The PFS DPR Olympics 12th level challenge reboot -- Squishies welcome!


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Liberty's Edge

Quote:
Quote:
I don't play PFS. This is the Pathfinder advice forum.
That was one of the rules put forward in the original post, characters must be PFS legal.

Since I have the top of this page, let's recap the now-slightly-updated PFS DPR Olympics rules:

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"Journey with us once more into the land of module-play, where post-retirement mayhem awaits!"

* Attributes: 20pt-buy pre-racial. You have three more level bumps by 12th. Build must be PFS legal.

* Build: it would be nice to see all levels in your build (with order feats taken in, class variants chosen, final HP and save totals, etc), but it is not required.

* Equipment: you have 110,000gp to spend, no more than a third of it in one object.

* Prep time:
- You are not surprised and have one full round to prepare.
- Your allies are "selfish"; no one assists you.
- You may have one preexisting intermediate-duration buff (1min/lvl up to half-hour) and one long-term (10min/lvl or greater) buff already in-effect prior to the prep round.
- You do not see the enemy during the prep round and do not know from what direction they will be arriving; abilities or spells that require an opponent-in-sight will therefore not work unless they can be deployed as or in conjunction with readied-actions.
- The prep round exists to get buffs or summons up-to-speed, and/or readied-actions good-to-go, nothing more.

* Bad-guy turn: a large opponent with 10' reach moves up to 10' away on its turn and strikes you for damage. AC 30, Touch 15, Flat 23. If you have buffs, items or abilities which generate one or more AoOs in this scenario, take them.

* Your turn: Take a full action. You are at the edge of the opponent's reach, and it threatens. Any check you make against it is versus opposed 35 (skills, CMD, resistance, whatever). There is no difficult terrain or nearby cover.

-- That's it. Tally up. If your character has "tricks" (sneak-attack, favored-enemy, favored terrain, trips on AoOs, has Smite, Bane enhancements, etc), compute damage twice: once for nothing-is-applicable and once for opponent-eats-everything-ya-got. If you think you can do it, do it.

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Damage/round formula: h(d+s)+tf(cd+cb+r)

h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage. This doesn't exceed .95 (unless you autohit for whatever reason) and never goes below .05.
d = Normal damage. This is any damage that happens any time you hit.
s = Damage which isn't multiplied on a crit. "s" stands for sneak attack, but this also includes elemental/alignment properties on weapons, precision damage, manyshot damage, and so on.
t = Chance to roll a threat. This is the threat range of your weapon or your chance to hit, whichever is lower.
f = This is your chance to confirm a threat. Most of the time, this is equal to h. If you have Critical Focus, it's (h+.2) or .95, whichever is higher. If you auto-confirm crits, as with a level 20 fighter or Bless Weapon, this is 1.
c = This is the number of bonus multiples you get from a crit. A 2x crit weapon is 1, a 3x crit weapon is 2, etc.

-- Remember to subtract one from your crit multiplier, or your damage will be over-done in the formula!

b = This is elemental burst damage, such as from fiery burst weapons and thundering. Such enhancements self-multiply based on your crit multiplier; if they don't, then they're added to r and not b.
r = This is fixed bonus damage dealt on a crit. No such abilities exist in PF core, to my knowledge.

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Character construction:

What is allowed in PFS? A quick way to determine if a feature is permitted is to toss its name plus "nethys" into a search-engine, whereupon its listing at the Archives of Nethys will be found, and if the Pathfinder Society's round Glyph of the Open Road logo is displayed, the feature is very probably legal. For example, the feat Two-Weapon Fighting is PFS-legal. There are corner-cases, however, and these may have a red circle around the logo; this means that the campaign has issued a ruling which modifies unrestricted access. If the feature you found at Nethys doesn't sport the PFS logo, it's probably not PFS-legal.

-- That said, new material is introduced continuously and previously-legal old material is occasionally proscribed, and not even the indefatigable stalwarts helming Nethys can keep up. So here's the follow-up trick: Nethys will provide the name of the book or books in which the feature has appeared. Which that knowledge, head over to Pathfinder Society's Additional Resources page and scan down for that book. If your feature (or, more often, its umbrella category) is listed as legal, you're good to go.

Another great site aiding in character-generation is d20pfsrd. It does not indicate PFS-legality (note that all non-Paizo material is unapproved), but is very easy to navigate and quickly explore options.

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* Final thread rule: We're here to have fun kickin' monster butt! Please keep the signal-to-noise ratio positive. No critiquing until you've posted a build (error-correcting permitted).

Liberty's Edge

So, I'm pretty sure the following build meets criteria.

Halfling fisticuffs fighter (watch out, he's a biter)

build:
Halfling Urban Blood Conduit Bloodrager 1/ Medium 1/ Mutation Warrior Fighter 10

Str 10
Dex 18 + 3 level + 6 enhancement + 4 moral + 4 alchemical = 34
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 14
Cha 09

Traits : Quain Martial Artist, Fate's Favored

1 Bloodrager :Weapon Finesse, Improved Unarmed Strike, Controlled Bloodrage, Angelic Strikes
2 Medium :Knacks, Spirit, Spirit Bonus +1, Spirit Surge 1d6, Spirit Power (lesser)
3 Fighter :Two Weapon Fighting, Piranha Strike
4 Fighter :Weapon Focus (unarmed strike), Bravery +1
5 Fighter :Risky Striker, Mutagen
6 Fighter :Spirit Focus (champion)
7 Fighter :Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Training 1 (natural)
8 Fighter :Weapon Specialization (unarmed strike), Bravery +2
9 Fighter :Advanced Weapon Training (focused weapon), Mutagen Discovery (feral mutagen)
10 Fighter :Greater Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)
11 Fighter :Celestial Obedience (Falayna), Weapon Training 2, Advanced Weapon Training (Weapon Specialization: Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization)
12 Fighter :Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Bravery +3

Equipment:
+1 brawling Haramaki
Agile Furious amulet of mighty fists
Boots of speed
Cracked Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone
Gloves of Dueling
Belt of Dexterity +6
Helm of the Mammoth Lord
Potion of Good Hope

AC : 20, or 23 when buffed/using risky striker

Fort : 12, 14 buffed
Ref : 9, 15 buffed
Will : 6, 7 buffed, plus bravery

To Hit: 11 BAB, 12 from dexterity, 1 from size small, 2 weapon focus (assuming only 1 applies to natural weapons), 4 luck from divine favor, 2 to unarmed strikes from brawling, 1 from haste, 1 competence from Ioun stone, 2 morale from good hope, 4 from weapon training, 2 from spirit bonus, 2 from furious enchantment, -2 from two weapon fighting, -3 from pirahna strike. Should be a grand total of 39/34/29 for unarmed strikes and 31 for natural attacks.

Damage: 12/6 from dexterity, 2 from weapon specialization, 1 to unarmed for Quain martial artist, 4 from divine favor, 2 to unarmed from brawling, 2 from good hope, 4 from weapon training, 4 from spirit bonus/seance bonus, 2 from furious, 6/3 from piranha strike, 6 from risky striker, and average weapon damage. Unarmed = 4.5, bite = 3.5, claws/gore = 2.5. All totaled should be average of
Unarmed strike = 48.5
Bite = 36.5
Claws/Gore = 35.5

the fight:
So, for the 1 min/lvl buff we're allowed to have going we're going with good hope. The 10 min/lvl is going to be our mutagen. First round we use the divine favor SLA and pretty much just let the bad guy walk up and hit us. Once we act again free action rage, free action click our heels, 5 foot step next to the enemy and start kicking, clawing, biting.
the damage:
So, we've got 7 unarmed strikes plus bite, gore and 2 claws. Every attack hits on a 2 and is a x2 crit.
unarmed strikes = 6.65(48.5)+.3325(48.5) = 338.65
Bite = .95(36.5)+.475(36.5) = 36.4
Claws/gore = 2.85(35.5)+.1425(35.5) = 106.24
Grand total should be 481.28 damage. Even with DR 10/- it's still around 370 damage. If the enemy is an evil outsider, tack on another 36.58 damage, for 517.86.
As you can probably tell from the saves and AC, this build is pretty much just for this thread, but isn't too far off a playable build. A couple more resource into AC and saves, with a few less into accuracy and damage and it's entirely playable. You probably also want extra rage sometime in the build so you can do that more than once or twice a day. Still, pretty good for a character who starts off dealing 1d2+1 damage on his main schtick.

Liberty's Edge

Mike Schneider wrote:
Quote:
Every attack hits on a 2 and is a x2 crit.
...how are you achieving auto-crits?

Sorry, phrased that badly. Was already getting pretty late when posting. Just meant to say that they threaten on a 20, and are only a x2 critical. The math is still based on the regular damage formula with a 1 in 20 chance for critical threat with a 95% chance to confirm.

Liberty's Edge

Deighton Thrane wrote:

Traits : Quain Martial Artist, Fate's Favored

1 Bloodrager :Weapon Finesse, Improved Unarmed Strike, Controlled Bloodrage, Angelic Strikes

What is "Angelic Strikes"? (I assume you meant Angelic Attacks from the Celestial bloodline.)
Quote:
To Hit: 11 BAB, 12 from dexterity, 1 from size small, 2 weapon focus (assuming only 1 applies to natural weapons), 4 luck from divine favor, 2 to unarmed strikes from brawling, 1 from haste, 1 competence from Ioun stone, 2 morale from good hope, 4 from weapon training, 2 from spirit bonus, 2 from furious enchantment, -2 from two weapon fighting, -3 from pirahna strike. Should be a grand total of 39/34/29 for unarmed strikes and 31 for natural attacks.

