I would be up for continuing with Arianwyn; he makes me chuckle with glee.
I would be up for continuing with Arianwyn; he makes me chuckle with glee.
And Vel needs someone to irritate her . . .
I agree with the enhanced experience. Ten encounters is a terribly long time in pbp.
"Irritate? You wound me sorely to my heart, sweet lady Vel. To see such beauty turn to disregard is enough to crack the heart of a golem!"
I'm fine with however you choose to do XP.
I don't really know if the Mark ability was tacked on, or worked on less. But I don't feel that it is so weak. It basically forces Anarak's opponents to just stand there and trade blows. Shifting or attacking another gives him an OA with lots of bonuses. If they don't shift or attack another, it may seem weak, but it protects other party members a great deal from attacks and allows for easy sneak attacks. I imagine the marking would be much more effective in a group that included a Rogue or Ranger...
Also consider the impact on a non-skirmishing opponent.
I generally prefer to stick to rules, but in this case, I completely agree with the XP change. Whether you do it by doubling combat XP or awarding more for story doesn't really matter to me.
I'm really enjoying playing the game and learning the 4th Edition rules but, truthfully, I feel like I need a bit of a break from PbP in general, and the daily posting requirements. I'm going to be away on vacation for three weeks in November, so that might be a good time to write Anarak out of the plot, at least temporarily. If you want to leave for the possibility of him coming back at some point, that would be cool, but I'm also completely fine if you decide to restrict the game to the more dedicated core group.
I'm leaving on November 5th, but Anarak can leave a bit earlier or later depending on what's convenient (I can continue for a short time while on vacation if that's needed to wrap things up).
Let's see how the timing works out for you Jonventus, and make a decision then. Thank you for the advance warning and I'm so glad you're enjoying the experience.
I don't really know if the Mark ability was tacked on, or worked on less. But I don't feel that it is so weak. It basically forces Anarak's opponents to just stand there and trade blows. Shifting or attacking another gives him an OA with lots of bonuses. If they don't shift or attack another, it may seem weak, but it protects other party members a great deal from attacks and allows for easy sneak attacks. I imagine the marking would be much more effective in a group that included a Rogue or Ranger...
Also consider the impact on a non-skirmishing opponent.
That's just it - it doesn't force them to stand there. The Paladin mark is much more likely to get that effect, since, if you ignore it you take damage. Guaranteed. With the fighter, they get an OA. Admitted, with a bonus, but it's still an attack, and a basic one at that. Now, the mark has a benefit in that it makes it less likely to hit the other person, but the effectiveness of the fighter's ability totally depends on the DM. Does the DM make the monsters stand there and go for the fighter or not? If so, Mark's decent. If not, or if the enemy group is not heavily melee, Mark drops off in power, which can't be said for any of the other core classes signature abilities. I'm not saying it's bad - I'm saying compared to the other core classes main abilities (or swordmage, or barbarian), it feels below average.
Whether they stand there and slug it out depends on the monsters as well. I try to run my bad guys reasonably credibly (given that it's a fantasy game in the first place). Zombies are braindead as well as undead, so they just keep going in the same direction until they get to something or someone they can't pass. The kobolds you've been dealing with will stick around as long as there is someone to make them do that, otherwise, if they're losing, they will run. The duergar have been fanatics, and while they'll do their darndest to use any sneaky tricks they have, will ultimately stand their ground.
I'd have to agree that at first level, the fighter's mark is not as effective or attractive a tool as the paladin's mark. All that ongoing collateral damage from Divine Challenge can be lethal. My suspicion is that Martial Power will add a good deal to the fighter's armoury of tricks and potential tactics.
I definitely agree about the xp thing and I really would like to continue with gobi, I've just been spending some time kind of pre-planning an idea up to level 11 on how I would like to see him end up and it's got me excited to keep him going and evolving.
That's just it - it doesn't force them to stand there. The Paladin mark is much more likely to get that effect, since, if you ignore it you take damage. Guaranteed. With the fighter, they get an OA. Admitted, with a bonus, but it's still an attack, and a basic one at that. Now, the mark has a benefit in that it makes it less likely to hit the other person, but the effectiveness of the fighter's ability totally depends on the DM. Does the DM make the monsters stand there and go for the fighter or not? If so, Mark's decent. If not, or if the enemy group is not heavily melee, Mark drops off in power, which can't be said for any of the other core classes signature abilities. I'm not saying it's bad - I'm saying compared to the other core classes main abilities (or swordmage, or barbarian), it feels below average.
I can see that. The warlord's powers are also much more effective with a skirmishing party, I would think. So the Fighter is not alone in that regard. But it does feel like the Fighter was always good at fighting, and now everyone else is as well.
