Is it just me, or does Create Pit from the APG just seem like a fantastic little spell? I might just rank it up there with Glitterdust and Invisibility. Really!
You’ve got a decent AOE spell for the level that effectively takes the enemy out of combat for several rounds (assuming they don’t fly). In addition, you can dump more bad guys into the pit with some bull-rushing pals. They have to fly or climb out of the pit, unlike Web or Glitterdust where they get subsequent saves each round. Not bad for a second level spell. But there’s more!
If there are critters down there when you’re done with those on top you can calmly stand up above and rain missile weapons down on them until they’re toast or the spell ends. How great is that?
Also, it can be a makeshift barrier spell in tight quarters, like a 10 ft. wide corridor. Now the enemy has to jump the gap to get to you. It isn’t a hard jump mind you (at least until I toss Grease up in front of it), but it’s still a jump.
That seems to me like a wonderful second level spell. My infernal sorcerer plans on using this regularly.
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I agree it's an absolutely wonderful spell, but it is a little more limited than your post would seem to indicate you believe. Specifically, don't forget the pit has sloped edges, so anybody adjacent the pit has to make a reflex save (and the +2 to that save isn't spectacular) or fall in. The spell specifically refers to the "sloped edges" around it.
Because of this, bull rushing has problems (if you need to enter the bad guy's space). It's also likely that once you put more than one person in the pit, they're going to work cooperatively to help get each other out of the pit. It's depth is also a hindrance. Because you can't get up next to the pit, you don't have line of sight down to the people in the pit (so no casting or raining down arrows unless you're flying over it). Even AoE spells have trouble as it's also deep enough that a fireball placed at the top of the pit (this is especially true for spiked pit) won't actually reach down to the bottom.
I've used the spell with extremely successful results three times now in PFS play. In fact one of the times had the GM literally throwing up his hands and saying "I can't fight you". So yes it's an awesome and powerful spell, just remember its limitations.
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Is it just me, or does Create Pit from the APG just seem like a fantastic little spell?
And since there are improvements on it, you could make an entire caster theme around it. A friend of mine suggested being a "pittomancer" whose philosophy revolves around finding the empty spaces between all things and exploiting them. XD
Jeremy Puckett
Check out hungry pit, acid pit and spiked pit. Ouch! It's a shame the theme doesn't continue up every spell level.
Combine those with, say, Pain Strike and/or Burning Gaze. That's a lot of damage to go along with battlefield control!
Check out hungry pit, acid pit and spiked pit. Ouch! It's a shame the theme doesn't continue up every spell level.
Combine those with, say, Pain Strike and/or Burning Gaze. That's a lot of damage to go along with battlefield control!
Those are nice, but I have to say the basic 2nd level spell looks like the best bang for the buck.
I like to cover my pit with balls of lightning and other harmful obstacles. That way they can't really climb out.
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Those are nice, but I have to say the basic 2nd level spell looks like the best bang for the buck.
I prefer spiked pit.
It doesn't have a maximum depth of only 30 feet (climbable by anybody not in heavy armor in one round), and while the DC is reduced by ten, the 1d6 damage every time somebody tries to climb out is a nice addition. Plus out of the box it's dealing 4d6 damage to anybody who falls in, gain one level and that's up to 5d6.
Best combo is create pit and wall of iron. Let the wall fall over the opening. Listen to muffled screams of terror when the pit rises at the end of its duration.
Best combo is create pit and wall of iron. Let the wall fall over the opening. Listen to muffled screams of terror when the pit rises at the end of its duration.
Then use your Adamantium blade to cut little stars, squares, and triangles for a Play-doh flashback.
Best combo is create pit and wall of iron. Let the wall fall over the opening. Listen to muffled screams of terror when the pit rises at the end of its duration.Then use your Adamantium blade to cut little stars, squares, and triangles for a Play-doh flashback.
ROFL, that is Dogbert evil.