How are you getting a +4 Luck bonus from Divine Favor? (I see Celestial Obedience (Falayna) granting you the spell, but how are you getting your caster level in it up to 6th (for a +3 bonus before Fate's Favored's +1 additional)?

Liberty's Edge

Mike Schneider wrote:
Deighton Thrane wrote:

Traits : Quain Martial Artist, Fate's Favored

1 Bloodrager :Weapon Finesse, Improved Unarmed Strike, Controlled Bloodrage, Angelic Strikes

What is "Angelic Strikes"? (I assume you meant Angelic Attacks from the Celestial bloodline.)
Quote:
To Hit: 11 BAB, 12 from dexterity, 1 from size small, 2 weapon focus (assuming only 1 applies to natural weapons), 4 luck from divine favor, 2 to unarmed strikes from brawling, 1 from haste, 1 competence from Ioun stone, 2 morale from good hope, 4 from weapon training, 2 from spirit bonus, 2 from furious enchantment, -2 from two weapon fighting, -3 from pirahna strike. Should be a grand total of 39/34/29 for unarmed strikes and 31 for natural attacks.
How are you getting a +4 Luck bonus from Divine Favor? (I see Celestial Obedience (Falayna) granting you the spell, but how are you getting your caster level in it up to 6th (for a +3 bonus before Fate's Favored's +1 additional)?

Yeah, it's supposed to be angelic attacks. And the celestial obedience thing isn't class based, and doesn't specify a caster level. In those cases the general rule is to use hit dice as caster level for SLAs.

Liberty's Edge

Quote:
Damage: 12/6 from dexterity, 2 from weapon specialization, 1 to unarmed for Quain martial artist, 4 from divine favor, 2 to unarmed from brawling, 2 from good hope, 4 from weapon training, 4 from spirit bonus/seance bonus, 2 from furious, 6/3 from piranha strike, 6 from risky striker, and average weapon damage. Unarmed = 4.5, bite = 3.5, claws/gore = 2.5.

How are you getting +4 to damage from a single level of Medium?

Liberty's Edge

+2 to non-spell damage from the champion spirit ability (it gives the seance boon at first level). Then another +1 to attack and non-spell damage from spirit bonus. Then the Spirit Focus (champion) feat increases the bonus from spirit bonus by another +1.

Liberty's Edge

Contestants please note: Potions of Good Hope are 1,050gp, which is 300 over the contest limit. (By 12th, I'd wager scrolls of Heal and Breath of Life are in most PC's emergency pack, but four-digit-cost buff potions are unlikely. I also had to draw the line somewhere because I didn't want people indulging silliness like 3,000gp GMW+5s, so I set the limit at 750, a common number for 3rd-level spells in a bottle.)

= = = = =

Assuming Deighton Thrane's halfling pugilist swaps his potion of Good Hope for Heroism instead (they're the same except for the damage bonus), reducing damage slightly to 467 (481-14), he is nevertheless wearing the DPR Crown for the time being.

Until someone takes it from him.

(How about *you* out there? Can you take it from him?
-- Are you man enough to take it? From a halfling?)


Mike Schneider wrote:

Contestants please note: Potions of Good Hope are 1,050gp, which is 300 over the contest limit. (By 12th, I'd wager scrolls of Heal and Breath of Life are in most PC's emergency pack, but four-digit-cost buff potions are unlikely. I also had to draw the line somewhere because I didn't want people indulging silliness like 3,000gp GMW+5s, so I set the limit at 750, a common number for 3rd-level spells in a bottle.)

= = = = =

Assuming Deighton Thrane's halfling pugilist swaps his potion of Good Hope for Heroism instead (they're the same except for the damage bonus), reducing damage slightly to 467 (481-14), he is nevertheless wearing the DPR Crown for the time being.

Until someone takes it from him.

(How about *you* out there? Can you take it from him?
-- Are you man enough to take it? From a halfling?)

What about AVR's Pyrokineticist?

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mis1&page=2?The-PFS-DPR-Olympics-12th-leve l-challenge#64

Liberty's Edge

<squint><scrollback thru thread><yikes!>

Um, wow... another fine entry from the Book of Super OP Occult Adventures, I see....

Sorry, Deighton; you had the crown on your head for a second, but then this other halfling came up and melted you into a bubbling puddle of blue flaming goo, and swiped it.

...then again, maybe not: I know almost zilch about the kineticist class (I've only been reading up on it since your reply), but I did note this posted line in AVR's entry: "...Burn 5 due to not gathering power, so use the internal buffer to reduce it by 2... ...and I'm not sure how she's doing that as a 12th level character when it looks like the class is limited to accepting 4 burn per round at that level, and can't spend more than one point with the internal buffer per single wild talent. But that class has more moving parts than a Swiss watch, so I'll leave it to someone else to pick at. (งツ)ว

If AVR forgoes the AoO on the monster's turn (so she doesn't have to roast all that burn turning her weapon-with-the-incredibly-long-name back on), then she does, as she stated, about 404 in damage in the main round.

Given that Deighton's puncher did all of his damage in the main round (deliberately forfeiting AoOs or readies), by judge's decision I'm letting him keep the crown for dishing out the most in a single full-attack.

For the moment....


Occult adventures isn't OP lol xD the classes are generally a little behind the curve I find. Being able to nova out 400 Damage+ at level 12 isn't OP its pointless overkill and in the case of the Kineticist a absolutely mind melting waste of resources.

As for whether it works.

Action round 3 burn is taken turning on the whip, which is fine.

Turning the whip on again takes 5, so the buffer is used which is again fine

Quote:
Similarly, this buffer can be used to exceed the limit on the number of points of burn the kineticist can accept in a single turn.

that is from the PFSRD. I think there is potentially one mistake in that 2 points from the buffer are being used for one talent when you can only use one per wild talent, so it should be reduced to using 4 burn, not 3. Still totally legal mind you.

I don't see why the Aoo build wouldn't count towards the damage, based off how the monster operates it would, since it can't be 5ft stepping into threat, otherwise most characters would do so on the prep round to take an extra full attack. Unless you're precluding Aoo builds for some other reason.


Mike, could you put a value on the to-hit roll for the attacking monster in the scenario - it would make a lot of math/build stuff easier to figure, eg Opportune Parry & Riposte.

Given you have assumed an ac of 30, would an attack bonus of +24 (ie a CR 15 from here http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/monsterCreation.html ) be appropriate, and assume a 15 for the to hit roll = a 39 attack roll?


it would be good to know the things to hit. In case someone wants to make a snake strike build for example.

Liberty's Edge

In keeping with everything else about the monster that isn't AC, its attack is +35.

I'll double that for its move range: 70.


well thats oddly high for anything a level 12 would have to deal with. O.o


Mike Schneider wrote:

In keeping with everything else about the monster that isn't AC, its attack is +35.

I'll double that for its move range: 70.

Above you state "Any check you make against it is versus opposed 35". Does that mean the attack roll is D20+35, or is it just 35?

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

35 total would be a good average number. +35 is high.

Liberty's Edge

pad300 wrote:
Any check you make against it is versus opposed 35". Does that mean the attack roll is D20+35, or is it just 35?

Modify my previous post with: "It hits AC35".


Alright, I learned me a few tricks from others, and I give you Stabby with extra cheese... He doesn't take the crown from the Pyro, but is sufficiently cheesy to pass Deighton's bitey little git

The Build:
Stabby McStabface with Extra Cheese

Race Human

Str 10
Dex 17 (+2 Racial) (+3 Lvl 4,8,12) = 22 +6 enhancement = 28
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 14

Traits & Drawbacks
River rat, Accelerated Consume

Skills : (4+1 (human) )
Perception, UMD, Intimidate, Acrobatics, Sense Motive

Medium (1), Relic Channeler: Spirit, Spirit Bonus (+1), Spirit Power (lesser), Spirit Surge (1d6)
Swashbuckler (1), Flying Blade: Deeds (Derring-Do, Subtle Throw, Opportune Parry and Riposte), Panache(2), Swashbuckler Finesse
Swashbuckler (2), Flying Blade: Charmed Life (3/day)
Swashbuckler (3), Flying Blade: Deeds (Disrupting Counter, Precise Throw, Precise Strike, Swashbuckler Initiative), Nimble (+1)
Swashbuckler (4), Flying Blade: (Bonus Feat, see feats)
Swashbuckler (5), Flying Blade: Flying Blade Training +1
Swashbuckler (6), Flying Blade: Charmed Life (4/day)
Swashbuckler (7), Flying Blade: Deeds (Swashbuckler’s Grace, Superior Feint, Targeted Throw), Nimble (+2)
Swashbuckler (8), Flying Blade: (Bonus Feat, see feats)
Swashbuckler (9), Flying Blade: Flying Blade Training +2
Swashbuckler (10), Flying Blade: Charmed Life (5/day)
Swashbuckler (11), Flying Blade Deeds (Bleeding Wound, Evasive, Subtle Blade), Nimble (+3)

Feats
Spirit Focus (Champion) (1st)
Combat Reflexes (Human Bonus)
Point Blank Shot (3ed)
Weapon Focus (Dagger) (5th)
Quickdraw (Swash buckler 4th level bonus)
Piranha Strike (7th)
Startoss Style (9th)
Lunge (Swash buckler 8th level bonus)
Startoss Comet (11th)

Knacks (2)
Sift, Guidance

External Buffs: Long Arm (1 minute buff), Heroism (10 Minute Buff),

Equipment :
Boots of Speed (12000 gp),
Bloodcrystal Dagger+1 Agile Fortuitous schock (33802 gp),
Darkleaf Cloth Hide Armor +1 Spirit Binding (8515 gp)
Belt of Incredible Dexterity +6 (36000)
Cracked Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone (4000)
Potion of Heroism (750 gp)
Scroll of Long Arm (10th level) (250 gp)
Plume of Panache (1000 gp)
MW Throwing Dagger
Potion of Divine Favor, CL 9 (450 gp)
Deliquescent Gloves (8000gp)
Scabbard of Vigor (1800gp) (holding magic dagger)

BAB +11

Panache : 2 + 2 (Human FCB) + 1(Plume) = 5

Walks around with potion of divine favour in hand.