I'm planning to take some feats that enhance Anarak's mark bonuses (my Level 1 feat gives me +3 damage). The paladin's mark does seem more likely to convince a single foe to stay and fight, while most non-fanatical opponents will want to just get away from the Fighter as quick as possible. One advantage of the Fighter mark is the ability to mark multiple foes, using Cleave, Passing Attack, or some other area power (breath weapon!). The paladin is more of a duelist and doesn't really have same ability to dominate a group battle.
Still, I'm not really sold on marking. There are so many conditions and modifiers to remember already. Combat really feels like a complex miniatures battle, and not so much like an rpg. I think I've figured out all of Anarak's stuff, but it took me awhile. And I have no idea if other characters are adding up their modifiers correctly. It seems like way too much information for the DM to be constantly aware of. With flanking, OA bonuses, Kia's various effects, Vel's bless, charging, two-handed talent, dragonborn fury, and my feat, Anarak rarely has the same combat bonuses two turns in a row.
When I DM I now trust that the players are adding their boni correctly. I only query if it seems ridiculously high or low. Experience reminds them to use their marks, magic items etc. I run the monsters, and trust the players to run their characters.
It is complex certainly. I have pages of notebooks strewn with bonuses, minuses, pluses, effects and so on and as you all know, have not always got it right or even close.
I'd say that the GM has to trust the players to look after their own effects (being prepared to step in when something looks wrong or if someone wants clarification). The monsters also have sets of running effects, powers and bonuses and that adds to the complexity. That said, I have found running a pbp under 4E a lot simpler than I expected. Yes, it's complex and there are a ton of things to remember (or try to remember), but the basic mechanics of how monsters work take a lot of the grind out of it. The options are there on the page and those options are good, flexible and appropriate to the monsters.
One of the aspects of 4E I really like are the tactical options available to the group (which in my mind includes the monsters). They (and the players) can adapt.
Wizard slings a scorching burst? Smart opponents have to choose between staying close and using any flanking or ally bonuses they get or spreading out to make it harder for area affects to smash them. Fighters and paladins gang up and mark everyone in sight? Opposition is immediately having to make choices about which type of damage they're prepared to take in order to minimise the marking. Minions only have 1hp and usually a low AC, but they can do a ton of damage and hang about for a while. Does the party need to concentrate on taking down the leader or wiping out the minons?
I like the choices that players and GMs have to make on a round by round basis. It keeps things fresh for me.
I'm not sure I could run 3.5 again, that's for sure.
I'm up for carrying on by the way. I'd like to see how Kia gets on as she goes up a level.
I haven't looked at 4E from a DMing point of view. Does the streamlining of enemies extend to human NPCs? I never found it hard to roll up or run a troll in combat, but a 12th-level wizard was a different story in 3.5...
I haven't looked at 4E from a DMing point of view. Does the streamlining of enemies extend to human NPCs? I never found it hard to roll up or run a troll in combat, but a 12th-level wizard was a different story in 3.5...
It does. I have a batch of human NPCs in Scepter Tower who are turning out very interesting (to me anyway). They don't come fully statted out, but with enough flesh on the bones to make for interesting choices about how to use them. One encounter power, a couple of at wills and class/race powers. In the case of the eladrin wizard, his encounter power was a thing I'd never seen before and isn't available to pcs.
Updated: Toughness, Feather Fall, and Shield.
Whiteclaw's all leveled up. Wasn't overly impressed with any of the utility powers, but, hopefully, there will be something that wow's me in Martial Powers :). For the moment, I took No Opening, as the ability to negate combat advantage seemed to be the best choice.
For my feat I took Fast Runner, to make my move 9! when running or charging, though I did debate Gnoll Tracker from the Dragon Article, and, at the moment, it's my target feat at level 4. But, that 9 speed when engagaging, or when crossing the battlefield to try and save someone really caught my eye.
Jeepers. Whiteclaw pounding across the battlefield for 9 squares would scare me witless, never mind anything you're likely to meet on Pharoe. Word will get around, kobolds will flee at the sight of the seven foot tall white monster bearing down on them.
As a general note, once Martial Powers comes out, I will be happy for you to swap out powers for more appealing ones. Same applies to Gobi, Anarak and Kia, for whom this might also be relevant.
Vel's choices seem sensible and in keeping as well. Shield is almost the only way to go for a squishy wizard.
Madam DM, am I to be included in this fest of levelling up? Or must I languish in the bowels of 1st level, never to know the light of 2nd? I have tarried overlong- [snip]
Or to translate - am I assumed to have the same XP total as the rest or shall I stick with my lower one?
:D
Madam DM, am I to be included in this fest of levelling up? Or must I languish in the bowels of 1st level, never to know the light of 2nd? I have tarried overlong- [snip]
Or to translate - am I assumed to have the same XP total as the rest or shall I stick with my lower one?
