

Total Damage: 2,718, give or take a couple hundred due to likely botching crit and AoO chain probabilities by 5% here and 0.25% there and so on. (I erred conservative by quite a bit, or at least think I did, by subjecting a full half of all DPR in rounds 2 and 3 by an extra .95 reduction on top of any other dings I thought were due.)

If (and this is a point of debate) the Fortuitous weapon enhancement increases the available pool of AoOs per round (rather than simply entitling you to make one if you're able due to possessing Combat Reflexes, et al), then overall DPR would lap 3,000.


*Slow whistle*

Damn

=========

Some corrections:
Slim Jim wrote:

Animal companion equipment:

50 Masterwork stirrups (MW tool: +2 to fast-mount/dismount checks)
64 saddle (exotic/military) and saddlebags
1000 Gold Nodule ioun stone (flawed, Comprehend Languages: Orc)*
1800 Scabbard of Vigor
10000 Belt of Physical Might (+2 Strength, +2 dexterity)
18050 Tusk Blades (+1/Fortuitous/Keen)
=30,964

/.../

Companion feats at 12th (5): Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Greater Bull Rush, Quick Bull Rush

As per This FAQ, your AC needs to take the Extra Item Slot feat to be able to wear anything but a Necklace/Barding.

And unfortunately, I don't think your AC is eligible to ever wear Belt slot items.

So instead of the Belt and +3 Tusk Blades, buy this.

+2 Str Ioun Stone (8000)
+2 Dex Ioun Stone (8000)
Fortuitous AoMF (4000)
+1, Keen Tusk Blades (8350)

Which should have the same cost, with the same effect.

===========

Slim Jim wrote:

- Swift: Primal Transformation 2 evolutions into companion (1. increased damage, 2. reach +5’).

- Free: activate spring-loaded wrist-sheath to pop a potion into free hand.
- Move: …chug potion of Haste (via Drunken Brute)

The Spring-Loaded Wrist Sheath was a free action, now it's a swift action.

===========

The Ring of Ferocious Action is quite specific in its language, only preventing the Staggered condition if it was caused by an enemy's attack.
You'd have to ask Mike Schneider if it applies, but from previous rulings I'd guess not.

***


Wonderstell wrote:

@avr

Did you find a way to beat the SR reliably?
Force Punch and Phantasmal Killer seem to (normally) be negated by the CR 24 spell resistance, but your CL is rather high, isn't it?

I missed that it had SR, of course. A metamagic rod of piercing spell (stored with a glove of storing), and a pinch of dweomer's essence for each spell, and swapping out beaten,not broken (which I don't need in this version) for magic's might go to a +18 on the check with -5 to the SR making it 19, success on a roll of 1, tada. I can afford the 23K on WBL.


@avr

I phrased that poorly, but I literally meant CR 24 equivalent spell resistance. 24+11 = 35.

The opponent got CR 15 armor class, CR 12 CMD, and CR 24 Spell Resistance and saves.

===============

More corrections:
Slim Jim wrote:

- Free: …drop reins* and draw weapon as part of that move action with other hand.

- No action: set Scabbard of Vigor enhancement bonus at +3 (will last three rounds).

You can't draw your your weapon "as part of that move action" since it is a free action. So unless you've got Quick Draw or charge/move you can't draw your weapon.

===============

Rage wrote:
While in rage, a barbarian gains a +4 morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves. In addition, she takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase to Constitution grants the barbarian 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the rage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.
Savage Technologist: Rage wrote:

A savage technologist can enter rage as a barbarian, except she gains a morale bonus to Strength and Dexterity instead of Strength and Constitution, and she does not take a penalty to Armor Class. She retains the bonus on Will saving throws. When a barbarian ability would increase the savage technologist’s Strength while raging, it increases her Dexterity instead.

This ability alters rage.

Skills wrote:
Handle Animal (Cha)

Okay, so it seems like your only choice is Skilled Rager, which means you're one feat behind. I think Amplified Rage is the first feat to go, right?

===============

The Ring of Ferocious Action should work on second thought. It's phrased in such a way to prevent you from avoiding the staggered condition from one of your own abilities, but you're not doing anything like that.
Maybe if you could get staggered from environmental effects, but I know of no such effects.

===============

Also, I do think you should calculate your damage with two buffs active, since it will be hard to compare your build to others if we're not starting on even ground.

***

Bad news, Slim Jim. I just realized that barbarians can't use Handle Animal while raging.
Urban Bloodrager for me, Skilled Rager for you.


Wonderstell wrote:
The Spring-Loaded Wrist Sheath was a free action, now it's a swift action.
...bugger. Martials can't have nice things. Oh well, we'll just have the potion in our hand. (If we had a shield, it would be a buckler anyway.)
Quote:
You can't draw your your weapon "as part of that move action" since it is a free action.
The hand that drops the reins draws the weapon while the other hand with the potion assists the consumption of it as a move action (per Drunken Brute archetype).
Quote:
Also, I do think you should calculate your damage with two buffs active, since it will be hard to compare your build to others if we're not starting on even ground.