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I find it odd that there's no mention in the spell's description of what happens to those creatures who succeed at the initial reflex saving throw to avoid falling into the pit. Supposedly they leap clear, but to where? How is it decided where they end up? And if they end up adjacent to the pit, doesn't that mean that they'd end up on the sloped edge and be forced to make the second Reflex save at +2 right away?
Did I miss an errata?
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I find it odd that there's no mention in the spell's description of what happens to those creatures who succeed at the initial reflex saving throw to avoid falling into the pit. Supposedly they leap clear, but to where? How is it decided where they end up? And if they end up adjacent to the pit, doesn't that mean that they'd end up on the sloped edge and be forced to make the second Reflex save at +2 right away?
Did I miss an errata?
I haven't seen an errata on this one, but you are correct, there are no specifics.
As a GM I think I'd allow the creature being pitted to make a choice as to which empty adjacent space they'd like to move, and then forgo the double-jeopardy saving throw as long as they moved their next turn.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I find it odd that there's no mention in the spell's description of what happens to those creatures who succeed at the initial reflex saving throw to avoid falling into the pit. Supposedly they leap clear, but to where? How is it decided where they end up? And if they end up adjacent to the pit, doesn't that mean that they'd end up on the sloped edge and be forced to make the second Reflex save at +2 right away?
Did I miss an errata?
I haven't seen an errata on this one, but you are correct, there are no specifics.
As a GM I think I'd allow the creature being pitted to make a choice as to which empty adjacent space they'd like to move, and then forgo the double-jeopardy saving throw as long as they moved their next turn.
That's how I'd handle it also. However, what about when you cast it in a 10x10 room, and the only exit is occipied by another creature?
Because you can't get up next to the pit, you don't have line of sight down to the people in the pit (so no casting or raining down arrows unless you're flying over it).
It seems that it'd depend on the grade of the sloped edges. Depending on the angles involved, it seems possible that someone standing adjacent to the sloped edge might be able to target someone at the bottom if the slope is severe enough; at least those on the far side of the pit. This point would also benefit from additional errata.
That's how I'd handle it also. However, what about when you cast it in a 10x10 room, and the only exit is occipied by another creature?
The only possibilities I can imagine is you end up clinging to the wall, save vs gravity and simply remain hovering over the pit or you leap into another dimension altogether; preferably one with friendlier people who aren't casting nasty spells at you.
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Do clouds generated by spells sink?Acid pit + Cloudkill
Just let that evil fun settle down into the nice pit that you just created.
Cloudkill specifies that it does:
The PRD on Cloudkill[/url]]
Because the vapors are heavier than air, they sink to the lowest level of the land, even pouring down den or sinkhole openings. It cannot penetrate liquids, nor can it be cast underwater.
So they have the choice or hiding under the acid or dealing with the cloudkill.
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Do clouds generated by spells sink?Acid pit + Cloudkill
Just let that evil fun settle down into the nice pit that you just created.
Cloudkill specifies that it does:
So they have the choice or hiding under the acid or dealing with the cloudkill.The PRD on Cloudkill[/url]]
Because the vapors are heavier than air, they sink to the lowest level of the land, even pouring down den or sinkhole openings. It cannot penetrate liquids, nor can it be cast underwater.
Thanks. I was looking at the magic section for general cloud effects instead of the spell description.
That is a nice combo.
I'm surprised on how nobody has mentioned it combos pretty well with hidraulic push/torrent
I've been looking at that combo, and posted a question about it in rules: (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinder RPG/rules/hydraulicPushQuestion)
Both spells are a bit vague. The hydraulic push says it knocks the target over in the text, which I believe is wrong. It also doesn't address size, while Hydraulic Torrent does. Create Pit doesn't address the result of a successful reflex save on the initial casting. Some clarification is necessary in both cases.
You need a metamagic feat-Aquatic spell. Fire spells create boiling water and cloud spells create polluted or cloudy water. Costs 1 spell level.
PPA=Pending Pathfinder Approval.