:D
Level up please. I follow Pat's excellent example in this as many other things and you all have the same amount of XP regardless of entry point into the game.
And so, I have levelled up, with Infernal Resilience ("Arioch, aid me in my time of need!") and Blade Initiate ("Stormbringer, I have need of thee!")
Vel, Whiteclaw and Arianwyn are updated, Gobi is on the way. Anarak and Kia to get themselves sorted out. No pressure, just book-keeping.
I'm glad you all made it to level 2.
Vel, Whiteclaw and Arianwyn are updated, Gobi is on the way. Anarak and Kia to get themselves sorted out. No pressure, just book-keeping.
I'm glad you all made it to level 2.
I'm upped! I took Dragonborn Frenzy as my feat, and Unstoppable as my utility power. I think temp hp will come in handy as I can "lock-in" my bloodied state without at too great of a risk.
What is our exact XP total so I can record it? I think you posted it, but I can't remember.
Kia is now level-2-ised. Don't forget to update all those to-hit pre-rolls as well.
She's taken Knight's Move so that she can help people get out of (or into) trouble more easily and the toughness feat so she doesn't feel so squishy.
You were on 890 pre-ghoul, so with the 134 you got for them, you're all on 1024 XP.
As soon as Kia gets levelled up, we'll move right along. Thanks for getting all this sorted. I'm interested to see what difference being level 2 makes to you all.
You were on 890 pre-ghoul, so with the 134 you got for them, you're all on 1024 XP.
As soon as Kia gets levelled up, we'll move right along. Thanks for getting all this sorted. I'm interested to see what difference being level 2 makes to you all.
Ah, I made it 1052, but I will bow to your better bookkeeping.
Excellent.
Consider yourselves a level 2 party and onward to adventure.
I've just posted in game that I'm aware that Gobi isn't entirely up to speed. Please continue to update yourself in the background and if it looks like becoming an issue, we'll pause while you catch up.
Hi Rev and everyone,
First, let me say thanks for keeping the door open for me to return to the game. I'm happy to say that balance seems to be returning in some fashion to my life (I still work more than I should, but things are getting better). I've even managed to start doing a little bit of gaming again, both on these boards and in real life. That having been said, I regret that Baldrech will stay indefinitely in the wilderness of Pharoe. I have resumed play in the three PbPs on these boards to which I had committed before joining this one (and in which I had invested more time), but I think getting back into this fourth one is just a bit much... especially since my enthusiasm for learning the rules of 4e has waned.
I had fun while I was part of the group, and Rosey and crew, I thought you were fabulous DM/players.
I'm sorry if I've caused any disappointment, and wish you all the best with the game. Thanks again for your understanding, and for the opportunity...
Cheers!
Good to hear from you Twiceborn and especially to know that things are getting back on track for you.
May I ask a favour of you? I have Baldrech stashed in my profile as an NPC and wondered if you'd allow me to keep him there and possibly use him if the need arose.
This game is nearing completition, and when it does, some of this party are interested in going on further adventures. From what you've said, it doesn't sound as if 4E is your bag, but Baldrech might come in amazingly handy. Of course, if you would like a slot when the next game goes up, you would be more than welcome, either with Baldrech or another character.
Thank you as well for the kind words. I'm enjoying myself hugely GMing :D
Good to hear from you Twiceborn and especially to know that things are getting back on track for you.
May I ask a favour of you? I have Baldrech stashed in my profile as an NPC and wondered if you'd allow me to keep him there and possibly use him if the need arose.
This game is nearing completition, and when it does, some of this party are interested in going on further adventures. From what you've said, it doesn't sound as if 4E is your bag, but Baldrech might come in amazingly handy. Of course, if you would like a slot when the next game goes up, you would be more than welcome, either with Baldrech or another character.
Thank you as well for the kind words. I'm enjoying myself hugely GMing :D
By all means, please feel free to make use of Baldrech as an NPC (I think I should take that as a compliment, but...??? ;-).
Cheers!
Sorry to threadjack, I have questions for two of the players.
Amelia -
Tieren -
Hi Ghettowedge - just to let you know that Tieren's been having computer problems and hasn't posted in a couple of weeks. I've been running his pc for him.
So brave adventurers, the thing unheard of is coming to pass. Assuming you don't decide to do something very different, you are about to finish a module in pbp format. I probably shouldn't write that in case we end up jinxing ourselves.
Also the words "assume" and "adventurers" should never really appear in the same sentence. Still, you are good and close to the end.
Ack, no dot!
I, for one, am all for the continuing adventures of the crew, if our GM is up for it. Though it might take some doing to get Vel and Arianwyn to work together again!