Easy enough to ditch Lead Blades (whose additional 4.5 per fauchard smack contributes surprisingly little toward overall DPR, a tad over 100pts or so. Forfeiting Good Hope's +2 damage would be another 40-45, with the loss of attack-bonus increasing miss chances slightly for one or two maneuver attempts by Ping in round 3 prior to getting the monster tripped, and for the -10 iterative. Pong's DPR is unaffected by the loss of either.

Regards Handle Animal, it's an infamous gray area as to whether you need it at all if you're riding (and have good ranks in Ride), provided the animal is otherwise well-trained and possesses the tricks you need from it. In PFS, GMs will typically get strict when players with druid PCs are behaving as if they had Leadership. In our case, the Golden Nodule provides an angle, because Pong will know when Ping is saying "Come 'n git 'em!" (a phrase he has heard many times before) in orcish, and no puny monster is going to get between Pong and delicious blueberry muffin treats. Pong is also very angry (raging), and inclined to attack anything hurting his master anyway.

Quote:
I think Amplified Rage is the first feat to go, right?

Not a chance. -- The combination of Savage Technologist (best martial dip in the game), Amplified Rage (which doubles SavTech's hulkamaniantics) and Paired Opportunists (now feasting off eight additional AoOs per round from such a build sharing the goodies with a raging sidekick) is what delivers the dumptrucks full of damage in the first place. In comparison, I could toss Improved Trip and Greater Trip and lose only three AoOs over the course of the entire fight. (While enlarged, Ping doesn't need to worry about the monster getting opps for him lacking Improved Trip, as its reach is too short.)


Re Handle Animal

Fair enough, that sounds plausible.

But I'd argue that it would be hard to coordinate your efforts and make it take Combat Maneuvers instead of attacks. This is especially important for you during Round 3.

Handle Animal: Maneuver wrote:
Maneuver (DC 20): The animal is trained to use a specific combat maneuver on command, even when it naturally wouldn’t do so (animals typically use combat maneuvers only when using a monster ability to make a free combat maneuver, since otherwise it would provoke an attack of opportunity). an animal must know the attack trick before it can be taught the maneuver trick, and it performs maneuvers only against targets it would normally attack. This trick can be taught to an animal multiple times. Each time it is taught, the animal can be commanded to use a different combat maneuver.

****

Slim Jim wrote:
Quote:
You can't draw your your weapon "as part of that move action" since it is a free action.
The hand that drops the reins draws the weapon while the other hand with the potion assists the consumption of it as a move action (per Drunken Brute archetype).
Combat: Draw or Sheathe a Weapon wrote:
If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.

I think most people interpret "regular move" as a move action used for movement.

****

Slim Jim wrote:
Quote:
I think Amplified Rage is the first feat to go, right?
Not a chance. -- The combination of Savage Technologist (best martial dip in the game), Amplified Rage (which doubles SavTech's hulkamaniantics) and Paired Opportunists (now feasting off eight additional AoOs per round from such a build sharing the goodies with a raging sidekick) is what delivers the dumptrucks full of damage in the first place. In comparison, I could toss Improved Trip and Greater Trip and lose only three AoOs over the course of the entire fight. (While enlarged, Ping doesn't need to worry about the monster getting opps for him lacking Improved Trip, as its reach is too short.)

Amplified Rage wouldn't increase your Dexterity bonus.

The feat improves your Constitution and Strength morale bonuses, but since you don't gain a Constitution bonus it only improves your Strength.

So Amplified Rage is worth +2 A/D for you and the AC.

Your total number of AoO's per round should be 5.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Staggered: You may reasonably surmise that enemy activity is the cause of your being at 0hp in the last round.


Mike Schneider wrote:

Staggered: You may reasonably surmise that enemy activity is the cause of your being at 0hp in the last round.

Not without a DC 20 Sense Motive check, you don't!

Liberty's Edge

(eyebrow lift)

Due to the large, slavering monster sitting on you, you are hereby granted a +20 circumstance bonus to that check.


avr wrote:

You know, that 35 total on every save isn't quite unbeatable. And if you can beat it then the double save on phantasmal killer doesn't hurt either. Here's a wizard who does all the hit points, 99% of the time.

** spoiler omitted **
I can't see how to get the DC high enough on round 3 without an attack with cruel and riving strike wearing down the saves, but there's probably a way....

A quick question for your round 3. How can you shift as a swift and then take actions? Shift works as if dimension door, which doesn't allow actions after usage?

Just want to make sure I've got it right.


Wonderstell wrote:
I think most people interpret "regular move" as a move action used for movement.

Fine. I'll make peddling motions with my feet while I sit in the saddle and draw my weapon with one hand and fast-chug the potion with the other. ("Most" GMs are fine with you drawing a weapon so long as it's not occurring as part of a move action they determine requires the use of both hands. For example climbing, or fishing a scroll out of its tube and unrolling it to read.)

...Hey! You're the guy that just tried to argue he could get off twelve self-perpetuating bull-rushes on the previous page! You thought you could fool me, but I'm on to you, pal. Gonna be keeping a close eye on you!

Quote:
Amplified Rage wouldn't increase your Dexterity bonus.

Savage Technologist modifies how rage works, and is from a more recent source. (Otherwise, the topic is a long-running beat-to-death horse on other threads, and inquiries have not resulted in developer clarifications or errata.)