The Fight:
Active buffs: Heroism (up to 30min), Long arm (up to 10min).
Prep round: 1) Rapid consume potion of Divine Favor.(move action), 2) Draw MW dagger Free action (quickdraw), 2) Draw Magic Dagger from Scabbard of Vigor, choosing a +3 /3 round enhancement 4) ready action : attack with MW dagger by throwing at first enemy that closes to 20’ (standard action), 5) activate lunge and piranha strike (non-actions)
Enemy attack: 1) ready action (attack w/MW dagger by throwing) triggers when they are 20’ away 2) as they close to 10’, they trigger AoO #1 for leaving a threatened square (long arm + lunge). 3) if we hit with AoO #1, Fortuitous weapon property grants us another attack at -5. 4) In response to their attack, use Disrupting Counter (1 panache) to trigger AoO #2 (and Fortuitous has another chance to trigger) 5) Also in response to their attack trigger Opportune Parry and Riposte (1 panache), which if successful allows AoO #3 (as an immediate action and another chance to trigger fortuitous)
On the first hit in this round, trigger bleeding wound (1 panache) for a + 9 to dmg, and bloodcrystal dmg afterwards…
Our turn: 1) swift-action activate boots of speed for Haste . 2) Full attack with magic dagger (3 attacks +1 haste), trigger precise strike on the 2nd attack (to avoid miss chance from something like major displacement) for an extra 11 dmg (1 Panache).
This sequence spends a total of 4 panache if everything goes off, but may gain some via critical hits (or killing something…). He also has multiple spirit surges available in case of misses…

The Damage:

MW Thrown Dagger
To hit : 11 BAB + 9 Swashbuckler Finesse +1 (enhancement – MW ) + 1 Competence + 3 Spirit Bonus + 2 Flying Blade Training + 1 (weapon Focus) +2 Morale + 3 Luck +1 Point Blank Shot = +34
Damage : 1d4 +11 (Precise Strike) +2 (Flying Blade Training) + (5 Spirit Bonus) +1 (Trait, River Rat) +3 Luck + 9 (bleeding wound, assumed to trigger on this attack) + 1 Point Blank Shot +4 Startoss Style + d6 (Deliquescent Gloves). = 1d4 + 1d6 + 36.
AoO #1
To hit : 11 BAB + 9 Swashbuckler Finesse +3 (enhancement – MW ) + 1 Competence + 3 Spirit Bonus + 2 Flying Blade Training + 1 (weapon Focus) +2 Morale + 3 Luck -3 Piranha Strike = +32
Damage : 1d4 + 3 (enhancement ) +1 (Bloodcrystal) + 9 (Agile) +11 (Precise Strike) +2 (Flying Blade Training) + (5 Spirit Bonus) +1 (Trait, River Rat) +3 Luck +6 Piranha Strike +4 Startoss Style + d6 (Deliquescent Gloves). + d6 (shocking) = 1d4 +2d6 +45.
AoO #2
To hit : 11 BAB + 9 Swashbuckler Finesse +3 (enhancement – MW ) + 1 Competence + 3 Spirit Bonus + 2 Flying Blade Training + 1 (weapon Focus) +2 Morale + 3 Luck -3 Piranha Strike = +32
Damage : 1d4 + 3 (enhancement ) +1 (Bloodcrystal) + 9 (Agile) +11 (Precise Strike) +2 (Flying Blade Training) + (5 Spirit Bonus) +1 (Trait, River Rat) +3 Luck +6 Piranha Strike +4 Startoss Style + d6 (Deliquescent Gloves). + d6 (shocking) = 1d4 +2d6 +45. Also this inflicts a -4 to hit on the AC 35 to hit roll of the opponent.

Opportune Parry
To hit : 11 BAB + 9 Swashbuckler Finesse +3 (enhancement – MW ) + 1 Competence + 3 Spirit Bonus + 2 Flying Blade Training + 1 (weapon Focus) +2 Morale + 3 Luck -3 Piranha Strike = +32
Damage : Triggers AoO # 3 by forcing a miss! Probability of success is 95% (you fail on a 1 automatically. On a 3 or above you succeed 35 attack roll. On a 2 you Spirit surge for an extra 1d6 >= 1 , which makes it a success…)

AoO #3 ~95% probable to happen
To hit : 11 BAB + 9 Swashbuckler Finesse +3 (enhancement – MW ) + 1 Competence + 3 Spirit Bonus + 2 Flying Blade Training + 1 (weapon Focus) +2 Morale + 3 Luck -3 Piranha Strike = +32
Damage : 1d4 + 3 (enhancement ) +1 (Bloodcrystal) + 9 (Agile) +11 (Precise Strike) +2 (Flying Blade Training) + (5 Spirit Bonus) +1 (Trait, River Rat) +3 Luck +6 Piranha Strike +4 Startoss Style + d6 (Deliquescent Gloves). + d6 (shocking) = 1d4 +2d6 +45. * .95 (probability of occurrence)

Fortuitous Attack (it is assumed this triggers at some stage, probability of not doing so is <0.0003 )
To hit : 11 BAB + 9 Swashbuckler Finesse +3 (enhancement – MW ) + 1 Competence + 3 Spirit Bonus + 2 Flying Blade Training + 1 (weapon Focus) +2 Morale + 3 Luck -3 Piranha Strike -5 Fortuitous = +27
Damage : 11d4 + 3 (enhancement ) +1 (Bloodcrystal) + 9 (Agile) +11 (Precise Strike) +2 (Flying Blade Training) + (5 Spirit Bonus) +1 (Trait, River Rat) +3 Luck +6 Piranha Strike +4 Startoss Style + d6 (Deliquescent Gloves). + d6 (shocking) = 1d4 +2d6 +45.

Full Attack with Haste: 4 attacks
To hit : 11 BAB + 9 Swashbuckler Finesse +3 (enhancement – MW ) + 1 Competence + 3 Spirit Bonus + 2 Flying Blade Training + 1 (weapon Focus) +2 Morale + 3 Luck -3 Piranha Strike +1 haste = +33/+33/+28/+23
Damage : 1d4 + 3 (enhancement ) +1 (Bloodcrystal) + 9 (Agile) +11 (Precise Strike) +2 (Flying Blade Training) + (5 Spirit Bonus) +1 (Trait, River Rat) +3 Luck +6 Piranha Strike +4 Startoss Style + d6 (Deliquescent Gloves). + d6 (shocking) = 1d4 +2d6 +45.
Additionally, trigger precise strike on 2nd attack for a + 11 to damage.
Attack h d s t f c b r DMG
Thrown 0.95 16.5 23.5 0.2 0.95 1 0 0 41.135
AoO 1 0.95 36.5 18 0.2 0.95 1 0 0 58.71
AoO 2 0.95 36.5 18 0.2 0.95 1 0 0 58.71
AoO 3 0.95 36.5 18 0.2 0.95 1 0 0 58.71
Fortuitous 0.9 36.5 18 0.2 0.9 1 0 0 55.62
#1 0.95 36.5 18 0.2 0.95 1 0 0 58.71
#2 0.95 36.5 29 0.2 0.95 1 0 0 69.16
#3 0.95 36.5 18 0.2 0.95 1 0 0 58.71
#4 0.7 36.5 18 0.2 0.7 1 0 0 43.26

Total 502.725

Assuming I have done the math right, 502 dmg. In practice, this build would need much more attention to defence… It's also burning a lot of resources on consumables...IF you really wanted to be dumb, you could replace shock with vicious, and you might take on the Pyro; but you'd also eat 9d6 from your own weapon... If you could make a spring draw wrist sheath into a scabbard of vigor, you could drop quickdraw and get startoss comet as well, for another +2/ dagger strike...


I think I read once that magic consumables in PFS get made at the minimum caster level only? Also, lunge only works on your turn, not for AoOs.


avr wrote:
I think I read once that magic consumables in PFS get made at the minimum caster level only? Also, lunge only works on your turn, not for AoOs.

You're right about lunge - I need another swift action to use a blue swordmaster's flair instead... I am not sure you are right about the consumables - Mike Schneider above was worrying about +5 Greater Magic Weapon spells, which aren't minimum level...

Liberty's Edge

Mike Schneider wrote:

Sorry, Deighton; you had the crown on your head for a second, but then this other halfling came up and melted you into a bubbling puddle of blue flaming goo, and swiped it.