Your GM is very willing to adventure onwards with any who would like to find further mayhem.
Do any of you have a preference? My thought is that you don't seem like a party ideally suited to urban politics. Whiteclaw might cause comment for one thing.
Arianwyn is more than willing to continue, in any environment. In actual fact, scenarios involving social skills will be his forte.
He will work with Vel again, he enjoys baiting her and finds her nice to look at. :D
Squabblemongers Vel and Arianwyn are go then. Kia has indicated interest as has Whiteclaw (possibly not in her present form). Anarak is likely to be departing I believe and although Gobi expressed interest, he's been away from the boards for a while.
Party of 4 is just fine, but it might not be a horrible idea to advertise for a couple more nutbars to join up. I'll have a rootle and see what leaps out at me. *Sauntering off thinking evil GMing thoughts*
Arianwyn is more than willing to continue, in any environment. In actual fact, scenarios involving social skills will be his forte.
He will work with Vel again, he enjoys baiting her and finds her nice to look at. :D
Yes, her lack of Charisma is her personality, not her appearance!
Rev, I like to roll dice fairly often, and I'm not much better than Vel at social adventuring. Within that . . .
How would you chaps fancy trying one of the Pathfinder adventure paths? I know Fabes has played Burnt Offerings more times than he's had hot dinners, Thrug has DMed it and Pat has dabbled in CotCT, so you might all feel that the ground is too well trodden. There is Second Darkness as well of course. Thoughts?
I'm happy to put in the work if you'd like to take that route.
I've heard that Second Darkness is a bit weird in its set-up insofar as the transition between each adventure is a bit unclear in terms of PC motivation.
How would you chaps fancy trying one of the Pathfinder adventure paths? I know Fabes has played Burnt Offerings more times than he's had hot dinners, Thrug has DMed it and Pat has dabbled in CotCT, so you might all feel that the ground is too well trodden. There is Second Darkness as well of course. Thoughts?
I'm happy to put in the work if you'd like to take that route.
I'm also quite experienced with both Burnt Offerings and Edge of Anarchy, and several of the subsequent adventures, though not at all with Second Darkness. Honestly, after giving them solid tries, I'm not that enamored of the AP experience. Too 'channeled.'
Now that may matter less with PBP, as the GM has a lot more time to adjust to what the PCs are doing (one of the great things about PBP), but I'd still feel reluctant to go completely off the rails for fear of making the later adventures nonsensical. If you want to convert a Paizo adventure (most of which are excellent, of course), I'd rather it be a module than an AP.
Specific notes: Runelords -- I've run all the way through #4, and read the whole thing, so would rather have something with more surprises. Crimson Throne -- I've run #1 and played up to the beginning of #3, and am specifically not fond of the "set pieces" in that one.
Non-Paizo:
Razor Coast (sinisteradventures.com) might be promising for a couple levels up from now, but with Logue having a new job I'm not sure when it will be coming (current expectation appears to be PDF by Christmas, print soon after).
Thispage has a list of 3rd party 4E products, but only a handful of adventures available now, and most of them from Goodman (not that that's a bad thing).
There are, of course, a number of adventures in Dungeon for different levels, none of which I've read, but which would likely take more advantage of the recently published Wizards material.
All that said, I'd almost certainly want to play anything Rosey's likely to run.
I'm reading Second Darkness and yes, there are (or could be) issues with motivation. It's also the case that large chunks of the first part do not lend themselves readily to pbp - or at least not pbp as I'd like to run it. So with that and the other strictures expressed, I shall turn my mind elsewhere. It just seemed worth putting the question in case anyone had a burning desire to do any of the big APs in 4E.
Personally, I'm fairly enamoured of running individual adventures. The timescale makes it slightly more likely the thing may finish and it's a forgiving format. If people want to drop out and/or come back in, it's usually possible without too much trauma. I'll have a another rummmage. I'll go with something I think will be fun to run and play.
Thanks for the vote of confidence Pat - much appreciated.
There's really not much out there for 4E yet other than Wizards and Goodman. A lot of "early 2009" releases, but this is not a good climate for small businesses with little or no product out.
I concur with running a single adventure - it's achievable and we thus can create our own story as well.
Righty ho. Single adventure it is. Likely Goodman as I picked up a few pdfs in their sale. Goodman with added tweakery.
Savage Blight - the sequel to Rune Stones now has a discussion thread of its very own. Please head over and fiddle in anticipation.
Amelia - do you want to stick with Whiteclaw or re-roll? Either is fine, but if you're changing pcs, I have an idea for Whiteclaw's future. Can you let me know?
Folks. You did it. An pbp adventure is completed. Admittedly a very short one, but still an achievement. CONGRATULATIONS!