Slim Jim wrote:

Fine. I'll make peddling motions with my feet while I sit in the saddle and draw my weapon with one hand and fast-chug the potion with the other.

/.../

...Hey! You're the guy that just tried to argue he could get off twelve self-perpetuating bull-rushes on the previous page! You thought you could fool me, but I'm on to you, pal. Gonna be keeping a close eye on you!

Twelve self-perpetuating bull-rushes? That doesn't sound like me at all!

I'm sure I would have gone for eleven. Twelve is just silly.

But you need actual movement to draw a weapon, not just a non-specific move action. Either 'regular move'/charging or a move action.

*****

Slim Jim wrote:
Quote:
Amplified Rage wouldn't increase your Dexterity bonus.
Savage Technologist modifies how rage works, and is from a more recent source. (Otherwise, the topic is a long-running beat-to-death horse on other threads, and inquiries have not resulted in developer clarifications or errata.)

If an Urban Barbarian with a +4 morale bonus to Dexterity took Amplified Rage, it would provide no benefit. The feat increases morale bonuses to Con and Str, nothing else.


Total Changes:
I am now a fervent follower of Kurgess, a deity with the Luck and Family domains.

The Family subdomain allows you to take one condition afflicting an ally, so my AC with Believer's Boon will use that to get me out of the pinned condition.

The Ring of Tactical Precision gives me Outflank as a bonus feat, and gives both me and my Animal Companion an additional +2 to attack.

With my new feat slot I take Monkey Style, which allows me to stand up as a swift action. Otherwise I'd take Gore Fiend for 'unlimited' Rage per day.

We'll do the Shawl of Life-Keeping trick Slim Jim used, but if the sick backflip from prone to standing isn't enough to get us down to -1 we can take the Boar Resilience trait again. If it's already okay, Fate's Favored will do.

Id Rager -> Urban Bloodrider Id Rager
Ulfen Guard: Guard Dedication -> Quick Reflexes Rage Power.

Our new saves with Fate's Favored/Urban rage are:
Fortitude: +23
Reflex: +11
Will: +12

14 AoO's per turn, plus Fortuitous.

***

Magic Items:
Headband of Fortune’s Favor (7,700)
Ring of Tactical Precision (11,000)
Hand of Glory (8,000)

Boots of Speed (12,000)
Cloak of Resistance +2 (4,000)

+1 Furious, Fortuitous, Keen Fauchard (32,000)
Cracked Pearly White Spindle Ioun Stone: Proficiency with the Fauchard (1,500)

+4 Strength belt (16,000)

Wand of Long Arm (750)
Wand of CLW (750)

Keen AoMF (4,000)

Ring of Ferocious Action (3,000)
Shawl of Life-Keeping (1,000)

101,700/110,000 of gold used.
Last bit should be spent on armor for mount/rider.

***

Animal Companion:
Animal Companion (Pteranodon)
20 str, 23(+1) dex, 14 con, 2(+1) int, 14 wis, 12 cha
AoO Bite +22 (2d6+7, 19-20/x2)

Combat Reflexes
Believer’s Boon (Family)
Believer’s Boon (Luck)
Outflank
Paired Opportunist

Large flying Animal Companion with 10ft reach.
60 ft flying speed.

***

The fight:
Chosen buffs: Mutagen and Long Arm

Round 1

The rider uses Bit of Luck on themselves and flexes into Repositioning Strike (Standard+Move).

The Animal Companion readies an action to 5-foot step close to the first opponent that provokes an AoO from its master. Placing us 10 ft from the opponent.

Round 2
Rider uses a Swift action to challenge and Full-attacks.

Mount uses Bit of Luck on its master.

Round 3
Mount moves close enough to use the Binding Ties ability as a standard action, removing the pinned condition from its master.

The prone rider uses Monkey Style to stand up as a swift action, not provoking any AoO thanks to the feat. (DC 20, can't fail with an Elixir of Tumbling.)
The Staggered condition is removed with Slim Jim's tactic (Ferocious Ring), allowing us to five-foot step away and full-attack. But before we start attacking, the mount lets go of the pinned condition as a free action, giving us the normal flanking benefits.

Confusing math ahead.

Round 1 & 2 damage:

Attack bonus and Damage

Every d20 is rolled twice, taking the best of the two. Keep in mind that the Ring of Tactical Precision increased the value from both Outflank and Paired Opportunist.
Chance of Critically hitting: 50.8725 % (The calculations use 50%)

Round 1:

BAB 11 + Str 12 + 3 Weapon + 5 Flank + 1 Haste +2 Order -3 Power Attack (+5 AoO)
= 31 (+5 vs AoO)

Rider: +36 AoO (1d10+30, 15-20/x2)
AC: +22 AoO (2d6+7, 19-20/x2)

Round 2:

+4 damage (Challenge)

Rider: +36 AoO (1d10+34, 15-20/x2)
AC: +22 AoO (2d6+7, 19-20/x2)

Full-Attack: +31/+31/+26/+21 (1d10+34, 15-20/x2)

====================

Same Table as before.
For any odd values, we'll just split the difference in half. This will lead to slightly less damage.