Fire spells already create boiling water and I see very few cloud spells that say they don't work under water.
Hand spells + pit spells =
"cleaning up your room"
So let me ask this. If you make a 10 by 10 pit and center it between 2 large monsters that are both half in pit squares and half in the slope squares what is the required initial first save? Is it save or fall in the pit or only a save if they end their round on the sloped side? Or if a large, huge (so on and so forth) monster has ended its turn half on the slope and half on level ground does it require a save or fall into the pit as well? If the creature is 4 legged or more and normally gets bonuses to trip attmepts (knocking them down)do they ge bonuses verse the slope? In short there are a lot of what ifs to this spell. I'd love to hear opinions on what proper proto call is on some of these events as they did happen in one of our recent gamming session.
Holy Necro batman!
Hey, that's my line!
Well I am a Ninja Kitteh!!!!
Hey I just want to say, let's all keep talking about pits. I love this line of spells. Obviously it has some limitations, but in terms of battlefield control it is one of the finest sets of spell. I am playing a conjuration wizard, and pits are essentially his signature. Never fails. Great for divide and conquer, forcing enemies to redirect attacks, take AoO, and general provide really bad positioning all around. You need to be careful with it, but it can be used very effectively.
That said, the post that necro'd this thread raises a persistent question which arises at our table. nothing bigger than large can fall in, but it's perfectly reasonable to think a huge creature could stumble or get it's leg stuck in the pit. I don't believe there's a by the rules was to adjudicate a pit falling between two large creatures, but would very interested in hearing thoughts in this regard.
In sum, I enjoy the pits.
I love the later pit spells xD. A pit of acid is always a crowd pleaser! Oh and a a chomping pit? AWESOME!!! Not the best spells those later ones... but they sure LOOK cool... Combine the nomming pit with black tentacles for further fun xD
Any flying summon can go down and attack creatures in the pit.
A flying animal can be taught to Bombard as a trick. Should be even simpler when the creature is stuck in a pit.
I've wondered about using Grease in combination with the pit. Still not sure if I would want to use it just before the pit or just after. It would surprise the character trying to just jump across the 10' pit.
I have been looking forward to getting this spell since I first read it. All sorts of fun to be had with it.
The pits made by the spells are dimensional space. You don't make an actual pit in the ground, so you can't use it for excavating or landscape decoration.
From my reading of the spell, you can't place it in a 10ft hallway. The sloped edges are part of the pit, and must be placed on a valid surface. This makes the spell a little tricky in dungeons.
I like to combo it with Aqueous Orb and Wall of Ice personally.
I've used the pit spells to great effect.
Fantastic when comboo'd with any 'cloud' type spells. It billows right down into the pit, and bwahahah! Suffer fools! SUFFER!
Solid Fog works to keep them in.
The higher level spells are much more efficient and more bang for the buck than the second level, actually. Deeper pits, with bonus effects!
Sirocco also works to keep them in the pit.
Other pit type spell: Rift of Ruin, from Book of the Damned 2, demon edition!
I think [url=http://www.archivesofnethys.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Maw%20of%20Chaos]Maw of Chaos[url/] fits the theme of pit spells, despite not actually being a pit... It's fun in any case.
Pits are definitely fun... But useless against fliers ;(... Had a meanie of a GM throw nothing but fliers at us for the rest of the game after I trounced some gobinloid stronghold using effective tactics, positioning, and pits/AOE control (of the non-dpr kind).... Fortunately was able to re-train the spells out and then made the GM cry with anti-flier spells. Never underestimate a sorcerer :) (though he did start throwing over-sized land creatures at us instead of fliers... and wouldn't let me retrain xD)
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The pits made by the spells are dimensional space. You don't make an actual pit in the ground, so you can't use it for excavating or landscape decoration.
No, but with creative placement, you can still use it to bypass doors or walls. Have the pit go under the door, so you can climb down the pit on one side of the door, and climb out of the pit on the other.