...then again, maybe not: I know almost zilch about the kineticist class (I've only been reading up on it since your reply), but I did note this posted line in AVR's entry: "...Burn 5 due to not gathering power, so use the internal buffer to reduce it by 2... ...and I'm not sure how she's doing that as a 12th level character when it looks like the class is limited to accepting 4 burn per round at that level, and can't spend more than one point with the internal buffer per single wild talent. But that class has more moving parts than a Swiss watch, so I'll leave it to someone else to pick at. (งツ)ว

If AVR forgoes the AoO on the monster's turn (so she doesn't have to roast all that burn turning her weapon-with-the-incredibly-long-name back on), then she does, as she stated, about 404 in damage in the main round.

Given that Deighton's puncher did all of his damage in the main round (deliberately forfeiting AoOs or readies), by judge's decision I'm letting him keep the crown for dishing out the most in a single full-attack.

For the moment....

Well, didn't think I actually deserved the crown to begin with. Especially after I realized I forgot to drop the damage for the off hand unarmed strikes. Overall it should lower damage by 36 a round for a total of 445. Also, not realizing the no potion over 750 gp thing was still in play means it should be changed to heroism. So another 22 for 423 damage.

Although looking at AVRs build, while still number 1 in the challenge, is a lot higher than the damage I've calculated for the build. Someone want to look this over and point out if I've missed anything?

kineticist math:
I'm going to try and simplify things a bit, since there's essentially 4 attacks in the 2 rounds, all attacks hit with the same accuracy, and only one effect that doesn't work as standard damage, I'm going to work off of 4 attacks and the burn effect. Also doing this because, elemental overflow should push damage up in the first round, and the additional bonus in the second round doesn't do anything because of rounding. As far as I can tell these are the only things affecting damage:
Blue Flame Composite Blast 12d6 + half con mod
+8/9 Con modifier meaning +4 damage
Risky Striker for +6
Fire Wysp Familiar for +1 competence bonus to damage
Maximized Spell for 72 damage instead of 12d6
Empowered Spell for half of 12d6 plus 11
Also note, kinetic whip doesn't add elemental overflow bonus to damage.

So we should have 72 + 4 con + 6 risky + 1 comp + 0.5(12d6+11) for a total of 109 damage. 4 attacks at .95 chance to hit and .1 chance to threaten and we're looking at:
4 x .95 x 1.1 x 109 = 455.62
Add in the burn and it .95 x 3.5 for 3.33 damage

Grand total in the two rounds should be 458.95

For those who don't want to bother with the break down, I'm getting 458.95 damage on avr's halfling kineticist, still 36 points ahead of the halfling unarmed/natural weapon fighter. In order for the fighter to take the lead, you'd need something like a bard using discordant voice in the mix, and even then it would only be ahead by about 15 points or so. And I always consider that the bard's damage anyway. Besides, the kineticist is using 2/3 of their daily burn allotment in 2 rounds, it damn well better be worth it.


Mike Schneider wrote:

More stupid Sohei tricks, with a slight assist from PFS house-rules:

...

06 caval4 05 {{Expert Trainer*}} [Challenge 2/day]
07 sohei3 06 [Maneuver Training][Still Mind], Horse Master

Strength of build now apparent with Horse Master feat bringing druid-level of AC mount to character-level. {{*In PFS, all cavaliers get Expert Trainer, meaning archetypes such as Beastrider which normally forfeit it still have it.}}
...
So...at 12th we're riding around on the nastiest pounce-beast imaginable which has defenses and saves better than a paladin's, and have no BAB drawbacks while Flurrying with a high-threat exotic polearm (we've basically traded the horrid -10 BAB11 iterative for a front-loaded extra Flurry attack from 2nd-level with an additional -5 iterative at 12th).

Mike, 1) Where can I find this bit of PFS weirdness, and 2) How does this interact with Ghost Rider cavalier which are also PFS legal?


Deighton Thrane wrote:

Although looking at AVRs build, while still number 1 in the challenge, is a lot higher than the damage I've calculated for the build. Someone want to look this over and point out if I've missed anything?

** spoiler omitted **...

Burning Infusion is one thing you've missed. +1d6 burning damage if the AoO hits. I could reasonably leave it off the round one attack to save 1 burn, there's no need for extra attack bonus or to beat SR in this challenge. The other is Fire's Fury.

Quote:

Fire’s Fury

Element(s) fire; Type utility (Su); Level 1; Burn —

When using fire blasts or composite blasts that include fire, add your elemental overflow bonus to the damage dealt. If the kinetic blast normally adds double your elemental overflow bonus to damage, these effects stack.

While kinetic blade/whip usually drops the elemental overflow bonus off, this adds it back on.

Liberty's Edge

pad300 wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:

More stupid Sohei tricks, with a slight assist from PFS house-rules:

...

06 caval4 05 {{Expert Trainer*}} [Challenge 2/day]
07 sohei3 06 [Maneuver Training][Still Mind], Horse Master

Strength of build now apparent with Horse Master feat bringing druid-level of AC mount to character-level. {{*In PFS, all cavaliers get Expert Trainer, meaning archetypes such as Beastrider which normally forfeit it still have it.}}
...
So...at 12th we're riding around on the nastiest pounce-beast imaginable which has defenses and saves better than a paladin's, and have no BAB drawbacks while Flurrying with a high-threat exotic polearm (we've basically traded the horrid -10 BAB11 iterative for a front-loaded extra Flurry attack from 2nd-level with an additional -5 iterative at 12th).

Mike, 1) Where can I find this bit of PFS weirdness, and 2) How does this interact with Ghost Rider cavalier which are also PFS legal?

The Roleplaying Guild Guide mentions that cavaliers get skill focus handle animal instead of expert trainer. Then the campaign clarification says that a cavalier of 4th level or higher may ignore the expert trainer requirement for the horse master feat. A cavalier who trades out expert trainer for another class feature as part of an archetype (like ghost rider) cannot take the horse master feat.

Liberty's Edge

avr wrote:
Deighton Thrane wrote:

Although looking at AVRs build, while still number 1 in the challenge, is a lot higher than the damage I've calculated for the build. Someone want to look this over and point out if I've missed anything?

** spoiler omitted **...

Burning Infusion is one thing you've missed. +1d6 burning damage if the AoO hits. I could reasonably leave it off the round one attack to save 1 burn, there's no need for extra attack bonus or to beat SR in this challenge. The other is Fire's Fury.

Quote:

Fire’s Fury

Element(s) fire; Type utility (Su); Level 1; Burn —

When using fire blasts or composite blasts that include fire, add your elemental overflow bonus to the damage dealt. If the kinetic blast normally adds double your elemental overflow bonus to damage, these effects stack.

While kinetic blade/whip usually drops the elemental overflow bonus off, this adds it back on.

I got the burn, it was fire's fury that was missing. Should add 31.35 to the previously mentioned damage which equals 490.3. Still off by 47 from your calculations though.

EDIT - No wait, did empower wrong. Should add 47 for 506. So 31 off.


Deighton Thrane wrote:
pad300 wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:

More stupid Sohei tricks, with a slight assist from PFS house-rules:

...

06 caval4 05 {{Expert Trainer*}} [Challenge 2/day]
07 sohei3 06 [Maneuver Training][Still Mind], Horse Master

Strength of build now apparent with Horse Master feat bringing druid-level of AC mount to character-level. {{*In PFS, all cavaliers get Expert Trainer, meaning archetypes such as Beastrider which normally forfeit it still have it.}}
...
So...at 12th we're riding around on the nastiest pounce-beast imaginable which has defenses and saves better than a paladin's, and have no BAB drawbacks while Flurrying with a high-threat exotic polearm (we've basically traded the horrid -10 BAB11 iterative for a front-loaded extra Flurry attack from 2nd-level with an additional -5 iterative at 12th).

Mike, 1) Where can I find this bit of PFS weirdness, and 2) How does this interact with Ghost Rider cavalier which are also PFS legal?
The Roleplaying Guild Guide mentions that cavaliers get skill focus handle animal instead of expert trainer. Then the campaign clarification says that a cavalier of 4th level or higher may ignore the expert trainer requirement for the horse master feat. A cavalier who trades out expert trainer for another class feature as part of an archetype (like ghost rider) cannot take the horse master feat.

Thank you for explaining that. So this build that Mike put up doesn't work - he's got a beastmaster cav, which trades out expert trainer.

Liberty's Edge

pad300 wrote:
Thank you for explaining that. So this build that Mike put up doesn't work - he's got a beastmaster cav, which trades out expert trainer.

Yeah, it might have worked differently when he originally posted it. Didn't have the campaign clarification then.

Liberty's Edge

The "More stupid Sohei tricks" post is six years old; PFS changed how they were modifying cavaliers in that campaign, and the build no longer works. (Essentially, they closed loopholes.)

Liberty's Edge

pad300 wrote:

Alright, I learned me a few tricks from others, and I give you Stabby with extra cheese... He doesn't take the crown from the Pyro, but is sufficiently cheesy to pass Deighton's bitey little git

** spoiler omitted **...

A couple things I noticed about the build. First is Divine Favor being a personal spell, so potions don't work. Second, the spirit bonus looks to be 1 higher than it should be for a one level dip and spirit focus (champion). There's about a 60% chance to succeed on the parry, so if you include that in you calculations, it lowers things a bit. Also, I think you activated precise strike on the throw, which doesn't work because it has to be a swift action, and the attack has to be made before the end of your turn. Bleeding Wound is also an action (a free action, but still...) which means you can't activate in off turn. Personally, I have the calculations at about 402 damage.