2 = 3
4 = 5.25
6 = 7.125
8 = 8.766
10 = 10.24
12 = 11.60
14 = 12.85

Damage multiplier formula:
[AoO Value+3] * 0.5

===============

Round 1:
First AoO uses the value for 13 AoO's from the table. [12.225+3]*0.5*35.5
= 270~

If we divide this number by the average damage for a hit, we can get an idea of how many AoO's were used.
260/(1.5 * 35.5) = 5.1~

So about 4 were used. (Since the 1st attack in the chain is already accounted for)

Second AoO (Fortuitous) uses the value for 9 AoO's from the table. [9.503+3]*0.5*35.5
= 222~

Round 1 Average Damage: 492

===============

We're gonna round up when possible, to get lower expected damage.

Round 2:

The first attack uses the value for 14 AoO's from the table. [12.85+3]*0.5*39.5
= 313~

313/(1.5 * 39.5) = 5.2~ (4.2)

4 used.

The second attack uses the value for 10 AoO's from the table. [10.24+3]*0.5*39.5
= 260~

260/(1.5 * 39.5) = 4.4~ (3.4)

4 used.

The third attack uses the value for 6 AoO's from the table. [7.125+3]*0.5*39.5
= 200~

200/(1.5 * 39.5) = 3.4~ (2.4)

3 used.

The fourth attack uses the value for 3 AoO's from the table. [4.125+3]*0.5*39.5
= 140

140/(1.5 * 39.5) = 2.4~ (1.4)

2 used

Fortuitous attack uses the value for 1 AoO from the table. [1.5+3]*0.5*39.5
= 90~

Round 2 Average Damage: 1003 (963, see below)

===============

The chance of getting the Reposition AoO and Crit AoO is lower on the first attacks of the chains in Round 2.

1st/2nd Attack, round 2:
Chance to confirm a critical hit: 50.075%
Chance to confirm a critical hit and reposition: 49.85%

3rd Attack, round 2:
Chance to confirm a critical hit: 49.85%
Chance to confirm a critical hit and reposition: 42.84%

4th Attack, round 2:
Chance to confirm a critical hit: 42.84%
Chance to confirm a critical hit and reposition: 29.45%

This will undoubtedly lower the average damage, but luckily it has a very low effect on the highest BAB attacks.

The following are approximations

The average dmg of the 1st and 2nd attack is lowered by around 0.4 and 0.3, respectively.

The average dmg of the 3rd and 4th attack is lowered by around 10 and 29, respectively.

===============

Animal Companion (with 19-20 Bite attack, 0.65 to hit.)

Then we add all those estimated AoO's together, and see what my AC is up to. The total over round 1 and 2 is twenty-one AoO's, but the AC has only eight per turn and isn't given an AoO for the Fortuitous AoO.

Straight damage:
16 x [(11.05)+(0.91)]
= 191~

And then we have to consider that every critical hit also provokes another AoO from me, further improving the total damage.

20 * [Crit-%] * ( [Avg AC dmg] + [Avg player dmg] )

Crit-% = 0.065
Avg AC dmg = 11.96

Avg player dmg = ([AoO Value+3] * 0.5) * 35.5 (<-39.5 in the 2nd round)

Number of estimated AoO's in round 1 = 9 (AC doesn't get the first two)
Number of estimated AoO's in round 2 = 13 (AC have a maximum of 8 AoO's per turn)

7 * [0.065] * [179.7] <- Round 1
+
8 * [0.065] * [118.5] <- Round 2

= 143~

Animal Companion average damage: 334

===============

Total damage in round 1+2: 1789

***

Round 3 Damage:
Round 3:

-4 attack and -6 damage (Shaken, Sickened, no Challenge)

Rider: +32 AoO (1d10+28, 15-20/x2)
AC: +22 AoO (2d6+7, 19-20/x2)

Full-Attack: +27/+27/+22/+17 (1d10+28, 15-20/x2)

*****

The first attack uses the value for 14 AoO's from the table. [12.85+3]*0.5*33.5
= 265~

265/(1.5 * 33.5) = 5.3~ (4.3)

4 used.

The second attack uses the value for 10 AoO's from the table. [10.24+3]*0.5*33.5
= 222~

222/(1.5 * 33.5) = 4.4~ (3.4)

4 used.

The third attack uses the value for 6 AoO's from the table. [7.125+3]*0.5*33.5
= 144~

144/(1.5 * 33.5) = 3.4~ (2.4)

3 used.

The fourth attack uses the value for 3 AoO's from the table. [4.125+3]*0.5*33.5
= 119

119/(1.5 * 33.5) = 2.4~ (1.4)

2 used

Fortuitous attack uses the value for 1 AoO from the table. [1.5+3]*0.5*33.5
= 76~

Round 3 Average Damage: 906 (785, see below)

===============

Reposition AoO and Crit AoO chance.

1st/2nd Attack, round 2:
Chance to confirm a critical hit: 50.49%
Chance to confirm a critical hit and reposition: 44.75%

3rd Attack, round 2:
Chance to confirm a critical hit: 44.75%
Chance to confirm a critical hit and reposition: 32.64%

4th Attack, round 2:
Chance to confirm a critical hit: 32.64%
Chance to confirm a critical hit and reposition: 14.15%

The following are approximations

The average dmg of the 1st and 2nd attack is lowered by around 12.6 and 10.5, respectively.

The average dmg of the 3rd and 4th attack is lowered by around 34 and 64, respectively.

===============

Animal Companion:

Straight damage:
8 x [(11.05)+(0.91)]
= 95~

Crit-chains (value 2)
8 * [0.065] * ( [11.96] + [118.5] )
= 62~

Animal Companion average damage: 157

===============

Round 3 Total Damage: 942

***

Total Damage in round 1,2 and 3:
2731

The real value is higher, but it's gonna be an even more [female dog] to calculate. If Slim Jim upstages me again, I'll have to grudgingly dive into it.


With respect to the Handle Animal issue, I am not sure that Ping needs to use handle animal at all. Pong to a +1 to Int as a stat increase, and thus has an intelligence of 3 - human level int, if extremely stupid. You can pre-plan and explain/discuss his combat tactics with/to him - and he can follow through...

Also, I think Pong's attack bonus is too high by 1. Huge is a -2 penalty, not a -1.


I hope this is correctly done. Please note that I've never participated in one of these before so if I messed up let me know and I'll fix it.

Halfling (For the +1 to hit small size bonus)
Ninja 2 / Cross Blooded Sorcerer 4 / Arcane Trickster 6

BaB: 6/1
Ranged Touch attack: +18 (This is with point blank shot on)

Items: Ioune Stone (Orange) +1 caster level, Rod of Quicken Metamagic Lesser /3x day, Belt of incredible dexterity +6.

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus: Ray, Acomplished Sneak attacker (+1d6 sneak attack), Empower Spell, Maximize spell.

Traits: Wayang hunter, Magical lineage (Both for scorching ray) so scorching ray costs 2 less for metamagic adjustments.

Stats: Str: 8, Dex: 28 (+9), con: 10, Int: 10, Wis: 10, Char: 16 (+3)

Pre combat buff: sense vitals (+3d6 sneak attack for 11 rounds)
Round 1: Five foot step back, Swift Action: Ninja trick vanish, Empowered Maximized scorching ray: 3 rays dealing 6d6+18 dmg each + 8d6 sneak attack damage on each ray, followed by another Empowered Maximized Scorching ray with the quickened metamagic lesser rod

6d6+18 (Maximized) = 54 x 3 =162 +1 per ray from point blank shot = 165 + 8d6 sneak attack damage (avg 3 dmg) = +24 dmg per ray (+72) = 237 dmg on the first volley and 237 on the second.

I think the average damage I'll do a round ignoring crits is 22515 x 2 = 450.3 dpr.

Liberty's Edge

GM's decisions:

1) You may draw a weapon as part of a move action so long as the antics in question make logical sense.

2) A sidekick's reach may be used to avoid enemy attacks of opportunity as normal while making attacks, but not to attend to an allied PC pinned under the monster in Round 3 without suffering an attack of opportunity (unless the sidekick has a means of avoiding these), or use its reach to claim having met the adjacency requirements of other effects and abilities (e.g., Outflank, the Ferocious Beast rage-power, etc).

4) The Escape Route teamwork feat's benefit shuts off if you're not capable of "watching your ally's back and providing cover".

4) In Round 3, your PC is pinned by the weight of the monster sitting on him. Allied effects intended to eliminate a condition or transfer a condition from one ally to another will fail to eliminate or transfer this pinned condition if they do not involve moving or lifting the monster off the PC by some means.


Jaxtor wrote:

I hope this is correctly done. Please note that I've never participated in one of these before so if I messed up let me know and I'll fix it.

Halfling (For the +1 to hit small size bonus)
Ninja 2 / Cross Blooded Sorcerer 4 / Arcane Trickster 6

BaB: 6/1
Ranged Touch attack: +18 (This is with point blank shot on)

Items: Ioune Stone (Orange) +1 caster level, Rod of Quicken Metamagic Lesser /3x day, Belt of incredible dexterity +6.

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus: Ray, Acomplished Sneak attacker (+1d6 sneak attack), Empower Spell, Maximize spell.

Traits: Wayang hunter, Magical lineage (Both for scorching ray) so scorching ray costs 2 less for metamagic adjustments.

Stats: Str: 8, Dex: 28 (+9), con: 10, Int: 10, Wis: 10, Char: 16 (+3)

Pre combat buff: sense vitals (+3d6 sneak attack for 11 rounds)
Round 1: Five foot step back, Swift Action: Ninja trick vanish, Empowered Maximized scorching ray: 3 rays dealing 6d6+18 dmg each + 8d6 sneak attack damage on each ray, followed by another Empowered Maximized Scorching ray with the quickened metamagic lesser rod

6d6+18 (Maximized) = 54 x 3 =162 +1 per ray from point blank shot = 165 + 8d6 sneak attack damage (avg 3 dmg) = +24 dmg per ray (+72) = 237 dmg on the first volley and 237 on the second.

I think the average damage I'll do a round ignoring crits is 22515 x 2 = 450.3 dpr.