Math:
thrown attack .95 x 29 = 27.55 + (.95 x .2 x 14.5) = 30.31
AoO w/ Fortu. 1.65 x 49.5 = 81.675 + (1.65 X .2 X 31.5) = 92.07
Disrupting Cntr .95 x 49.5 = 47.025 + (.95 x .2 x 31.5) = 53.01
Parry .6 x 53.01 = 31.8
Regular round 2.15 x 50.5 = 108.575 + (2.15 x .2 x 32.5) = 122.55
Precise .95 x 69.5 = 66.025 + (.95 x .2 x 31.5) = 72.01

Separated the precise strike to apply bleed on the full attack to make it easier. I know it's not formatted the same as the damage formula, but it should all work out, it's too late, and I'm too tired to bother reformatting it. Brackets are for critical damage if it isn't clear.


Deighton Thrane wrote:

I got the burn, it was fire's fury that was missing. Should add 31.35 to the previously mentioned damage which equals 490.3. Still off by 47 from your calculations though.

EDIT - No wait, did empower wrong. Should add 47 for 506. So 31 off.

Going thru this very carefully I think I messed up empower another way the first time around. I came up with 502 redoing it.


Easily done.


Deighton Thrane wrote:
pad300 wrote:

Alright, I learned me a few tricks from others, and I give you Stabby with extra cheese... He doesn't take the crown from the Pyro, but is sufficiently cheesy to pass Deighton's bitey little git

** spoiler omitted **...

A couple things I noticed about the build. First is Divine Favor being a personal spell, so potions don't work. Second, the spirit bonus looks to be 1 higher than it should be for a one level dip and spirit focus (champion). There's about a 60% chance to succeed on the parry, so if you include that in you calculations, it lowers things a bit. Also, I think you activated precise strike on the throw, which doesn't work because it has to be a swift action, and the attack has to be made before the end of your turn. Bleeding Wound is also an action (a free action, but still...) which means you can't activate in off turn. Personally, I have the calculations at about 402 damage.

** spoiler omitted **

Spirit Bonus is +3 because of starting at +1, an additional +1 for Spirit Focus and a third +1 for Spirit Binding armor.

So I need a different buff potion - suggestions welcome.

Silver Crusade

SoulGambit wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

This is the story of a character who was a doctor, who became a cowboy, who became a ninja. He performed acupuncture in his spare time... using a gun. I have no idea if this is PFS legal, but here's my entry using the Gunslinger and the Ninja playtests. Ninja is mostly supliferous--more Alchemist levels or Rogue Levels work just as well in the end.

** spoiler omitted **...

Sadly, it ins't PFS legal. Because you can't choose Sylvan as a Eldritch Lineage(Cause it's an Archetype).

Liberty's Edge

pad300 wrote:

Spirit Bonus is +3 because of starting at +1, an additional +1 for Spirit Focus and a third +1 for Spirit Binding armor.

So I need a different buff potion - suggestions welcome.

You know, I actually missed the spirit-bonded part on the armor. I wasn't thinking of it because it's not a PFS legal option. I'm trying to think of potions that fit the criteria of 750 gp or less that help the build but I'm not coming up with much. Reduce Person would increase accuracy and even damage, by 0.5. Using the same calculations I used for the 402 damage before, drinking a potion of reduce person increases damage to 423.


Deighton Thrane wrote:
pad300 wrote:

Spirit Bonus is +3 because of starting at +1, an additional +1 for Spirit Focus and a third +1 for Spirit Binding armor.

So I need a different buff potion - suggestions welcome.

You know, I actually missed the spirit-bonded part on the armor. I wasn't thinking of it because it's not a PFS legal option. I'm trying to think of potions that fit the criteria of 750 gp or less that help the build but I'm not coming up with much. Reduce Person would increase accuracy and even damage, by 0.5. Using the same calculations I used for the 402 damage before, drinking a potion of reduce person increases damage to 423.

/Rant ON!

And we are running into why I [expeletive deleted] HATE playing PFS! You have to look up every single thing you put in a build on a random webpage that changes every couple of months... Which you can't even search properly - try putting say "sacred geometry" into that page ... you don't get a hit.

Would you play a home game with a GM who handed you a 25 page list and said "Here are my individual houserules, have fun looking everything up!"?

And of course, they don't do things in any kind of rational way, like large categories: for example No guns in general. Nope, just 10000 little individual, random, non-searchable rulings... Bladed Brush feat - nope, saving that one for a chronicle sheet. You can use a Harrow deck if you buy a official pathfinder Harrow deck, but no simulation with dice, cards, your homemade cards, or anything else. Is simulacrum, game breaker that it is, banned? Of course not... How about the "mandatory" buy of Gloves of Dueling - that you see in every single fighter build - Nope.

I [expeletive deleted] HATE PFS!

/Rant OFF!

Well, I will see what else there is to come up with...

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
You have to look up every single thing you put in a build on a random webpage that changes every couple of months... Which you can't even search properly - try putting say "sacred geometry" into that page ... you don't get a hit.

Which is why I recommended searching Nethys first in my post at the top of this page. (Or just thingamabob + nethys thrown at Google will get you where you need to be 99% of the time.)

If you don't see the PFS logo, it's almost certainly not legal if the book it was published in itself has an entry on PFS' Additional Resources page and doesn't mention it (none of the feats in Occult Mysteries are legal). (Sacred Geometry was sacked in PFS for being either a massive table-hogging time-sink, or LOLwut!? broken if you used a phone app to solve it for best-possible result every time...not to mention fragging any semblance of immersive verisimilitude with a flame-thrower.)

Quote:
Is simulacrum, game breaker that it is, banned? Of course not...
Why would it have to be? The earliest a wizard can cast that 7th-level spell is at 13th CL, which is coincidentally the exact moment he enters "retirement".
Quote:
How about the "mandatory" buy of Gloves of Dueling - that you see in every single fighter build - Nope.

You mean those 15,000gp items that eat your hand slot and require anywhere from three to five levels in the otherwise arid wasteland of the dullest core class in order to properly activate them for a, in most cases, +2/+2 increase in one's existing bonuses, but only while wielding specific weapons?

You know else does that and only costs 25gp with a single level dip into a class with lots of cool skills and other 1st-level bennies, and works with every weapon in the book including improvised? -- A scroll of Instant Enemy used by any ranger archetype that doesn't forfeit either spellcasting or favored enemy. You could do this as a 1st-level character on your first adventure! (You will be saddled with the onerous requirement of having at least an 11 in wisdom.) And you know who else can swing that +2/+2 att/dmg at 1st level? Barbarians. -- The fighter squeezes the dear life out of his coppers to swing those gloves by 6th (more likely 7th) in PFS. Meanwhile, the ranger-dipping bloodrager is concealing his +1/Furious bardiche in a Glove of Storing. The dueling gloves are very nice, don't get me wrong, but they're hardly a must-have-or-you-suck item, and many astute practitioners of higher-order munchkinery still account fighter a suboptimal class.

======

But enough arguing, because that is not what the ticket-buying crowd was here for. The arena grows bored and restless....

Send in the next gladiators!


Alright, something new, I called him Whipped Cream with Cheese. I hope I managed to look everything up.

The Build:

Whipped Cream with Extra Cheese

Race Human

Str 15 (+2 Racial) (+3 Lvl 4,8,12) = 20 +6 enhancement +4 Size +6 Alchemical = 40
Dex 14 +4 Alchemical – 2 Size = 16
Con 10 + 4 Morale = 14
Int 11 -2 Alchemical =9
Wis 10 -2 Alchemical =8
Cha 15

Traits & Drawbacks
Whip Specialist, Accelerated Consume

Skills : (4+1 (human) )*2+(2+1)*9
Perception(12), UMD(12), Intimidate(11), Acrobatics(3), Climb (1), Swim (1)

Medium (1), Relic Channeler: Spirit, Spirit Bonus (+1), Spirit Power (lesser –Elven Curved Blade, Whip), Spirit Surge (1d6)
Swashbuckler (1): Deeds (Derring-Do, Subtle Throw, Opportune Parry and Riposte), Panache(2), Swashbuckler Finesse
Fighter (1), Mutagenic Mauler: Bonus feat
Fighter (2), Mutagenic Mauler: Bonus feat, bravery +1
Fighter (3), Mutagenic Mauler: Mutagen
Fighter (4), Mutagenic Mauler: Bonus feat
Fighter (5), Mutagenic Mauler: Weapon training 1 Flails
Fighter (6), Mutagenic Mauler: Bonus feat, bravery +2
Fighter (7), Mutagenic Mauler: Mutagen Discovery (Greater Mutagen)
Fighter (8), Mutagenic Mauler: Bonus feat
Fighter (9), Mutagenic Mauler: Weapon training 2 Natural Weapons

Feats
Spirit Focus (Champion) (1st)
Combat Reflexes (Human Bonus)
Power Attack (3ed)
Weapon Focus (Whip) (Fighter Bonus 1st)
Weapon Specialization (Whip) (Fighter Bonus 2nd)\
Flagbearer (5th)
Whip Mastery (Fighter Bonus 4th)
Advanced Weapon Training: Focused Weapon (Whip) (7th)
Greater Weapon Focus (Whip) (Fighter Bonus 6th)
Improved Critical (Whip) (9th)
Improved Whip Mastery (Fighter Bonus 8th)
*** (11th)