You've got a quickened spell and ninja trick as swift in same round.


Cavall wrote:
Jaxtor wrote:

I hope this is correctly done. Please note that I've never participated in one of these before so if I messed up let me know and I'll fix it.

Halfling (For the +1 to hit small size bonus)
Ninja 2 / Cross Blooded Sorcerer 4 / Arcane Trickster 6

BaB: 6/1
Ranged Touch attack: +18 (This is with point blank shot on)

Items: Ioune Stone (Orange) +1 caster level, Rod of Quicken Metamagic Lesser /3x day, Belt of incredible dexterity +6.

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus: Ray, Acomplished Sneak attacker (+1d6 sneak attack), Empower Spell, Maximize spell.

Traits: Wayang hunter, Magical lineage (Both for scorching ray) so scorching ray costs 2 less for metamagic adjustments.

Stats: Str: 8, Dex: 28 (+9), con: 10, Int: 10, Wis: 10, Char: 16 (+3)

Pre combat buff: sense vitals (+3d6 sneak attack for 11 rounds)
Round 1: Five foot step back, Swift Action: Ninja trick vanish, Empowered Maximized scorching ray: 3 rays dealing 6d6+18 dmg each + 8d6 sneak attack damage on each ray, followed by another Empowered Maximized Scorching ray with the quickened metamagic lesser rod

6d6+18 (Maximized) = 54 x 3 =162 +1 per ray from point blank shot = 165 + 8d6 sneak attack damage (avg 3 dmg) = +24 dmg per ray (+72) = 237 dmg on the first volley and 237 on the second.

I think the average damage I'll do a round ignoring crits is 22515 x 2 = 450.3 dpr.

You've got a quickened spell and ninja trick as swift in same round.

I thought the quickened spell made it a free action but you are correct it is a swift action.


@Jaxtor

There's also This FAQ that prevents you from adding Sneak Attack on all three rays.

==================

Mike Schneider wrote:
2) A sidekick's reach may be used to avoid enemy attacks of opportunity as normal while making attacks, but not to attend to an allied PC pinned under the monster in Round 3 without suffering an attack of opportunity (unless the sidekick has a means of avoiding these),

So what is the ruling here, exactly?

A: If you use an ability that provokes AoO's while outside of the monster's reach, it's still capable of attacking.

B: If you attempt to aid the pinned ally, effects that normally doesn't provoke AoO's will now provoke.

C: You can't reach your ally under the monster if you're not adjacent.

If it's A, it doesn't affect my tactic. But I'm guessing I'm not that lucky.

***

Mike Schneider wrote:
or use its reach to claim having met the adjacency requirements of other effects and abilities (e.g., Outflank, the Ferocious Beast rage-power, etc).

The Ferocious Beast rage-power can be used on your animal companion even when you're not adjacent, so I don't think anyone was doing anything of the sort.

***

Mike Schneider wrote:
4) In Round 3, your PC is pinned by the weight of the monster sitting on him. Allied effects intended to eliminate a condition or transfer a condition from one ally to another will fail to eliminate or transfer this pinned condition if they do not involve moving or lifting the monster off the PC by some means.

You mean that literal magic will fail because it doesn't follow the laws of physics?

Binding Ties (Su):
As a standard action, you can touch an ally and remove one condition affecting the ally by transferring it to yourself. This transfer lasts a number of rounds equal to your cleric level, but you can end it as a free action on your turn. At the end of this effect, the condition reverts to the original creature, unless it has ended or is removed by another effect. While this power is in use, the target is immune to the transferred condition. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.


(Resubmitting with a fix in the action economy) Also I'm not 100% on how to determine my % to hit but unless I roll a 1 I hit so I'm just going with .95 as my to hit number

Halfling (For the +1 to hit small size bonus)
Ninja 2 / Cross Blooded Sorcerer 4 / Arcane Trickster 6

BaB: 6/1
Ranged Touch attack: +18 (This is with point blank shot on)

Items: Ioune Stone (Orange) +1 caster level, Rod of Quicken Metamagic Lesser /3x day, Belt of incredible dexterity +6.

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, (Ninja trick weapon training) Weapon Focus: Ray, Acomplished Sneak attacker (+1d6 sneak attack), Empower Spell, Maximize spell, Deadly Aim.

Traits: Wayang hunter, Magical lineage (Both for scorching ray) so scorching ray costs 2 less for metamagic adjustments.

Stats: Str: 8, Dex: 28 (+9), con: 10, Int: 10, Wis: 10, Char: 16 (+3)

Pre combat buff: Invisibility, Greater (11 rounds)
Round 1: Five foot step back, Empowered Maximized scorching ray: 3 rays dealing 6d6+18 dmg each + 5d6 sneak attack damage on each ray, followed by another Empowered Maximized Scorching ray with the quickened metamagic lesser rod

Using deadly aim -2 to hit = +16 to ranged touch attack (to hit avg should be .94)

6d6+18+4 deadly aim (Maximized) = 58 x 3 =174 +1 per ray from point blank shot = 177 + 5d6 sneak attack damage (avg 3 dmg) = +15 dmg per ray (+45) = 222 dmg on the first volley and 222 on the second.

I think the average damage I'll do a round ignoring crits is 222*.94 = 210.9 x 2 volleys = 421 dmg

Liberty's Edge

Wonderstell wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:
4) In Round 3, your PC is pinned by the weight of the monster sitting on him. Allied effects intended to eliminate a condition or transfer a condition from one ally to another will fail to eliminate or transfer this pinned condition if they do not involve moving or lifting the monster off the PC by some means.
You mean that literal magic will fail because it doesn't follow the laws of physics?

The GM rules that the presence of a hostile third party of indeterminate CR rating in the teens inhibits your ally's ministrations of a 1st-level domain power regards that particular condition. This monster's chew-toy is an attended object. DC 35 to say otherwise.

(Even if I were to allow removing the pinned condition without moving the monster, I would disallow standing up as a swift or free action, as moving "upward" one square in normal circumstances counts as two squares of movement while squeezed. And let's make that official: Your PC is subject to Squeezing movement rules in Round 3.)


15 (Ranks+Class) +3 (Empathic Diplomat) +2 (Ioun Stone)
+20 Diplomacy Modifier, roll two D20's.

Diplomacy: 1d20 + 20 ⇒ (16) + 20 = 361d20 + 20 ⇒ (7) + 20 = 27

========

This is getting out of hand.
The whole idea with society play is that everyone is playing with the same rules, and the same options. Round 3 has gone further and further into houserule territory to the point that it's in clear violation of existing rules.

Ending Your Movement wrote:
You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.
Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space wrote:
Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it’s not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there’s a legal position that’s closer.

Then add the arbitrary disallowance of class abilities because "The GM" doesn't like that they work, or the complete dismissal of certain rules, and we're obviously not playing PFS.

I'm tired of jumping through hoops just because I can't satisfy your view of how the game is played, so this will be my last contribution.

========

Mazon:
Bloodrider / Urban/ Id Rager 1
1 Anger Focus, Paired Opportunist, Power Attack (B)

Brawler 1
2 Martial Flexibility

Cavalier (Order of the Seal) 1-4
3 Combat Expertise, Pack Flanking (B), Mount
4
5 Outflank
6 Skill Focus: Handle Animal (B)

Mutation Warrior/High Guardian Fighter 1-3
7 Horse Master
8 Combat Reflexes (B), Defender's Reflexes
9 Beast Rider (Pteranodon), Mutagen

Brawler 2
10 Improved Reposition (B)

Ulfen Guard 1
11 Greater Reposition, Guard Dedication (Quick Reflexes Rage Power)

Cleric Sacred Huntsmaster 1
12. Luck Domain

****

The change to Inquisitor allows our Animal Companion to take the Auspice archetype, giving it another use of Bit of Luck.

With our new Standard Action in round 1, we'll activate Mutagen while choosing Enlarge Person + Long Arm as our chosen buffs.

We'll use an Elven Curve Blade to avoid the donut effect, and challenge instead of standing up as a swift in round 3. (no penalty thanks to Monkey Style)

Total number of Attack of Opportunities per round: 15 + Fortuitous

Round 1: 738 dmg
Round 2: 1320 dmg
Round 3: 1152 dmg

***

3200+ damage. Goodbye Mazon.


pad300 wrote:
I think Pong's attack bonus is too high by 1. Huge is a -2 penalty, not a -1.

Grr. That'll have to get fixed.

Wonderstell wrote:
...items...

Curious why you bought a Hand of Glory when you have only two rings.


Slim Jim wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:
...items...
Curious why you bought a Hand of Glory when you have only two rings.

Oh, it's for my mount.

I wanted it to share a feat with the Ring of Tactical Precision, but it doesn't have a ring slot unless I pay for it with the Extra Item Slot feat.
So that's the workaround. The mount puts on the amulet at breakfast and attunes Outflank/Paired Opportunist to the ring, then the rider uses it.

Liberty's Edge

Wonderstell wrote:
This is getting out of hand. The whole idea with society play is that everyone is playing with the same rules, and the same options.
Everyone is playing with the same rules: the rules of this DPR Arena, which change from time to time in order to bring fresh and exciting new spectacles to eager fans - and this aspect has been a feature of the contest since the thread began.
Quote:
Round 3 has gone further and further into houserule territory...

<new sign hung up in arena registration>

"All contestants are hereby advised that arena combat does not constitute playing a real PFS game. This is a solo endeavor. No chronicle sheets or boons well be awarded, only the adulation of the crowd for victory! Please see the attendant if entry forms have run out."

Quote:
to the point that it's in clear violation of existing rules.
Ending Your Movement wrote:
You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.
I know of at least two archetypes that are capable of doing exactly that without feats or items, to say nothing of monsters.
Quote:
I'm tired of jumping through hoops just because I can't satisfy your view of how the game is played, so this will be my last contribution.

Both arena officials and fans are confused by this latest turn of events; they've never seen a sour winner before.

At 3200, you're blowing the competition away.


Mike Schneider wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:
This is getting out of hand. The whole idea with society play is that everyone is playing with the same rules, and the same options.
Everyone is playing with the same rules: the rules of this DPR Arena, which change from time to time in order to bring fresh and exciting new spectacles to eager fans - and this aspect has been a feature of the contest since the thread began.