Knacks (2)
Sift, Guidance

External Buffs: Monstrous Physique II: Calikang (1 minute Buff, 7 minutes total), Heroism (10 Minute Buff),

Equipment :
Boots of Speed (12000 gp),
Whip+1 Fortuitous (8301 gp),
Helm of the Mammoth Lord (8500 gp)
Belt of Strength +6 (36000)
Cracked Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone (4000)
Scroll of Monstrous Physique II (CL7) (7x4x25=700 gp)
Plume of Panache (1000 gp)
Gloves of Dueling (15000 gp)
Wand Key Ring, Monstrous Physique II (3000gp)
Potion of Heroism
Potion of Long Arm

BAB +11

Panache: 2 + 1(Plume) = 3

The Fight:

Active buffs: Mutagen (up to 30min), Monstrous Physique II – Calikang (up to 7 min).
Prep round: 1) Rapid consume potion of Long Arm.(move action), 2) ready action : attack with whip at first enemy that closes to 25’ (standard action), 3) Grip whip with two hands and activate power attack (non-actions)
Enemy attack: 1) ready action (attack w/Whip) triggers when they are 25’ away 2) as they close to 15’, they trigger AoO #1 for leaving a threatened square (large +Long arm + reach). 3) if we hit with AoO #1, Fortuitous weapon property grants us another attack at -5. 4) as they close to 10’ they trigger AoO # 2 another chance to trigge Fortuitous) 5) In response to their attack trigger Opportune Parry and Riposte (1 panache), which if successful allows Riposte Attack (as an immediate action)
Whipped Cream’s turn: 1) swift-action activate boots of speed for Haste .2) Activate Power Attack (non-action) and Grip Whip two handed (non-action). 3) Full attack with whip (3 attacks +1 haste) and natural weapons: 4 slams and 1 Gore

The Damage:

Whip Readied Attack
To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength +1 (enhancement) + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 4 Weapon Training Flail + 2 (weapon Focus) -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Morale) = +35
Damage : 2d6 + 22 (Strength) +4 (Weapon Training) + (4 Spirit Bonus) + 1 (enhancement) + 9 (Power Attack) + 2 (Weapon specialization)+2 (Morale) +1 (Trait) = 2d6+ 45.
AoO #1&2
To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength +1 (enhancement) + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 4 Weapon Training Flail + 2 (weapon Focus) -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Morale) = +35
Damage : 2d6 + 22 (Strength) +4 (Weapon Training) + (4 Spirit Bonus) + 1 (enhancement) + 9 (Power Attack) + 2 (Weapon specialization)+2 (Morale) +1 (Trait) = 2d6+ 45.
Opportune Parry
To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength +1 (enhancement) + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 4 Weapon Training Flail + 2 (weapon Focus) -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Morale) = +35
Damage : Triggers Riposte by forcing a miss! Probability of success is 95%
Riposte ~95% probable to happen
To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength +1 (enhancement) + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 4 Weapon Training Flail + 2 (weapon Focus) -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Morale) = +35
Damage : 2d6 + 22 (Strength) +4 (Weapon Training) + (4 Spirit Bonus) + 1 (enhancement) + 9 (Power Attack) + 2 (Weapon specialization)+2 (Morale) +1 (Trait) = 2d6+ 45.

Fortuitous Attack (it is assumed this triggers at some stage, probability of not doing so is <0.0003 )
To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength +1 (enhancement) + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 4 Weapon Training Flail + 2 (weapon Focus) -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Morale) -5 Fortuitous = +30
Damage : 2d6 + 22 (Strength) +4 (Weapon Training) + (4 Spirit Bonus) + 1 (enhancement) + 9 (Power Attack) + 2 (Weapon specialization)+2 (Morale) +1 (Trait) = 2d6+ 45.

Full Attack with Haste: 4 attacks w/whip
To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength +1 (enhancement) + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 4 Weapon Training Flail + 2 (weapon Focus) -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Morale) = +35/+35/+30/+25
Damage : 2d6 + 22 (Strength) +4 (Weapon Training) + (4 Spirit Bonus) + 1 (enhancement) + 9 (Power Attack) + 2 (Weapon specialization)+2 (Morale) +1 (Trait) = 2d6+ 45.
And 4 slams and 1 gore as secondary natural attacks
To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 3 Weapon Training Natural + -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Morale) -5 secondary natural attack= +25
Slams (4)
Damage : 1d6 + 7 (Strength) +3 (Weapon Training) + (4 Spirit Bonus) + 6 (Power Attack)+2 (Morale)= 1d6+ 22.
Gore (1)
Damage : 1d8 + 7 (Strength) +3 (Weapon Training) + (4 Spirit Bonus) + 6 (Power Attack)+2 (Morale)= 1d8+ 22.

Attack h d s t f c b r DMG
Readied 0.95 52 0 0.1 0.95 1 0 0 54.34
AoO 1&2 0.95 52 0 0.1 0.95 1 0 0 108.68
Riposte 0.95 52 0 0.1 0.95 1 0 0 51.623
Fortuitous 0.95 52 0 0.1 0.95 1 0 0 54.34
#1&#2 0.95 52 0 0.1 0.95 1 0 0 108.68
#3 0.95 52 0 0.1 0.95 1 0 0 54.34
#4 0.8 52 0 0.1 0.8 1 0 0 45.76
Gore 0.8 26.5 0 0.05 0.8 1 0 0 22.26
Slams (4) 0.8 25.5 0 0.05 0.8 1 0 0 85.68
Total 585.703

Assuming I have done the math right, 585 dmg. As usual, this thing needs much more attention to defence...


I will note, that I think you might be able to improve on this using an Elven Curve Blade, replacing the whip feats with a the full snake style tree. Two extra AoO's from snake make up for the lost AoO's to reach (although they are only 95% probable), and the improved crit range and damage (2d8) for a large ECB should do it.

Further, I also see possibilities in further exploring the Kineticist, with something like Kineticist 11 / Swash 1. Get Riposte for an extra attack. If you can push the to-hit high enough you could use a physical blast, for significantly more damage than an energy blast.


Pad300, the PRD states

prd wrote:
Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent.

I didn't read too much more of your build but that would remove the second AoO you have listed for moving in.


Bloodragers can nova too! All Limbs Used

Spoiler:
Human urban bloodrager, shapechanger bloodline
Str 15+2 race+3 level+6 belt=24, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 12+4 headband=16

Feats: Quick Draw, Dirty Fighting, Improved Trip, Throw Anything, Power Attack (B), Equipment Trick (heavy blade scabbard), Fury’s Fall, Greater Trip, Weapon Focus (greatsword) (B)

Contingent Action learned via urban bloodrager

36000 +6 belt of strength
16000 +4 headband of charisma
18350 +1 furious fortuitous greatsword
4000 Furious amulet of mighty fists
310 Masterwork sharpened combat scabbard
12000 Boots of speed
9000 Lesser metamagic rod of empower spell
300 Potion of invisibility
625 Scroll of draconic ally, inc. material cpt
4000 Gauntlets of the skilled maneuver

10 min/level buff: Cast Draconic Ally from scroll

1 min/level buff: Cast Contingent Action (on melee hit, attack them again!)

Round zero: Draconic Ally drinks potion of invisibility, start greater bloodrage (+6 Str)/cast Monstrous Physique 1 & turn into a Popobala (+2 Str, lots of natural attacks)/cast vine strike (swift), activate boots of speed (free), cast empowered (via rod) frostbite (standard), stow rod (move)

Round one: Draconic Ally moves to flank then uses breath weapon, 5’ step forward, draw greatsword (free), attack w/combat scabbard using Equipment Trick to trip (swift), full attack (full round).

Assume save made, half damage from breath weapon: 6d8/2, mean 13.5 damage

CMB, combat scabbard: BAB +12, Str (inc. rage, MP I) +11, Dex +2, imp trip +2, greater trip +2, masterwork +1, haste +1, dirty fighting w/imp cbt mnvr +4, power attack -4, gauntlets of the skilled maneuver +2. 95% success vs. CMD 35.

Attack, greatsword: BAB +12/+7/+2, Str (inc. rage, MP I) +11, enhancement +3, haste +1, flank +2, vs. prone +4, weapon focus +1, power attack -4. +30/+25/+20, +26/+21/+16 if opponent not prone. AoO at max attack bonus w/greatsword if opponent tripped.

Damage, greatsword: 2d6 + 16 (Str) + 3 (enhancement) + 12 (PA) = 2d6 + 31, mean 38

Attack, natural weapons (bite, 2 talons, 2 wings): BAB +12, Str (inc. rage, MP I) +11, enhancement +2, haste +1, flank +2, vs. prone +4, power attack -4, secondary -5. +23, +19 if opponent not prone.