Fair enough. I can't really blame you for "ruling" when it's your own contest.

If you didn't, this thread would've devolved into rules arguments rather quickly.


Quote:
We'll use an Elven Curve Blade to avoid the donut effect, and challenge instead of standing up as a swift in round 3. (no penalty thanks to Monkey Style.

What is the "donut effect"?

Btw, I got hung up on a build with Style feats awhile back, as they need an initial swift action to activate their "stance". (You may have accounted for that already in the earlier iteration; I'm just dashing through new posts and not seeing everything.)


Slim Jim wrote:
Quote:
We'll use an Elven Curve Blade to avoid the donut effect, and challenge instead of standing up as a swift in round 3. (no penalty thanks to Monkey Style.
What is the "donut effect"?

The Donut effect is what happens when you have a reach weapon. You get that ring where you threaten and a hole where you don't.

It's not a big problem when you're medium sized since you can 5-ft step to full-attack, but if you're large+ you'll have to use a move action.

Slim Jim wrote:
Btw, I got hung up on a build with Style feats awhile back, as they need an initial swift action to activate their "stance". (You may have accounted for that already in the earlier iteration; I'm just dashing through new posts and not seeing everything.)

Yeah, luckily my swift is free in the first round.

Check out Combat Style Master if you want to enter styles as free actions. Makes it possible to switch between defensive/offensive styles during the same round, or just enter all styles as free if you're a MoMS monk.


Wonderstell wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:
...items...
Curious why you bought a Hand of Glory when you have only two rings.

Oh, it's for my mount.

I wanted it to share a feat with the Ring of Tactical Precision, but it doesn't have a ring slot unless I pay for it with the Extra Item Slot feat.
So that's the workaround. The mount puts on the amulet at breakfast and attunes Outflank/Paired Opportunist to the ring, then the rider uses it.

Wouldn't a Horsemaster's Saddle do just as well for this purpose?


Kaouse wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:
...items...
Curious why you bought a Hand of Glory when you have only two rings.

Oh, it's for my mount.

I wanted it to share a feat with the Ring of Tactical Precision, but it doesn't have a ring slot unless I pay for it with the Extra Item Slot feat.
So that's the workaround. The mount puts on the amulet at breakfast and attunes Outflank/Paired Opportunist to the ring, then the rider uses it.

Wouldn't a Horsemaster's Saddle do just as well for this purpose?

Great item. I used it in previous iterations of the build, but I couldn't find a way to Fast Mount into the saddle in round 3.

Maxed Ranks, Sickened/Shaken and out of the saddle I'm suffering from ACP (prob -5) and won't get the +5 competence from the Saddle. A total bonus of +6 vs DC 20 isn't what I'd call reliable.
And then we'd also have to find some way to stand up as a free/swift without getting smacked into next week by provoking an AoO.

***

I'm not teaching my Mount a teamwork feat. The Mount is teaching me Outflank so I can take the Monkey Style feat.

So I'd use the saddle if you started round 3 in the saddle, no doubt.
As it is, my Mount would forget the teamwork feats while I'm laying on the ground, sad and prone.

Also, the ring does raise both the mount and rider's attack bonus.


Combat Style Master has two style feats as prerequisites, and non-permanent bonuses can't be used to satisfy feat prerequisites in PFS (that last part annoying me to no end).


Looking back at my posts, it feels like I'm deliberately vague just to confuse everyone.

Quote:
Yeah, luckily my swift is free in the first round.

->

Quote:
Yeah, luckily my swift action in the first round wasn't being used for anything.

Kinda dumb to say 'free' when I in the very next sentence talk about how to enter styles as a free action instead of a swift action.

***

Quote:
The Mount is teaching me Outflank so I can take the Monkey Style feat.

->

Quote:
The Mount is teaching me Outflank so I can take Monkey Style in place of that feat.

****

Re Combat Style Master

Yup. So it's basically a feat tax of two if you didn't plan on using more than one style.
But if you're planning on dipping into MoMS it's pretty valuable since you'd otherwise need two rounds before both your styles are active.

Liberty's Edge

Speaking of being confusing, vague, and neglectful, I note that I have not relisted the challenge parameters in several pages, and appear to have forgotten entirely one aspect that was always part of the challenge (or at least I had thought it was): you take damage over the course of the contest. At the end of the monster turns of Rounds 1 and 2, you (and any associates) are down 35 hitpoints, cumulative (so -70 total). If this puts you under 0hp at the end of monster-turn Round 2, the challenge ends for you there.

As most entries are raging martials, that shouldn't present a problem, but it may for summoned creatures, or for builds severely shorting Con, employing Vicious weaponry, etc.


We get hit, eh?

I can make that work; all I need is a little time in the lab....

Liberty's Edge

Link broke...?


Nope. *Gone*, and howabout that, now? *sigh*

(Am hating two websites simultaneously right now....)

Grand Lodge

Slim Jim wrote:

Nope. *Gone*, and howabout that, now? *sigh*

(Am hating two websites simultaneously right now....)

This is an optimization thread. If you try hard enough I bet you could hate like 5 or 6 the internet is a big place.

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