Damage, bite: 2d6 + 5 (Str) + 2 (enhancement) + 4 (PA) +1d6 (vine strike)+ 1.5*(1d6+12) (frostbite) = 2d6 + 11 + 1d6 + 1.5*(1d6+12)
Damage, talon or wing: 1d6 + 5 (Str) + 2 (enhancement) + 4 (PA) +1d6 (vine strike)+ 1.5*(1d6+12) (frostbite) = 1d6 + 11 + 1d6 + 1.5*(1d6+12)

If tripped (95%): greatsword w/haste, AoO, fortuitous, contingent action +30/+30/+30/+30/+25/+25/+20, bite +23, 2 talons +23, 2 wings +23
4* (0.95*38 + 0.1*0.95*38) 158.84
+ 2* (0.8*38 + 0.1*0.8*38) 66.88
+ (0.55*38 + 0.1*0.55*38) 22.99
+ (0.7*44.75 + 0.05*0.7*18) 31.96
+ 4* (0.7*41.25 + 0.05*0.7*14.5) 117.53
= 398.2, *0.95 = 378.29

If not (5%): greatsword w/haste, contingent action +26/+26+26/+21/+16, bite +19, 2 talons +19, 2 wings +19
3* (0.85*38 + 0.1*0.85*38) 106.59
+ (0.6*38 + 0.1*0.6*38) 25.08
+ (0.35*38 + 0.1*0.35*38) 14.63
+ (0.5*44.75 + 0.05*0.5*18) 22.83
+ 4* (0.5*41.25 + 0.05*0.5*14.5) 83.95
= 253.08, *0.05 = 12.65

Total inc. breath weapon (13.5) = 404.44

Also, the enemy is fatigued, 95% chance of being prone and quite likely entangled. If I knew what the chance of the enemy failing a DC 15 reflex save is (probably low?) I’d try to work out what effect that’d have on the later natural attacks.

Limbs takes the attack from the enemy and an AoO from making a ranged attack (combat scabbard), and she doesn't have a lot of defence so she is indeed one of the welcome squishies.

Edit: forgot the frostbite was empowered, corrected figures.

Liberty's Edge

pad300 wrote:

I will note, that I think you might be able to improve on this using an Elven Curve Blade, replacing the whip feats with a the full snake style tree. Two extra AoO's from snake make up for the lost AoO's to reach (although they are only 95% probable), and the improved crit range and damage (2d8) for a large ECB should do it.

Further, I also see possibilities in further exploring the Kineticist, with something like Kineticist 11 / Swash 1. Get Riposte for an extra attack. If you can push the to-hit high enough you could use a physical blast, for significantly more damage than an energy blast.

It's funny you mention the snake style thing, because I went back and looked at option B of the halfling build I posted. Build A eventually went into pummeling style for full attack on charge, and build B focused on high AC and snake style to draw attacks of opportunity. With a little bit of reworking it fits the fight here.

Halfling mutation fighter (snake style this time)

the build:
Halfling Urban Blood Conduit Bloodrager 1/ Medium 1/ Mutation Warrior Fighter 10

Str 10
Dex 19 + 3 level + 4 enhancement + 4 moral + 4 alchemical = 34
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 09

Traits : Accelerated drinker, Fate's Favored

1 Bloodrager :Weapon Finesse, Improved Unarmed Strike, Controlled Bloodrage, Angelic Attacks
2 Medium :Knacks, Spirit, Spirit Bonus +1, Spirit Surge 1d6, Spirit Power (lesser)
3 Fighter :Two Weapon Fighting, Piranha Strike
4 Fighter :Snake Style, Bravery +1
5 Fighter :Risky Striker, Mutagen
6 Fighter :Dodge
7 Fighter :Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Training 1 (natural)
8 Fighter :Snake Sidewind, Bravery +2
9 Fighter :Combat Reflexes, Mutagen Discovery (feral mutagen)
10 Fighter :Snake Fang
11 Fighter :Celestial Obedience (Falayna), Weapon Training 2, Advanced Weapon Training (knockout training)
12 Fighter :Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Bravery +3

Equipment:
+1 brawling Haramaki 16 153
Agile Furious Fortuitous amulet of mighty fists 36 000
Boots of speed 12 000
Heavy Darkwood Shield +2 4 192
Gloves of Dueling 15 000
Belt of Dexterity +4 16 000
Helm of the Mammoth Lord 8 000
Potion of Mage Armor 50
Wand of Long Arm 750
Ring of protection +1 2 000
108 145

AC : 12 dex, 1 size, 1 dodge, 1 deflection, 2 natural armor, 4 shield, 4 armor, 1 haste

To Hit: 11 BAB, 12 from dexterity, 1 from size small, 4 luck from divine favor, 2 to unarmed strikes from brawling, 1 from haste, 4 from weapon training, 1 from spirit bonus, 2 from furious enchantment, -2 from two weapon fighting, -3 from pirahna strike. Should be a grand total of 35/30 on attacks of opportunity and
33/28/23 for unarmed strikes and 26 for natural attacks.

Damage: 12/6 from dexterity, 4 from divine favor, 2 to unarmed from brawling, 8 from weapon training, 3 from spirit bonus/seance bonus, 2 from furious, 6/3 from piranha strike, 6 from risky striker, and average weapon damage. Unarmed = 1.5, bite = 3.5, claws/gore = 2.5. All totaled should be average of
Unarmed strike = 38.5, 44.5 with risky striker, 35.5 off hand
Bite = 35.5
Claw/Gore = 34.5


the fight:
So similar to the first one, except starting with mutagen and long arm as our 10 min/lvl and 1 min/lvl buffs. First round swift action start snake style, move action drink potion of mage hour (having a 1 hour/lvl buff going beforehand would have helped here) that we walk around with in our hand, and standard action use divine favor SLA. Also as a free action activate boots of speed and begin controlled bloodrage, because we need the boost to AC.
Monster walks in, attacks, missing and thereby triggering snake style's attack of opportunity. Take attack of opportunity, using piranha strike and dealing nonlethal damage to trigger knockout training's additional damage, assuming with 95% chance to hit, we take second attack of opportunity from Fortuitous and take immediate action to attack again.
On our turn, full attack which includes 4 main hand and 3 off hand unarmed strikes (kicks), a gore, a bite, and a single claw, since we're stuck holding a shield. Since we're making a full attack, we can now use risky striker along with piranha strike.

Damage:
So, since there's nothing that doesn't get doubled on a crit I've cut down the damage formula:
AoOs : 2.85 x 1.05 x 38.5 = 115.21
Unarmed P : 3.5 x 1.05 x 44.5 = 163.54
Unarmed S : 2.55 x 1.05 x 35.5 = 95.05
Bite : 0.85 x 1.05 x 35.5 = 31.68
Claw/Gore : 1.7 x 1.05 x 34.5 = 61.58
total : 467
So, 467 damage, but it's all non-lethal. Personally think the amount of resources into making snake style work wasn't the best choice, may try taking a one level dip in swashbuckler, seems like the easier way to go, see if it comes back with more damage. Using monstrous physique would work too.

Also, quick note for Pad300, since it's probably the hardest thing to notice without playing PFS, and having it pointed out to you, but the only legal source for polymorph effects seem to be the bestiaries. It's stated in the additional resources page under the specific books that they're legal options for wild shape and other polymorph stuff. As far as I know, Calikang hasn't made it into one of the bestiary books. I'm pretty sure you could use a vouivre as a replacement form. Aside from that, you can't usually wield a whip 2 handed for 1-1/2 strength bonus, if there's something that allows you to, I might have just missed it. And greater mutagen requires fighter level 12, not sure what a good replacement option is though. I think you've also got one move action provoking twice in there. Aside from those few things, it looks like a pretty good build. Would like to see the retooling with elven curved blade to see if it gets any better.

Liberty's Edge

Okay, so I think the final rebuild of the halfling unarmed/natural attack build.

Build:
Halfling Urban Blood Conduit Bloodrager 1/ Order of the Dragon Constable Cavalier 1/ Mutation Warrior Fighter 10

Str 13
Dex 19 + 3 level + 4 enhancement + 4 moral + 4 alchemical + 2 size = 36
Con 10
Int 12
Wis 07
Cha 14

Traits : Accelerated drinker, Quain Martial Artist

1 Bloodrager :Weapon Finesse, Improved Bull Rush, Controlled Bloodrage, Angelic Strikes
2 Cavalier : Challenge 1/day, Improved Unarmed Stike, Order, Tactician (doesn't matter what feat)
3 Fighter :Two Weapon Fighting, Power Attack
4 Fighter :Weapon Focus (unarmed strike), Bravery +1
5 Fighter :Risky Striker, Mutagen
6 Fighter :Rhino Charge
7 Fighter :Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Training 1 (natural)
8 Fighter :Weapon Specialization (unarmed strike), Bravery +2
9 Fighter :Pummeling Style, Mutagen Discovery (feral mutagen)
10 Fighter :Advanced Weapon Training (knockout training)
11 Fighter :Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Training 2, Advanced Weapon Training (Weapon Specialization: Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization)
12 Fighter :Pummeling Charge, Bravery +3

UMD : 2 charisma, 12 ranks, 10 insight bonus from Wand Keyring. Get required 25 for Monstrous Physique scroll automatically.

Equipment:
+1 brawling Haramaki 16 153
Agile Furious shocking amulet of mighty fists 36 000
Boots of speed 12 000
Gloves of Dueling 15 000
Belt of Dexterity +4 16 000
Helm of the Mammoth Lord 8 000
Potion of Heroism 750
Scroll of Monstrous Physique I 375
Wand Keyring 3 000
106 278

To Hit : 11 BAB, 13 from dexterity, 1 from size small, 1 from haste, 2 morale from Heroism, 2 to unarmed strikes from brawling, 4 from weapon training, 1 from weapon focus, 2 from furious enchantment, 1 from challenge -2 from two weapon fighting, -3 from power attack.
Should be a grand total of 32/27/22 for unarmed strikes and 25 for natural attacks. +1 when challenging on Second Round.

Damage: 13/6 from dexterity, 2 to unarmed from brawling, 8 from weapon training, 2 from weapon specialization, 1 from Quain Martial Artist, 2 from furious, 6/3 from power attack, 6 from risky striker, 1 from challenge, 3.5 from shocking, and average weapon damage. Unarmed = 1.5, bite = 3.5, claws/gore = 2.5. All totaled should be average of
Unarmed strike = 45/46 main hand 35/36 off hand
Bite = 35
Claws/Gore = 34


The Fight:
So this fight we go in with our mutagen and monstrous physique going. We use Charda form for bite and 4 claw attacks while remaining small. First round we use our swift to adopt pummeling style, move action we drink the potion of heroism we were holding, free action we activate boots of speed and begin controlled bloodrage. As a standard action, we ready a charge for when the creature gets within, say 20 feet.
Monster gets within 20 feet and charge goes off. Because of Pummeling charge we get a full attack using only unarmed strikes. We're dealing non lethal damage to gain the bonus from knockout training. After this, the monster attacks us, I guess?
Back to our turn. Swift action challenge the monster. Perform full attack with natural attacks and kicks because we don't need to use pummeling style.

Damage:
charge main hand : 3.6 x 45 + 3.6 x 0.05 x 41.5 = 169.47
charge Off hand : 2.65 x 35 + 2.65 x 0.05 x 31.5 = 96.92

Unarmed Main hand : 3.5 x 46 + 3.5 x 0.05 x 42.5 = 168.44
Unarmed Off hand : 2.55 x 36 + 2.55 x 0.05 x 32.5 = 95.94
Bite : 0.85 x 35 + 0.85 x 0.05 x 31.5 = 31.09
Claws/Gore : 4.25 x 34 + 4.25 x 0.05 x 30.5 = 150.98
total : 712.84

Even though it's non-lethal, 713 damage. Which should be about enough non-lethal damage to still end up killing anything with AC 30 anyway.

Liberty's Edge

Quote:

So this fight we go in with our mutagen and monstrous physique going. We use Charda form for bite and 4 claw attacks while remaining small. First round we use our swift to adopt pummeling style, move action we drink the potion of heroism we were holding, free action we activate boots of speed and begin controlled bloodrage. As a standard action, we ready a charge for when the creature gets within, say 20 feet.

Monster gets within 20 feet and charge goes off. Because of Pummeling charge we get a full attack using only unarmed strikes. We're dealing non lethal damage to gain the bonus from knockout training. After this, the monster attacks us, I guess?
Back to our turn. Swift action challenge the monster. Perform full attack with natural attacks and kicks because we don't need to use pummeling style.

Issues:

1) You can't activate your Style feat-chain prior to initiative:

Style Feats wrote:
As a swift action, you can enter the stance employed by the fighting style a style feat embodies. Although you cannot use a style feat before combat begins, the style you are in persists until you...

Reminders all around again that you do not see the monster during your prep round. Abilities that require sight of an enemy and/or INIT being called for won't work in the prep round. Smite? Nope. Challenge? Nope. Judgment? Nope. Style? Nope. Instant Enemy? Nope. Amulet of the Spirits? Nope.

2) The idea that you can take a swift, a move, then ready a charge via Rhino, then receive a full attack via Pummeling all in the same round seems...excessive even though it is apparently PFS-legal for the moment. (I FAQ'd it in the Rules forum.)

3) The RageLancePounce technique of AM BARBARIAN prompted some rule changes years back regarding how bonuses and whatnot for various extra attacks after the first are resolved during charge>pounces; I don't know all the details because I've never built a pounce-machine, but you'll want to bone-up.

4) Pummeling Charge only works with unarmed strikes, not natural attacks. (I.e., monstrous physique's claws and bites do not qualify.) It does not look like you used them (because you were after nonlethal), but just wanted to get it out for the other readers.


Mike Schneider wrote:

Issues:

1) You can't activate your Style feat-chain prior to initiative:

Style Feats wrote:
[i]As a swift action, you can enter the stance employed by the fighting style a style feat embodies. Although you cannot use a style feat before combat begins, the style you are in persists until you...

Mike, am I correct in saying that this means you can't use snake style at all in this challenge? If you can't start the style stance in the prep round, the monster gets his attack before you get another swift, and he doesn't get another attack after that...


Deighton Thrane wrote:

Okay, so I think the final rebuild of the halfling unarmed/natural attack build.

** spoiler omitted **...

Deighton, can you break down in more detail how many claws/bites and unarmed strikes are you getting? There is verbiage out there that you only get natural attacks that aren't being used by your primary attacks. ie. No claws from hands that are holding weapons. How that interacts with unarmed strike I am not sure...

It the verbiage in the Monk class that says "A monk’s attacks can be with fists, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk can make unarmed strikes with his hands full.", not IUS itself.


Although this does not interrupt my question for Mike, I am apparently not the only one to be annoyed by PFS:

http://paizo.com/pathfindersociety/rpg/additional wrote:
Feats: all feats on pages 136-159 are legal for play, except Evolved Companion, Evolved Summon Monster. Animal Soul, Divine Protection, Pummeling Charge, and Spirit's Gift are now legal for play.

Deighton, say it with me now, shout it out loud, : "I [expletive deleted] HATE ... "

Liberty's Edge

Mike Schneider wrote:

]Issues:

1) You can't activate your Style feat-chain prior to initiative: Abilities that require sight of an enemy and/or INIT being called for won't work in the prep round. Smite? Nope. Challenge? Nope. Judgment? Nope. Style? Nope. Instant Enemy? Nope. Amulet of the Spirits? Nope.

2) The idea that you can take a swift, a move, then ready a charge via Rhino, then receive a full attack via Pummeling all in the same round seems...excessive even though it is apparently PFS-legal for the moment. (I FAQ'd it in the Rules forum.)

3) The RageLancePounce technique of AM BARBARIAN prompted some rule changes years back regarding how bonuses and whatnot for various extra attacks after the first are resolved during charge>pounces; I don't know all the details because I've never built a pounce-machine, but you'll want to bone-up.

4) Pummeling Charge...

Okay, this is pretty fair. The build does kind of strain the boundaries of the challenge a bit, essentially getting 2 turns worth of actions. There's a bit of a problem with starting combat only when the monster comes out. You only start initiative when combat starts, so that means no readied actions, as they're special initiative actions which you can't technically take outside of initiative. It would also mean that you would need some way to be able to make attacks of opportunity if that's what you were planning, either through uncanny dodge or combat reflexes. Because of this, I had just assumed that we were already in initiative, just didn't know where the enemy was.

If you're looking for relevant rules on the full attack on a readied charge, being able pounce while under the effects of slow is probably the most relevant. Basically says there's not such thing as a partial charge, so you can still pounce in cases where you're charging with a standard action. Other than that I don't know that the other FAQs are relevant. Ragepounce barbarian caused the faq on lances not getting 3 times damage on all attacks, and being able to use a manufactured weapon for all our attacks isn't relevant because pummeling style says you have to use unarmed strikes.

Clarifying things for Pad300, first the pummeling charge thing. That's two different sentences. Evolved Companion and Evolved Summoned Monster are disallowed. It then goes on to clarify that animal soul, divine protection, pummeling charge and spirit's gift are all now legal options, because before those feats were changed in the advanced class guide errata, they weren't legal options. The feat can no longer be used with any weapon, and doesn't almost guarantee that the entire full attack is a critical hit. It's toned down quite a bit from that.

As for the attack breakdown. On the readied charge we only use unarmed strikes, so we'd gain 4 attacks with our main hand, and 3 with our off hand. Accuracy is .95/.95/.75 because of the +2 from charge. Then on the regular turn, it's 4 main hand (foot) attacks and 3 off hand attacks, accuracy .95/.95/.7, and the natural attack of gore, bite and 4 claws, at .85 each. Also, if you're looking for where it says kicks are unarmed strikes, it's in the combat section.

Unarmed Attacks: Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon... The section in the monk write up isn't an exception to a rule, it's more a clarification of, yes you can in fact do this.

Liberty's Edge

pad300 wrote:
am I correct in saying that this means you can't use snake style at all in this challenge? If you can't start the style stance in the prep round, the monster gets his attack before you get another swift, and he doesn't get another attack after that...

You are not precluded from readying an action to activate the style when initiative is called for. If you elect to do so, it will consume the prep round's standard action (to ready) and swift action (activating the style). This leaves only the prep round's move action available for buffing or anything else.

I am with you on one thing: Style feats are trappy and harder to deploy than taking players initially assume. But that's a Paizo-running-out-of-non-OP-feat-ideas problem, not a PFS problem or even a this particular scenario problem because combat very frequently begins in just this manner with the monster getting the jump.

Quote:
Although this does not interrupt my question for Mike, I am apparently not the only one to be annoyed by PFS:
If you do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved corps, there's always the National Guard.
Quote:
http://paizo.com/pathfindersociety/rpg/additional wrote:
Feats: all feats on pages 136-159 are legal for play, except Evolved Companion, Evolved Summon Monster. <<<< (that guy right there) Animal Soul, Divine Protection, Pummeling Charge, and Spirit's Gift are now legal for play.
Deighton, say it with me now, shout it out loud, : "I [expletive deleted] HATE ... "

You're missing the tiny period. Pummeling Charge is PFS legal.

Liberty's Edge

I haven't checked to see if anyone is running afoul of this, but note that unarmed strikes and natural weapon attacks are not in the same fighter group for Weapon Training purposes.

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